Character Competitive Impressions

[Jaguar360]

Well everyone I managed to get the results of the monthly voted tier list! This month things went down a bit differently to try and provide some more accuracy (based on feedback). Players were able to rank 1-14 this month, and each number was associated with a general tier on the list. Each area with the letters were also given some definitions to try and keep things more accurate as well:

(S) - Best For Tournament Play
(A) - Solo Tournament Viable
(B) - Tournament Viable With Secondaries
(C) - Niche Use
(D) - Not Tournament Viable
(F) - Never Use

Below I do have splits into + and - tiers, and while I don't think they need to be split up THAT much, that's what the numbers showed in comparison for the vote, so just consider them the characters people think are a bit better or worse than the others in their respective categories.

I also included some other questions this month in the miscellaneous category that have been suggested a bunch in the poll feedback section which should be a bit interesting. So with patch 1.0.6 and Mewtwo recently added to the mix, let's see what the average Smash thinks of the new list! Remember this assumes that customs are off:

Monthly /r/smashbros Tier List Results May 2015​

(S) (13.35)
(A+) (12.7) - (12.6) - (12.32) - (12.19)
(A) (11.9) - (11.84) - (11.59) - (11.55) - (11.15)
(A-) / (Tie: 10.92) - (10.81) - (10.59)
(B+) (9.98) - (9.85) - (9.77) - (9.65) - (9.63) - (9.6) - (9.55) - (9.36) - (9.19)
(B) (8.93) - (8.84) - (8.8) - (8.69) - (8.64) - (8)
(B-) (7.73) - (7.72) - (7.69) - (7.56) - (7.44) - (7.4) - (7.32) - (7.21)
(C+) (6.84) - (6.69) - (6.65) - (6.63) - (6.34) - (6.26) - (6.22) (6.17) - (6.05)
(C) (5.96) - (5.67) - (5.64) - (5.54) - (5.29)
(C-) (4.79)

Here Is The April Tier List For Those Who Want To Compare
---​

Here are the Miscellaneous Questions!​

Spoiler

Which character do you think has the most hidden potential?
1.
2.
3. /

Which character do you think is the most overrated?

1.
2. /
3.

Which character do you think is easiest to use?

1.
2.
3.

Which character do you think is hardest to use?

1.
2.
3. /

Which character do you hate to fight the most?

1.
2.
3. /

Which character do you love to fight the most?

1.
2.
3. /

Which character do you play as as most?

1.
2.
3.

What about the matchup chart?​

Well unfortunately there were just a lot of characters that didn't get any responses other than pure "I Don't Know". While at least it's good to know folks were trying to be honest, but there wasn't enough to fill in a full matchup chart. I've got plans to try to split up the poll a bunch and try to hit up all characters boards as well as reddit for the next attempt. Yes the results may be dubious, but at least it should be interesting to look at.

So here you go everyone, what do you all think?​

The lists seem to be getting more "accurate". My votes weren't counted on this one because I took too long, but it probably wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

Charizard definitely isn't the worst and is probably B- tier thanks to his great survivability, great power, great grab, kill throw, Rock Smash, good OoS option in Fly, fast dash speed and good range on his attacks. People are probably too influenced by Eventhubs or something.

Nothing else is glaringly wrong though. DK and Meta Knight seem a bit underrated and D3 seems pretty overrated, but not bad apart from those imo.

 

[bc1910]

In 99% of cases, IASA is just an over-complicated way of talking about an attack's ending lag. To the best of my knowledge the term doesn't even exist in the community of any other fighter because it just refers to ending lag, or lack thereof.

Falcon can be really obnoxious. Midrange fishing, tele-dashgrab, a massively skewed power-speed ratio supposedly balanced by a poor recovery but his recovery isn't THAT poor any more because of the ledge mechanics.

But to be honest FG will make you hate playing against Falcon more than anything. Not only do half the players on there use him, most of them are so laggy that you can't punish them for throwing out moves and you're more likely to get smacked by a ton of attacks even though you know they're coming because it's Falcon and they're really fast and powerful and bleh. So I guess I'm saying lag makes Falcon even more obnoxious than he can be offline.

Guys we need to stop assuming the tier list is invalidated by the fact it's made by a community. We all know the list wasn't meant to be anything official and was merely meant to gauge public opinion. And from the sounds of it... the community is learning. I think we'd be more productive if we at least tried to engage with these lists.

I agree that this list looks better than the others, but I wanted to point out we don't assume this list is invalid because it's made by a community (at least I don't). I'm sure a community list put together by Smashboards regulars would be fine. The problem with this list is mostly that in the past, it has just been a popularity contest clearly put together by voters who either don't understand the concept of a tier list or don't care. So you get stupid placements like Falcon being #1, and I've seen Mii Brawler near the bottom before. This list at least shows a little bit of improvement though.

 

[LiteralGrill]

The lists seem to be getting more "accurate". My votes weren't counted on this one because I took too long, but it probably wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

I'm glad these are getting better, I really keep trying to find ways to make them better while accounting for the fact that they are just randomly voted on by people.

I'd be curious to see how it would compare to a similar poll done here on Smashboards (limited to this thread maybe) but from what I get folks aren't much interested in it.

 

[ElectricBlade]

I'm glad these are getting better, I really keep trying to find ways to make them better while accounting for the fact that they are just randomly voted on by people.

I'd be curious to see how it would compare to a similar poll done here on Smashboards (limited to this thread maybe) but from what I get folks aren't much interested in it.

Why aren't many people interested to make a tier list on here?

 

[Firefoxx]

Why aren't many people interested to make a tier list on here?

Patch dropped a few weeks ago and we are still feeling things out.

Still, it could be fun/interesting to do one. and its not like people in this thread haven't made tier lists before.

 

[deepseadiva]

Why aren't many people interested to make a tier list on here?

They're not very useful really.

 

[wedl!!]

http://i.imgur.com/iOkxz0H.png

speaking of eventhubs...

(sorry if you can't really read my mouse handwriting)

 

[MrMajora]

http://i.imgur.com/iOkxz0H.png
speaking of eventhubs...

(sorry if you can't really read my mouse handwriting)

Lol Wario at 49, my sides. and Luigi at 28, RIP

 

[John12346]

That tier list(from SmashCapps) looks nice, but we should totally get on figuring out what a customs tier list would look like, for sure. Would a bottom tier/C tier even exist in that case?

 

[Firefoxx]

ZeRo vs Mr ConCon is up on Youtube btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz06TmwFHAw

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Well everyone I managed to get the results of the monthly voted tier list! This month things went down a bit differently to try and provide some more accuracy (based on feedback). Players were able to rank 1-14 this month, and each number was associated with a general tier on the list. Each area with the letters were also given some definitions to try and keep things more accurate as well:

(S) - Best For Tournament Play
(A) - Solo Tournament Viable
(B) - Tournament Viable With Secondaries
(C) - Niche Use
(D) - Not Tournament Viable
(F) - Never Use

Below I do have splits into + and - tiers, and while I don't think they need to be split up THAT much, that's what the numbers showed in comparison for the vote, so just consider them the characters people think are a bit better or worse than the others in their respective categories.

I also included some other questions this month in the miscellaneous category that have been suggested a bunch in the poll feedback section which should be a bit interesting. So with patch 1.0.6 and Mewtwo recently added to the mix, let's see what the average Smash thinks of the new list! Remember this assumes that customs are off:

Monthly /r/smashbros Tier List Results May 2015​

(S) (13.35)
(A+) (12.7) - (12.6) - (12.32) - (12.19)
(A) (11.9) - (11.84) - (11.59) - (11.55) - (11.15)
(A-) / (Tie: 10.92) - (10.81) - (10.59)
(B+) (9.98) - (9.85) - (9.77) - (9.65) - (9.63) - (9.6) - (9.55) - (9.36) - (9.19)
(B) (8.93) - (8.84) - (8.8) - (8.69) - (8.64) - (8)
(B-) (7.73) - (7.72) - (7.69) - (7.56) - (7.44) - (7.4) - (7.32) - (7.21)
(C+) (6.84) - (6.69) - (6.65) - (6.63) - (6.34) - (6.26) - (6.22) (6.17) - (6.05)
(C) (5.96) - (5.67) - (5.64) - (5.54) - (5.29)
(C-) (4.79)

Here Is The April Tier List For Those Who Want To Compare
---​

Here are the Miscellaneous Questions!​

Spoiler

Which character do you think has the most hidden potential?
1.
2.
3. /

Which character do you think is the most overrated?

1.
2. /
3.

Which character do you think is easiest to use?

1.
2.
3.

Which character do you think is hardest to use?

1.
2.
3. /

Which character do you hate to fight the most?

1.
2.
3. /

Which character do you love to fight the most?

1.
2.
3. /

Which character do you play as as most?

1.
2.
3.

What about the matchup chart?​

Well unfortunately there were just a lot of characters that didn't get any responses other than pure "I Don't Know". While at least it's good to know folks were trying to be honest, but there wasn't enough to fill in a full matchup chart. I've got plans to try to split up the poll a bunch and try to hit up all characters boards as well as reddit for the next attempt. Yes the results may be dubious, but at least it should be interesting to look at.

So here you go everyone, what do you all think?​

Not terrible but a few nitpicks.

is a bit too high, and he's also not easy to play anymore at least against people who actually know the matchup. Diddy has to work much, much harder than before to get to kill range and land his finisher and again, if you just take away his banana he has no setups to do this. Prolly still top 5 though. Also, interesting that he's being called the most overrated and #2 by the same poll.

is too low. I'm feeling like a broken record at this point but he's at least top 3. He has no representation at the top level because its just really hard to play him to his full potential, much harder than characters like , , and .

and to a certain extent are too low.

and are too low.

has issues but he is not the worst character with no customs. Like, at all.

, , and are too low, and about 90% of the B-tiers look like it was just "I don't know jack about this character, might as well say average."

We don't need so many separations in tiers even if its just B+, B, B- kind of separations. The game is better balanced than that and those separations are pretty pointless in my mind.

But getting better i suppose.

 

[Thinkaman]

Monthly /r/smashbros Tier List Results May 2015​

(S) (13.35)
(A+) (12.7) - (12.6) - (12.32) - (12.19)
(A) (11.9) - (11.84) - (11.59) - (11.55) - (11.15)
(A-) / (Tie: 10.92) - (10.81) - (10.59)
(B+) (9.98) - (9.85) - (9.77) - (9.65) - (9.63) - (9.6) - (9.55) - (9.36) - (9.19)
(B) (8.93) - (8.84) - (8.8) - (8.69) - (8.64) - (8)
(B-) (7.73) - (7.72) - (7.69) - (7.56) - (7.44) - (7.4) - (7.32) - (7.21)
(C+) (6.84) - (6.69) - (6.65) - (6.63) - (6.34) - (6.26) - (6.22) (6.17) - (6.05)
(C) (5.96) - (5.67) - (5.64) - (5.54) - (5.29)
(C-) (4.79)

I wanted to join the voices saying that this list is shockingly good.

I'd bump Wario, Meta Knight, Ganon, DK, Ike, Gunner, and Charizard up a tad. (And Dark Pit, duh) I'd also bump Lucario, Bowser, Mewtwo, and maybe Duck Hunt and DDD down a tad. (And maybe Zelda?)

But no one is WAY off, like some eventhubs voted list. And some would dispute a couple of my statements.

That tier list(from SmashCapps) looks nice, but we should totally get on figuring out what a customs tier list would look like, for sure. Would a bottom tier/C tier even exist in that case?

Several characters may or may not move "up" a single factional-tier. (Pikachu, Fox, Villager, ROB, Bowser Jr, Kirby, Ike, Falco, and Mac are pretty safe bets.)

No one would move down nominally, but a few might move down relatively. (Raw rankings--like how Pac-Man gets "better" in the grand scheme of things and might even move up a "tier", but probably has ~5 characters "pass" him.)

Beyond that I'd say:
from C+ to A-
from C to B+
from B- to A-
from B- to B+
from B- to B+
from C+ to B
from C to B-
from C to B-

 

[ParanoidDrone]

In 99% of cases, IASA is just an over-complicated way of talking about an attack's ending lag. To the best of my knowledge the term doesn't even exist in the community of any other fighter because it just refers to ending lag, or lack thereof.

Serious question, does the concept of "IASA frames" as "ability to act out of animations earlier than you'd expect" even exist in 2D fighters? Like, if I was playing Street Fighter and whiffed a standing h.P or something, would I be able to start blocking before my character returned to their idle stance?

(Obviously every 2D fighter ever lets you cancel moves early on hit for combo and pressure purposes.)

 

[Spinosaurus]

http://i.imgur.com/iOkxz0H.png
speaking of eventhubs...

(sorry if you can't really read my mouse handwriting)

I refuse to believe Wario is dead last even in a community voted tier list.

I'll just pass it off as them hating Wario more than anything.

 

[wedl!!]

I refuse to believe Wario is dead last even in a community voted tier list.

I'll just pass it off as them hating Wario more than anything.

im pretty sure in the duration of my "social experiment" of looking at eventhubs every few days wario's never been out of bottom 20

 

[ElectricBlade]

http://i.imgur.com/iOkxz0H.png
speaking of eventhubs...

(sorry if you can't really read my mouse handwriting)

I've been following eventhubs since it started its Smash 4 tier list, its been stupider then that before. Though thats honestly a close number 1, i'll assume there troll votes

( I remember when Luigi was considered on of the worst characters in the game..)

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Serious question, does the concept of "IASA frames" as "ability to act out of animations earlier than you'd expect" even exist in 2D fighters? Like, if I was playing Street Fighter and whiffed a standing h.P or something, would I be able to start blocking before my character returned to their idle stance?

(Obviously every 2D fighter ever lets you cancel moves early on hit for combo and pressure purposes.)

That isn't something that exists in SF at least AFAIK.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Serious question, does the concept of "IASA frames" as "ability to act out of animations earlier than you'd expect" even exist in 2D fighters? Like, if I was playing Street Fighter and whiffed a standing h.P or something, would I be able to start blocking before my character returned to their idle stance?

(Obviously every 2D fighter ever lets you cancel moves early on hit for combo and pressure purposes.)

That isn't something that exists in SF at least AFAIK.

You mean something like this?

 

[bc1910]

Serious question, does the concept of "IASA frames" as "ability to act out of animations earlier than you'd expect" even exist in 2D fighters? Like, if I was playing Street Fighter and whiffed a standing h.P or something, would I be able to start blocking before my character returned to their idle stance?

(Obviously every 2D fighter ever lets you cancel moves early on hit for combo and pressure purposes.)

If a move allows you to block or do anything else before you return to your idle stance, it has "IASA frames". Almost every attack allows you to do something before your character returns to their idle stance so almost every attack technically has some kind of "IASA" but it's a needlessly overcomplicated concept that describes simple ending lag.

Ending lag does not mean how long it takes your character to return to idle after attacking, it means how long your character has to wait before they can do something else after their attack, even if they haven't returned to idle stance; the exact same thing as IASA.

 

[Radical Larry]

vs MU
I think it's quite even, to be honest. Both have absurdly fast attacks and both can rack up heavy damage into a KO if they wanted to. While Sheik has her needles, Ganondorf has his WizKick and aerial WizKick, the latter of which can prove deadly against a Sheik using an impromptu U-Air, since the Mix-Up will hit Sheik. Both have some very great grab games that give off a lot of reward, and both have something that balance one another out. Sheik has a great recovery, but let's remember that you should never recover above Ganondorf or whiff a Bouncing Fish in front of him; U-Smash and U-Tilt will get you, respectively.

So honestly, I think it's a 50:50 MU for both; they both just seem to do something to balance the other out. What do you guys think about their MU?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

vs MU
I think it's quite even, to be honest. Both have absurdly fast attacks and both can rack up heavy damage into a KO if they wanted to. While Sheik has her needles, Ganondorf has his WizKick and aerial WizKick, the latter of which can prove deadly against a Sheik using an impromptu U-Air, since the Mix-Up will hit Sheik. Both have some very great grab games that give off a lot of reward, and both have something that balance one another out. Sheik has a great recovery, but let's remember that you should never recover above Ganondorf or whiff a Bouncing Fish in front of him; U-Smash and U-Tilt will get you, respectively.

So honestly, I think it's a 50:50 MU for both; they both just seem to do something to balance the other out. What do you guys think about their MU?

If this was Zeldawful, I would be inclined to agree with you.


But freaking Sheik? Nah nah nah m8.

 

[adom4]

vs MU
I think it's quite even, to be honest. Both have absurdly fast attacks and both can rack up heavy damage into a KO if they wanted to. While Sheik has her needles, Ganondorf has his WizKick and aerial WizKick, the latter of which can prove deadly against a Sheik using an impromptu U-Air, since the Mix-Up will hit Sheik. Both have some very great grab games that give off a lot of reward, and both have something that balance one another out. Sheik has a great recovery, but let's remember that you should never recover above Ganondorf or whiff a Bouncing Fish in front of him; U-Smash and U-Tilt will get you, respectively.

So honestly, I think it's a 50:50 MU for both; they both just seem to do something to balance the other out. What do you guys think about their MU?

No. just no.

 

[Radical Larry]

If this was Zeldawful, I would be inclined to agree with you.


But freaking Sheik? Nah nah nah m8.

Well, I did make a horrid argument (thanks many conversations over the internet) about it. I admit that it was not such a valid argument as people would think. But what do you think Sheik has against Ganondorf that may help me and/or change my mind about the MU?

 

[adom4]

Well, I did make a horrid argument (thanks many conversations over the internet) about it. I admit that it was not such a valid argument as people would think. But what do you think Sheik has against Ganondorf that may help me and/or change my mind about the MU?

Ganon has barely any way to punish Sheik, she has ridiculous safety while Ganondorf struggles to get any hits in.

 

[Spinosaurus]

What kind of Sheik would get hit by U-Tilt?

 

[wedl!!]

oh god @ Radical Larry

i'm calling the nice people at the asylum now

 

[Radical Larry]

oh god @ Radical Larry

i'm calling the nice people at the asylum now

I just admitted it was a mistake; what else do you need?
(Yes, most of my posts aren't meant to be taken seriously, but when the serious ones come, you can see them.)

 

[Shaya]

Ganon can trade with Sheik favourably, that's a bonus. But like many others, once he's in shield it's basically over.
Ensuring Ganon can stay in neutral while slowly moving through needles and trying to take stage positional advantage is what he does. He gets a dash attack or down tilt and sheik takes like 40-60%. One back air trade at around that point and it's Sheik's stock.

He's definitely cruising for a bruising the entire time he plays against Sheik. But it's still the best Ganon:Sheik match up (for Ganon) to exist in any game thus far.
When Sheik decides not to fight, it's still not -that- bad for him, but he won't likely ever be able to overcome a stock deficit in any case. If he gets taken off stage it's likely over.


Also talking about for glory and/or captain falcon...
How is he not the campiest character you EVER play on it? Like... maybe the average Samus is campier... but any competent cancer player on Wifi is going to make a match as Falcon last 4-5 minutes if you actually know how to deal with the "obvious" dash ins. Hurr falcon dashes forward and back rolls until you throw out something that he can still punish with a dash in, then once you're in the air he'll charge a smash attack near your landing or back roll again, rinse and repeat. Oh and if you use a character that has landing options/good spacing tools to punish, he'll just start jabbing instead, then you have no way whatsoever to deal with it with any sort of delay.
Captain Falcon is a disgusting character and as long as Smash 4 persists, the greater the sway of "meme hero" will turn into "scorn of all, wish he was deleted from the game". I don't personally know ANYONE who enjoys playing against Falcon offline or online. His list of cancerous binary tools go well beyond anyone else. Perhaps this is Sakurai's intentions to kill any franchise he doesn't want coming back... he did it with Ice Climbers, now it's Falcon's turn.

 

[irokex13]

vs MU
I think it's quite even, to be honest. Both have absurdly fast attacks and both can rack up heavy damage into a KO if they wanted to. While Sheik has her needles, Ganondorf has his WizKick and aerial WizKick, the latter of which can prove deadly against a Sheik using an impromptu U-Air, since the Mix-Up will hit Sheik. Both have some very great grab games that give off a lot of reward, and both have something that balance one another out. Sheik has a great recovery, but let's remember that you should never recover above Ganondorf or whiff a Bouncing Fish in front of him; U-Smash and U-Tilt will get you, respectively.

So honestly, I think it's a 50:50 MU for both; they both just seem to do something to balance the other out. What do you guys think about their MU?

I know you think this is a joke, but please stop spreading misinformation. Earlier you made a comment about his up smash having extremely fast startup, but it doesn't. Like, at all. The ending lag is very quick, but that move has a whopping 21 frame startup time, making it one of the slowest smash attacks in the game. His down B also has 16 frames of startup, meaning that all of Sheik's aerial attacks outspeed it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well everyone I managed to get the results of the monthly voted tier list! This month things went down a bit differently to try and provide some more accuracy (based on feedback). Players were able to rank 1-14 this month, and each number was associated with a general tier on the list. Each area with the letters were also given some definitions to try and keep things more accurate as well:

(S) - Best For Tournament Play
(A) - Solo Tournament Viable
(B) - Tournament Viable With Secondaries
(C) - Niche Use
(D) - Not Tournament Viable
(F) - Never Use

Below I do have splits into + and - tiers, and while I don't think they need to be split up THAT much, that's what the numbers showed in comparison for the vote, so just consider them the characters people think are a bit better or worse than the others in their respective categories.

I also included some other questions this month in the miscellaneous category that have been suggested a bunch in the poll feedback section which should be a bit interesting. So with patch 1.0.6 and Mewtwo recently added to the mix, let's see what the average Smash thinks of the new list! Remember this assumes that customs are off:

Monthly /r/smashbros Tier List Results May 2015​

(S) (13.35)
(A+) (12.7) - (12.6) - (12.32) - (12.19)
(A) (11.9) - (11.84) - (11.59) - (11.55) - (11.15)
(A-) / (Tie: 10.92) - (10.81) - (10.59)
(B+) (9.98) - (9.85) - (9.77) - (9.65) - (9.63) - (9.6) - (9.55) - (9.36) - (9.19)
(B) (8.93) - (8.84) - (8.8) - (8.69) - (8.64) - (8)
(B-) (7.73) - (7.72) - (7.69) - (7.56) - (7.44) - (7.4) - (7.32) - (7.21)
(C+) (6.84) - (6.69) - (6.65) - (6.63) - (6.34) - (6.26) - (6.22) (6.17) - (6.05)
(C) (5.96) - (5.67) - (5.64) - (5.54) - (5.29)
(C-) (4.79)

Oh my god... It's just so bad. I'm surprised people are saying this one is good when it's no better than the ones previously.

Bump Falcon up a tier (or two)
Why is DEFAULT Mii Brawler so high?
ROB too high
Olimar is not almost as good as Lucario
Dark Pit needs to be directly next to Pit seeing as they're literally 99% the same
WHY MEWTWO UP HERE, that character is gutter trash
Link is not on the same level as Toon Link
Bowser Jr. is not on the same level as Bowser
Kirby is not better than Marth... or like, anyone below him really
Why is Ganondorf not bottom tier?
Why is Little Mac this low?
Why is Lucina an entire tier below Marth?
Why is Zelda not the worst character in the game?
and lastly

How the **** did Charizard earn "worst character in the game" smh, that title goes to either Swordspider or Zelda (probably Zelda).

 

[Firefoxx]

Captain Falcon is a disgusting character and as long as Smash 4 persists, the greater the sway of "meme hero" will turn into "scorn of all, wish he was deleted from the game". I don't personally know ANYONE who enjoys playing against Falcon offline or online. His list of cancerous binary tools go well beyond anyone else. Perhaps this is Sakurai's intentions to kill any franchise he doesn't want coming back... he did it with Ice Climbers, now it's Falcon's turn.

I would argue this, but Falcon Dittos are my least favorite match up in the game so...

(also I wouldn't argue. Dude's absurd and I love it. **** good recoveries, I would rather have massive hitboxes on EVERYTHING.)

 

[Shaya]

Captain Falcon dittos are boring to me now, haha. Obviously hype things can happen but to have fun with them involves a lot of "not playing to win" (i.e. every non-aerial move 'banned').
Best fun ditto is all about Doctor Mario or Ganon imo.

Both characters are exceptional at making every hit reverberate through both player's bodies; RUMBLE ON OR OFF.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why do people even think Charizard is the worst in the game?

I don't understand.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Why do people even think Charizard is the worst in the game?

I don't understand.

Because they've never played a Charizard that uses nair before probably.

Charizard's nair is probably better than some character in bottom tier tbh...

 

[andimidna]

What kind of Sheik would get hit by U-Tilt?

...maybe if their controller breaks

 

[micahclay]

I agree with most of it, except I'd move Pikachu up, Rosa down, Falcon down, Fox up, Pacman up, Mewtwo down, Jiggs way down, Ike and Mac up (all up/down 1 rank, except Jiggs - I think she's pretty bad).

 

[bc1910]

Oh my god... It's just so bad. I'm surprised people are saying this one is good when it's no better than the ones previously.

Because it IS better. That's the saddest part. There's never been a reddit list where everyone is this close to being in roughly the right positions even though there are still brain dead mistakes.

Seriously. Customs. Brawler. At. The. Bottom.

@ Radical Larry saying "my posts aren't serious" is kind of a cop out isn't it?

 

[Shaya]

What kind of Sheik would get hit by U-Tilt?

The type that bouncing fishes ganon's shield, then presses b again not realising there's a balloon right there on smashville or town and city and bounces right back into the glory, obviously.
Shame that Sheik will probably press B for a third time and still hit Ganon for the ultimate photo finish angling competition (I personally aim for this every time)


Charizard's nair is good on shields, but terrible at handling roll ins. For whatever reason Charizard is common in my region as a pseudo-secondary and I tend to feel most people just don't know the match up against him either. None of his moves are [super] strong in neutral and the stuff Zard's get away with in disadvantage shouldn't be happening if people took the time to learn him. People with a good deal of Pokemon Trainer match up experience from Brawl may not feel he's the worst in the game, but probably don't rate him very high still. If the bottom third of the cast are all mostly of similar strength, then Zard probably comes out towards the best of them.

I would say at this stage weighing up the amount of tournament exposure a character has, if any, the worst character would have to be between Jigglypuff, Gunner, Swordfighter. Their metas are near-nonexistent and also have no representation. Despite how it pains me, Japan inklings of it being Falco may be well founded as a gauging of his overall strength (i.e. "as a main") although his ability in certain match ups definitely make him not last in practicality.

 

[Jaguar360]

The type that bouncing fishes ganon's shield, then presses b again not realising there's a balloon right there on smashville or town and city and bounces right back into the glory, obviously.
Shame that Sheik will probably press B for a third time and still hit Ganon for the ultimate photo finish angling competition (I personally aim for this every time)


Charizard's nair is good on shields, but terrible at handling roll ins. For whatever reason Charizard is common in my region as a pseudo-secondary and I tend to feel most people just don't know the match up against him either. None of his moves are [super] strong in neutral and the stuff Zard's get away with in disadvantage shouldn't be happening if people took the time to learn him. People with a good deal of Pokemon Trainer match up experience from Brawl may not feel he's the worst in the game, but probably don't rate him very high still. If the bottom third of the cast are all mostly of similar strength, then Zard probably comes out towards the best of them.

I would say at this stage weighing up the amount of tournament exposure a character has, if any, the worst character would have to be between Jigglypuff, Gunner, Swordfighter. Their metas are near-nonexistent and also have no representation. Despite how it pains me, Japan inklings of it being Falco may be well founded as well, I've at least seen Falco in tournament but not really ever doing anything notable; but that gauging would be based on his overall strength (i.e. "as a main") although his ability in certain match ups definitely make him not last in practicality.

Speaking of Jigglypuff, did anyone see that nice Jigglypuff (on VGBootcamp's stream I believe or something like that) a few weeks ago? I think he made Top 8 and he wall-of-pain'd someone. I'll see if I can find the tournament.

Ah, yes, Serynder. It was a customs on tournament, but he was a default Jiggs.
Winner's Quarters vs. Seagull https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAwyQqxryLI
Pools vs. GimR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hel5kRzyWkw
Pools vs. Baggy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl9y7vRmxio

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Why do people even think Charizard is the worst in the game?

I don't understand.

Your icon matches your post XD
To answer your question, it's just the fact that most of the people voting on tier lists base their knowledge on for glory, where most Charizards just side special all game. Also, I think people just assume that unless the character is Brawl Dedede with chain grabs galore, if the character is a heavy, they must suck. It's why DK is always either at the bottom or near it. And DK a somewhat usable character. Somewhat. But the voters don't know that. Same goes for Charizard.