Character Competitive Impressions

[Ffamran]

what

what was that Megaman doing

Smooth Criminal

Ask him yourself; he has an account here. Do you want me to tag him or would you like to do the honors?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Okay.
Back air/nair/multi jumps seemed to be the ticket in the match up for Dedede.
Dtilt scared mega enough to start letting D3 get shield grab punishes on close range pellets.

Back air coming out low allowed him to land and approach.
Nair was stupidly fast/bigger range than expected in punishments or landing/beating pellets too.

Mega off stage got ****ed.

It was customless play though, but perhaps WifiMegaman 70:30s everyone?

D3 offstage ****s a lot of people over. What I don't get is why dtilt scared that Mega so much. Just...could have hung back and chucked stuff.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Locke 06]

Okay.
Back air/nair/multi jumps seemed to be the ticket in the match up for Dedede.
Dtilt scared mega enough to start letting D3 get shield grab punishes on close range pellets.

Back air coming out low allowed him to land and approach.
Nair was stupidly fast/bigger range than expected in punishments or landing/beating pellets too.

Mega off stage got ****ed.

It was customless play though, but perhaps WifiMegaman 70:30s everyone?

Wifi-Mega is harder to approach because powershields are harder, as are grabbing metal blades. However, Wifi-Mega loses his PS>utilt punishes and utilt is generally harder to land, which is arguably more important to his defensive game.

Edit: Also, Mega can challenge approaches with RAR BAir and dtilt very well. Which are more reactive tools that suffer in wifi.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Okay.
Back air/nair/multi jumps seemed to be the ticket in the match up for Dedede.
Dtilt scared mega enough to start letting D3 get shield grab punishes on close range pellets.

Back air coming out low allowed him to land and approach.
Nair was stupidly fast/bigger range than expected in punishments or landing/beating pellets too.

Mega off stage got ****ed.

It was customless play though, but perhaps WifiMegaman 70:30s everyone?

thats what i though the mu was before lol.....

 

[dean.]

My experience in the Mega Man match-up is that Kaion is the only player I've landed a Gordo > fsmash combo on LOL.

 

[Shaya]

Like yeah

dtilt was getting in on the ground, beating just outside close range pellets.
Passive response from megaman from it got him grabbed.
Megaman suddenly realises dash grab exists but likely too late, got naired for it over and over.

D3's two hit confirm/combos seemed to work at a wide range of percent vastly outdoing chip damage from pellets and the occasional fair/bair.

Air vs Air was one sided for D3. Back air was just really really solid at letting D3 not get wrecked for landing/slowed down from pellets considerably.
D3 had complete control of where/how he got hit.

 

[TriTails]

Cyclone is a high risk/low reward move in neutral with uair, utilt, and dsmash waiting... Luigi can have 8% with no followups, Mega doesn't fear that.

Simply having no followups does not mean Mega doesn't have to fear that. It sends you upwards, and Luigi with some good reads can punish Mega's landing, and let the combos flow begin.

So are you all saying Luigi is more ****ed vs Mega than D3?

 

[Nu~]

Simply having no followups does not mean Mega doesn't have to fear that. It sends you upwards, and Luigi with some good reads can punish Mega's landing, and let the combos flow begin.

I don't see how Luigi is catching mega man's landing.

Luigi's mobility on the ground pales in comparison to mega's in the air.

 

[TriTails]

I don't see how Luigi is catching mega man's landing.

Luigi's mobility on the ground pales in comparison to mega's in the air.

I believe Luigi's dashing speed roughly equal to Jiggly's air speed.

Or if you are real, Cyclone because you can't shield in the air.

Oh wait.

MEGA MAN'S DOWN-B.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I believe Luigi's dashing speed roughly equal to Jiggly's air speed.

Or if you are real, Cyclone because you can't shield in the air.

Oh wait.

MEGA MAN'S DOWN-B.

Bro ya need tah chillz.
we obviously seen that even d3 has options against mega. same with luigi they both hate mega. end of stick bro 30:60

 

[Locke 06]

Okay, Luigi confirmed is even more ****ed against Mega than D3.

I'm not saying anything in terms of that, and nobody should be saying anything like that if they don't fully understand either MU. Luigi's frame data challenges grabs better without commitment. It's just a different MU. Pellets wall out Mega Man better than they wall out Dedede.

Luigi's not a huge gigantic target for up airs with nothing to challenge crossups. However, Luigi doesn't have enormous range and weight.

To me, watching Kronos play that MU felt like watching Brawl Dedede play without using a chain grab. Up airs? Kronos, I love you buddy, but Dedede has nothing against that. He tries to land, but dies. His option is to go to the ledge, where... what can he do?

Edit: I don't see why people are so hesitant to just try out the matchup for themselves. It looks like everyone just hiveminds to those who have played it. The game is right there. Play against a computer. Time Luigi or Dedede out and see how easy it is compared to timing out Ganondorf.

 

[Blobface]

But how does Ganon get past the pellets? Without getting punished?

Mega can just spam pellets smartly and Ganon can't really do anything about it.

Sure, Ganon's advantage is bleeping strong, but how he get into that advantage is a question to ponder about.

Rosalina

Spoiler

Rosalina has Luma and ridiculously long range. Both of Ganon's burst movement options are invalidated by Luma (customs off): Wizkick gets slowed by Luma, and Flame Choke gets bopped by Luma. Eating a free hit from Rosalina will dump you across the stage.

ZSS

Spoiler

ZSS's paralyzer must be respected, and has literally no endlag. It's way more than just a "camp" option. You screw up on Paralyzer, you're either eating a lot of damage or dead.

Villager

Spoiler

Villager's slingshot dumps Ganon 5 miles away even at fairly low %'s, and he has 'Roid to augment that even further.

Sheik

Spoiler

Sheik is friggin' Sheik, the all reigning queen of obnoxious safety. Needles are utterly terrible for Ganon to deal with, and a lot of Sheiks stuff is near impossible to punish.

To be honest, I really don't know much about Megaman. I just know those four and I just don't see any similarities between them and Megaman. Lemons are a very safe move, but Megaman doesn't have anything else safe like every other one of Ganon's matchups. Luma is a yellow blob of pure safety which backs up her range., ZSS has Flip Jump to back up Paralyzer, Sheik is well, Sheik, and Villager has 'Roid to back up Sling Shot.

Though Z1GMA (not tagging him a second time) is still probably the best person for this. I'm going to test some more shenanigans at some point

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I'm not saying anything in terms of that, and nobody should be saying anything like that if they don't fully understand either MU. Luigi's frame data challenges grabs better without commitment. It's just a different MU. Pellets wall out Mega Man better than they wall out Dedede.

Luigi's not a huge gigantic target for up airs with nothing to challenge crossups. However, Luigi doesn't have enormous range and weight.

To me, watching Kronos play that MU felt like watching Brawl Dedede play without using a chain grab. Up airs? Kronos, I love you buddy, but Dedede has nothing against that. He tries to land, but dies. His option is to go to the ledge, where... what can he do?

Edit: I don't see why people are so hesitant to just try out the matchup for themselves. It looks like everyone just hiveminds to those who have played it. The game is right there. Play against a computer. Time Luigi or Dedede out and see how easy it is compared to timing out Ganondorf.

to be fair i dont think their is anyone whos actually gunna wana challenge u air.

 

[Locke 06]

to be fair i dont think their is anyone whos actually gunna wana challenge u air.

Start: You are Dedede. Mega Man is under you and you are in the air. You are about to get hit by a uair either SHFF or FH.

1. Eat it while drifting towards the ledge

Spoiler

You'll be eating Uairs until you get to the ledge, and then you're in an edge guarding situation (BAir/DAir) or a ledge situation (FH BAir, grab>uthrow return to start

2. Air dodge into the ground

Spoiler

If Mega reaches the ground 2 frames faster than you, he can 5f utilt you because UAir has 19 frames of lag (UAir also autocancels off of full hop) and airdodge has 22 frames of lag. Or, he can 6f grab and uthrow you. On either of those 2 situations, return to start. If you land slightly before him, now you're at a slight frame advantage. But you're Dedede, so slight frame advantages might as well be no frame advantage.

3. Weave your way down past the uairs

Spoiler

Dedede can't weave. Get hit by uair, go back to start.

4. Challenge with... Dair? Up-B?

Spoiler

you're trying too hard. Go home.

This has been an episode of Smash Traps: Choose Your Fate. Come back next time for Marth's dtilt on shield!

 

[Road Death Wheel]

This has been an episode of Smash Traps: Choose Your Fate. Come back next time for Diddy's dtilt on shield!

Fixed

 

[Blobface]

Start: You are Dedede. Mega Man is under you and you are in the air. You are about to get hit by a uair either SHFF or FH.

1. Eat it while drifting towards the ledge

Spoiler

You'll be eating Uairs until you get to the ledge, and then you're in an edge guarding situation (BAir/DAir) or a ledge situation (FH BAir, grab>uthrow return to start

2. Air dodge into the ground

Spoiler

If Mega reaches the ground 2 frames faster than you, he can 5f utilt you because UAir has 19 frames of lag (UAir also autocancels off of full hop) and airdodge has 22 frames of lag. Or, he can 6f grab and uthrow you. On either of those 2 situations, return to start. If you land slightly before him, now you're at a slight frame advantage. But you're Dedede, so slight frame advantages might as well be no frame advantage.

3. Weave your way down past the uairs

Spoiler

Dedede can't weave. Get hit by uair, go back to start.

4. Challenge with... Dair? Up-B?

Spoiler

you're trying too hard. Go home.

This has been an episode of Smash Traps: Choose Your Fate. Come back next time for Marth's dtilt on shield!

Market this book series immediately.

 

[TriTails]

This is what you get for losing your cool.

I apologize... again. That was stupid of me.

EDIT: Never mind me.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

This is what you get for losing your cool.

I apologize... again. That was stupid of me.

EDIT: Never mind me.

... a few of us have had our moment on this board....concider it an iniciation.

 

[Blobface]

"Sheik vs Ganon is 90:10" -Some guy the commentator knows

My avatar answers this statement pretty well.

Also, I was just curious, what character has gotten the absolute least tournament representation? I know there's rankings for this, but that can be artificially inflated by unusually high placings I.E. Nairo using Zelda.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

"Sheik vs Ganon is 90:10" -Some guy the commentator knows

My avatar answers this statement pretty well.

Also, I was just curious, what character has gotten the absolute least tournament representation? I know there's rankings for this, but that can be artificially inflated by unusually high placings I.E. Nairo using Zelda.

These commentators are killing me, they just said ness is bad.

and im very sure doc,samus, and lucina are probably lowest in reps.

 

[TriTails]

"Sheik vs Ganon is 90:10" -Some guy the commentator knows

My avatar answers this statement pretty well.

Mine also works.

This is why you don't listen much to the commentators.

 

[Pyr]

The main ones that come to my mind are Jiggs and Samus. Boss did Doc once or twice, seen Lucina in like top 16ish spots.

If anyone has any videos of these characters, please share. I'd love to see a tournament-level Jiggly.

 

[Locke 06]

This is what you get for losing your cool.

I apologize... again. That was stupid of me.

And also, add in

5. Work your way to the ledge, FF and air dodge, and SDDDJ back

How does Mega counters that? If DDD times his airdodge right, he is hard to punish.

(Just trying to expand my knowledge so I don't do something idiotic like that again)

For those interested:

Spoiler: Episode 2: Dedede on the ledge.

Start: You're on the ledge. Mega Man stands on the ledge.

1. Ledge jump

Spoiler

You're now above Mega Man. Congratulations. SHFF UAir OoS says hi.

2. Ledge drop > double jump

Spoiler

Now what. F13 Fair? Rising 7f NAir? Dedede has some of the worst options off of ledge drop>double jump to get back on the stage.

3. Neutral getup

Spoiler

6f dtilt is the only thing between you and getting grabbed... oh, and there's shield>utilt... or if Mega wants, time the neutral getup with utilt.

Spoiler: PLOT TWIST

Mega Man ledge trumps into a guaranteed back air.

4. Roll getup

Spoiler

reactable with dash grab because Dedede's roll getup is slow.

This is for fun. I know you edited it out, but I had already started it.

This is how I see the MU, and why uairs destroy characters. You know what makes Uairs better? Platforms.

While many Mega mains have different preferences for stages, Skyloft is the stage multiple Mega Mans have decided they love the most. SSguy, Fenrir, and I have all declared how much we love the stage for multiple reasons. The amount of platform coverage on that stage is ridiculous (uairs for days), it's really really big (plenty of room for spacing), you can jump through the main platform (land with nair for 0 landing lag), and walk offs facilitate time outs/camping. Also, because we play on it and others don't, stage knowledge is a thing. So, yeah. There you go.

 

[HeroMystic]

This is why you don't listen much to bad commentators.

Fixed. Commentary is great to enhance a match. Problem is the knowledge for Smash 4 is limited to a small amount of researchers. Plus they keep putting people who don't even play the game on the mic.

The main ones that come to my mind are Jiggs and Samus. Boss did Doc once or twice, seen Lucina in like top 16ish spots.

If anyone has any videos of these characters, please share. I'd love to see a tournament-level Jiggly.

Look up ChozoX and Xyro for Samus. Koolaid and Rice are the main docs to watch. I couldn't tell you anyone for Jiggs or Toon Link.

 

[Blobface]

Hey @ Locke 06 , you play Megaman, what do you think of Ganon vs Megaman?

 

[FullMoon]

While many Mega mains have different preferences for stages, Skyloft is the stage multiple Mega Mans have decided they love the most. SSguy, Fenrir, and I have all declared how much we love the stage for multiple reasons. The amount of platform coverage on that stage is ridiculous (uairs for days), it's really really big (plenty of room for spacing), you can jump through the main platform (land with nair for 0 landing lag), and walk offs facilitate time outs/camping. Also, because we play on it and others don't, stage knowledge is a thing. So, yeah. There you go.

Good thing I play on Skyloft often then.

 

[Shaya]

Negative-rep:

Megaman's up air isn't transcended right? Sounds like a bit too much hype for what would lose to nairs. Jumps and fast falls (and air dodges) can let the guy escape.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

The main ones that come to my mind are Jiggs and Samus. Boss did Doc once or twice, seen Lucina in like top 16ish spots.

If anyone has any videos of these characters, please share. I'd love to see a tournament-level Jiggly.

here ya are pry
* edit* to be honest im really not a fan of the way chozox plays.

 

[Locke 06]

Hey @ Locke 06 , you play Megaman, what do you think of Ganon vs Megaman?

I hate it. ftilt kills me at like 60% (lower with rage) because Rush isn't good at horizontally recovering. Beat is not an option because lol gonna get hit. I have no experience against Ganon other than wifi ganon (which is dumb) and friends, but he's hard to zone because his weight helps him get through pellets and the range on his hitboxes are dumb. I can't shield drop>utilt anything except dash attack.

I'm admittedly a poor offensive Mega Man (working on it...) but, Mega Man can do stuff to Ganondorf like everyone else. I would rather go DK because Mega Man just takes a lot of mental effort in perfect zoning that Ganondorfs are good at combatting.

@ Shaya - it is transcendent, but only the first 3 or 4 hits cause hitstun I think. It's a weird move.

 

[Thinkaman]

On the subject of bad matchups in Smash 4:

Duck Hunt vs. Villager. It's bad... so bad.

 

[Ffamran]

On the subject of bad matchups in Smash 4:

Duck Hunt vs. Villager. It's bad... so bad.

Oh man... The projectiles... So, why is it bad and who's screwed in this MU?

 

[Luco]

I think DHD is because can gets pocketed and he's left without one of his biggest zoning tools for half the match.

Among other things.

 

[Thinkaman]

Slingshot is an optimal response to most of DHD's slower spam. Mega Gunman is not a solution. Slingshot's range trivializes DHD fair/bair, his one disjointed trump card for melee combat.

Pocket trivializes all 3 cans and any discus. Detonating either doesn't matter, since Pocket is still invincible.

Lloid Rocket beats gunman and discus.

Bowling ball is basically unavoidable in most recovery situations, as DHD's recovery is slow, rather vertical, requires full duration commitment, and doesn't hit above him in any way.

All of these effects work in a really harsh compound way.

 

[Locke 06]

On the subject of bad matchups in Smash 4:

Duck Hunt vs. Villager. It's bad... so bad.

I'll bite. Mega gunman? With zig-zag can, the can is not a powerful pocket tool and playing around the mega gunman/playing slow can avoid getting hit off stage (where... yup. That's bad.) It seems like a super slow game for Duck Hunt, but it sounds doable if he plays that way.

Welp. I'll trust that Mega Gunman is not the answer.

 

[Thinkaman]

I tried the matchup and got wrecked, and thought "Ha, I'll stick with Zigzag Can but try Mega Gunman, Clay Smash, and other recovery options!"

This did not work well, to put it mildly.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I tried the matchup and got wrecked, and thought "Ha, I'll stick with Zigzag Can but try Mega Gunman, Clay Smash, and other recovery options!"

This did not work well, to put it mildly.

Sorry completely off topic but what customs that are off the radar insterest you you or are underated in your opinion? im bored and my sleep apnea is coming in hard, i just want some lab material.

 

[Thinkaman]

Uh... Volatile Breathing and Grounding Dash, aka the f1 armor combo escapes.

Timber (default), aka the f6 14% b-reversible super aerial.

Mega Bomb, aka ledge option coverage of the gods.

 

[Ffamran]

Sorry completely off topic but what customs that are off the radar insterest you you or are underated in your opinion? im bored and my sleep apnea is coming in hard, i just want some lab material.

Hi, my name is "Not-Thinkaman", and I believe that Explosive Blaster, Falco Phase, and Fast Fire Bird are interesting moves that need more testing. I am clearly not promoting Falco.

Seriously though, I would really want to know more about a potential edgeguard tool and an I-frame dash not to mention Fox with Impact/64 Blaster and the exploding Fox Illusion, Samus's Melee Shot, Ganondorf's Warlock Thrust, Wizard's Assault, and Gerudo Dragon thingie, ZSS's Electromagnetic Net, and whatever else there is.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Uh... Volatile Breathing and Grounding Dash, aka the f1 armor combo escapes.

Timber (default), aka the f6 14% b-reversible super aerial.

Mega Bomb, aka ledge option coverage of the gods.

Thanks man i'll check everything out but mega bomb, i already know that moves undeniable glory. in more than just ledge coverage as well.

 

[Locke 06]

Mega Bomb, aka ledge option coverage of the gods.

Ironically, the Samus custom that's not represented on the evo sets.

I do wonder though, as someone who plays Samus on the side and in talks with people who do the same, if the Samus boards know something I don't about this move. Because I, and most people I talk to, really do love the move.