Character w/ Largest Learning Curve

[PKSkyler]

Ness` PK techs are really hard to learn. i still cant do all of them.

 

[IDK]

i agree with sonic.

 

[UnSaxon51]

I think Poke Trainer has the highest learning curve simply because you're basically forced to learn three characters, and thus, three very different styles of play. You also need to know each character's strengths and weaknesses. And then you need to use them all in the same match.
It's one thing to know how to use more than one character. I can play decently (not great, but respectably) as about half the cast, but whenever I switch between two characters, it can be disorienting and takes a little adjusting.
Definitely PT for highest.

Ice Climbers are second because to play them effectively, you need to be able to do three things:
1) Use chain-grabs. This means getting the grab, knowing the rhythm, and knowing how to finish.
2) De-synch. This doesn't just mean getting the Climbers separated. It also means using each one efficiently to combo with each other.
3) KEEP NANA ALIVE. Nuff said.

Sonic has an above average learning curve, but it's not super high. Tenki already addressed it pretty well, so I'll let his argument be the final word on the matter.

Personally, I think Samus has a pretty steep curve, but that might be because she was my second in Melee, and her play-style is radically different now.

 

[Samuelson]

I havn't seen anybody mention Pit, Diddy or ZSS. They all have pretty steep learning curves.

 

[Darth JoBak]

"Snake, Pokemon Trainer, Ice Climbers come to mind."

this

and NOT R.O.B. , I main rob and wolf and I can tell you that the ATs few and timing is all thats tough to get used to (ie slow nair etc)

 

[Snail]

I havn't seen anybody mention Pit, Diddy or ZSS. They all have pretty steep learning curves.

Lmao, PIT?

Diddy is pretty hard though. ZSS I dunno, she seemed pretty straightforward to me... I'd still say Ice Climbers are the hardest.

 

[smaci92]

I think Metaknight has the largest learning curve lol jk. seriously, hmm...I would say:
1) Sonic
2) Link
3) IC's
4) PT
5) Ness or Lucas

 

[Frogsterking]

"Snake, Pokemon Trainer, Ice Climbers come to mind."

this

and NOT R.O.B. , I main rob and wolf and I can tell you that the ATs few and timing is all thats tough to get used to (ie slow nair etc)

Snake is possibly the easiest character in the game to learn.


I say Ice Climbers and Pokemon Trainer are the top two. Don't know who the third would be.

 

[Jim Morrison]

luigi's is so hard to learn o.o he fights so good, but i never can play as him, or mess up

 

[Miller]

I think Poke Trainer has the highest learning curve simply because you're basically forced to learn three characters, and thus, three very different styles of play. You also need to know each character's strengths and weaknesses. And then you need to use them all in the same match..

Ohhh noooo, you have to learn 3 whole characters, its heartbreaking :'(
God dammit, every good player can play more then three characters. Its not that big of a deal.

Also to everyone saying IC CG's are easy. Just because you can use them doesn't mean you can ACTUALLY use them

 

[Tenki]

Also to everyone saying IC CG's are easy. Just because you can use them doesn't mean you can ACTUALLY use them

On a similar point, just because someone can use CG doesn't mean that they're even gone past half of what IC's can do/ can use IC's effectively. The best/hardest IC's I fought were desynchers and didn't rely on grabs.


Also, @ people voting for Sonic as the hardest character to learn:

I figured this, after switching to/becoming a Sonic main [yeah, I didn't main him at first lol]- in general, Sonic is a "basic" character at the core of the gameplay; his mobility allows you to take advantage of things alot easier while trying to get around priority issues and crap. Aside from his special attacks (which are... pretty big of a deal), there isn't too much that makes him so different other than mobility and generally smaller physical range.

Anyone who knows how to set up a grab and follow up throws can take advantage of Sonic's grab game.
Anyone who can pick up spacing can take advantage of speed and his few 'ranged' moves.
Anyone who can read opponent movements can take advantage of his spin cancels and speed to bait and punish moves.

Other than learning his jumps, recovery range, dash, move range, and specials, there isn't really much to learn, character-speaking. You just learn to be a better player overall, and apply it to Sonic XD

So really, it's not "learning Sonic" as it is "learning Smash"

So this can mean two things:
- I'm wrong, and apparently there's a crapload of character-specific stuff to learn about Sonic [as a character, not in the mindgame department] that we haven't already found.
Or
- Alot of people suck at Smash and just rely on those 1-3 character-specific tactics/moves to win matches lol.

 

[Kappie]

Lucario.

Why? You gotta FEEL Lucario. BE LUCARIO. FEEEEEL LUCARIO. You play different at each percentage, you gotta be careful with your life ALWAYS. Unlike MK you can't watch TV and brawl, you gotta be at it with 100% concentration, learn all the percentages, when to combo, learn to approach and when not to approach, learn mixups (there are alot) and combo's that are safe, and avoid unsafe mixups. Minimize risks. Etc.

 

[Tenki]

Really?

I did put some time to learn Lucario, but I rusted it out of me after changing mains.

with Lucario, you learn to space. And you take advantage of spacing, really.. really well.
And after you hit 100%, you should try to space even better, except the main difference is that you can start using F-smash and you can kill with Aura Sphere.

 

[Kappie]

Yeah, I really think Lucario has the highest learning curve. Along with maybe Zero Suit Samus and I guess Ice Climbers. The last 2 is pulling alot of technical tricks of, while Lucario requires a whole mindset of its own. Lucario is really fun to play if you master him.

 

[Vardaok]

why hasn't captain falcon been mentioned O.o. Based on how many people bash on him one would think he has the largest learning curve to overcome his large pool of bad matchups and problems

 

[Tenki]

Here's my problem with your post and description though.

Lucario.

Why? You gotta FEEL Lucario. BE LUCARIO. FEEEEEL LUCARIO. You play different at each percentage, you gotta be careful with your life ALWAYS. Unlike MK you can't watch TV and brawl, you gotta be at it with 100% concentration, learn all the percentages, when to combo, learn to approach and when not to approach, learn mixups (there are alot) and combo's that are safe, and avoid unsafe mixups. Minimize risks. Etc.

Sonic.

Why? You gotta FEEL Sonic. BE SONIC. FEEEEEL SONIC. You play different at each percentage, you gotta be careful with your life ALWAYS. Unlike MK you can't watch TV and brawl, you gotta be at it with 100% concentration, learn all the percentages, when to combo, learn to approach and when not to approach, learn mixups (there are alot) and combo's that are safe, and avoid unsafe mixups. Minimize risks. Etc.

Wario.

Why? You gotta FEEL Wario. BE WARIO. FEEEEEL WARIO. You play different at each percentage, you gotta be careful with your life ALWAYS. Unlike MK you can't watch TV and brawl, you gotta be at it with 100% concentration, learn all the percentages, when to combo, learn to approach and when not to approach, learn mixups (there are alot) and combo's that are safe, and avoid unsafe mixups. Minimize risks. Etc.

Samus.

Why? You gotta FEEL Samus. BE SAMUS. FEEEEEL SAMUS- [lolguys]. You play different at each percentage, you gotta be careful with your life ALWAYS. Unlike MK you can't watch TV and brawl, you gotta be at it with 100% concentration, learn all the percentages, when to combo, learn to approach and when not to approach, learn mixups (there are alot) and combo's that are safe, and avoid unsafe mixups. Minimize risks. Etc.

Sure, they'll differ. Like, Sonic might be more aggressive at low%s and less aggressive at high%, but there aren't many characters who aren't - and it differs from player to player, too.

 

[Mote_Of_Fire]

I'd say Captain Falcon. I mean, learning how to win a match? Jesus.

 

[Nitrix]

Ice Climbers have the highest possible learning curves not because of the chaingrabs (although they are a factor), but rather because of the Desynch possibilities. The learning curve is endless, because they just have so many possibilities for many various situations when desynching is implemented. <<

I personally think Diddy should be second, but another part of me says that the bananas may not be all they're cracked up to be in terms of their "potential."

Here's a shocker that nobody could ever think up: Pikachu. He may not be the most technical character, but he should be up there definitely. Quick Attack Cancel is an absolute monster to learn perfectly. The thing about QAC is that you not only have to be fast enough to make the movements and make sure that they'll get you back to solid ground, but you also have to judge distances and precise angles, figure out what to do out of the quick attack, make slight adjustments for the opponent's movement, and being sure to move yourself in a way that you become unpunishable, as even the slightest mistake in the movement of your thumb could completely throw off the entire maneuver due to Pikachu's aerials having crap range, or putting yourself in range for an opponent to smack you out of your QA.

This guy is correct. Ice Climbers, Diddy and Pika all have VERY high learning curves. Ice Climbers and Diddy have pretty much secured their spot already. Ice Climbers have their amazingly complex grabs, and Diddy basically requires you to be a proffesional glide-tosser if you want to win against good people.

Pika is a definate possibility.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Much of Lucario's "learning curve" comes from the fact that making a mistake that costs you a stock is more punishing than usual, but avoiding those mistakes is something you should be learning no matter who you main anyways. It's not so much a learning curve as it is a risk/reward factor.

He's very reliant on good spacing, and his ability to string moves depends not only on his opponent's % but also his own, but that doesn't make him the hardest character to learn by a long shot. Above average learning curve mebbe, but there's plenty steeper.

On an unrelated note, to the people saying Captain Falcon... difficulty of learning a character and difficulty of winning with a character are NOT the same thing.

 

[Judge Judy]

Ice Climbers, every character has their learning curves in some way but ICs really take it to another level.

 

[Vyyruss]

Link by far

 

[Samuelson]

I think Pit has an extremely high learning curve due to all the AT's, plus it's very hard to land a kill move.

 

[Browny]

getting the frame-timing down on sonics DACUS 100% of the time is harder than all of pits AT's put together lol, its just as useless and doesnt make him more technical I can zap jump like 4-5 times in a row properly but sonics ill be lucky to get 1/3 attempts lol.

and lucario isnt technical. you can camp and space pretty easily with fsmash and AS and approaching with the usual fair-n/dair is pretty easy and very effective

 

[HeWhoCanSee]

Ike. His lag is something you really have to get used to, especially after crying to yourself because they gimped Falco.

I probably should get another main, but Ike is just awesome. You'll get no sympathy from either of us.

 

[Frogsterking]

Ike. His lag is something you really have to get used to, especially after crying to yourself because they gimped Falco.

I probably should get another main, but Ike is just awesome. You'll get no sympathy from either of us.

I think Ike may actually be one of the top few difficult characters, he has so many disadvantages to overcome.

 

[Swordplay]

Most of these are true.

Sonic
IC
Diddy
Link
PT
Yoshi

Here is one that hasn't been mentioned yet. He's a sleeper

Pikachu.

 

[Ganondorf_the_King]

Sonic
DK
Ganon (Maaaaybe)
PT
And Snake

 

[HeWhoCanSee]

I think Ike may actually be one of the top few difficult characters, he has so many disadvantages to overcome.

I'm thinking to get really good with. Like, tournament level good.

 

[GrayPlague]

Is Sonic really that hard to figure out?

And PT would probably be the hardest to learn, but it's rewarding if you manage to learn how to use all three effectively.

 

[Deleted member]

Probably:
PT
yoshi(dragonic reverse anyone?)
IC maybe
link
ness

 

[Onxy]

Snoic?

lol

 

[Browny]

considering the vast amount of nubs who come into the Sonic boards complaining because they dont know how to do anything except dash attack and spindash and get beaten by thier friend spamming something like kirbys upb, I think its fair to say his learning curve is higher than most

 

[J4pu]

I dont see how it could be Sonic or PT. They're not that hard to learn. the hardest would have to be Olimar or Ice Climbers.

The trick to PT is to use Squirtle till 60%, Ivysaur till 120%, and then use Charizard for the rest.

Who the hell let's you change pkmn whenever you want, if you change it normally means a free charged smash attack for your opponent.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

ness
Ic's
PT

 

[Glick]

I'd say sonic.

But jigglypuff is hard for someone to just pick up because its a complete unorthodox style of play.

 

[Tenki]

considering the vast amount of nubs who come into the Sonic boards complaining because they dont know how to do anything except dash attack and spindash and get beaten by thier friend spamming something like kirbys upb, I think its fair to say his learning curve is higher than most

lol.

Well duh, everyone knows how to play Sonic.
Down+BBBBBBBBB

>_>

I don't think it's his learning curve being higher than most than it is people being stupid when they use him. Really, someone can pick [insert character here] and jump over projectiles, airdodge, shield, grab, etc. Then they choose Sonic and their playstyle degenerates to dash attacks and down-B and complain about learning curves... lol.

PS this thread made me lol
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197256

Who the hell let's you change pkmn whenever you want, if you change it normally means a free charged smash attack for your opponent.

Squirtle: D-throw, smash attacks
Ivysaur: Some smash attack/get opponent off-stage move
Charizard: D-tilt, D-throw, smash attacks

Just knock them away, preferrably off-stage, then switch.

PPS
Agree for Pikachu- at least, on the QAC usage point.

 

[Timbers]

Squirtle can't/shouldn't knock anyone off the stage at 60% lol.

But irrelevant.



I'm personally throwing Peach, Wario, ICs, and Diddy up there.

 

[fruityman]

I'd agree with Sonic.
He's my main now and has taken the longest to learn out of all the characters I've learnt.
He has so many ATs (correct me if i'm wrong but I think he has the most) and you have to be pretty spot on with timing and controls not to mention quick-thinking so you can keep fooling your opponent.

Really, someone can pick [insert character here] and jump over projectiles, airdodge, shield, grab, etc. Then they choose Sonic and their playstyle degenerates to dash attacks and down-B and complain about learning curves... lol.

Do people really do that?
That proves it's not easy to utilise all of Sonic's moves. Oh well; I guess that what makes Sonic so refreshing and fun to me
As for my other choices, I'd say:
PT (learning 3 mains effectively is challenging)
Peach (floating, aerial, then dropping quickly can be hard unless you practise)
Diddy (he can wield a deadly banana skin if you've got the skills )

 

[Tenki]

sonic = ezpz

I'd agree with Sonic.
He's my main now and has taken the longest to learn out of all the characters I've learnt.
He has so many ATs (correct me if i'm wrong but I think he has the most) and you have to be pretty spot on with timing and controls not to mention quick-thinking so you can keep fooling your opponent.

Really, someone can pick [insert character here] and jump over projectiles, airdodge, shield, grab, etc. Then they choose Sonic and their playstyle degenerates to dash attacks and down-B and complain about learning curves... lol.

Do people really do that?
That proves it's not easy to utilise all of Sonic's moves. Oh well; I guess that what makes Sonic so refreshing and fun to me

He doesn't have the 'most' AT's, and his "AT's" are what, spinshot, spin cancels, and a few misc stuff. And they're simple to do.

It doesn't prove that it's hard to utilize all of Sonic's moves. It just proves that people somehow enter a dumb mindset when they use Sonic, and it's annoying to watch. Seriously, jumping, shielding, airdodging, grabbing - ANY character can do that - people just seem to forget or something when they use Sonic. How often do you see non-Sonic characters spam dash attacks? It's not very common is it? Then they use Sonic and degrade. It's a stupid mindset that doesn't warrant whining about learning curves.

 

[momochuu]

I love how people nominate their main to make themselves look better...


Lol@Pit