Shy Guy 86
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 8, 2008
- Messages
- 848
Garchomps barely carry Yache Berry, A Choice Scarf Porygon Z with Max Special Attack will OHKO with a single Ice Beam
Anyways, screw the pokemon discussion, there is a pokemon board over here
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Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
- Status
Anyways, screw the pokemon discussion, there is a pokemon board over here
Darth JoBak
Smash Apprentice
who won the two luigi wins and where can I find video?!?!?!?
Samochan
Smash Master
They carry yache berry simply because it allows garchomp to survive the ice attacks and then swords dance setup and ohko the opposing pokemon. Not only garchomp can pwn most of the pokemon on the entire game with single sword, but when those few reliable counters fail to counter him (counter stands for pokemon that can swich into garchomp and not get pwned in the process and can own him back), the metagame devolves into "who can use garchomp the best and who has the best team to get rid of garchomp" since garchomp is basically uncounterable with yache berry. Without yache it was bearable, weavile and friends could still ohko garchomp and force it out but now... team can only have so many ice beamers and chomp counters before it stops working as a whole. >_>
"Garchomp is arguably the best Pokemon in OU. It is the most commonly used Pokemon by a long shot, and there is even discussion about moving it to the Uber tier. Because of how often it is seen, using any Pokemon that Garchomp can set up on is generally asking for disaster" - note that garchomp is uber tier now
"Since the definition of a Garchomp counter is "a Pokemon that can switch into Garchomp and pose an immediate threat", the Swords Dancer moveset is literally uncounterable with Outrage and Yache Berry. No Pokemon can safely switch into Garchomp's powerful STAB attacks and threaten it before it is 2HKOd at worst"
- from smogon
/offtopic
Oh yes zelda-sheik is c-rank now, sweet. ^^
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
You know he was C last time but he moved down. That is why he's red.
Mr.E
Smash Lord
More like Extremespeed shouldn't be an 'empty' recovery when, as a Pokémon attack, it's twice as strong as Quick Attack. Pretty sure we got that in Brawl too and it actually deals damage...
Oh my god. MetaKnight now has a tier of his own, 500 points ahead from the runner up. That's even more points than the third in the ranking!
Do we really need more evidence to BAN him? Well, I suppose he won't be banned until he gets half of the points in the list. A few months, I guess. Just look at the pokémon community. They just banned Garchomp (the first ever non-legendary non-wobbufett pokémon to ever reach the "über" status), and a lot more pokémon are becoming viable.
Do we really need more evidence to BAN him? Well, I suppose he won't be banned until he gets half of the points in the list. A few months, I guess. Just look at the pokémon community. They just banned Garchomp (the first ever non-legendary non-wobbufett pokémon to ever reach the "über" status), and a lot more pokémon are becoming viable.
According to the opinions of many people, apparently not until he wins every tournament that matters and by more people than Mew2King.
cman
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 593
That seems like it would be too long to wait. Also how many of the 30 were M2K?
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
lol Metaknight is already banned in Italy
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
Ohh
... now I noticed that, I can't believe he got back in C rank, I was too busy looking at his green name to notice, I never even knew he was C rank recently. Pity then.
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Wow... I haven't been in this thread in a week and so much has happened... Mario jumped like 10 spots and the metagame and pretty much become the Metaknight. 
Metaknight now has more than 4 times the number of wins than Snake!?! If you can look at that with a straight face and say you're not concerned, you're a filthy liar. 
Metaknight now has more than 4 times the number of wins than Snake!?! If you can look at that with a straight face and say you're not concerned, you're a filthy liar. 
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
Far as I know, MK gets banned when MK is the only realistic way to win a tourney. We're not there yet by a long shot.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
Judge Judy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,638
Everyone pretty much suspected Meta Knight would be god...
Mario doesn't have much representation in tournies at all...I hope Mario ends up higher than low tier in the next tier list revisment...
Mario doesn't have much representation in tournies at all...I hope Mario ends up higher than low tier in the next tier list revisment...
Greenstreet
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2008
- Messages
- 2,965
Pfff. It's all a giant placebo affect. MK sucks and when everyone realises that there will be 4 million MK mainers in a giant circle, sobbing on each others shoulders.
Irow
Smash Ace
If we were playing Metaknight in the first place, we wouldn't do that - Trust me.
We would move on to the next most broken characters.
And the cycle would just repeat.
I suggest dropping Zelda and Sheik from the list and just giving their points to Zelda/Sheik. At this point, it's clear that the transforming style is dominant over a pure style either way which effectively makes never changing into just that: a playstyle. I think the old justification for counting them separately in melee really boiled down to "Sheik is so much better than Zelda that switching between them doesn't make sense". I think that kinda holds for Samus/Zero Suit Samus still (the number of players who use the Samus -> Zero Suit Samus taunt transformation mid-match is insignificant, and Zero Suit Samus is obviously the way better form), but it just doesn't hold for Zelda/Sheik. The reason I bring this up is because the separate counting system under represents Zelda/Sheik as a character; adding all three together would give a total of 59.8 which would be slightly above Donkey Kong and would seem to be generally more honestly depict how good they are.
About Meta Knight's continuing rise (addressed to everyone), it's fueling itself. I'm not saying that Meta Knight isn't good (he is good), but just take the shoes of someone who is totally new to the game looking at this topic deciding which character to use. He sees Meta Knight with 1385.8 points which is more than any two other scores added together. He'll use Meta Knight. If he wins, Meta Knight gets more points. This isn't necessarily permanent. It leads the game to be oversaturated with Meta Knight well beyond what the game's real balance suggests, and that means the elements of the game that work against Meta Knight have the potential to become dominant, word will spread about this "new" threat (even if it was there all along), and there will be a huge re-alignment. Of course, the elements that lost to Meta Knight but do well against the things that beat him then can re-emerge, and it all "starts over" but less drastic each time as we spiral toward the game's real balance.
To be fair, there IS a possibility that it doesn't stop, that Meta Knight actually has no real way to stop him, and that the game eventually becomes so saturated with Meta Knight that it's clear that absolutely nothing else is viable. Then and only then does ban talk become reasonable. The odds of the current numbers being stable are very slim due to the magnitude of Meta Knight's current lead; the future will doubtless provide much clearer guidance than a premature ban.
About Meta Knight's continuing rise (addressed to everyone), it's fueling itself. I'm not saying that Meta Knight isn't good (he is good), but just take the shoes of someone who is totally new to the game looking at this topic deciding which character to use. He sees Meta Knight with 1385.8 points which is more than any two other scores added together. He'll use Meta Knight. If he wins, Meta Knight gets more points. This isn't necessarily permanent. It leads the game to be oversaturated with Meta Knight well beyond what the game's real balance suggests, and that means the elements of the game that work against Meta Knight have the potential to become dominant, word will spread about this "new" threat (even if it was there all along), and there will be a huge re-alignment. Of course, the elements that lost to Meta Knight but do well against the things that beat him then can re-emerge, and it all "starts over" but less drastic each time as we spiral toward the game's real balance.
To be fair, there IS a possibility that it doesn't stop, that Meta Knight actually has no real way to stop him, and that the game eventually becomes so saturated with Meta Knight that it's clear that absolutely nothing else is viable. Then and only then does ban talk become reasonable. The odds of the current numbers being stable are very slim due to the magnitude of Meta Knight's current lead; the future will doubtless provide much clearer guidance than a premature ban.
PrinceMarthX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Messages
- 258
I think Meta Knight doing so well has more to do with all the pros playing him than the character itself.
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
And why do you think pros play him...
Shy Guy 86
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 8, 2008
- Messages
- 848
I need a link from where they announced that, or should I go to Smogon/Serebii to find that out?
infernovia
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Messages
- 675
http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/uber
And here is a thread discussing it:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45636
And here is a thread discussing it:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45636
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
Pit isnt doing too well, and Im not pleased. Im actually surprised that Wario is way up in there, above CG-addictive D3 and Falco.
Kazuhiro
Smash Rookie
Really impressed by the rankings, here.
Happy to see my boy, G&W up there. And wow, I thought that TL would be higher.
Aw well...
Happy to see my boy, G&W up there. And wow, I thought that TL would be higher.
Aw well...
Arena 51 Biweeklies 9/13:
Number of entrants: 26
Entry fee: $15
Where it was (what state it was in, or something): Rochester, NY
Top 8, with character main for each of the top 8:
1 JesiahTEG (Snake/MK)
2 Silverspawn (MK/D3)
3 Neil (Pikachu)
4 Asylum (Snake/MK)
5 Owna (MK)
5 Great White aka KoJ (Falco/ROB)
7 NessOnett (Ness)
7 Banisher(Ike/Mario)
Link to tournament page or results page:
http://www.arena51.com/nuke/modules...pic&t=2256&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105
Number of entrants: 26
Entry fee: $15
Where it was (what state it was in, or something): Rochester, NY
Top 8, with character main for each of the top 8:
1 JesiahTEG (Snake/MK)
2 Silverspawn (MK/D3)
3 Neil (Pikachu)
4 Asylum (Snake/MK)
5 Owna (MK)
5 Great White aka KoJ (Falco/ROB)
7 NessOnett (Ness)
7 Banisher(Ike/Mario)
Link to tournament page or results page:
http://www.arena51.com/nuke/modules...pic&t=2256&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
Look in florida, danny (C-doc) is doing really well with pit
gantrain05
Smash Master
yeah, keep posting results like this and we get closer to having MK banned.
PrinceMarthX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Messages
- 258
Because they're convinced he's the best. I really doubt they've throughly tried the other 36 characters. The skill of the player has a lot more to do than the potential of the character. Even in the tournament scene where skill is supposed to be equal because players are at the top of their game, it's not. There's a few that are above the rest and the character they play will likely win no matter the match up. How well you can read and punish your opponent means far more than what your character is able to do. If the majority of top players play Meta Knight because they think he's the best then he will continue to do the best. If for some reason the top players thought Captain Falcon was the best and only played him (0% possibility) then he would be the one dominating. So basically whomever the top players flock to will be the one to do best in the tournament scene.
Tournament placing doesn't determine a character's potential, it only determines how many top players each character has. Meta Knight's lead above everyone else isn't because he's that much better, it's because so many good players use him. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying Meta Knight isn't the best; I'm only saying that Meta Knight isn't as good as the difference shows. He's not 1.6 times better than the 2nd best character. That number is inflated by the top players focusing on him.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Not really. First place used MK as a secondary, second place mained DDD. Third got Pikachu.
People need to stop thinking the cup is half empty. MK is the best character, but he is neither unbeatable nor broken, which is constantly proven by results.
gantrain05
Smash Master
except isnt he considered banworthy if he makes over half the cast unviable? and if he takes up literally 4 out of the top 8 spots thats pretty rediculous.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
No, he'd be banworthy if he makes the ENTIRE cast unviable.
Levitas
the moon
Do you remember sheik in melee?
True that. Arnt Snake and Meta Knight Neutral?
Meta Knight is hard as hell, but if your REALLY good you can win. It takes a good player to win with Meta, and it takes a player twice as good as him to beat him.
gantrain05
Smash Master
thank you, thank you, do i win anything?
- Status