Only the ones with good range and run speed can make it work well, I imagine.
-
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Charizard Tactical Discussion
- Thread starter TheReflexWonder
- Start date
T-block
B2B TST
just sayin'... maybe you should read what i post more =)
CoonTail
Smash Lord
T-Block I remembered you posting about this and I have always loved this just because I think the turn around animation is something I experimented with for a while.
Guys can we manage to cancel the turn around animation on the ledge? I was wondering because one of my favorite little tricks with Zard is edge guarding with Zard by running to the ledge and starting Zard's shellshift, then use run off f-air. It catches so many people off guard and since f-air is an outstanding gimp tool this works out real well.
Guys can we manage to cancel the turn around animation on the ledge? I was wondering because one of my favorite little tricks with Zard is edge guarding with Zard by running to the ledge and starting Zard's shellshift, then use run off f-air. It catches so many people off guard and since f-air is an outstanding gimp tool this works out real well.
MaTA
Smash Ace
Very nice vid Tblock, putting that up to good use! I don't think I've ever really done that much. Ill have to play around with it some 
Gadiel_VaStar
Smash Champion
Hey Reflex, how much does your psychology major help you out w/ Brawl? Also, what would you say to one really trying to learn this game and to one working towards a higher level of skill? How should one study this game? What do you recommend? Anything else?
Realistically, the only real knowledge from it that I can say helps me with is understanding how much various thought processes, errors, and frustrations can affect some people's play, for better or for worse. Telling yourself "I've done this before; I can do it again," or "Man, I was -stupid,-" can really be the difference between coming back from a stock deficit and falling apart, for example.
As far as getting to a higher level at this game, I highly recommend making sure you know as much basic knowledge as possible, especially since the only limit in that is how much time you're willing to spend, since you're constantly "getting better" when you do it. General frame data seems small, but can help you get past a person's walls or be able to punish things that seemed safe before. Perfecting your DI comes mostly from experience, but surviving what would have otherwise KO'd you can keep you in the game long enough to deal a lot more damage before you go for good. Knowing what each character and stage is capable of will prevent you from getting slammed by something you've never seen before. Things like that.
Another important thing is to maximize efficiency with all of your moves. That sounds like a weird and obvious statement, but, when you look back at old videos after getting better, you wonder why you weren't doing better tactics, or wonder why you thought something would be a good idea. Make sure that you're throwing out attacks with a purpose in mind, or using your mid-air jump in the intention of making yourself safer. When you're not doing anything, there is almost always something you can do to improve the situation, whether it's movement to stay unpredictable, a spacing tool to tack on damage, or an all-or-nothing move to paralyze someone from defending. It's another thing that comes with experience, but, experiment!
MaTA
Smash Ace
Not sure if we really talked about this subject or not... But who do you think Charizard is best paired up with in doubles? I'll sometimes team with a lucas main but its more of a gimmick. Is there an ideal overall best person to team with?
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Double PT is really really ****. Seriously.
I have played it vs double MKs that are legit, Double PT is really good (I teamed with AD, we played a lot together, versus each other, and watched each others matchs, so we played really well together at the end of our teaming period)
Lots of cool and gimmicky combos like Bulletseed > Bulletseed, or Bulletseed > Rocksmash or Bulletseed into UpAir (Ivy) or Up B (Ivy).
Waterguning Zard while Rocksmashing!!!!!!!!!!11
Watergunning Ivy while Bulletseeding..
Super cute.
Toooooooooooooooobbyyyy
I miss typh.
I have played it vs double MKs that are legit, Double PT is really good (I teamed with AD, we played a lot together, versus each other, and watched each others matchs, so we played really well together at the end of our teaming period)
Lots of cool and gimmicky combos like Bulletseed > Bulletseed, or Bulletseed > Rocksmash or Bulletseed into UpAir (Ivy) or Up B (Ivy).
Waterguning Zard while Rocksmashing!!!!!!!!!!11
Watergunning Ivy while Bulletseeding..
Super cute.
Toooooooooooooooobbyyyy
I miss typh.
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I actually love double PT teams too. I was playing teams friendlies at a smashfest a few weeks ago, and my Squirtle combined with one of IL's best player's Ivysaur was destroying a Marth/Zero Suit team I think it was.
We actually did a lot of Water Gunning while he used Bullet Seed. It's too powerful.
We actually did a lot of Water Gunning while he used Bullet Seed. It's too powerful.
MaTA
Smash Ace
Typh.... we must double PT, I need you!
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Hey I was laddering through AiB and U-Throw helped me to kill 2 times in a Bo3 at like 155% against a Pikachu (I had almost never killed with it before). Is it a viable killmove? Should we save it instead of DThrow/save both?
MaTA
Smash Ace
Pretty sure Ivys Uthrow is better than charizards. I still wouldn't save it for a kill move though, definitely get to the edge and use dthrow.
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I've gotten a few kills with Charizard's uthrow too. I think it's a viable kill move, depending on the stage.
Interesting option select against Meta Knight--
If you grab release him, you can Flamethrower immediately. His forward roll doesn't go far enough to get behind us, so our body pushes him back, and then the fire comes out. Since we lean back, his D-Smash doesn't hit us, and he isn't in a prime position to Shuttle Loop -> Glide Attack us out of it, assuming our Flamethrower isn't running on empty.
I think I might just do a thread on our grab-release options. Pokèmon Trainer appears to be a very good character in his options for that.
If you grab release him, you can Flamethrower immediately. His forward roll doesn't go far enough to get behind us, so our body pushes him back, and then the fire comes out. Since we lean back, his D-Smash doesn't hit us, and he isn't in a prime position to Shuttle Loop -> Glide Attack us out of it, assuming our Flamethrower isn't running on empty.
I think I might just do a thread on our grab-release options. Pokèmon Trainer appears to be a very good character in his options for that.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
I think this could be a good option. Thank you for sharing this.
Not sure how quickly or how far Bowser's Flame Breath moves backward.
Still, why would you bother doing that for Bowser when he gets guaranteed follow-ups that do significantly more damage?
Still, why would you bother doing that for Bowser when he gets guaranteed follow-ups that do significantly more damage?
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Yeah Bowser Grab Release game soo good. Much better options anyways.
Bowser is mad fun BTW.
Bowser is mad fun BTW.
He has a lot better options but a lot aren't safe if you don't buffer them correctly (and really the only very easy ones are jab and dtilt). But really at top level play you should be buffering follow ups perfectly anyway.
It might be helpful for eating an MK's shield. But really, a good MK who knows the MU probably won't shield often out of either character's grab release because shield is easily punished of out GR and MK is fast enough to punish botched follow ups or mispredictions with attacks.
It might be helpful for eating an MK's shield. But really, a good MK who knows the MU probably won't shield often out of either character's grab release because shield is easily punished of out GR and MK is fast enough to punish botched follow ups or mispredictions with attacks.
I need a brush-up on the DK vs. Charizard MU. I know we recently had the starter discussion however I feel like I'm missing something especially after this past weekend's tournament. What would be the best way to play against a DK?
In my match, I was constantly baired and tilted. When I tried to use flamethrower, it was easily avoided, and I tried everything I could to land it. Maybe I was just off for that game, but when I started as Charizard, I wasn't able to do much compared to my Ivysaur as I'm sure most of you have already read about that by now. One thing I did manage to get right was punishing his recovery with flamethrower. Other than that, I wasn't able to do much against DK. He just became a free stock. =/
In my match, I was constantly baired and tilted. When I tried to use flamethrower, it was easily avoided, and I tried everything I could to land it. Maybe I was just off for that game, but when I started as Charizard, I wasn't able to do much compared to my Ivysaur as I'm sure most of you have already read about that by now. One thing I did manage to get right was punishing his recovery with flamethrower. Other than that, I wasn't able to do much against DK. He just became a free stock. =/
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Random things with Charizard!
I'll talk about very small things. It'll be things that could be useful imo. It's either new things, things that I find interesting or old things that I've forgotten because I didn't use it myself and didn't see on any match...
You'll probably find it's almost useless, but we're PT players so every little thing helps.
Ledge :
Landing on the stage from the ledge can be very difficult at times so here's a list of some options you have from the ledge.
If you drop from the ledge and almost immediatly use UpB so you can regrab the ledge asap, a hitbox will come out on the ground, it can catch people off-guard. I haven't done further testings so I'm not sure if you can make this hitbox appear otherwise.
Be careful, if you grabbed the ledge without using UpB, you don't want to do this since it'll activate your RCO lag.
Ledgejump + D-air can surprise your opponent.
Ledgejump + wavebounced RS will make you land on the platform of SV.
Ledgejump + platform cancel / platform cancel drop through on SV.
Ledgehop + N-air is lagless. You can then buffer something like a grab.
Ledgehop + F-air to clear the edge of the stage and grab the ledge again.
Ledgehop + wavebounced FT to land on the stage.
Ledgedrop + jump away + jump towards + FT to land on the stage is a good alternative.
Ledgedrop + jump away and have your back facing the stage + Bair + ledgegrab/land with no lag on the stage (if you activated the RCO lag, you may want to delay your B-air so you can cancel the RCO).
Ledgehop + hold jump + glide attack is also a way to go back to the stage.
Once you have held the jump button, you can still move a lot before gliding if you press a direction. If you feel pressured, you can hold away and glide under the stage and grab the other ledge to disturb your opponent.
Ledgehop + airdodge + buffer a quick move (shield/grab/RS/etc). Extremely common and very useful. Don't use it if you activated the RCO lag.
Make sure to use as much invincilibity frames as you can!
Mobility :
If you're grounded and use jump + C-stick up immediatly, you'll find yourself U-smashing... To avoid that, hold your control stick upwards (but just a bit) and press jump + A. Your U-air will be buffered.
Uses : Not many tbh (or at least I haven't found many). If you're on one of the middle platforms of BF, do a FH U-air this way and you'll land on the top platform without any lag.
I like doing an U-Throw + this at low %.
On a stage like YI, SH buffered U-air will probably autocancel if you land on a slope (on a lower level than where you jumped).
Infinite jump renewal : It's already known, but I feel like it could be used to improve our mobility. Any thoughts?
Shield platform drop-through : It can be very useful if you buffer it from something like an airdodge. It'll help you when you want to land.
Miscellaneous :
Have you ever heard about the z-axis? If not, watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=079p47Y42Og
DDD's spotdodge goes so far into the z-axis that he can avoid many attacks during the vulnerable part of his spotdodge.
You're right, we don't care about DDD.
Let's get to the good stuff now. Charizard's spotdodge also move him into the z-axis, although he doesn't go as far as DDD. But he also suffers from the fact that one of his foot is sticking out in front of him.
So if you spotdodge why facing backwards, you can actually avoid some attacks even when you're not invincible! :D
Now, even better! The z-axis stuff reminded me of a very interesting thread about Zard's N-air ( http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239484 ; you MUST read it if you haven't already read it ).
So, in a nutshell, when you do a N-air, Zard's tail (the sweetspot) will hit on his left, then on his right.
Always do a RAR before doing a SH N-air against , , and .
Moreover, as you saw, it can be a good way to split up the Climbers if they're on a platform. Or, you could just do a RAR'd delayed N-air so you can have teh fire. :D
But it's really unsafe so I don't think it's a good option. However, a well-spaced SH N-air below a platform could very well end Nana's life if you follow-up correctly.
Even more interesting! Since both moves go far into the z-axis, you can punish the vulnerable part of DDD's spotdodge with a sweetspotted N-air if you do it correctly...
Brb, editing with something interesting about N-air (again!).
Hitting through platforms with N-air :
You may know that Charizard's N-air can hit through platforms.
How to do it : the easiest way is to SH N-air + FF.
You can trick your opponent into thinking you'll do an autocancelled N-air and FF just before you land.
In many cases, this is the only way to land the sweetspot with a SH.
The sooner you FF, the lower you'll hit (I'm not sure about this but I think so).
FH + N-air will autocancel on BF's middle platforms and can actually hit some characters standing below the platform.
I felt it would be useful so I made a list!
I tested everything on BF on training mode. SHFF N-air is the laggy version of N-air when you can hit the opponent through a platform.
FH is the autocancelled one.
Yes, sometimes the timing/spacing can be very tricky.
The SHFF can sweetspot every character it hits, but the FH cannot.
Usually, you want your opponents to be a little behind you to hit with the sweetspot of N-air or simply just to hit them.
Character| SHFF N-air | Hits when crouching | FH N-air | Hits when crouching
| No | No | No | No
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | No | No | No
* | Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | Yes | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | Yes | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | Yes | Yes | No
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | Yes | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | Yes | Yes | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
| Yes | Yes | No | No
| Yes | No | Yes | No
|Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
** | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
| Yes | Yes | Yes | No
| Yes | No | No | No
| Yes | Yes | Yes | No
| Yes | Yes | Yes | No
*** | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
* : Due to the Z-axis mechanics, you can either :
- Hit 1 of the ICs with the N-air,
- Hit 1 of them with the sourspot and the other with the sweetspot,
- Hit both.
** : Reverse FH autocancelled N-air seems to be an amazing option in this MU... Since it'll hit with the tip of the hitbox, it'll shieldpoke if the shield is already a little reduced (remember, if you hit a character's hurtbox but not the shield, you'll shieldpoke). So, it can beat spotdodge/shield/crouch and any attack that won't hit you...
*** : You can also F-tilt (down).
**** : Poor Ganon... You can Jab, F-tilt, U-Smash, D-Smash, Fire Breath, Rock Smash and Fly. However, I do not recommand using the multi-hit moves since the other hitboxes often won't connect.
D-air is also a good way to hit through platforms, as it'll hit small or crouching characters.
I hope you learned something... I'll post similar things on the other Pokémon's tactical discussions.
EDIT : If you fastfall at the right time (i.e towards the end of the N-air, you can hit the tall characters but still autocancel your SH N-air (you'll get the hard landing lag, but it's a very small lag compared to N-air's landing lag).
I've been able to hit Falco but he's extremely difficult to hit while still autocancelling. Characters like Marth and Snake are much easier to hit. I think that this could have some good potential against some characters...
You can buffer a shield platform drop-through from this (I recommend that you fastfall with the C-Stick [down] because you'll need the control stick to do the shield platform drop-through). It's very difficult to do though. I'll try to master it. Doing this + a FT immediatly after dropping through the platform could combo at low %, and it could be a very good way to pressure shields from above.
I'll talk about very small things. It'll be things that could be useful imo. It's either new things, things that I find interesting or old things that I've forgotten because I didn't use it myself and didn't see on any match...
You'll probably find it's almost useless, but we're PT players so every little thing helps.
Ledge :
Landing on the stage from the ledge can be very difficult at times so here's a list of some options you have from the ledge.
If you drop from the ledge and almost immediatly use UpB so you can regrab the ledge asap, a hitbox will come out on the ground, it can catch people off-guard. I haven't done further testings so I'm not sure if you can make this hitbox appear otherwise.
Be careful, if you grabbed the ledge without using UpB, you don't want to do this since it'll activate your RCO lag.
Ledgejump + D-air can surprise your opponent.
Ledgejump + wavebounced RS will make you land on the platform of SV.
Ledgejump + platform cancel / platform cancel drop through on SV.
Ledgehop + N-air is lagless. You can then buffer something like a grab.
Ledgehop + F-air to clear the edge of the stage and grab the ledge again.
Ledgehop + wavebounced FT to land on the stage.
Ledgedrop + jump away + jump towards + FT to land on the stage is a good alternative.
Ledgedrop + jump away and have your back facing the stage + Bair + ledgegrab/land with no lag on the stage (if you activated the RCO lag, you may want to delay your B-air so you can cancel the RCO).
Ledgehop + hold jump + glide attack is also a way to go back to the stage.
Once you have held the jump button, you can still move a lot before gliding if you press a direction. If you feel pressured, you can hold away and glide under the stage and grab the other ledge to disturb your opponent.
Ledgehop + airdodge + buffer a quick move (shield/grab/RS/etc). Extremely common and very useful. Don't use it if you activated the RCO lag.
Make sure to use as much invincilibity frames as you can!
Mobility :
If you're grounded and use jump + C-stick up immediatly, you'll find yourself U-smashing... To avoid that, hold your control stick upwards (but just a bit) and press jump + A. Your U-air will be buffered.
Uses : Not many tbh (or at least I haven't found many). If you're on one of the middle platforms of BF, do a FH U-air this way and you'll land on the top platform without any lag.
I like doing an U-Throw + this at low %.
On a stage like YI, SH buffered U-air will probably autocancel if you land on a slope (on a lower level than where you jumped).
Infinite jump renewal : It's already known, but I feel like it could be used to improve our mobility. Any thoughts?
Shield platform drop-through : It can be very useful if you buffer it from something like an airdodge. It'll help you when you want to land.
Miscellaneous :
Have you ever heard about the z-axis? If not, watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=079p47Y42Og
DDD's spotdodge goes so far into the z-axis that he can avoid many attacks during the vulnerable part of his spotdodge.
You're right, we don't care about DDD.
Let's get to the good stuff now. Charizard's spotdodge also move him into the z-axis, although he doesn't go as far as DDD. But he also suffers from the fact that one of his foot is sticking out in front of him.
So if you spotdodge why facing backwards, you can actually avoid some attacks even when you're not invincible! :D
Now, even better! The z-axis stuff reminded me of a very interesting thread about Zard's N-air ( http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239484 ; you MUST read it if you haven't already read it ).
So, in a nutshell, when you do a N-air, Zard's tail (the sweetspot) will hit on his left, then on his right.
Always do a RAR before doing a SH N-air against
, , and .Moreover, as you saw, it can be a good way to split up the Climbers if they're on a platform. Or, you could just do a RAR'd delayed N-air so you can have teh fire. :D
But it's really unsafe so I don't think it's a good option. However, a well-spaced SH N-air below a platform could very well end Nana's life if you follow-up correctly.
Even more interesting! Since both moves go far into the z-axis, you can punish the vulnerable part of DDD's spotdodge with a sweetspotted N-air if you do it correctly...
Brb, editing with something interesting about N-air (again!).
Hitting through platforms with N-air :
You may know that Charizard's N-air can hit through platforms.
How to do it : the easiest way is to SH N-air + FF.
You can trick your opponent into thinking you'll do an autocancelled N-air and FF just before you land.
In many cases, this is the only way to land the sweetspot with a SH.
The sooner you FF, the lower you'll hit (I'm not sure about this but I think so).
FH + N-air will autocancel on BF's middle platforms and can actually hit some characters standing below the platform.
I felt it would be useful so I made a list!
I tested everything on BF on training mode. SHFF N-air is the laggy version of N-air when you can hit the opponent through a platform.
FH is the autocancelled one.
Yes, sometimes the timing/spacing can be very tricky.
The SHFF can sweetspot every character it hits, but the FH cannot.
Usually, you want your opponents to be a little behind you to hit with the sweetspot of N-air or simply just to hit them.
| No | No | No | No | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | No | No | No * | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | No | No | Yes | No | Yes | No |Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes ** | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | No *** | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes* : Due to the Z-axis mechanics, you can either :
- Hit 1 of the ICs with the N-air,
- Hit 1 of them with the sourspot and the other with the sweetspot,
- Hit both.
** : Reverse FH autocancelled N-air seems to be an amazing option in this MU... Since it'll hit with the tip of the hitbox, it'll shieldpoke if the shield is already a little reduced (remember, if you hit a character's hurtbox but not the shield, you'll shieldpoke). So, it can beat spotdodge/shield/crouch and any attack that won't hit you...
*** : You can also F-tilt (down).
**** : Poor Ganon... You can Jab, F-tilt, U-Smash, D-Smash, Fire Breath, Rock Smash and Fly. However, I do not recommand using the multi-hit moves since the other hitboxes often won't connect.
D-air is also a good way to hit through platforms, as it'll hit small or crouching characters.
I hope you learned something... I'll post similar things on the other Pokémon's tactical discussions.
EDIT : If you fastfall at the right time (i.e towards the end of the N-air, you can hit the tall characters but still autocancel your SH N-air (you'll get the hard landing lag, but it's a very small lag compared to N-air's landing lag).
I've been able to hit Falco but he's extremely difficult to hit while still autocancelling. Characters like Marth and Snake are much easier to hit. I think that this could have some good potential against some characters...
You can buffer a shield platform drop-through from this (I recommend that you fastfall with the C-Stick [down] because you'll need the control stick to do the shield platform drop-through). It's very difficult to do though. I'll try to master it. Doing this + a FT immediatly after dropping through the platform could combo at low %, and it could be a very good way to pressure shields from above.
I legitimately don't believe this. That would be a crazy-good find if it's a substantial difference.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Not MANY attacks, but I'm sure about MK's d-tilt, I think Squirtle's jab doesn't work as well.
I'm not sure if it's because of Zard keeping his foot in the air of because of the z-axis though.
When I pause the game during Zard's spotdodge (the vulnerable part of it), he really seems to go quite far into the z-axis. I'll do further testings.
As I said, I really don't know if it's his foot or the z-axis. A while ago, I tested and MK's spaced d-tilt (well, let's say semi-spaced LOL you just don't want him to hit his other foot) didn't hit. If it was only because of his foot, the d-tilt would have hit Zard's body... no?
I'll test tomorrow.
I'm not sure if it's because of Zard keeping his foot in the air of because of the z-axis though.
When I pause the game during Zard's spotdodge (the vulnerable part of it), he really seems to go quite far into the z-axis. I'll do further testings.
As I said, I really don't know if it's his foot or the z-axis. A while ago, I tested and MK's spaced d-tilt (well, let's say semi-spaced LOL you just don't want him to hit his other foot) didn't hit. If it was only because of his foot, the d-tilt would have hit Zard's body... no?
I'll test tomorrow.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
I seem to recall hearing about the Charizard spotdodge while turned away thing from a long time ago. So I think its true.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
I think I posted it a year ago but for some reason, I can't find it...
Edit :
D-Smash too? I didn't remember, that's interesting!
Edit 2 : I edited my original post.
Edit 3 : I still don't know about Zard's spotdodge... I can't play frame by frame so I don't know if Zard avoided MK's d-tilt because the hitbox wasn't active or something.
However, I tried shooting a Laser with Falco (he was at the edge of YI so he could shoot low lasers), I spotdodged it, and while zard was moving his foot towards the ground, I saw a glancing blow right under his foot (I even took a picture because it was fun lol) and he did NOT get hit by the laser (I was facing falco when I spotdodged so okay, the glancing blow might be caused by Zard keeping his foot in the air, but why didn't he get hit afterwards? Unless the glancing blow gives you invincibility frames or something, it's because of the z-axis.
But idk, I also had a glancing blow when my zard was still shining due to the invincibility (but it was like the last iFrame lol).
I'm really sorry if I'm wrong, but it really seems that the z-axis has an influence...
Edit :
By the way random things :
- I just realized that we can slide backwards with Squirtle immediatly after the pivot, with a crawl dash (~1/4 of FD). I will definitely use it often for my spacing. I always thought that we could only have a very little slide
- With Ivy, I don't exactly know why, but short hop + breverse out of shield has an insane range (and will catch your opponent if he DI towards you). More than a grounded BulletSeed (you can test if you don't trust me
We don't care about this
- Fun fact, during the vulnerable part of Charizard's spotdodge, he puts up his right foot, so he can't be hit by things like MK's Dtilt/DSmash (as long as Zard's other foot/another part of his hurtbox isn't touched by the hitbox) during the vulnerable part of his spotdodge, if you're facing away from your opponent.
D-Smash too? I didn't remember, that's interesting!
Edit 2 : I edited my original post.
Edit 3 : I still don't know about Zard's spotdodge... I can't play frame by frame so I don't know if Zard avoided MK's d-tilt because the hitbox wasn't active or something.
However, I tried shooting a Laser with Falco (he was at the edge of YI so he could shoot low lasers), I spotdodged it, and while zard was moving his foot towards the ground, I saw a glancing blow right under his foot (I even took a picture because it was fun lol) and he did NOT get hit by the laser (I was facing falco when I spotdodged so okay, the glancing blow might be caused by Zard keeping his foot in the air, but why didn't he get hit afterwards? Unless the glancing blow gives you invincibility frames or something, it's because of the z-axis.
But idk, I also had a glancing blow when my zard was still shining due to the invincibility (but it was like the last iFrame lol).
I'm really sorry if I'm wrong, but it really seems that the z-axis has an influence...
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Sorry to bump this thread, but I edited my previous post (and the long one as well) and since no one is replying I thought it wouldn't hurt if I bumped this thread so you can see that I've updated my post.
I don't know if anyone is playing this character seriously anymore, but, if so, could you do me a favor and test something for me in a way that will probably get you killed?
When you're at far or mid-range against a character without a far-reaching projectile, repeatedly dash at the opponent, as if you're trying to grab them (you can even do grab attempts or spotdodge hard-reads if you'd like). Try to keep a mental tally of what the opponent's go-to-responses are and post them here.
When you're at far or mid-range against a character without a far-reaching projectile, repeatedly dash at the opponent, as if you're trying to grab them (you can even do grab attempts or spotdodge hard-reads if you'd like). Try to keep a mental tally of what the opponent's go-to-responses are and post them here.
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Funny cus I picked up PT about a month ago and I do play him with seriousness and motive. I can try this and get back with you on this!
Did a online tourney bracket of this that reminded me of this exact situation and players would at times roll back away giving us a reason to give chase even farther reading the roll to get a dash grab. Will edit while I keep this up
Just found something neat while playing around with movement stuff.
When you stop a run (by no longer holding forward, rather than jumping, shielding, etc.) and Charizard goes into his skid animation, during the first few frames of animation, he moves forward faster than he would by just continuing to run forward.
This means that if you're looking to grab, U-Smash, or shield in front of the opponent at an optimal spacing, going into the skid animation beforehand gives you extra speed/distance covered beforehand. This should catch some people off-guard and improve his approach/spacing options a little bit.
When you stop a run (by no longer holding forward, rather than jumping, shielding, etc.) and Charizard goes into his skid animation, during the first few frames of animation, he moves forward faster than he would by just continuing to run forward.
This means that if you're looking to grab, U-Smash, or shield in front of the opponent at an optimal spacing, going into the skid animation beforehand gives you extra speed/distance covered beforehand. This should catch some people off-guard and improve his approach/spacing options a little bit.
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Luis I am still playing PT seriously and will be entering an event this weekend. I even think I hold the best win with PT this season after beating Gunblade in bracket.
This is a cute trick and I will test next time Vinnie and I play, but that may not help too much as Vinnie is rather disgustingly good in this MU.