Character discussion: How to beat Mr. Game and Watch

[Chis]

A separate thread for a more focused discussion on how to deal G&W. Similar to that 'How to beat Metaknight thread' we made ages ago, here we discuss counter picks, commonly used tactics, how to deal with certain moves etc, etc. Marth and others will proceed after G&W.

Discuss/

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Pick another character? LOL... But seriously I do need help with this matchup, even more than MK and Marth. Any tips are very welcome! I will keep at it.

 

[MarKO X]

Patience.
Don't Jump into the ****.
G&W seems to have a legitimately punishing counter for everything can do, so I think you really have to wait for G&W to do something dumb and punish. Punish hard.

One thing I notice is that if they bair and it doesn't autocancel, the turtle is out for a split second and then the G&W does something, usually shield. So one thing to do is watch how the G&W bairs, watch how he reacts to the bairs that lag, and punish that.

 

[Camalange]

I heard GaW's can do something odd with Bair where it looks like they're in lag, but they can cancel it into something...or...other...(?)

Also, if the GaW is not Bairing you with the tip of the turtle, they're doing it wrong. DI towards them and counterattack if they don't do this.

 

[Chis]

I heard TDIing up works well against the Bair.



*Waits for Espy to pitch in*

 

[cutter]

I heard GaW's can do something odd with Bair where it looks like they're in lag, but they can cancel it into something...or...other...(?)

It's called Bair cancelling. Basically you do Bair, but before the hitbox actually comes out, you land on the ground. This results in an almost complete lag-free landing. It looks like G&W is going to Bair you since you see the turtle shell for a split second, but it doesn't happen.

It's mainly to confuse the defender and to bait them into doing something that would attempt to punish the Bair normally.

 

[Camalange]

I heard TDIing up works well against the Bair.

I believe that was meant to be SDI ;D

It's called Bair cancelling.

Ah, well thank you for clearing all that up for meh ^_^

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You can smash DI up and through the turtle and Bair him in the face for trying. The trick here is spin cancels. More so than other matches. Also don't forget that just running up to them and hitting shield works. Not like.. UP to them but maybe... mid range? It's as good as being next to them for us. Dash attack. Dash attack like a mother ****er. GaW is kinda slowish so it's hard for him to properly punish it. The most they TEND to do to me is jump after me with Nair. GaW has a lot of trouble if you knock him in the air. What's he gonna do? Dair? Walk and Fsmash that ****. Spins work well in this matchup for a reason other than cancels. A lot of players are used to Sonic's ASC so like.. go ahead and hold it till you hit the ground. GaW has punishable lag on a lot of his attacks. Pretend you're BOKU except don't run to the other side of the stage. At MOST he'll come at you and force you to SCVJ and spring away. Also some people may know me as something of a Fsmash *****. That's why this matchup doesn't bother me. Make sure you stutterstep and there are CRAZY amounts of opportunities to land it. Being able to do anything out of walk is TOO good.

 

[Chis]

Tap DI is using the control stick rather then the C stick btw.

 

[Tenki]

Tap DI is using the control stick rather then the C stick btw.

it's the same exact effect though

you tap to get SDI.

C-stick on smash setting is a [tap]+[attack], which is why SDI with C-stick works.

SDI

edit:

It's called Bair cancelling. Basically you do Bair, but before the hitbox actually comes out, you land on the ground. This results in an almost complete lag-free landing. It looks like G&W is going to Bair you since you see the turtle shell for a split second, but it doesn't happen.

It's mainly to confuse the defender and to bait them into doing something that would attempt to punish the Bair normally.

lol really?

Ophelia brought that up for Sonic's N-air forever ago, and I've done it with other characters accidentally.

it's kind of funny to see that some characters actually found a legit use for it O_ó;

 

[Isatis]

- The trick with G&W is definitely patience, since you're trying to punish what G&W does. I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that he is the 2nd lightest character in the game, and although that's probably a point to be brought up to heavier characters, this is no exception to any and all.

- G&W will also have time to bucket brake if you're attempting a KO move from the middle of the stage, so I suggest focusing on baiting him to the edges of the stage.

- G&W's smashes are very slow but very strong...I don't think I need to repeat what's been said for a year now. In my experience though the hitbox does last, so beware of that. I usually get shield grabbed during the end lag though when I'm G&W.

My 2 cents

 

[Jim Morrison]

O_ó;

Lol I love Tenki faces.

I'm not sure what to say about GaW, it's not just B-air that's a *****. Every aerials he has is so **** annoying. I'd imagine charging spindashes, hoping theyll B-air, and you release and time so that you hit them with their lag would work, but I'm probably daft (<3 Rick).

Against his U-air, don't bother D-airing, maybe HA works with that thing DJB found <_<?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

One things for sure, don't use Homing Attack or you'll probably get Up Smashed. Ehhh Espy?

I imagine you can punish G&W's Bair when hit lands/hits your shield. Try a dash attack or F Tilt or something

G&W is really irritating to fight, just be patient and look for a chance to get in and hit him. Being the 2nd lightest character in the game means little when he can stick two fingers up use his Up Taunt at the laws of gravity and physics by using that magical bucket of his

I just space Bairs and hope for the best

Really really minor and useless fact: G&W's Up + B suffers from air tripping if you grab him like Sonic

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You need enough time to activate bucket braking. Sonic's dashes allow you to position yourself basically where ever. Just make sure you hit him from near the edge of the stage. Also I THINK you can slide into his Fsmash with a running shield. Drop the shield and punish since it's just one big hitbox. Remember Link's UpB in Melee? Block the hit and you can stand in it.

 

[Kinzer]

Doesn't G&W's FSmash have a strong hit and then a weaker hit in the time it's out, or is it like Sonic's DSmash where you just get hit by one part and you're free to counterattack until the move is entirely over?

Also yes, I think Espy made it clear to all of us that Homing Attack in this MU is basically a "I give up, you win" button.

Also who is Tenki? I only know of a "Weather" now.

 

[~TBS~]

...this match up is soooooo obviously hard that its basically what Chis put at the top.

@Kinzer
yes, thats true. But G&W's hitbos is so long, and it still can kill you. :/
Are the developers even testing these things?

@Rick
yes, i actually did cypher grabbed him once. But guess what? he grabbed the edge due to his air speed. Tried it on a different neutral, same result.

Long lasting hitboxes are a bummer. The way he can just camp just irritates me to the fullest. i just dont understand this matchup. What, just WHAT are you supposed to do? Play defensively and wait until he makes a mistake, then punish accordingly? And i find killing him extremely hard. Or i just play the terrigood pro G&W's, eh Bionic? *cough GIMR,TANT cough*.

 

[JMan8891]

He isnt bad imo....

He's light. And bad at chasing. IF you mess up, he can KO ur ***... but really... grab games and ftilt **** him....

Marths harder... (LOl cAMMY)

spins crew him. He cant do much to chase them, and you should be able to follow up on them

 

[Camalange]

I don't have enough MU experience here to really give advice on how to beat him, but I can say without hesitation that ROB and GaW make Marth look like a sex slave.

 

[Boxob.]

I don't have enough MU experience here to really give advice on how to beat him, but I can say without hesitation that ROB and GaW make Marth look like a sex slave.

Marth blows, right on.

Also, I main G&W now. Sonic is easy stuff after learning the matchup. Which, I haven't done yet. Since no one plays me on wifi anymore.

But if ANYONE would like to get more G&W experience, let's help each other out, I need to know sonic still. I know what he can do but I need to practice it, you know?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Maybe if you actually went into the xat and ask for people there, or post in social thread/find people, maybe someone would bother brawling.
Also, I'm happy for you that you main GaW. I want everyone to quit Sonic. He is a bad character and mains should feel bad.

 

[Boxob.]

Every time I go into xat, NO one responds to me asking to play. So yeah.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Get in there from 16:00-22:00 EST I think.

I usually find people there (even though it's Chis).

I'm mostly be there to accept your challenge when I'm not working or sleeping.

 

[infomon]

Note that G&W's jab comes out on frame 4. Not that his jab is useful; but since that's his fastest move... the point is, from a neutral state, our terribad frame-3 jab actually has the advantage. Except for a shield. But anyway, G&W isn't as fast+safe as he may seem.

Spacing spacing spacing. A bad G&W (or one that doesn't know the matchup) is sooo fun to wreck, but getting wrecked by a G&W makes me feel so sad about myself

 

[Chis]

lol at this thread being dead. Shall we continue?

 

[Kinzer]

On to who though?

 

[Trent]

It's scary that R.O.B. can hit you no matter where you are?

 

[Exceladon City]

GW is pretty easy to play the bait and punish game with. Run in; bait an attack and punish him. The only real annoying aerial he has is Nair. SH Nair is gay gay gay gay gay, especially when there are a ton of platforms for him to shark.

 

[Tesh]

As dumb as it sounds, I find this matchup difficult because of how GnW is animated. Am I the only one who has trouble telling with the attack is over? Unless you can count frames in your head it seems....difficult to discern the hitbox portion from the lag of the attack.

 

[da K.I.D.]

as far as killing him goes, being so light means that we can kill him with moves that we are using normally to punish anyway.

up throw and ASC are great for kills in this match.

also can somebody find the video of Blapius beating Gdubs bair, if i remember correctly, bair has 5 hits in the air and a landing 'splash' hitbox. the best way to punish it is to shield the first 4 hits and spotdodge in the middle of the move to make the last hit and the splash hit miss, which you can then punish with, grab, jab, down tilt or f tilt, depending on his spacing relative to you

 

[infomon]

As dumb as it sounds, I find this matchup difficult because of how GnW is animated. Am I the only one who has trouble telling with the attack is over? Unless you can count frames in your head it seems....difficult to discern the hitbox portion from the lag of the attack.

Yeah, it takes getting used to. For example, his Dtilt..... you see the thing come out, but its hitbox doesn't exist until after it's been out for a few frames.

A lot of G&W's moves are laggy (and his jab is even slower than ours lol, so we're at an advantage if we clash, sorta). But the hitboxes don't really match what it looks like. meh.

 

[da K.I.D.]

his jab has way more range than ours tho

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah but SPECIFICALLY in the instance of clashing jabs safe right?

 

[mars16]

I think Sonic has a father jab then luigi.

 

[Camalange]

I think Sonic has a father jab then luigi.

you are horribly wrong.


luigi's jab is better than sonic's in every way possible.

 

[vidwatcher4ever]

watch malcolm vs blackanese on youtube for a little match-up help

 

[da K.I.D.]

that match is literally half a year old....

but since its game and watch the only thing to change in that matchup is what we can do cus lord knows g watch hasnt done anything new in a while

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

Does Ftilt outspace GW's Dtilt? I lose regularly to Mr. Escalator's GW but the times I do relatively ok are when I manage to get in some Ftilts and some DAs.

 

[infomon]

Ftilt won't "outspace" G&W's Dtilt because they'll clash before either of you get hit, unless the timing is weird in either direction. AFAIK. Also note that our jab clashes with his Dtilt. Also note that our jab comes out faster than his jab.

Also note that the hitbox on G&W's Dtilt is weird; you see the full box out before it's actually a hitbox. I forget what frame it starts on, but it's slower than it looks.

 

[mars16]

you are horribly wrong.


luigi's jab is better than sonic's in every way possible.

Yea I over checked I am horribly wrong.

 

[Roxas1988]

Definetly be aware of his u-smash wich kills sonic very effing early. Also I like to shield approach my *** off against G&W players. the match up is def in their favor most of the time, but I like to think of sonic as the best shield approacher in the game just because of his broken speed. I also like to dash dance my *** off to keep G&W on his toes. most of all avoid using the homing attack at all costs. And for his bair, it should be telegraphed so just shield approach him most of the time. And when its time to finish him, Hit the c-stick.