Character Competitive Impressions

[FullMoon]

I'm a Timmy predominantly, but I do have some of the others in me.

 

[Thinkaman]

We all have a little Timmy in us, a little voice named Douglas Jay Falcon.

 

[Ffamran]

Being unable to steer Down-B or use Neutral-B to set up for KO opportunities does a decent number on her ability to KO, and B-Air is still not as powerful as it was. I think it's warranted to round her out a little more, considering she's losing a considerable amount.

Is this what you're talking about for Sheik's Bair? This would make the late hit a bit stronger and the sour-spot frame 4 hit also stronger while the sweet-spot is weaker than launch Sheik Bair's tipper and basically be the mis-spaced hit which kills 14% later. Not that bad... Would that make the 9% hit kill at around 180% then?

Bair
Frame  4- 6:    10%        30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361°
Frame  4- 6:    9%        30b/100g (KO@ 180?%) 361°
Frame  7-14:     7%        10b/101g (KO@ ???%) 361°
Max Damage:    10%

Or this? This would effectively make it a bit like Wolf's Bair where the tip did the most damage, the middle did less, and, and the body did the weakest while having a late hit. This would make it better than launch as you can slightly mis-space it and still have a decent reward while doing 1% less. This would also involve creating another hitbox like what patch 1.0.6 did to Samus's Ftilt. Where? I'd say having it on the front leg would be better than somewhere on the middle of the back leg. So, it would be 10% for the tip of her back leg, 7% remains where it's at, and 9% on the body just for get off my purposes with the late hit overriding all the hitboxes.

Bair
Frame  4- 6:    10%        30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361°
Frame  4- 6:    9%        30b/100g (KO@ 180?%) 361°
Frame  4- 6:    7%        30b/100g (KO@ 194?%) 361°
Frame  7-14:     5%        10b/101g (KO@ 335%) 361°
Max Damage:    11%

Still, her Bair wasn't strong and Reflex's idea for this also isn't strong. It was never strong, but it was a good option for Sheik and I still don't know why it was nerfed when Fair was the problem not Bair. If you want strong, slap Falco's Bair on Sheik with Sheik's Bair hitbox, now that is strong if not broken on a character who can abuse it even more. Sheik with Falco's Bair even with Falco's hitboxes would have made pre-patch 1.0.6 Diddy look like a weak character. Falco's Bair is a borderline broken move on a decent character and if was on some other characters, they would be broken. Sheik, ZSS, Fox, Captain Falcon, Mario, Luigi, Ike, Meta Knight, Greninja, Pit, Sonic, Toon Link, Ryu, Lucina, Roy, Marth - just have the tipper be the sweet-spot -, Shulk, DK, Diddy, etc would all be stronger with Falco's Bair. Even with Falco's Bair hitbox with some changes like Ike's would be a disjoint, it would be ridiculous not to mention some of them would have reduced landing lag like Shulk. Could you imagine Shulk with a frame 4 Bair with that much range and 15 frames of landing lag? Hello, insanity, thy name is Bair. Ganondorf's Bair is already stronger, but reducing the startup to frame 4 from a frame 10 move? Ganondorf would love that speed upgrade even if it kills around 17% less... Imagine Falco's Bair as Ganondorf's jab; same animation as Ganondorf's current jab, comes out twice as fast now, and kills... Yesh... must find more ways to break characters.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

The thing about Dedede is if you don't know what to do against him you'll get majorly screwed. My first time playing against a competent DDD in tournament and I was like "yeah this penguin's all set." One tournament later and I almost 3-stocked the next competent DDD player I ran into. Neutral itself can be strange if you play too aggressively, but once you do get in you need to take advantage of everything Dedede can't do to you in disadvantage. Do it well enough and you'll realise why Smoothie gets depressed about D3's long-term viability.

I'm not depressed about it, Luco. I'm a realist. I know what my character can and can't do. There's no sense in sugarcoating it, so why doll it up? I'll happily go over D3's best traits and best MUs, certainly, but I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that makes him a better character than what he actually is.

But I'll keep working in spite of that. The onus is on me to scrape something together. After all, no matter the tools utilized in a contest like this, the better player will win.

I just have to be the better player.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Ulevo]

I didn't say he was bad. I just think he needs a little bit more of a push to remove most people's doubts about his viability. I'm well aware that he's a character that's come a long way but, unlike Kirby, he's someone that people still largely doubt despite the improvements.

Add in: Plus, there's a lot that would have to be changed to get him back to his Brawl self. For Metaknight to be the monster he was in Brawl, you'd have to give him back his absurd priority, recovery options, shield poking, and, of course, the Funnel O' Fun™. I don't think giving him back some of his range would return him to "Where is Your God Now" mode.

The only people who have doubts are the people in regions who have not been dominated by Ito.

Meta Knight does not need changes, excluding his lag install on Shuttle Loop.

 

[ぱみゅ]

MetaKnight is pretty good but still subpar with Top Tiers IMO.
Tweaking his Fair so it at least makes sense (matching the animation like they did with Jab, Dair, Uair and Ftilt) would help him a lot. That being said, reducing its lag would make him a beast, not sure if worse than current Luigi or Sheik tho.

 

[shrooby]

His grab range is still pretty solid and he's got good reach. Maybe I'm splitting hairs by calling these defensive properties? I dunno. I just know from my own experience that he's not a character that's able to just run in and has to wait for opportunities and dun goofs to get things done. I feel like he's a character built from the ground up for defense. Granted, there are characters like that have much better defensive tools but these characters have a much easier time being offensive too. If you took away the D's defensive properties, you'd basically have a slow, floaty Bowser with much less reliable kill options.

Dedede is just really okay.

As Smooth said, he isn't very defensive. It's just patience. Patience =/= defense.
He was more defensive in Brawl when he had Waddle Dees to absorb some projectiles. So just because you had a projectile didn't mean Dedede was completely forced to approach you.
Now DDD just loses to any character with a projectile or two.

And good luck if your opponent knows how to fight DDD. He has basically one out-of-shield option so as soon as they get in you generally just are screwed. Which if they know to just wait for you to use any one of those moves with a trillion frames of ending lag (which is most of Dedede's moves), they can do pretty easily.

 

[Sir Tundra]

Why is it that FG is filled with what would be considered low-mid tier characters? You would think you would see a lot of Sheik, ZSS, Luigi, Fox, Ness, Diddy, Pikachu, Sonic, etc.

Instead I see a ton of Link, Samus, Marth, Lucina, Ganon, and Ike. Not that these characters are bad, but I would think it would be the other way around.

I've heard it said in the past that some of these heavies and zoning characters go up a tier or two in even a little lag, but that doesn't explain all the Marthcina. What am I missing?

The most common characters I see that would actually be considered high tier are Falcon, Mario, Yoshi and Roy. Any thoughts on why FG isn't full of top tiers?

I mostly see everytime I go in for glory. That's probrobly because either people are trying to be like trifroze making montages or it's because of casual players and falcon is a pretty popular.

I also see because people just love spamming pk fire to down throw to fair chains as well as mother****ing since he's piss poor easy and those fraud diddy mains needed a new main to go to. No offense to anyone who mains him in this thread.
I almost never see cause people be scrub peasants

Edit: character's like and don't even see usage in fg despite being potientialy top 5(pikachu)/top 10(diddy)aren't the easiest characters to pick up. this is especially true for diddy when considering his nerfs in 1.0.8

 

[Speed Boost]

I see pretty much nothing but Sheik, ZSS, Fox, Ness, Diddy, Pikachu, Sonic, Luigi... A fellow actual Samus main is incredibly rare, like wii-fit and palutena rare. Ike since his "upgrade" is much more common.
It's probably simply servers, matchmaking and people attempting counter-picks.
I know when I rise to about 90% win ratio in my last 50 the game sends me the dead-ringer crazy strong players. That's like clockwork precise.

I guess it could be because I'm paired with opponents in the 70% range and there are more top tiers higher up?

 

[Luco]

Timmy plays the game for an emotional experience. He's going to play whatever character he likes and makes him feel good. In Smash, this could be any of them.

Johnny plays the game for a cognitive experience. He's going to play whatever character he feels most unique and clever with--which again, in Smash could honestly be any of them.

Spike plays the game to compete and prove himself. He's going to play whichever character he is provably best at, which is much more likely to be a top tier.

Everyone in this topic is predominantly a Johnny-Spike mix.

I was going to ask you to look at my post-bits and say that last line again (stams!) but I actually realised I have a lot of all 3. I would never abandon my PSI bros, even when the going gets tough, but I do feel very unique and clever as someone's who's efforts with these characters show far beyond those who picked them up for the first time in this game (not a blanket rule btw, there are some great Ness mains this iteration who didn't use him before, but you get the gist) and I have a hell of a competitive streak and really do want to prove to others that I can do it and win.

Also I tend to get a mix, I had no idea there was true match-making online. In FG I used to get really bored so I'd pull out secondaries or tertiaries and as such my win rate is only in the 80%s. It gets harder to bring it back up too: I've played over 1300 matches on 3DS alone, which obviously means any new result doesn't affect the score as much. :'(

That said I do get some brilliant players that I'm sure you'd expect out of the 90's with their win-rates. The most common characters I see include Link, Roy, Peach, ZSS, Mario, Mac (*sigh*) and Falcon. I see so much Falcon it hurts my brain.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I guess it could be because I'm paired with opponents in the 70% range and there are more top tiers higher up?

There have been claims that there's no match making, or ranking on for-glory, but I'm not entirely convinced. It's like they filp a switch at 90%. Whether it's the "top tiers" as smashboards has generally agreed upon are more prevalent at that level I'm not sure. I feel the "tech like a god, knows all their guaranteed combos and understands spacing" all show up quite suddenly when I win a whole pile in a row...

 

[NachoOfCheese]

I can tell you that the reason why you don't see a lot of Pikachus online: Quick attack is hard to manage with the lag.
And I can tell you from expirience the reason why people play Falcon a ton online is that he's an easy character to pick up. I picked him up when I was a scrub lord because of his uptilt spike being super easy to land (against bad people anyways, and there were a lot more of them in the game's beginning,)
There's nothing wrong with trying out stuff you've been labbing with on For Glory. You just gotta focus more on fundamentals than actually winning.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Hey, Diddy Kong.

http://pastebin.com/mq3qs9JP

Spoiler

Diddy Kong:

Dash Attack: All active frames come out 2 frames faster, from 9/18/24 to 7/16/22. Covers more horizontal distance. Is now clankable.
(Quality-of-life change to give grounded Diddy a bit more burst range/pressure; trying to give life to an otherwise-suboptimal move. Being able to clank would allow Diddy to get close at neutral frame advantage on a clank, which he has many options for.)

Up-Smash: Weight-dependent knockback reduced on linking hitboxes. Angle reduced from 120° to 115° on ground-only hitbox.
(Reduces the number of situations where opponents fly too far to link correctly on the initial hit.)

Forward-Throw: Knockback growth increased from 65 to 75.
(Increases Diddy's horizontal KO potential a bit in a way that encourages approaching.)

Forward-Special: Input window to activate the kick reduced from 12-43 to 12-28. Horizontal momentum goes back to its normal maximum on the first actionable frame.
(Makes the grab/attack mix-up effective at a smaller range. Reduces its ability to get away from disadvantaged situations in mid-air by preventing Diddy from moving horizontally at high speed after the move ends.)

Up-Special: The initial direction upon launch is locked after 30 frames of charging.
(Makes intercepting the move more reasonable; it also lets you know whether or not Diddy plans on going under the stage or not. He still has his great flexibility after launching himself, though.)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Hey, Diddy Kong.

http://pastebin.com/mq3qs9JP

Spoiler

Diddy Kong:

Dash Attack: All active frames come out 2 frames faster, from 9/18/24 to 7/16/22. Covers more horizontal distance. Is now clankable.
(Quality-of-life change to give grounded Diddy a bit more burst range/pressure; trying to give life to an otherwise-suboptimal move. Being able to clank would allow Diddy to get close at neutral frame advantage on a clank, which he has many options for.)

Up-Smash: Weight-dependent knockback reduced on linking hitboxes. Angle reduced from 120° to 115° on ground-only hitbox.
(Reduces the number of situations where opponents fly too far to link correctly on the initial hit.)

Forward-Throw: Knockback growth increased from 65 to 75.
(Increases Diddy's horizontal KO potential a bit in a way that encourages approaching.)

Forward-Special: Input window to activate the kick reduced from 12-43 to 12-28. Horizontal momentum goes back to its normal maximum on the first actionable frame.
(Makes the grab/attack mix-up effective at a smaller range. Reduces its ability to get away from disadvantaged situations in mid-air by preventing Diddy from moving horizontally at high speed after the move ends.)

Up-Special: The initial direction upon launch is locked after 30 frames of charging.
(Makes intercepting the move more reasonable; it also lets you know whether or not Diddy plans on going under the stage or not. He still has his great flexibility after launching himself, though.)

Those all look good. Buffs are pretty minor but noticeable.

I remember hearing that Diddy's jab isn't used very much, though that was a few patches back and I think Dtilt has been nerfed since then. Would buffing his jab slightly in some way be something to consider as well?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The only thing that seemed right to do with Diddy's Jabs would be to to make Jab3 hit people upward instead of outward, but he already has enough hit confirm stuff, IMO. D-Tilt would overshadow anything else, most likely (which is still a fine tool for strings even with the damage nerf) in a way very similar to Wario.

 

[shadowmm151]

Yeah I agree,is really easy to pick up and he's probably the most hype character in the game. That being said, he's still a really amazing character at the highest levels of play. Heck just this weekend Ally pulled out a ! I didn't even know Ally had a Falcon. His got beat by a in winner's semis and then when he dittoed he still lost (2-0), so when he rematched the guy in loser's finals he busted out and completely dominated him 3-0. People like to keep putting down, but his offense is THAT good.

 

[Djent]

EVO top 32 predictions:

Spoiler

See here.
1) ZeRo
2) ESAM
3) Rain
4) Dabuz
5) Nairo
5) Larry Lurr
7) Mr-R
7) Nietono
=====Finals Cutoff=====
9) MVD
9) Ally
9) NickRiddle
9) Shaky
13) Dapuffster
13) Aerolink
13) FOW
13) 8bitman
17) Salem
17) Ito
17) K9sbruce
17) Mr. ConCon
17) Tyrant
17) True Blue
17) Abadango
17) False
25) Nyanko
25) StaticManny
25) Phuzix
25) Denti
25) Logic
25) 6WX
25) Falln
25) John Numbers

Interesting early MUs:

Spoiler

NAKAT vs. Rich Brown
This is almost too high-profile to be occurring in pools, but I guess it flew under the radar. Rich Brown has been on fire lately and NAKAT has been in quite the slump, so I would expect the space pilot to come out on top. Rich has Olimar experience from Larry, but those same encounters suggest that the MU could be quite rough. I don't know who will win this, but I don't think either will make top 32 as the winner projects to fight 8bitman.
Dabuz vs. Ito
Right out of pools, the #3 seed projects to play Imperial's recent acquisition. Rosalina and Meta Knight seem like they'd both murder each other in unique ways, although I don't know enough about either character to say if one is heavily favored overall. I don't think this has ever been played at such a high level before, so it's something to watch for sure, especially since an upset of this caliber would turn the bracket on its head.
Nietono vs. Abadango
It is rather unfortunate that this match occurs as early as it does. Nietono has been doing quite well in Japan recently, whereas Abadango hasn't placed top 8 in several months. So I think he is the realistic favorite going in. However, both of Abadango's characters benefit heavily from customs (more so than Fox, even) and Abadango seems to pay more attention to the American meta. So you never know...maybe my predicted top 8 will get messed up very early on.
Vinnie vs. NickRiddle
A tough break for both players; I was surprised that Nick was unseeded. This is another R1 death-match which will likely determine the shape of Top 32 to come. I have Nick favored if he runs Brawler (as he probably will), as he has played this MU against FL Sheiks more often than Vinnie has played Dapuffster (to my knowledge). Speaking of whom, the winner of this will likely face off against the Mii master himself...yikes.
Aerolink vs. John Numbers
It's sad that these wonky custom warriors have to beat on each other just for a shot at ZeRo in Semis, but that's just tough luck. Palutena has a lot of ways of dealing with projectiles, but I don't think she has a good answer to ledge-stalling unless Aerolink runs Explosive Flame. I also think Jumbo Hoops gives Numbers a better option to edge-guard Jump Glide than most characters have available.
ESAM vs. Tyrant
I don't think there's any doubt which way this MU will go (especially with customs on), but it is still of interest because of MK's theoretical strong points against the yellow rat. He has better options for escaping HSB in disadvantage than most characters. Plus, with buffed ftilt and a godlike dash attack, the bat actually stands a chance at winning a grounded neutral game. But I just don't see anyone shy of ZeRo (or possibly Rain) shutting down ESAM.
Shaky vs. 6WX
This is one MU that's really tough to call. It should go to 6WX based on MU theory and experience, but Shaky has been vastly outperforming the former undisputed best Sonic as of late. And the stakes are high, because the loser will likely face True Blue, a player who could potentially beat either loser and has shown exceptional potency in the Sonic ditto. Unfortunately, the winner of this MU still has to get through MVD and ESAM to make top 8. So it's probably not happening for either of them.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Yeah I agree,is really easy to pick up and he's probably the most hype character in the game. That being said, he's still a really amazing character at the highest levels of play. Heck just this weekend Ally pulled out a ! I didn't even know Ally had a Falcon. His got beat by a in winner's semis and then when he dittoed he still lost (2-0), so when he rematched the guy in loser's finals he busted out and completely dominated him 3-0. People like to keep putting down, but his offense is THAT good.

Ally uses everyone tbh. He goes to the weekly I go to. Sometimes it's Falco, other times he'll bring out ROB, Marth, even Rosalina. He's just really good. I wonder how he'll do at EVO. I've never seen him fight with Customs on.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I can tell you that the reason why you don't see a lot of Pikachus online: Quick attack is hard to manage with the lag.
And I can tell you from expirience the reason why people play Falcon a ton online is that he's an easy character to pick up. I picked him up when I was a scrub lord because of his uptilt spike being super easy to land (against bad people anyways, and there were a lot more of them in the game's beginning,)
There's nothing wrong with trying out stuff you've been labbing with on For Glory. You just gotta focus more on fundamentals than actually winning.

i agree

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I thought Denti had a Sheik.

 

[Hippieslayer]

best swordfighter moveset overall:

neutral: shuriken of light
Side: slash launcher
up: hero's spin
down: blade counter

discuss

*some furry, might be tails grandfather I dunno*

/gheb-style

 

[Macedonian]

That's because ally is another of the top players that really dosnt care for customs.

 

[warionumbah2]

Ito also has a atm. Which is smart since customs **** on MK hard, if things go bad he can abuse the fact that no one has played a MK of his caliber(or MKs in general).

Ftilt won't do jack to Pikachu tbh.

 

[Djent]

"Shrunken of Lightside" should be a move if it isn't planned for DLC already.

 

[NickRiddle]

best swordfighter moveset overall:neutral: shrunken of lightside: slash launcher
up: hero's spin
down: blade counter

discuss

/gheb-style

It's not GHEB without

EVO top 32 predictions:

Spoiler

1) ZeRo
2) ESAM
3) Rain
4) Dabuz
5) Nairo
5) Larry Lurr
7) Mr-R
7) Nietono
=====Finals Cutoff=====
9) MVD
9) Ally
9) NickRiddle
9) Shaky
13) Dapuffster
13) Aerolink
13) FOW
13) 8bitman
17) Salem
17) Ito
17) K9sbruce
17) Mr. ConCon
17) Tyrant
17) True Blue
17) Abadango
17) False
25) Nyanko
25) StaticManny
25) Phuzix
25) Denti
25) Logic
25) 6WX
25) Falln
25) John Numbers

Interesting early MUs:

Spoiler

NAKAT vs. Rich Brown
This is almost too high-profile to be occurring in pools, but I guess it flew under the radar. Rich Brown has been on fire lately and NAKAT has been in quite the slump, so I would expect the space pilot to come out on top. Rich has Olimar experience from Larry, but those same encounters suggest that the MU could be quite rough. I don't know who will win this, but I don't think either will make top 32 as the winner projects to fight 8bitman.
Dabuz vs. Ito
Right out of pools, the #3 seed projects to play Imperial's recent acquisition. Rosalina and Meta Knight seem like they'd both murder each other in unique ways, although I don't know enough about either character to say if one is heavily favored overall. I don't think this has ever been played at such a high level before, so it's something to watch for sure, especially since an upset of this caliber would turn the bracket on its head.
Nietono vs. Abadango
It is rather unfortunate that this match occurs as early as it does. Nietono has been doing quite well in Japan recently, whereas Abadango hasn't placed top 8 in several months. So I think he is the realistic favorite going in. However, both of Abadango's characters benefit heavily from customs (more so than Fox, even) and Abadango seems to pay more attention to the American meta. So you never know...maybe my predicted top 8 will get messed up very early on.
Vinnie vs. NickRiddle
A tough break for both players; I was surprised that Nick was unseeded. This is another R1 death-match which will likely determine the shape of Top 32 to come. I have Nick favored if he runs Brawler (as he probably will), as he has played this MU against FL Sheiks more often than Vinnie has played Dapuffster (to my knowledge). Speaking of whom, the winner of this will likely face off against the Mii master himself...yikes.
Aerolink vs. John Numbers
It's sad that these wonky custom warriors have to beat on each other just for a shot at ZeRo in Semis, but that's just tough luck. Palutena has a lot of ways of dealing with projectiles, but I don't think she has a good answer to ledge-stalling unless Aerolink runs Explosive Flame. I also think Jumbo Hoops gives Numbers a better option to edge-guard Jump Glide than most characters have available.
ESAM vs. Tyrant
I don't think there's any doubt which way this MU will go (especially with customs on), but it is still of interest because of MK's theoretical strong points against the yellow rat. He has better options for escaping HSB in disadvantage than most characters. Plus, with buffed ftilt and a godlike dash attack, the bat actually stands a chance at winning a grounded neutral game. But I just don't see anyone shy of ZeRo (or possibly Rain) shutting down ESAM.
Shaky vs. 6WX
This is one MU that's really tough to call. It should go to 6WX based on MU theory and experience, but Shaky has been vastly outperforming the former undisputed best Sonic as of late. And the stakes are high, because the loser will likely face True Blue, a player who could potentially beat either loser and has shown exceptional potency in the Sonic ditto. Unfortunately, the winner of this MU still has to get through MVD and ESAM to make top 8. So it's probably not happening for either of them.

I'm going to do my best to disrupt your top 8 predictions by beating both Puffster and Ramin!
Haven't looked at the finals bracket yet, but I'm just going to beat anybody I'm forced to play anyway!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm hoping to beat Denti in the second round of pools.

 

[Djent]

'm going to do my best to disrupt your top 8 predictions by beating both Puffster and Ramin!
Haven't looked at the finals bracket yet, but I'm just going to beat anybody I'm forced to play anyway!

I have you beating Puffster already FWIW.

And yes, beat everyone using various kicks that kill too early.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

That's because ally is another of the top players that really dosnt care for customs.

Well yeah, our scene is anti-customs because they're a hassle and result in less usable setups. Half of me hopes that EVO will show that customs are cool and make the game better, but half of me really doesn't care.

I'm hoping to beat Denti in the second round of pools.

You going Zard or Wario at EVO?

 

[NickRiddle]

I have you beating Puffster already FWIW.

And yes, beat everyone using various kicks that kill too early.

<3
Hey now!
F-smash is a punch, and ALSO kills far too early!
And dair is a... fist move...

 

[Kofu]

<3
Hey now!
F-smash is a punch, and ALSO kills far too early!
And dair is a... fist move...

At first I thought you were talking about ZSS but then realized you were referencing Brawler.

The kick thing kind of applies to both of your characters tbh

 

[NickRiddle]

At first I thought you were talking about ZSS but then realized you were referencing Brawler.

The kick thing kind of applies to both of your characters tbh

This is very true, but Boost Kick doesn't kill NEARLY as early as Helicopter Kick.

 

[David Viran]

This is very true, but Boost Kick doesn't kill NEARLY as early as Helicopter Kick.

But flip kick does.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Captain Falcon. No remorse, though I think I was kind, all things considered. He still keeps a number of disjoints.

http://pastebin.com/NKfj8Uy8

Spoiler

Captain Falcon:

Jab1: Active frames reduced from 3 to 1.
(Falcon is tied for the fastest recurring "hold A to loop Jab1" with great follow-ups whether you finish it or not, so this is meant to curb its ability to create a wall of hitboxes. Compare to Little Mac, whose Jab1 also loops every six frames but is only active for 1 frame. Prevents "hold A" from being a Ledge Climb punish for Falcon and generally makes this poke more reasonable. Still among the best Jabs in the game.)

Jab2: Active frames reduced from 3 to 2.
(An outlier in terms of active frames for a Jab, homogenized to make it less imposing.)

Forward-Smash: Range reduced to match the elbow more closely.
(Increases the need for precision while making it less safe when well-spaced. The backward lean and ability to do from an initial dash make it plenty useful without the disjoint.)

Back-Aerial: Autocancel window decreased from 19-36 to 27-36.
(Adds more commitment to B-Air so that Falcon can't retreat with it near the apex of his shorthop with relative impunity against slower characters. It's still a great poke with only 12 frames of landing lag when not autocanceled.)

Dash Grab: Reduce distance covered by half.
(Makes the "dead zone" where you pass through opponents smaller in exchange for toning down Falcon's burst range. This is needed to allow slow character to establish a reasonable spacing game without constantly being threatened by Falcon's Dash Grab.)

Up-Special: Damage reduced from 17% to 14%.
(Reduces his reward on a move with significant disjoint. Knockback is not compensated; it will KO at later percents as a result. Prevents Falcon from being able to KO edgeguarding opponents so easily.)

Down-Special: Aerial landing hitbox only hits grounded opponents.
(Prevents situations where using an aerial Down-B on grounded opponents would get both hits and deal 20-24%.)

 

[NickRiddle]

But flip kick does.

Haha .
No .

 

[David Viran]

Haha .
No .

Well, spike set ups kill pretty early.

 

[NickRiddle]

Well, spike set ups kill pretty early.

40 before hit?
Nah.

 

[Ulevo]

So, I feel like Ito, Meta Knight or not, is going to surprise a lot of people at EVO.

Be prepared.

 

[Kofu]

This is very true, but Boost Kick doesn't kill NEARLY as early as Helicopter Kick.

Boost Kick still hits far too hard for a frame 6 attack (IIRC) that can be done out of shield, even if opponents are prone to fall out of it and it can often be DIed.

Flip Kick also hits too hard for the flexibility the attack offers. It can snag early kills near the edge like Helicopter Kick does, too, even if those kills are usually from meteors.

 

[NickRiddle]

So, I feel like Ito, Meta Knight or not, is going to surprise a lot of people at EVO.

Be prepared.

I'm actually really excited to see how Ito does at an event this large.

Boost Kick still hits far too hard for a frame 6 attack (IIRC) that can be done out of shield, even if opponents are prone to fall out of it and it can often be DIed.

Flip Kick also hits too hard for the flexibility the attack offers. It can snag early kills near the edge like Helicopter Kick does, too, even if those kills are usually from meteors.

I mean, I don't want to argue anymore in this thread, but Helicopter Kick...

 

[Kofu]

I mean, I don't want to argue anymore in this thread, but Helicopter Kick...

Oh, Helicopter Kick is extremely silly. I just feel that Flip Kick and Boost Kick are more imposing overall because I think that ZSS is a better character than Brawler.