Character Competitive Impressions

[Road Death Wheel]

Well i just have so much i wana lab after patch. BUt ill look into vauge details on his auto cancels and what not.

 

[TheZyzyva]

Right, that's my point. I don't mind it, I'm just admitting that the result is "Boss's Luigi would've won, Joe's DK won due to Boss deciding to 'not win'." Thus if people refer to Joe's DK winning Xanadu, we have to keep this in mind - Boss's Luigi wouldn't have let that happen.

This kind of stuff doesn't happen too often. It's like when ZeRo lost 1 match during APEX, yet it's the match he played as Captain Falcon against M2K for fun. Yeah M2K took a game off ZeRo, but not off of ZeRo's Diddy.

If statistics are important, their footnotes are as well.

Ok, glad we're on the same page! Gotta be honest, I kinda like the idea of foot-noting the little odd details like that. Cause I just know "DK won Xanadu with cyclone" will be said at least a hundred times leading up to evo.

 

[Thinkaman]

Patches are live. As this is my favorite topic with my favorite people (and highly traffic'd) I'm posting this here.

 

[Jaxas]

Patches are live. As this is my favorite topic with my favorite people (and highly traffic'd) I'm posting this here.

How do you find it? I remember having difficulty before as well...

 

[Ulevo]

How do you find it? I remember having difficulty before as well...

It updates by itself.

 

[Thinkaman]

Diddy uair does 6%, from 8%

 

[bc1910]

Downloading it now. On the Wii U it's very simple, as soon as you start the game you'll usually be prompted to update. Otherwise, just try to go online and then you'll be prompted to restart the game and download the update.

On the 3DS it's harder, you have to use the eshop and go through the game's menu, but I can't remember the exact steps since I don't own a 3DS at the moment, sorry.

Anyways, this is pretty exciting. I don't know whether to test out my mains first or just see what they did to Diddy.

 

[andimidna]

Well diddys up air got nerfed then, time to sleep in peace
(Gonna test stuff and post anything I find here tho tomorrow)
Have fun guys

 

[Thinkaman]

WFT uair nerfed from 11% to 10%?

Maybe all uairs that can juggle have been

 

[Blue Banana]

On the 3DS it's harder, you have to use the eshop and go through the game's menu, but I can't remember the exact steps since I don't own a 3DS at the moment, sorry.

There should be update 1.0.6 available for download for Smash if you type for it in the search bar. It should be the first thing that comes up.

 

[Deathcarter]

Diddy's fair seems to have been nerfed in damage by 2% and kills way later.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Diddy Uthrow is nerfed in knockback, which means it chains to Uair better?

 

[Jaxas]

Holding-Cstick glitch with Smash stick is still present.

Anyways, where should we be posting this stuff?

 

[PUK]

Diddy Uthrow is nerfed in knockback, which means it chains to Uair better?

Uair won't kill ZSS before 125-130%, where any Uair kills anyway

 

[bc1910]

Well, Diddy has Hooed his last Haa.

Except not really because he can still kill you from a throw lol, just not at stupid low percents any more~

Fair's KB nerf will limit its use as a kill move but I don't think much of the damage nerf. 10% is still quite a lot for such a fast aerial and he still has that crazy autocancel window. Walling people out with Fair is going to be as effective as ever.

I don't see Diddy as becoming unviable, in fact I don't see him falling out of the high tier, but I'm perfectly fine with that. He's still good, but I think he is fairer.

 

[PUK]

Well, Diddy has Hooed his last Haa.

Except not really because he can still kill you from a throw lol, just not at stupid low percents any more~

Fair's KB nerf will limit its use as a kill move but I don't think much of the damage nerf. 10% is still quite a lot for such a fast aerial and he still has that crazy autocancel window. Walling people out with Fair is going to be as effective as ever.

I don't see Diddy as becoming unviable, in fact I don't see him falling out of the high tier, but I'm perfectly fine with that. He's still good, but I think he is fairer.

a 10% Fair mean it hits like: DHD Fair tipper, WFT fair, in fact lot of Fair in the same category. The AC window seems reduced too, but not sure.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I played around with mewtwo a little. He's kinda bad. Slow, floaty, huge target, light, mediocre frame data, mediocre hitboxes, meh kill moves. His uthrow kills around like 130, so that's something...

 

[BBC7]

How do you get Mewtwo? I have both versions registered on Club Nintendo but I don't see any code in my hotmail.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I don't think they're delivering to NA yet. Germany got codes, Japan got codes... Shouldn't be too long before you guys get it.

 

[Meru.]

meh kill moves. His uthrow kills around like 130, so that's something...

He seemed like a pretty solid killer to me with his Side B comboing into smashes and that crazy Fair.

Bair seems to have some whiffing issues though.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Is Diddy the only character to have been changed enough to significantly affect his tier placement? Sheik and Sonic might have a bit more trouble killing, but should still be strong. Most everyone else doesn't seem to have anything more than minor changes from what I've seen.

 

[Nobie]

But have you seen the size of Mewtwo's up tilt? Geez

 

[HeroMystic]

Is Diddy the only character to have been changed enough to significantly affect his tier placement? Sheik and Sonic might have a bit more trouble killing, but should still be strong. Most everyone else doesn't seem to have anything more than minor changes from what I've seen.

Sonic lost a lot of easy set-ups, but he's still a solid character. Diddy got nerfed very hard. Harder than I expected. But he's still a solid character too. Sheik getting a b-air nerf just seems really strange to me, but overall it's likely she is now the best character in the game.

We'll have to see what the Diddy and Sonic mains do to compensate for the nerfs, but I feel people who are good at playing Sonic (especially the ones that mained him in Brawl) won't mind these nerfs at all.

 

[TheZyzyva]

Is Diddy the only character to have been changed enough to significantly affect his tier placement? Sheik and Sonic might have a bit more trouble killing, but should still be strong. Most everyone else doesn't seem to have anything more than minor changes from what I've seen.

A system change makes it so you can no longer attack while holding items. Has to do with the c-stick not doing tilts when holding a direction, only smashes. This means MegaMan, Link, and Peach all got some heavy inadvertant nerfs.

Also saw someone say ROB lost a lot of power on his throw to uair combo but I dont feel it. If its true though that could drop him a peg I think.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Sonic lost a lot of easy set-ups, but he's still a solid character. Diddy got nerfed very hard. Harder than I expected. But he's still a solid character too. Sheik getting a b-air nerf just seems really strange to me, but overall it's likely she is now the best character in the game.

We'll have to see what the Diddy and Sonic mains do to compensate for the nerfs, but I feel people who are good at playing Sonic (especially the ones that mained him in Brawl) won't mind these nerfs at all.

Yup. Sheik and Rosa are back to being the best characters in the game. We 1.0.0 again.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Can we talk about Mewtwo's giant ass blind spot on his up air? It's like they gave him a Smash 4 Meta Knight hitbox.
Also, Shadow ball has CRAZY recoil in the air.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Did Sonic really get nerfed that hard? Bthrow took a big blow, but otherwise, what's so bad for him? Default Spin Dash does a lot less damage, but Hammer Spin Dash which was better in the first place does the same damage as ever so that's not a real nerf (it just means you will now *really* not pick default side-B). I don't anticipate a significant fall for Sonic at all.

In general though, I'd really wait for dantarion and some numerical changes before we judge too much. Clearly Diddy took a very huge hit (I'm almost entirely certain he won't be top tier now), but otherwise things are still pretty murky and we don't really know a lot of stuff. Remember that changes go both ways, and there could easily be very important buffs that we just haven't found yet.

 

[Antonykun]

Swordfighter got at least two buffs
N-air went from 5% to 8%
D-Tilt went from 6% to 8%
Neither @ RWB or I have noticed anything else

 

[RWB]

At least nothing that I can back up with evidence.

 

[Blobface]

Ganondorf from what we can tell got a jab damage buff (8-10 from 6-8), and a tiny decrease in the end lag of F-smash (2 frames). That's all we know for now, but I think it's possible he got a general endlag decrease like the last patch did with his aerials.

 

[Spikeez]

Does somebody know some Falco changes? I don't seem to find any.

 

[Blobface]

I played around with mewtwo a little. He's kinda bad. Slow, floaty, huge target, light, mediocre frame data, mediocre hitboxes, meh kill moves. His uthrow kills around like 130, so that's something...

Was that in training/without rage? Cause that it an insanely powerful kill throw if it's without rage.

 

[RWB]

Was that in training/without rage? Cause that it an insanely powerful kill throw if it's without rage.

Gonna test this in non-training with 100%/150%(Max Rage) on Mario.

Kills at 110% with 100% rage.

Kills below 95% with 150% rage.

Kills at 130% with no rage.

I honestly have problems seeing the "meh kill moves". Run in Up Smash kills at 95% with no rage and is quick. Can you DI out of it? F-Smash is probably harder to land but kills at similar percentage from the middle of the screen. Fair is quick and if Fresh, it kills with ease at roughly 95 by the edge, 125%(and I think I'm way overshooting the second) at midstage. Shadow Ball kills at below 90%.

Of course, this is all without the enemy DI-ing for survival.


Note: Mewtwo's Up Throw is now the strongest non-setup Up Throw in the game. I think Olimar can outdo it with a Blue Pikmin Up Throw, and I'm certain Wii Fit Trainer has the strongest up throw of all while in Deep Breathing. ROB used to have the strongest, but it was nerfed to bits.

Now kill setups, I could see Mewtwo lack, but actual kill moves? He seems to have a fair amount of pretty good ones, not least of them his Up Throw.

 

[MatrixNexus]

Does somebody know some Falco changes? I don't seem to find any.

His up smash hit boxes connect better.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Ima just parot hat i said in another thread but samus's missles are noticable faster now. 2 missles can be on screen and less lag.

 

[Luco]

I'm pretty sure someone on these boards sent an e-mail to Nintendo asking for patch notes in future and... Nintendo actually responded and said they'd take it into consideration. It's certainly not a definite, but I wouldn't count out the possibility that they wouldn't release patch notes given the fact they know people want them.

Sorry, this was in response to this...

How long did it take the labbers to figure out the previous patch changes, anyhow? Likely we still won't get patch notes (be still, my beating heart), so what are we looking at, about a week of false information?

 

[Project Quarantine]

NA has mewtwo, that is if I'm not the only one.

Mewtwo looks pretty good to me, but that's just initial thoughts.

 

[Dooms]

Kills at 110% with 100% rage.

Kills below 95% with 150% rage.

Kills at 130% with no rage.

I honestly have problems seeing the "meh kill moves". Run in Up Smash kills at 95% with no rage and is quick. Can you DI out of it? F-Smash is probably harder to land but kills at similar percentage from the middle of the screen. Fair is quick and if Fresh, it kills with ease at roughly 95 by the edge, 125%(and I think I'm way overshooting the second) at midstage. Shadow Ball kills at below 90%.

Of course, this is all without the enemy DI-ing for survival.


Note: Mewtwo's Up Throw is now the strongest non-setup Up Throw in the game. I think Olimar can outdo it with a Blue Pikmin Up Throw, and I'm certain Wii Fit Trainer has the strongest up throw of all while in Deep Breathing. ROB used to have the strongest, but it was nerfed to bits.

Now kill setups, I could see Mewtwo lack, but actual kill moves? He seems to have a fair amount of pretty good ones, not least of them his Up Throw.

Back throw can also kill. Spike. Mewtwo also has a really solid off stage game imo thanks to his huge second jump and palutena recovery, so he can go off stage for the gimp with a back air depending on the character.

 

[HeroMystic]

Did Sonic really get nerfed that hard? Bthrow took a big blow, but otherwise, what's so bad for him? Default Spin Dash does a lot less damage, but Hammer Spin Dash which was better in the first place does the same damage as ever so that's not a real nerf (it just means you will now *really* not pick default side-B). I don't anticipate a significant fall for Sonic at all.

In general though, I'd really wait for dantarion and some numerical changes before we judge too much. Clearly Diddy took a very huge hit (I'm almost entirely certain he won't be top tier now), but otherwise things are still pretty murky and we don't really know a lot of stuff. Remember that changes go both ways, and there could easily be very important buffs that we just haven't found yet.

B-throw, F-throw, and U-throw took some heavy nerfs. Apparently Burning Spin Dash lost invincibility frames but I don't think that has been confirmed.

Also not everyone plays with Customs. Best to remember that.

 

[Meru.]

My first impression of Mewtwo is pretty solid. So far, I don't think he's one of the top since he has a few things that hold him down (bit slow, floaty, big, somewhat light too?) but he's definitely not bad. Killing is definitely not one of his problems. His Uthrow kills crazy early, his Side B combos into almost everything including F/Dsmash, his Fair is fast, strong and safe, his Usmash kills good and has good range, strong projectile, reflector... He has some decent range on things like Dtilt, and his Jab and Dash Attack have big disjointed hitboxes. Especially his jab like wtf. He's not going to very fun for those who like aggressive playstyles though: defense seems to work much better for him than offense.

A system change makes it so you can no longer attack while holding items. Has to do with the c-stick not doing tilts when holding a direction, only smashes. This means MegaMan, Link, and Peach all got some heavy inadvertant nerfs.

I have never ever used this as Peach main. This is barely a nerf, leave alone a heavy one. She merely lost something useless. I have never seen any Megamin or Link use this either.