Character Competitive Impressions

[David Viran]

ZSS is completely intangible for the first 1/3rd of Flip Kick, but not the whole thing.

Yeah it doesn't last the entire animation God that would be ridiculous tho. The intangibleilty starts on frame 3.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Yeah it doesn't last the entire animation God that would be ridiculous tho. The intangibleilty starts on frame 3.

With the way people never punish that move it might as well have full intangibility.

 

[Superbat]

I think the update will be on midnight or something. The hype intensifies. Sorry for being off topic. The hype is too real. alright

 

[Shaya]

She warps to a different dimension. I believe every time she "re-fades" she's doing some Z-axis magic that can dodge things.

Due to my belief that there's only a short time now before the patch drops, I'll permit, for this really short time before a patch-specific thread is opened to contemplate your position in the Sakuniverse. But at least keep it above "jokes"/spammy posts though. There's a gazillion other places you can post to say "OMG PATCH EXCITEMENT".

 

[Quickhero]

Before a plethora of people post, I might as well state that people should be realistic.

Don't say things like making a clone character severely different from his/her original counterpart and/or making a character become the Melee/Brawl version. Also don't exaggerate Diddy nerfs and talk about getting all of Diddy's moves nerfed because that's also over the top.

 

[BBC7]

How about no speculation at all? Let's not talk about what we don't have yet

 

[ParanoidDrone]

She warps to a different dimension. I believe every time she "re-fades" she's doing some Z-axis magic that can dodge things.

Due to my belief that there's only a short time now before the patch drops, I'll permit, for this really short time before a patch-specific thread is opened to contemplate your position in the Sakuniverse. But at least keep it above "jokes"/spammy posts though. There's a gazillion other places you can post to say "OMG PATCH EXCITEMENT".

OMG PATCH EXCITEMENT

I kid, I kid.

I fully expect a nerf of some description to smack Diddy in the face. I'm not sure what (or even what would be "ideal"), much less if Diddy will remain high tier or get blasted down to mid or low, but I can't see Sakurai ignoring him outright given how high profile he's become.

And that's all I feel confident saying about the patch, really. I could talk about what I'd like to happen, but that's a rather different subject.

Also 1% buff to Zelda's utilt. Again.

 

[bc1910]

I feel confident in saying Diddy will need a lot of nerfs to become a mid tier. Like, a LOT. He'll need to be trashed Greninja style and then some. I can't see him falling out of high tier unless they hit his autocancel windows (specifically Fair), damage output and kill confirms from grab all at once.

Even then he still has bananas, great smashes and monkey flip to keep him afloat. It's gonna take a landslide of nerfs to put a proper dent in that monkey.

Oh and I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this but I expect a lot of characters who could use a buff or two, including Greninja, to be totally unchanged.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Diddy will probably get the Rosie treatment from 1.0.4. Seemingly nerfed heavily at first, but still staying safely within the top 5.

 

[Ffamran]

And so the speculation continues... Shaya said not to already, everyone.

Edit: Reading is hard.

 

[Antonykun]

Edit out of fear of a certain avatar.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

And so the speculation continues... Shaya said not to already, everyone.

Lel read a few post up man.

 

[Shaya]

Oh, I should say though... Wishlisting is spam to me.

 

[Antonykun]

Oh, I should say though... Wishlisting is spam to me.

welp i edited my post. That reminds me though that i despise Swordfighter's f-tilt as its almost completely inferior to jab 1 due to jab locks

 

[Nu~]

Whatever happens, I'm sure the outcome will be something hilarious.

I feel like this patch may create a pretty big metagame shift.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

welp i edited my post. That reminds me though that i despise Swordfighter's f-tilt as its almost completely inferior to jab 1 due to jab locks

I'm confused.

I fail to see how a jab lock invalidates a move that does 3x the damage of a single hit, and actually kills by the edge, especially given the practicality of pivot options. Generally when I think of invalidation it is in options that have the same purpose and very similar risks yet one with notably more reward. What am I missing.

All I want to know is if general mechanics are on the table, and I'm going to unfortunately assume that they aren't.
Games get patched all the time, and the most unfortunate thing is that knee-jerk that happens whenever a change occurs that seems to cause some misguided bandwagon effect. Given the presence of the Greninja meme that followed out of bug fixes. I doubt there will be patch notes even if there is anything truly significant on character balance, but given the track record of whistle blowers... probably best to take the day off Smash.

 

[TheZyzyva]

Personally Id like to see the knockback on a lot of up airs diminished. People die way too early off the top IMO. Other than that I bet we get a lot more touch-ups than people are expecting, across the board. The first patch removed vectoring so I dont think Sakurai would change much until he saw thr effects of that, now though he can go wild. Fingers crossed there's a lot of fine tuning.

Please though dont touch Ness' back throw!

*edit* whoopsy totally not wishlisting... So to keep it on topicish I still think DDD is the worst but would love to see someone change my mind.

 

[Antonykun]

I'm confused.

I fail to see how a jab lock invalidates a move that does 3x the damage of a single hit, and actually kills by the edge, especially given the practicality of pivot options.

Jab lock means that you do more damage than f tilt because grab combo you can kill earlier because Smash attack and the move comes out faster and recovers quicker. Pivot F-tilt is the only reason why it isn't invalidated by jab 1. Also Swordfighter jab 1 is really good overall

 

[Conda]

I wonder if the Lucas's June release date has any potentiality of bringing us another balance patch, or if it'll just be a Lucas DLC release without a patch.

Anyways, I'm excited for the patch and can't wait to start making some sharing centre vids - shared custom stages, shared replays, etc. I feel like this patch will really bring the community together.

 

[ZarroTsu]

Thing I've noticed about Swordfighter's ftilt though is it is in fact a "kill move" in the same way Link's ftilt is. Minus everything that makes Link's ftilt good, of course.

Seems like a toss up between a slightly faster, crap range ftilt and a slightly slower, god range fsmash though. With that said, ftilt's hitbox seems to pass through swordfighter's hurtbox a bit too, letting you hit characters "next to" you, and even a bit (maybe like two pixels?) behind you. So it has that going for it, I guess?

 

[Djent]

My predictions (based off Shi-Gaming's list and tournament results):

Major Nerfs:
Minor Nerfs:
Minor Buffs:
Major Buffs:

Characters within groupings are arranged roughly in descending certainty. There are probably more but these are the ones on which I'm comfortable betting.

EDIT: Decided Marth/Lucina should be in the same tier (as their frame data is the same). Also moved Sword back b/c the point about Miis not changing much is probably legit.

 

[Smog Frog]

now we have a ganon on stream, but he isnt abusing the fists of dankness.

 

[ZarroTsu]

I have a feeling in my gut that they won't touch Mii Fighters at all. If they do hypothetically buff Swordfighter, though, Brawler could stand to have something done to piston punch or helicopter kick. Those moves are ****ing bonkers.

 

[Anomilus]

GOT EEEEM!!! (kappa)

So glad I came in on time to see Ganondorf. And I'm rolling my eyes at the commentators trying to breakdown Ganon's limitations into simply "Shield or Spotdodge @ mid-range to beat him", as if Ganon has no other options but to attack and pray.

 

[Antonykun]

Thing I've noticed about Swordfighter's ftilt though is it is in fact a "kill move" in the same way Link's ftilt is. Minus everything that makes Link's ftilt good, of course.

Seems like a toss up between a slightly faster, crap range ftilt and a slightly slower, god range fsmash though. With that said, ftilt's hitbox seems to pass through swordfighter's hurtbox a bit too, letting you hit characters "next to" you, and even a bit (maybe like two pixels?) behind you. So it has that going for it, I guess?

F tilt comes out at frame 9 while F-Smash comes out at frame 16 and F Smash kills so early like I stole a stock at 80%!

 

[Yonder]

Well, time to play as much Luigi as possible before he gets the inevitable nerf bat [that he DOES NOT NEED...no bias. Serious. He still can't approach, wrecked by projectiles, and has no mobility].

The only characters that actually need nerfs are Diddy, Rosalina, Sheik, and Sonic. That's it.

 

[Quickhero]

@ Conda I don't want a patch for a long time after this one, tbh. Having a fighting game that changes two months from now is just such a poor change as it means that a lot of things you learned meant nothing. Fighting games aren't really meant for patches, once in a while is good, but not so much. So I hope there isn't any in June.

Also @Djent what makes you believe that Lucina will get more buffs than Marth? I'm assuming you mean that since you state major buffs to Lucina, yet minor to Marth. I'm almost certain that they will get the exact same changes. EDIT: Curse you.

 

[Conda]

Since the patch is almost upon us, here are the characters I feel could use a buff (I won't indicate what kind of buff, because I don't want to spend all night writing this message ) --



Not that many. And I don't think any of these characters need HUGE buffs. The developers may have the intent to make them better at what they do well rather than better at what they suck at, OR the other way around which would make them all more well rounded. And I'm all for 'well rounded'.

@ Conda I don't want a patch for a long time after this one, tbh. Having a fighting game that changes two months from now is just such a poor change as it means that a lot of things you learned meant nothing. Fighting games aren't really meant for patches, once in a while is good, but not so much. So I hope there isn't any in June.

Agreed

 

[Road Death Wheel]

My predictions (based off Shi-Gaming's list and tournament results):

Major Nerfs:
Minor Nerfs:
Minor Buffs:
Major Buffs:

Characters within groupings are arranged roughly in descending certainty. There are probably more but these are the ones on which I'm comfortable betting.


EDIT: Decided Marth/Lucina should be in the same tier (as their frame data is the same). Also moved Sword back b/c the point about Miis not changing much is probably legit.

Marcina does not need a major overhaul. Hell anice short hop fair auto cancel frames would do wonders.

 

[Blobface]

GOT EEEEM!!! (kappa)

So glad I came in on time to see Ganondorf. And I'm rolling my eyes at the commentators trying to breakdown Ganon's limitations into simply "Shield or Spotdodge @ mid-range to beat him", as if Ganon has no other options but to attack and pray.

I missed Ganon?
And he was using Dark Fists properly?

 

[Mr. Johan]

Only thing that would necessitate a patch with Lucas is if someone gets overly buffed to the point of lunacy, or an overly strong quality like Luigi's safe on shield Fireballs and Norway-size Dash grab or Fox's Jab shenanigans is left untouched and now has the avenue to be abused easily now that the strongest are out of the way.


Just something that would make the devs higher up say "Oh ****, we let that one slip/how could we let that happen?"

 

[ZarroTsu]

How long did it take the labbers to figure out the previous patch changes, anyhow? Likely we still won't get patch notes (be still, my beating heart), so what are we looking at, about a week of false information?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I wonder if the Lucas's June release date has any potentiality of bringing us another balance patch, or if it'll just be a Lucas DLC release without a patch.

Anyways, I'm excited for the patch and can't wait to start making some sharing centre vids - shared custom stages, shared replays, etc. I feel like this patch will really bring the community together.

IIRC it's been confirmed that Lucas will come with some sort of update (which I guess is sort of a given since they need to patch him in somehow) but a) I can't remember the source and b) that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be another balance overhaul.

 

[Anomilus]

I missed Ganon?
And he was using Dark Fists properly?

Manondorf's still in winners, so you'll likely see him again if you tune in.

Apparently he wasn't using Dark Fists though.


As for potential buffs, I'd go with needing a minor buff. I'm starting to think he needs just a little more. He has pretty good frames and he can really run away with a match once he has the momentum. I just think when his opponent gains the momentum, Bowser Jr. has a bit too much difficulty resetting situations.

I'd probably at least buff his KO options. If they're gonna remain difficult to land, make 'em stronger. Also fix F-Smash so people don't fall out of it. A bit more knockback on BAir as well.


GANONS UP NOW!!

 

[MatrixNexus]

Since we're having another balance patch, will replays no longer work again?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

How long did it take the labbers to figure out the previous patch changes, anyhow? Likely we still won't get patch notes (be still, my beating heart), so what are we looking at, about a week of false information?

roughly 48 hours.

 

[Antonykun]

You know what an underdeveloped meta looks like? (to everyone but me and a few others)

 

[Djent]

Manon time!

Marcina does not need a major overhaul. Hell anice short hop fair auto cancel frames would do wonders.

I don't think they need it, I think they're going to get it.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Manon time!


I don't think they need it, I think they're going to get it.

Lel i guess.

 

[Shaya]

I've been kinda silently excited about it for a while, but Ganon's down tilt must be one of the best in the game. It's soooooooo large, so strong, pretty fast.
Makes me think just about anything with him is possible when he's got something like that outranging everyone, and it's not the type of thing characters are beating with their own melee tools in neutral.