Character Competitive Impressions

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike in theory could get yet another buff. Japan still thinks he's crap. Same with apparently half of NA and Europe given his position on user voted tier lists

Robin... needs one but I don't think will get one. Same with Marth and Lucina. The later two might get some minor token buff that don't matter.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I've been kinda silently excited about it for a while, but Ganon's down tilt must be one of the best in the game. It's soooooooo large, so strong, pretty fast.
Makes me think just about anything with him is possible when he's got something like that outranging everyone, and it's not the type of thing characters are beating with their own melee tools in neutral.

His down tilt is thebest thing about him in smash 4. well that and u smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Since we're having another balance patch, will replays no longer work again?

I'm pretty sure your current replays will be gone after the new patch, unfortunately. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Ffamran]

I've been kinda silently excited about it for a while, but Ganon's down tilt must be one of the best in the game. It's soooooooo large, so strong, pretty fast.
Makes me think just about anything with him is possible when he's got something like that outranging everyone, and it's not the type of thing characters are beating with their own melee tools in neutral.

Isn't it disjointed? Speaking of which, aren't a lot of Dtilts slightly disjointed or deceptive in range?

Anyway, the fact that his Ftilt and Dtilt share hit frames makes it a great way for him to mix things up. Ganondorf will boot you, but how and where will he boot you is up to him. Manondorf spammed Up Smash a lot and part of me thinks he was trying to use Up Smash as a cover since it has little end lag and he can act out it with anything.

 

[Antonykun]

I pray that Villager doesn't get nerfed she's one of those characters who is actually pretty balanced like Greninja IMO. If you want to nerf Villager it might be smarter to nerf/buff the things around her.
I am curious about Swordfighter buffs, if any. Mostly because they have so many different ways of making him good and fair

 

[MatrixNexus]

I'm pretty sure your current replays will be gone after the new patch, unfortunately. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Sounds like it.

 

[Blobface]

I tuned in to the match literally 10 seconds before manon lost. Can't help but wonder why he's using Flame Wave though. Pretty much everyone at the Ganon boards thinks it a niche move at best. I'm curious what he thinks of it.

And yes Ganon's D-tilt is amazing. It has a nice big disjoint at the end, pops them up in the air for follow ups, and even kills at high %. It's one of the reasons short-ranged characters usually have trouble with Ganon.

 

[Conda]

Since we're having another balance patch, will replays no longer work again?

Yes. I've uploaded most of my replays on my youtube channel, but couldn't get to all of them due to getting sick + funeral stuff. That'll put a stark halt on my initial intention to upload all of my replays in time before the update.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've been kinda silently excited about it for a while, but Ganon's down tilt must be one of the best in the game. It's soooooooo large, so strong, pretty fast.
Makes me think just about anything with him is possible when he's got something like that outranging everyone, and it's not the type of thing characters are beating with their own melee tools in neutral.

Ganon N-air similarly makes me warm and fuzzy cackle with sinister laughter. If only Diddy F-air was a two hit sex kick that could potentially do over 20 damage and start combos at low percents.

 

[Anomilus]

I'm gonna really miss my 1-second Charizard kill replay, among others...

 

[MatrixNexus]

Yes. I've uploaded most of my replays on my youtube channel, but couldn't get to all of them due to getting sick + funeral stuff. That'll put a stark halt on my initial intention to upload all of my replays in time before the update.

Might as well delete them now while I have the chance.

 

[Deathcarter]

Ike in theory could get yet another buff. Japan still thinks he's crap. Same with apparently half of NA and Europe given his position on user voted tier lists

Robin... needs one but I don't think will get one. Same with Marth and Lucina. The later two might get some minor token buff that don't matter.

The thing with Ike is that his core good moves are for the most part very solid and don't really need anymore buffs after patch 1.04, the problem is that the rest of his kit was deliberately designed to be gimmicky/impractical for the sake of them being gimmicky/impractical. As such, I doubt Sakurai is going to touch Ike outside of maybe Down Smash or Uthrow which still feel a bit underwhelming. Its not like Marcina where their frame data was savagely butchered to a hellish extreme for the sake of "balancing" them and Sakurai might buff Marth back up now that he's made a lot of former Marth players angry.

 

[Blobface]

Let's not forget about Ganon's Dash Attack. Covers a third of FD, does 14% and kills at reasonable %'s, and best of all, dumps them in the perfect position for U-airs.

Ganon does have to commit to get in, but compared to other characters, he probably has the easiest time getting into peoples heads. For cripes sake, he has 4 moves that can instantly kill: Reverse Warlock Punch, D-air, Wizkick spike, and Ganoncide (not to say that all of that is incredibly useful but you get the idea.) He has the deadliest advantage state in the game and one of the best aerials in any smash game (U-air). He can even kill you from disadvantage at < 60% with Wizkick and Dark Fists. No character in the game is nearly as scary as Ganondorf, which makes it much easier to manipulate people with him.

I'm not saying he's a top tier or anything, but he's frequently underestimated because people don't realize how hard he can mess with you.

Side note: what is the best aerial in the entire series?

I'm gonna really miss my 1-second Charizard kill replay, among others...

How... even.

 

[Antonykun]

Let's not forget about Ganon's Dash Attack. Covers a third of FD, does 14% and kills at reasonable %'s, and best of all, dumps them in the perfect position for U-airs.

Ganon does have to commit to get in, but compared to other characters, he probably has the easiest time getting into peoples heads. For cripes sake, he has 4 moves that can instantly kill: Reverse Warlock Punch, D-air, Wizkick spike, and Ganoncide (not to say that all of that is incredibly useful but you get the idea.) He has the deadliest advantage state in the game and one of the best aerials in any smash game (U-air). He can even kill you from disadvantage at < 60% with Wizkick and Dark Fists. No character in the game is nearly as scary as Ganondorf, which makes it much easier to manipulate people with him.

I'm not saying he's a top tier or anything, but he's frequently underestimated because people don't realize how hard he can mess with you.

Side note: what is the best aerial in the entire series?



How... even.

Slingshot obviously

 

[Xuan Wu]

The thing with Ike is that his core good moves are for the most part very solid and don't really need anymore buffs after patch 1.04, the problem is that the rest of his kit was deliberately designed to be gimmicky/impractical for the sake of them being gimmicky/impractical. As such, I doubt Sakurai is going to touch Ike outside of maybe Down Smash or Uthrow which still feel a bit underwhelming. Its not like Marcina where their frame data was savagely butchered to a hellish extreme for the sake of "balancing" them and Sakurai might buff Marth back up now that he's made a lot of former Marth players angry.

D-smash could certainly be adjusted further. Although it was already buffed from both the transition to SSB4 and the 1.0.4. update, it is still almost completely overshadowed by U-smash, which also hits both sides of Ike but is stronger and has more range. Its horizontal knockback trajectory may have been improved, but it would be nice if at least one of the hitboxes behaved like the second hit of Link's D-smash to set it apart.

U-throw, in my opinion, is decent for throw combos past percentages where D-throw launches foes out of reach. Perhaps giving it D-throw's hitstun would make it better?

^-^

 

[Smog Frog]

best aerial in the entire series is diddy uair

 

[Mr. Johan]

If Marth got his old Fair back he's gone right back to invalidating half the cast with Double Fair walling. Not sure if I want that. :/

 

[BBC7]

Side note: what is the best aerial in the entire series?

Contenders imo:
Jigglypuff Bair (Melee)
Fox Uair (Melee)
Diddy Uair (Smash 4)
Meta Knight Dair (Brawl)

 

[mimgrim]

best aerial in the entire series is diddy uair

Contenders imo:
Jigglypuff Bair (Melee)
Fox Uair (Melee)
Diddy Uair (Smash 4)
Meta Knight Uair (Brawl)

Those are all odd ways to spell Brawl MK Dair.

 

[BBC7]

Those are all odd ways to spell Brawl MK Dair.

Oops, that's actually what I meant. Thanks for correcting me

 

[Deathcarter]

If Marth got his old Fair back he's gone right back to invalidating half the cast with Double Fair walling. Not sure if I want that. :/

They can keep fair as is as long as Marth can combo out of throws again (w/o Cresent Slash) and autocancel nair.

Oh and not make utilt punishable on hit because that is just stupid.

 

[Shaya]

If fair is suddenly as good as it was in Brawl I'd go out of my way to tell everyone how to beat it. **** another generation of players thinking Marth's fair was invalidating the cast (when there were only two and a half optimal timings for fairings, spot dodge covering all of them and learning to power shield other timings for a punish was something most players in tournament knew how to). No one double faired with Marth at high level Brawl. No one.

Also he has fair to db1 in a short hop, which practically covers the same usages of double fair.

Now neutral air? That invalidated like 80%-90% of the cast with mathematical certainty.

 

[Unknownkid]

Shoot! It is the time again where everyone smoke up a lot of placebo. Let me tell you, my friends... Placebo is one HELL of a drug. Like always, you guys will filter what is fact from fiction. I cannot wait to hear about the good, the bad, and the ugly from coming patch.

Anyways... since I am on my business trip this week, I will not be able to test Mewtwo tomorrow. I look forward to hearing some first impression about him and his difference between his Melee Counterpart. Keep me and anyone posted.

Thank you and Have fun with tomorrow.

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

OMG, Link v Wario in Grands over at VGBootcamp's weekly.

 

[BBC7]

Jokes on me because I don't have Mewtwo, do other people have him?

 

[kj22]

If Marth got his old Fair back he's gone right back to invalidating half the cast with Double Fair walling. Not sure if I want that. :/

shhhh....hush...let the marth mains have their fun again(;

If fair is suddenly as good as it was in Brawl I'd go out of my way to tell everyone how to beat it. **** another generation of players thinking Marth's fair was invalidating the cast (when there were only two and a half optimal timings for fairings, spot dodge covering all of them and learning to power shield other timings for a punish was something most players in tournament knew how to). No one double faired with Marth at high level Brawl. No one.

Also he has fair to db1 in a short hop, which practically covers the same usages of double fair.

Now neutral air? That invalidated like 80%-90% of the cast with mathematical certainty.

Nair was the GOAT. Slow falled, fast falled, just everything....hit everywhere, was Marth's nice little "na-na-na can't touch this" move for about half a second. Covered jumps, ROLLS (so hard figuring out how to cover/catch rolls in smash 4 when in the air as Marth...nothing is as great as nair was) spotdodges, airdodges, AND had good shield push back when tippered...yum.

Hit pretty low too, the angle was perfect.

Oh and it killed

 

[Blobface]

Link vs Wario? What madness is this?

This thread is going to explode over the next few days.

 

[Conda]

Boss went Wario for god knows what reason and lost 2 sets in GF to Joe's DK.

 

[Lavani]

Boss went Wario for god knows what reason and lost 2 sets in GF to Joe's DK.

I'd presume he was counterpicking a character with a command grab to deal with Kong Cyclone.

 

[Conda]

I'd presume he was counterpicking a character with a command grab to deal with Kong Cyclone.

Unneeded, he did fine as Luigi. He and Joe were challenging each other with alt mains (Wario vs Link) for one match at the start of the first GF set, then Joe switched back to DK after his first loss while Boss stayed Wario and kept having trouble.

It wasn't just a matchup thing either, his Wario just looked rusty. Having a command grab to deal with DK is fine and all but it wasn't used to the potential needed to actually deal with Kong Cyclone, and the rest of Wario's kit wasn't really being woven together well. Compared to his Luigi play, it was night and day. Switching to Luigi would've likely caused him to win, as he's done fine against Joe's DK as Luigi.

 

[TheZyzyva]

Boss went Wario for god knows what reason and lost 2 sets in GF to Joe's DK.

Seen him go Wario before as a counter-pick when he was losing (cant remember to who though) but hes beat Avg Joes DK multiple times as Luigi so I dont think that was entirely the reason. Maybe he thinks Wario has the better MU in general and wants to practice for evo? If hes taking Wario as a secondary I could see that being the case. Guys won Xanadu enough its not like he has anything to prove.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Am i gunna have ta be the mewtwo reporter here? i really don't wana but if nobody else is getting him tommarow...

 

[Crescent_Sun]

Do Wario and Luigi cover each others match ups well? That sounds like an interesting pair...

 

[Conda]

Seen him go Wario before as a counter-pick when he was losing (cant remember to who though) but hes beat Avg Joes DK multiple times as Luigi so I dont think that was entirely the reason. Maybe he thinks Wario has the better MU in general and wants to practice for evo? If hes taking Wario as a secondary I could see that being the case. Guys won Xanadu enough its not like he has anything to prove.

It was great that he switched to Wario and all, to show him off. ZeRo has done that, we've seen it happen. It's great -- when you're on the winner's side in GF you have a set to gamble with. No problem with that.

What's strange is continuing to stick with a losing choice match after match in the final set. It was clear during the first set that Joe's DK was beating Boss's Wario, which gave the GF set a clear air of "I COULD win this set if I really wanted to, but..." So are we to take a DK win as an exceptional case of "well Boss would've won if he went Luigi like the previous sets, but he didn't feel like it" ? I think so - there's no reason not to if you're convinced via previous data in the tournament and Xanadu as a weekly.

Joe did earn his win - he's fantastic, and benefited from Boss's decision to not change his character. The GF was a bit awkward to watch and commentate as a result of this, however. You can't really talk seriously/intently about a player's strategic choices when something like that's happening. And you also can't take the tournament result with as much weight as usual, as an important footnote exists.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

So are we to take a DK win as an exceptional case of "well Boss would've won if he went Luigi like the previous sets, but he didn't feel like it" ?

It was great that he switched to Wario and all, to show him off. ZeRo has done that, we've seen it happen. It's great -- when you're on the winner's side in GF you have a set to gamble with. No problem with that.

What's strange is continuing to stick with a losing choice match after match in the final set. It was clear during the first set that Joe's DK was beating Boss's Wario, which gave the GF set a clear air of "I COULD win this set if I really wanted to, but..." The GF was a bit awkward to watch and commentate as a result; you can't really talk seriously/intently about a player's strategic choices when something like that's happening. And you also can't take the tournament result with as much weight as usual, as an important footnote exists.

Too be fair i also think boss goes to xanadu for fun more than anything. he runs rampant there often enough. perhaps he just wanted some real pressure high level wario play?

 

[TheZyzyva]

So are we to take a DK win as an exceptional case of "well Boss's Luigi would've won, but Boss didn't feel like sealing his win and felt like gambling with Wario instead" ?

It was great that he switched to Wario and all, to show him off. ZeRo has done that, we've seen it happen. When you're on the winner's side in GF you have a set to gamble with. No problem with that, its continuing to stick with a losing choice match after match in the final set that made the GF set have a clear air of "I COULD win this set if I really wanted to..." - the GF was a bit awkward to watch and commentate as a result, as you can't really talk seriously/intently about a player's strategic choices when something like that's happening.

Yeah, I'd say so. Boss has never dropped a set to Avg Joe to the best of my knowledge, so it seems to me that this was not a moment of him going all out. Maybe it was a principle thing, like not using tiny Miis, or just to have more fun, I cant say for sure the reasoning, other than Boss clearly wasnt dead set on winning. Not with Luigi at least.

 

[kj22]

Apparently servers are down? Won't be back up till a while

From Tuesday, April 14, 2015 11:50 PM
- Wednesday, April 15, 2015 1:00 AM Pacific Time

During the maintenance window, the following services will be unavailable.

• Wii U
  
  • - Online Play, Rankings, etc. for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
    

• Nintendo 3DS
  
  • - Online Play, Rankings, etc. for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
    

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/network/en_na/network_status.jsp

 

[Conda]

Yeah, I'd say so. Boss has never dropped a set to Avg Joe to the best of my knowledge, so it seems to me that this was not a moment of him going all out. Maybe it was a principle thing, like not using tiny Miis, or just to have more fun, I cant say for sure the reasoning, other than Boss clearly wasnt dead set on winning. Not with Luigi at least.

Right, that's my point. I don't mind it, I'm just admitting that the result is "Boss's Luigi would've won, Joe's DK won due to Boss deciding to 'not win'." Thus if people refer to Joe's DK winning Xanadu, we have to keep this in mind - Boss's Luigi wouldn't have let that happen.

This kind of stuff doesn't happen too often. It's like when ZeRo lost 1 match during APEX, yet it's the match he played as Captain Falcon against M2K for fun. Yeah M2K took a game off ZeRo, but not off of ZeRo's Diddy.

If statistics are important, their footnotes are as well.

 

[mimgrim]

Am i gunna have ta be the mewtwo reporter here? i really don't wana but if nobody else is getting him tommarow...

For me it depends on when he comes in at around midnight then I can get him easiky tomorrow but if he comes in later I'll have to wait till the next night at midnight to get him.

 

[Conda]

I'll likely be showing him off in a video tomorrow, so you're not alone on reporting. I'm sure there'll be a lot out there on him. I'll be focusing on his moveset and intricacies that I pick up.