Character Competitive Impressions

[David Viran]

I think its more because everyone has seen what the character can do, and there are more and more Brawlers popping up every week. At the very least I know Nick Riddle dropped ZSS for Brawler a couple weeks ago (at least in customs on) and beat MVD's Diddy to make it to grands against ESAM. (Where, to be fair, he got annihilated).

He didn't drop her to my knowledge. He still posts on the zss boards.

 

[Firefoxx]

He didn't drop her to my knowledge. He still posts on the zss boards.

At the very least, he didn't use ZSS at that tournament. He likely still plays her in customs off

 

[Bjurrse]

Im not sure how to rank brawler. Ever since i found out about miis, I decided to main brawler and gunner as a secondary.

They are so much fun. However, brawlers helicopterkick, which is an insane move, is a bit to central in his gameplan. It is really hard to get kills w/o it. But it is THE move that can make him top 5 w/o it he is a fast and nimble dude, who can't kill. I feel when everyone learns to stay away from the edges, his "op-ness" will deflate.

 

[NickRiddle]

At the very least, he didn't use ZSS at that tournament. He likely still plays her in customs off

I use both ZSS and Brawler in customs. I have been using mostly Brawler to get a better feel for the character, since I feel like my ZSS playstyle has stagnated into something I don't want. Brawler has taught me SO MUCH about ZSS it's crazy; I will be using her a ton at our EVO sponsorship tournament this Saturday.

 

[Hippieslayer]

This might be OT but are there any tourneys coming up today which one might want to keep an eye on?

 

[Firefoxx]

I use both ZSS and Brawler in customs. I have been using mostly Brawler to get a better feel for the character, since I feel like my ZSS playstyle has stagnated into something I don't want. Brawler has taught me SO MUCH about ZSS it's crazy; I will be using her a ton at our EVO sponsorship tournament this Saturday.

This is actually really good to hear, inspired ZSS play is quite enjoyable to watch

 

[Jigglymaster]

You have it completely backwards. One dude actually bothered to play this ridiculous character and already has tournament results. Imagine what is going to happen when he becomes popular and his meta explodes.

Yes, and that "one dude" as been devoting all his character practice to Mii brawler since the game's release even before he thought he was a good character. There are quite a few people who have played Mii Brawler and failed to win anything, hence why you don't hear about them. Also, tons of people lose against Mii Brawler simply because they lack the MU knowledge, if more people played the character, more people would have experience fighting against it and he wouldn't be nearly as good as people think he is now.

Video footage of other Mii Brawlers in tournament losing, both using TINY mii brawler mind you.

Also reposting this from another thread

Even easier to stop. Tiny Mii Brawler has less range and a worse grab range. Jabbing flat out stops him in his tracks and once you're passed 80% he's flat out pathetic bottom tier garbage, he has weaker moves than default with less range.

Let me state this again, the character has no air kill moves that don't send him into a helpless state, none of his grabs will kill you themselves and he has no grab follow-ups past 70%. His F-smash is a pile of garbage that hits on only frame 17 while having an insane amount of cool down. His U-smash is a weaker Fox u-smash with less range, and his d-smash is just weak.

As a Mii Brawler main you have to literally be ON POINT with getting the grab at just the right percent and then not screwing up your combo. Mii Brawler seems powerful because people don't realize how much of a small window he has to actually kill you early, but if you understand what percentage he needs you to be at, you can avoid him until he hits you with an air attack or something that puts you outside of the the % range he wants, then have fun because he's no longer killing you. Just shield a lot and bait out all the Up-B OoS he'll do since its his only semi-decent kill option at that point, if he grabs you, who cares? I already stated he can't kill you with a grab at this point.

Don't get me wrong, this character will DESTROY you if you don't know how to fight against it. But the moment you realize what his gameplan is and how easy it is to screw it up, it becomes a lot more manageable. Listen, just up until recently people are figuring out that DIing up is bad and Diing directly towards the stage horizontally is good. People were dying to Helicopter Kick FASTER due to BAD DI.

Have many people figured this out yet? No
Can Mii Brawler still be good if the player himself is good enough to get around these weaknesses? Yes

As a Mii Brawler main myself I've came across people who have understood my strategy well enough, they give me a lot of trouble.... so I understand my characters weaknesses. So I do whatever I can to counter-act them as well as come up with solutions when things don't go my way. It's what separates the best Mii Brawlers from the average ones.

 

[Trifroze]

You have it completely backwards. One dude actually bothered to play this ridiculous character and already has tournament results. Imagine what is going to happen when he becomes popular and his meta explodes.

What's probably going to happen is people learn to avoid and punish his up b downgrading him outside the perceived top 10.

 

[Vinnie]

In my mind, knowing that Villager already succeeds (especially in Japan) with customs off gives me very little reason for my perspective changing with that happening. I didn't really consider Captain Awesome "not playing" when he was up against others he defeated either, he had to change style once Vinnie started using gravity grenade.. basically (Will messaged him that coaching )

Btw Shaya, I switched from gravity grenade to regular grenade, as a correction.*

Also to the people who said Capt Awesum still was able to fight after his camping was broken down - he really wasn't. He basically got destroyed every time he had to come to me. The final game was a showcase of that, although it happened throughout the set. He only won when his camping worked. If I won the lead and he was ever forced to fight, he got destroyed.

Also, as a side note - I play villager and sheik as two of my favorite characters, and I believe that they have an even matchup in default singles (non-customs). When you add customs, custom villager wins. However, this is only if the villager knows how to fight. C.Awesum isn't a good reperesentation of the matchup. I think if Mr. R and Ganbaranai fought, in customs or non customs, it would be an extremely close match with little to no "standing on complete opposite sides of the stage". Villager has aggression tools in this MU that C.Awesum failed to display

Yes, and that "one dude" as been devoting all his character practice to Mii brawler since the game's release even before he thought he was a good character. There are quite a few people who have played Mii Brawler and failed to win anything, hence why you don't hear about them. Also, tons of people lose against Mii Brawler simply because they lack the MU knowledge, if more people played the character, more people would have experience fighting against it and he wouldn't be nearly as good as people think he is now.

Video footage of other Mii Brawlers in tournament losing, both using TINY mii brawler mind you.

Also reposting this from another thread

Don't lie dude, tiny mii brawler is the best character in the game by far. Don't use evidence of underdeveloped mii bralwers to make it look like it's not broken.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Don't lie dude, tiny mii brawler is the best character in the game by far. Don't use evidence of underdeveloped mii bralwers to make it look like it's not broken.

Im not lying. Did you not see my explaination in the quote below those videos? This one? Tell me, why do both ZeRo, Dabuz, and myself all believe he is not the best character in the game?


"Tiny Mii Brawler has less range and a worse grab range. Jabbing flat out stops him in his tracks and once you're passed 80% he's flat out pathetic bottom tier garbage, he has weaker moves than default with less range.

Let me state this again, the character has no air kill moves that don't send him into a helpless state, none of his grabs will kill you themselves and he has no grab follow-ups past 70%. His F-smash is a pile of garbage that hits on only frame 17 while having an insane amount of cool down. His U-smash is a weaker Fox u-smash with less range, and his d-smash is just weak.

As a Mii Brawler main you have to literally be ON POINT with getting the grab at just the right percent and then not screwing up your combo. Mii Brawler seems powerful because people don't realize how much of a small window he has to actually kill you early, but if you understand what percentage he needs you to be at, you can avoid him until he hits you with an air attack or something that puts you outside of the the % range he wants, then have fun because he's no longer killing you. Just shield a lot and bait out all the Up-B OoS he'll do since its his only semi-decent kill option at that point, if he grabs you, who cares? I already stated he can't kill you with a grab at this point.

Don't get me wrong, this character will DESTROY you if you don't know how to fight against it. But the moment you realize what his gameplan is and how easy it is to screw it up, it becomes a lot more manageable. Listen, just up until recently people are figuring out that DIing up is bad and Diing directly towards the stage horizontally is good. People were dying to Helicopter Kick FASTER due to BAD DI.

Have many people figured this out yet? No
Can Mii Brawler still be good if the player himself is good enough to get around these weaknesses? Yes

As a Mii Brawler main myself I've came across people who have understood my strategy well enough, they give me a lot of trouble.... so I understand my characters weaknesses. So I do whatever I can to counter-act them as well as come up with solutions when things don't go my way. It's what separates the best Mii Brawlers from the average ones."

 

[Vinnie]

Im not lying. Did you not see my explaination in the quote below those videos? This one? Tell me, why do both ZeRo, Dabuz, and myself all believe he is not the best character in the game?


"Tiny Mii Brawler has less range and a worse grab range. Jabbing flat out stops him in his tracks and once you're passed 80% he's flat out pathetic bottom tier garbage, he has weaker moves than default with less range.

Let me state this again, the character has no air kill moves that don't send him into a helpless state, none of his grabs will kill you themselves and he has no grab follow-ups past 70%. His F-smash is a pile of garbage that hits on only frame 17 while having an insane amount of cool down. His U-smash is a weaker Fox u-smash with less range, and his d-smash is just weak.

As a Mii Brawler main you have to literally be ON POINT with getting the grab at just the right percent and then not screwing up your combo. Mii Brawler seems powerful because people don't realize how much of a small window he has to actually kill you early, but if you understand what percentage he needs you to be at, you can avoid him until he hits you with an air attack or something that puts you outside of the the % range he wants, then have fun because he's no longer killing you. Just shield a lot and bait out all the Up-B OoS he'll do since its his only semi-decent kill option at that point, if he grabs you, who cares? I already stated he can't kill you with a grab at this point.

Don't get me wrong, this character will DESTROY you if you don't know how to fight against it. But the moment you realize what his gameplan is and how easy it is to screw it up, it becomes a lot more manageable. Listen, just up until recently people are figuring out that DIing up is bad and Diing directly towards the stage horizontally is good. People were dying to Helicopter Kick FASTER due to BAD DI.

Have many people figured this out yet? No
Can Mii Brawler still be good if the player himself is good enough to get around these weaknesses? Yes

As a Mii Brawler main myself I've came across people who have understood my strategy well enough, they give me a lot of trouble.... so I understand my characters weaknesses. So I do whatever I can to counter-act them as well as come up with solutions when things don't go my way. It's what separates the best Mii Brawlers from the average ones."

Tiny mii brawler has no drawbacks. He's like green shulk the whole time, with a super small hurtbox. He is like 1% weaker as he still kills at like 45 from a grab combo. His mobility is ridiculous and could time people out (but killing people at 40 is the optimal way of playing him). I literally just started using the character the other day and I 3-0'd raptor in tournament. Don't use footage of underdeveloped small mii brawlers to prove your point. He is by far the best character. (all my opinion, u have ur opinion, not stating mine as fact, just saying ur tactics of quoting videos of him losing to support your points is weak)

 

[busken]

Tiny mii brawler has no drawbacks. He's like green shulk the whole time, with a super small hurtbox. He is like 1% weaker as he still kills at like 45 from a grab combo. His mobility is ridiculous and could time people out (but killing people at 40 is the optimal way of playing him). I literally just started using the character the other day and I 3-0'd raptor in tournament. Don't use footage of underdeveloped small mii brawlers to prove your point. He is by far the best character. (all my opinion, u have ur opinion, not stating mine as fact, just saying ur tactics of quoting videos of him losing to support your points is weak)

Every character has a drawback. As good as MK was in brawl he was still light; a disadvantage. I'm not going to argue your opinion, but saying a character has 0 drawbacks is pretty blasphemous.

 

[Vinnie]

Every character has a drawback. As good as MK was in brawl he was still light; a disadvantage. I'm not going to argue your opinion, but saying a character has 0 drawbacks is pretty blasphemous.

So would somebody like to tell me a drawback that tiny mii brawler has?

A character in smash 4 usually has 2 or 3 of these 5 things. Mii brawler (and maybe pikachu) is the only character that has no drawback out of these 5.

-mobility
-strength
-small size
-weight
-comboability

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Sonic should definitely be top 5 over Luigi and Ness, although those characters are both likely top 10.

The only way sonic's kit would not be top 5 in this game is if his kill power, safety, or speed were significantly reduced. As it stands now Sonic strikes me as a character with no real weaknesses; or at least he has no weakness that can be reliably exploited due to his mobility and extremely low risk playstyle in general.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Tiny mii brawler has no drawbacks. He's like green shulk the whole time, with a super small hurtbox. He is like 1% weaker as he still kills at like 45 from a grab combo. His mobility is ridiculous and could time people out (but killing people at 40 is the optimal way of playing him). I literally just started using the character the other day and I 3-0'd raptor in tournament. Don't use footage of underdeveloped small mii brawlers to prove your point. He is by far the best character. (all my opinion, u have ur opinion, not stating mine as fact, just saying ur tactics of quoting videos of him losing to support your points is weak)

If you're killing ppl at 45% it means they have bad DI and got grabbed at the ledge which is their fault. You will never kill me at that percent I Garuntee you. His drawbacks are that he has **** range and you can easily out range him and win all trades. Heck even default size brawler counters this character as well as luigi, Rosalina, falcon, JIGGLYPUFF.

Do you have footage of u vs raptor? I'll gladly point out every bad decision he made because I'm 99% sure he doesn't understand the matchup. I'm sorry, but your argument of 3-0ing him is just as bad of an argument. Makes you sound hypocritical.

 

[Antonykun]

So would somebody like to tell me a drawback that tiny mii brawler has?

A character in smash 4 usually has 2 or 3 of these 5 things. Mii brawler (and maybe pikachu) is the only character that has no drawback out of these 5.

-mobility
-strength
-small size
-weight
-comboability

range can be a huge weakness and ik tiny brawler has that as his weakness idk how grave it is though

 

[Emblem Lord]

I really don't see how Marth and Lucina are supposed to be advantageous against Rosalina ... like, she doesn't even need Luma to shut them out, her standard kit is probably strong enough to deal with them. I also think both have exceptionally bad matchups against Falcon, Mewtwo and just about everybody else who is hard to approach. That includes a Luma-less Rosalina in my book as well.

Just incorrect. Her footsies just do not threaten them at all. They simply arent scared of her and she plays at the same footsie range they do.

The match vs CF is even.

They beat Mewtwo slightly.

rofl wtf. Low tier doesnt mean lose to everyone gheb.

 

[bc1910]

Sonic should definitely be top 5 over Luigi and Ness, although those characters are both likely top 10.

The only way sonic's kit would not be top 5 in this game is if his kill power, safety, or speed were significantly reduced. As it stands now Sonic strikes me as a character with no real weaknesses; or at least he has no weakness that can be reliably exploited due to his mobility and extremely low risk playstyle in general.

Sonic's main (and only big) weakness is that he's pretty **** at landing. Exploiting that is probably your best bet.

His kill potential is also probably average to below average now that back throw is weaker. It's certainly not BAD, but he's not as scary as some other top tiers in terms of getting the KO.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Mii Brawler feels like one of those characters where you can do well even if you're bad lol

 

[Jigglymaster]

Mii Brawler feels like one of those characters where you can do well even if you're bad lol

Compare him to umvc3 Hulk. A super strong and easy to use character that bodies ppl who don't respect him but the moment someone does he gets bodied instead. Respect mii brawler and then suddenly he can't do anything

 

[Emblem Lord]

Tiny Mii Brawler is number one and he does have flaws. Its simply that his flaws do not really mitigate his positives.

Compare him to umvc3 Hulk. A super strong and easy to use character that bodies ppl who don't respect him but the moment someone does he gets bodied instead. Respect mii brawler and then suddenly you can't do anything

You are ****ing drunk if you think hulk is comparable to mii brawler.

I am legitimately angry at you for making this comparison.

Like...are you ****ing serious?

 

[Jigglymaster]

You are ****ing drunk if you think hulk is comparable to mii brawler.

I am legitimately angry at you for making this comparison.

Like...are you ****ing serious?

Yes, I am 100% serious. Don't let brawler grab you and suddenly he can't do anything. Don't let hulk hit you with standing h and he can't do anything. Bait out oos helicopter kick like you would against standing h. Respect him and you win. Very much comparable. Anybody who thinks this character is the best in the game is just being a scrub IMO. Please put more time into understanding the character.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Compare him to umvc3 Hulk. A super strong and easy to use character that bodies ppl who don't respect him but the moment someone does he gets bodied instead. Respect mii brawler and then suddenly he can't do anything

I'm just basing it off of what options I see Mii brawlers take and still do well even if they're making bad ones. It's like how most Diddy players play mindlessly fishing for grabs with rolls but they can still do well.

Edit: also lol at "don't get grabbed".

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Sonic's main (and only big) weakness is that he's pretty **** at landing. Exploiting that is probably your best bet.

His kill potential is also probably average to below average now that back throw is weaker. It's certainly not BAD, but he's not as scary as some other top tiers in terms of getting the KO.

I suppose, but the only situation where he has to land from up high is when you've already broken through his neutral and he escapes with up-b. And this only happens if you can make a pretty real read, at least against good Sonics. I don't really feel that there is a reliable way to put him into that position to the point where i wouldn't call it a major weakness.

 

[Smog Frog]

bruh... has sooo many setups into copter kick. dtilt, uair, bair, fair, dthrow...and many of these combo into each other so its not uncommon to be able to string together a ridiculous 40% combo. see beyond dthrow and you realize just how many things setup into the copter kick. land with a uair. cross up with a bair. space a ff fair. there's so many more ways to get the up b beyond dthrow.

 

[Spinosaurus]

You can block Hulk's stand H. You can't block a grab.

 

[Blobface]

bruh... has sooo many setups into copter kick. dtilt, uair, bair, fair, dthrow...and many of these combo into each other so its not uncommon to be able to string together a ridiculous 40% combo. see beyond dthrow and you realize just how many things setup into the copter kick. land with a uair. cross up with a bair. space a ff fair. there's so many more ways to get the up b beyond dthrow.

Dash Grab is generally the most notable though, since he slides halfway across the stage when he does it, usually putting him near the ledge where Helicopter kick is at it's deadliest. While those do set up for Helicopter Kick, they don't set up his stage position.

 

[Jigglymaster]

You can block Hulk's stand H. You can't block a grab.

You jab to block grabs.

 

[David Viran]

It's not oh don't get grabbed it's more like don't get grabbed near the ledge which is a lot more manageable. After 70% just like @ Jigglymaster said he doesn't have reliable set ups to hk so he going to struggle hard for the kill.

 

[Asdioh]

Apparently there are a bunch of Brawler mains suddenly that know more than Puffster, that's interesting.
Also Diddy Kong's still better

 

[thehard]

Surprise surprise, few have experience against the Miis + Smash 4 characters are generally easy to pick up. You can be initially successful with most characters this way. But when the gimmicks are exposed and you're playing at a high level, well...

 

[Luco]

You jab to block grabs.

I've been agree-ing with you up to here, but I feel like most attacks outside of grabbing will beat jab so trying to jab in that situation is somewhat impractical. You might be able to get away with a retreating aerial though maybe. It's not like most of us haven't had to play the 'don't get grabbed game' before.

I agree with Viran though, it's far more about where you're getting grabbed as opposed to the fact that the grab itself is scary - plenty of characters have insane grab followups ranging from mid 20% combos to Luigi levels of 40/50%, that's nothing new - and sure, Brawler has the mobility some of these characters don't but I'm not even sure his combos are guaranteed and once you're past certain percentages then they're no longer relevant. That's a big deal to me. It's not even about avoiding the grab, it's about avoiding the grab between like 50-70% before the helicopter kick combo stops working. Ma Gadol balagan, ani omer ze-beseder ("What a mess, I say it's fine") and this is an over-reaction.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I've been agree-ing with you up to here, but I feel like most attacks outside of grabbing will beat jab so trying to jab in that situation is somewhat impractical. You might be able to get away with a retreating aerial though maybe. It's not like most of us haven't had to play the 'don't get grabbed game' before.

I agree with Viran though, it's far more about where you're getting grabbed as opposed to the fact that the grab itself is scary - plenty of characters have insane grab followups ranging from mid 20% combos to Luigi levels of 40/50%, that's nothing new - and sure, Brawler has the mobility some of these characters don't but I'm not even sure his combos are guaranteed and once you're past certain percentages then they're no longer relevant. That's a big deal to me. It's not even about avoiding the grab, it's about avoiding the grab between like 50-70% before the helicopter kick combo stops working. Ma Gadol balagan, ani omer ze-beseder ("What a mess, I say it's fine") and this is an over-reaction.

Jabbing is your fastest attack and it beats the dash grab, if they sidestep just jab again. Players like angel Cortes who have used this strat on me get impressive results and when I do t to other brawlers they suddenly can't grab me anymore.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yes, I am 100% serious. Don't let brawler grab you and suddenly he can't do anything. Don't let hulk hit you with standing h and he can't do anything. Bait out oos helicopter kick like you would against standing h. Respect him and you win. Very much comparable. Anybody who thinks this character is the best in the game is just being a scrub IMO. Please put more time into understanding the character.

Hulk has to outfight people and make correct reads. He is 100% footsie based. He has to hit a button when he thinks you will. He doesnt have high mobility, great punishes, or a strong defensive option.

Brawler is closer to wesker. A character that you can put little work in and see great results. Def a top tier but not unstoppable and has clear weaknesses.

Puffster may know more about Brawler then me.

He for damn sure doesnt know more about UMvC3 then me. The comparison to Hulk was pure jokes. I see where he was coming from, but no. Just no. Char designs are just so different.

 

[Ffamran]

So, apparently Wario and Pac-Man share the distinction of having the same grab speed - not same frame grab speed, but it's the same for all of them - for their standing, dash, and pivot grabs. For Pac-Man, okay, fine, but Wario? That means he has the fastest dash and pivot grabs! There's never a reason for him to use a standing grab unless, well, he's standing right next to you since he can just rush in and grab without dealing with increased startup like everyone else except for Greninja and Pac-Man. Oh, and apparently his Up Smash - surprise, surprise - and his Utilt are also partially invincible. Then there's his Dtilt, Bite, and Rose Waft shenanigans... Why is he not being used a lot, again?

 

[TriTails]

Guys.

Are we talking about AHM REALLY FEELING IT Shulk or THE INCREDIBLE HULK!?!?!?

 

[Esquire]

Oh, a Tiny Mii Brawler discussion? Don't mind if I do!

Video footage of other Mii Brawlers in tournament losing, both using TINY mii brawler mind you.

...and here I was thinking that 13th at my first offline Smash 4 tournament was pretty good. ;_; Anyways...

Now, I've been reading the arguments on both sides, and quite frankly...each side is right on some accounts and misguided on others. I'm actually not sure where to start response-wise, so I think I'm just going to make general statements and let you sort through them to match your points!

Let's start with Tiny Brawler's weaknesses, since that seems to be the big contention point in the thread at the moment. Tiny Brawler does have weaknesses, even though its strengths are phenomenal. Reach has been pointed out time and time again, and it's a huge Achilles' Heel for Tiny Brawler. Characters with good disjoints will be able to play a mean zoning game against Tiny Mii Brawler. I really can't think of a character with worse reach at the moment, maybe WFT? (Although some of those issues are hitbox related and not necessarily reach.) However, reach was /always/ a weakness, and anyone who either plays as or has played against a competent Tiny Brawler (or hell, has even watched a competent Tiny Brawler) could have told you that. Besides reach, Tiny Brawler also struggles with pretty much every weaknesses Average Brawler has as well: lack of reliable kill options outside of UpB, average individual damage output (mitigated by combo potential and UpB), average recovery (incredible horizontal, below average vertical outside of second jump), grab range (but awesome dash/pivot grab). Everyone is aware, however, of the /bonkers/ mobility Tiny Brawler possesses.

To make a short list, here's what Tiny Brawler has over Average Brawler:

+ Has more (re: different) combo opportunities than Average Brawler, can connect off of more moves (including Dash Attack).
+ Has an easier time getting characters to the ledge thanks to true FAir combo strings, which push opponents even further horizontally.
+ Better mobility, probably the best in the game combination-wise.
+ Better vertical recovery, thanks to a higher second jump.
+ Smaller size, meaning harder to hit.
+ Better endlag and landing lag, although it's not like Average Brawler's move recovery is bad.

And another short list, what Average Brawler has over Tiny Brawler:

+ Has simpler, but more consistent, combo opportunities, can guarantee more basic combos (DThrow -> HK) thanks to increased hitstun.
+ Greater reach. This is a huge plus, probably worth two "+" marks. Competes better against certain characters because of it.
+ Does ~1% more damage and ~1% more knockback on moves. This really isn't that big of a deal...but it's still an advantage!

You would think, naturally, "6>3/4 Esquire, so Tiny Brawler is superior!". That's not really the case, however, since reach is a huge deal against some characters. The difference between Tiny Brawler's BAir and Average Brawler's BAir reach-wise is the difference between Palutena's BAir and Falco's BAir reach-wise. Pretty important, especially against the likes of Mario, Diddy Kong, and a decent number of other characters. You're not going to be spaced out as hard, simple as that.

However, some of the characters mentioned in this thread that do well against Tiny Brawler...aren't really so. I've never really had issues with characters like Jigglypuff or Luigi. Characters like Captain Falcon are ebb-and-flow MU's for Tiny Brawler, since Captain Falcon has a really poor defensive game that leads to a ton of juggle opportunities and allows Tiny Brawler to KO Falcon even at higher percentages (of Falcon). Even though I've both beaten and lost to Rosalinas in tournament, I'm not convinced that it's a bad MU for Tiny Brawler thanks to his mobility, amazing NAir which can interrupt Luma, and UpB options that kill extremely early (if it wasn't for OIP still being in the game but being ineffective [as opposed to it just being taken straight out], I'd have more kills against Rosalinas. That's a personal issue, not a Brawler issue.). There are better examples of characters (especially with Customs) that fare decently against both Average and Tiny Brawler, but I'll refrain from commenting about them until after EVO.

This is great and all, but what does it all mean?

You might want to sit down for this one: for all of their similarities, Average Brawler and Tiny Brawler have different MU spreads than one another. So in essence, the best Mii Brawler players are going to use both Average and Tiny Brawler to their advantage, depending on who they face. If you're looking for specific characters as to which character does well against specific characters, I could probably go on, but I'd rather wait for the Custom metagame to develop (especially with EVO around the corner) before making concrete suggestions. Examples, though: I personally think Tiny Brawler handles characters like Sheik and Sonic better than Average Brawler, but Average Brawler probably has the advantage against characters like Diddy Kong and Mario. Before I'm bombarded with "WELL I WENT TO XANADU AND FOUGHT X AND YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED X SO YOU'RE NOT QUALIFIED", I've played with Tiny Brawler for almost three months now and have entered both online and offline tournaments with him, so I'm speaking from both a personal understanding of the character and a practical understanding. One thing's for sure, for all the conjecture about Mii Brawler in this thread, I'm excited to see how this all actually plays out at EVO!

 

[Luco]

So, apparently Wario and Pac-Man share the distinction of having the same grab speed - not same frame grab speed, but it's the same for all of them - for their standing, dash, and pivot grabs. For Pac-Man, okay, fine, but Wario? That means he has the fastest dash and pivot grabs! There's never a reason for him to use a standing grab unless, well, he's standing right next to you since he can just rush in and grab without dealing with increased startup like everyone else except for Greninja and Pac-Man. Oh, and apparently his Up Smash - surprise, surprise - and his Utilt are also partially invincible. Then there's his Dtilt, Bite, and Rose Waft shenanigans... Why is he not being used a lot, again?

Because he's fat, greedy and has a funny nose.

I'm only semi-kidding. I really didn't want to use Wario when I was younger.

 

[Spinosaurus]

So, apparently Wario and Pac-Man share the distinction of having the same grab speed - not same frame grab speed, but it's the same for all of them - for their standing, dash, and pivot grabs. For Pac-Man, okay, fine, but Wario? That means he has the fastest dash and pivot grabs! There's never a reason for him to use a standing grab unless, well, he's standing right next to you since he can just rush in and grab without dealing with increased startup like everyone else except for Greninja and Pac-Man. Oh, and apparently his Up Smash - surprise, surprise - and his Utilt are also partially invincible. Then there's his Dtilt, Bite, and Rose Waft shenanigans... Why is he not being used a lot, again?

He's actually getting more use now I noticed. Boss picked him up I believe.

Btw you forgot godly bike ledgeguards.

 

[Ffamran]

He's actually getting more use now I noticed.

Btw you forgot godly bike ledgeguards.

Speedy Bike is stupid as an edgeguard, but it make sense. I mean, how would it feel like to get run over by a bike? Speaking of which, does his Bike have a HP like Luma and if so, how much? I was able to destroy Wario's default Bike with Falco's Bair which does 13% if clean and even Ftilt which does 9%. Then again, I hit Wario at the same time I hit the Bike, so I don't really know. Also, Wario's Dair is annoying.