Character Competitive Impressions

[Project Quarantine]

So, what do people think their mains' MU with Diddy actually are?

Captain falcon: play style dependent. Various players have different opinions on the Diddy-Falcon matchup, I think it's 55:45 in favor of diddy, only because Diddy gets gimped offstage hard.

Mii brawler: 55:45 Mii wins. If Diddy goes well offstage at 50 or higher and brawler is there, a polished brawler WILL kill Diddy (helicopter kick). Brawler's frame data and insanely low lag on everything outside of smashes actually matches and beats the monkey. The only reason this isn't worse for Diddy is because mii brawler lacks a reliable kill confirm at high percentage that isn't risky.

IMO

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Diddys jab sucks. And frame 3 is just good enough to not be slow.
Also did you ever look at the frame data of other characters?

Let's look at Fox for example.
Jab 2 (-1)
Dashattack 4 (-5)
Ftilt 6 (-4)
Dtilt 7 (+3)
Utilt 3 (-3)
Fsmash 13 (+1)
Usmash 8 (+3)
Dsmash 6
Nair 4 (-4)
Fair 7 (+1)
Bair 9 (+4)
Dair 5 (-12)
Uair 9 (+6)
Grab 6
DashGrab 10 (+2)

Overall Fox has a +9 frame advantage on Diddy for these moves.

Then there's Mario, Luigi, Doc, Marth, MK, Mii Fighter, Pikachu, Sheik, and others who have really good framedata too.

Move | Mario | Luigi | Sheik | Fox
Jab | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2
DashAtk | 6 | 4 | 5 | 4
Ftilt | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6
Utilt | 5 | 5 | 5 |3
Dtilt | 5 | 5 | 5|7
Fsmash | 15 | 12 | 12|13
Usmash | 9 | 9 | 11|8
Dsmash | 5 | 6 | 11|6
Nair | 3 | 3 | 3|4
Fair | 16 | 7 | 5|7
Bair | 6 | 6 | 4|9
Uair | 4 | 5 | 4|9
Dair | 5 | 10 | 15|5
Grab | 6 | 6 | 6|6
DashGrab | 8 | 8 | 8|8
Advantage on Diddy | 8 | 15 | 7 | 9

Overall frameadvantage against Diddy, Pikachu has a -2 disadv, and Marth a -8 disadv. (just to compare more numbers)​

Now look at Diddy Kong... he's a quick and nimble monkey. It makes sense that his framedata is good and fast. It would be stupid otherwise. His character can't be slow, it wouldn't make any sense. That's one thing he has going for him which makes him fundamentally a character who's great in the game. Though in Brawl he lacked a little range and there were less crazy combos, so he had to rely on bananas for most MUs to do well. And also frame 6 standing grab and frame 8 dashgrab is the norm for most characters, so again it wouldn't make sense to make Diddy slower.

A better thing would just be to nerf his uair a little knockbackwise, and maybe think about his fair and sideB, because fair is really safe and shuts down so many appraoch attempts, and sideB's grabrange is still great... it goes way below his animation, catching ducking/small opponents easily, and the grab holds on for a long while, so he can grab you even at almost the end of his sideB, where you might not expect it, so rolling away from that often still gets you grabbed (or kicked).
Diddys (not sideB) grabrange is actually really bad. I think if he gets nerfed a few frames on fair/sideB grablength and get's different knockback on uair it would be good enough to fix everything people have against him perfectly (okay, some might still hate stuff about Diddy but ah well, (almost?) every character has haters). Oh and I guess they could give his uthrow a little more knockback or endinglag so he can't follow up as easily. Maybe 1-3 more frames on dthrow as well to make it a little more difficult.
...But now this goes way too deep into this.

The point was Diddy has great framedata, yeah, but he's not alone, and he should be fast, just looking at him / his character. The framedata is not necessarily the problem here, he'd just need a few little other fixes to make people hate him less.

I don't follow your use of frame data. But by my count it looks as though fox has 6 moves faster than Diddy. Some of which is meaningless. I never said Diddy had the fastest moves for each of his moves but they're some of the fastes in the game.

Of the list though that you gave only shiek to me is the biggest comparison. Her frame data is also absurd across the board. With that said we most also look at the utility of the moveset. Diddy has legit kill set ups which shiek lacks. But that's for another discussion. But after taking move utility and frame data into account. What I mean is what are your characters best spacing tools. For Diddy it's dtilt and fair. Which happens to be among the fastest in the game. Compare that Mario's nair it's not really a spacing tool. But his bair is and that's 6 frames respectfully. Which is the same speed as diddy's fair and slower than his bair.

Also no just no with the Zelda and Shulk MU's vs diddy. Your moves are way to slow to effectively wall out Diddy. I don't care how much monado canceling you do.

 

[Shaya]

y'know what? Fox is probably third in this game when you start to think about the only character out there who does pretty well (undeniably so) against both Sheik and Diddy.
On top of that Fox is the third most popular tournament character when discerning results too.

He isn't seen as "obnoxious" while Rosalina and Sonic are around, but beyond that he's also one of the top tiers who gets A LOT of options with customs.
He gets a Falco laser that's better than Falco's laser (at the cost of transcended priority), aggressive or better recovery options in both up and side-b. Windbox reflector for all things that love wind boxes (actually gives him shine spikes).

As I've said before, if Fox had Falco's grab game, I would probably be putting him as number one. It truly is the only thing he notably lacks as a top tier while having competitive/better numbers in everything else.

 

[andimidna]

I don't even have the custom, but how about that custom samus. Dorelentless missiles hit diddys rocket barrels when he's recovering?

I think maybe pikachu but I'll need to see more although esam vs mvd was a great watch. Palutena just doesn't work a d IDK about mii brawler.

Is there something I don't know that causes diddy to shut down palutena and not others? I don't get this claim

is probaby even with HSB (comparatively early kill mix-ups and a strong neutral game). isn't, because despite HalleluHah she just can't match Diddy's ground game at all. I know little about.

Hmm you seem to be posting something against custom tuna like every 3 pages now. So it comes down to ground game? Kinda weird considering how much of diddy discussion so far has been centered around his aerials- easily where he's strongest. But she's invalidated due to ground game...
Honestly any statements about custom palutena matchups seem way ahead of themselves imo. Viability, ok why not. But matchups? Now? With that certainty, let's slow down here lol

So, what do people think their mains' MU with Diddy actually are?

Easily Rosas worst MU
That's all I wanna say ;-;
I've never seen anyone say this so I guess I'll just throw it out there. I'm starting to think Rosas 2nd worst MU is actually Mario. Built in fly swatter- I mean luma killer with bthrow (lolsalt), deals with her recovery pretty well with little risk, projectile game (surprisingly helpful against rosa), a lot of fast attacks and decent hitboxes all around, with nothing much special I know of going in her favor. Also is dthrow up tilt up tilt guaranteed on any floaties? I've been able to shield the 2nd one but they were just for glory Mario's so idk. Also after all that I don't want to give off the opinion that it's super radical I'm arguing like 60:40 for mario. Nothing unbeatable. And almost equal to her mostly agreed on unfavorable MUs (sheik, pika, sonic)
I haven't seen much Rosa vs Luigi... How's that?

 

[Djent]

is probably around 35:65 to 40:60 with w/ customs enabled. Without them, ugghhh don't want to think about it.

Her aerial kit is definitely better than her grounded normals, but aside from transcendent BAir, what does she have to beat out Diddy's FAir? There's also a slight speed disparity between the two, as her fastest is NAir at 5 whereas Diddy has a frame-3 Swiss army knife.

Keep in mind that Diddy's superior ground game also comes down to vastly better rolls (invisibility is a gimmick when your frame data is still mediocre) and a 4-frame DTilt which is faster than anything Palu has on the ground (her jab and grab are F7).

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

So, what do people think their mains' MU with Diddy actually are?

I personally think Diddy is the second most manageable top tier for Bowser, behind Rosalina. So much that the highest number I'd give to him for the MU is 55, maybe 60. Diddy's only reliable kill move against Bowser's heavy weight is Uair. Diddy generally has to deal 110% ish at the very least before he can kill a good Bowser. Compare that to how Bowser only needs around 80%, and his moves deal anywhere from 7 to 25% damage. He's got a modest range advantage as well, but the issue is, unsurprisingly, how much slower Bowser is than most of the cast. He can't escape Uair/Utilt strings with anything but an airdodge and DI, and that majorly holds him back. His absolute fastest move is a frame 6 OoS Fortress and his jumpsquat is 8 frames (going off of previous games).

My other main is Little Mac, and Diddy is easily his worst MU in my eyes. LM is afraid of a good grab game, and command grabs (only things that will get through super armor). You can try to overwhelm Diddy with speed and power, but he's just got too many ways to get you offstage when you make any sort of mistake. LM also has no means of edgeguarding. And not being able to take advantage of diddy's punishable recovery is a fantastic hindrance.

 

[thehard]

Custom GimR & Watch at Xanadu. More combos, faster kills. Just what you'd expect.

 

[Nobie]

As for the frame data thing, the most ridiculous things would be his aerials and Smashes. For example, Diddy's Side Smash is a frame 12 move that does 16% while Falco's frame 17 Side Smash only does 15%. Diddy's Side Smash also moves him forward more than Falco and most characters; I can only think of Sheik who has a Side Smash that moves her forward by a lot. Then there's the frame 3 Uair/sex kick that everyone's been complaining about.

Kirby's forward smash involves him lunging his entire body forward to throw a kick. That move travels way far, so as far as I can tell it's really good in footsies. If you stick a limb out and it whiffs against Kirby? It's getting kicked, and you're flying off the stage. It's also active on frame 13, does 14-16%, and is one of his strongest KO moves.

This is exactly the sort of thing that defines Kirby as the "bad news when he gets in close, so camp him until the cows come home" character.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

: 45:55. His absurd range combined with MALLC (Monado Art Landing Lag Cancelling) allows him to keep Diddy out rather easily, but once Diddy is in, Shulk suffers the same problems that every other character does.

What?
If you want to make a wall or keep away as a swordsman you're better off with Ike or hell Swordfighter then Shulk. Shulks strengths are elsewhere.

I personally think Diddy is the second most manageable top tier for Bowser, behind Rosalina. So much that the highest number I'd give to him for the MU is 55, maybe 60. Diddy's only reliable kill move against Bowser's heavy weight is Uair. Diddy generally has to deal 110% ish at the very least before he can kill a good Bowser. Compare that to how Bowser only needs around 80%, and his moves deal anywhere from 7 to 25% damage. He's got a modest range advantage as well, but the issue is, unsurprisingly, how much slower Bowser is than most of the cast. He can't escape Uair/Utilt strings with anything but an airdodge and DI, and that majorly holds him back. His absolute fastest move is a frame 6 OoS Fortress and his jumpsquat is 8 frames (going off of previous games).

Wait im confused.
Diddy a character that loves to throw you right above his blinking head...is a close to even match up for Bowser who has one of the worst landing options in this game? What am I missing here?

One of the most suspectible characters to U-throws...vs a character that loves to U/D-throw and has a F3 U-air that can catch pretty much everything Bowser wants to do in the air, including air dodge...with the air speed to follow him. I am so bewildered how is Diddy not pissing on Bowser? Bowsers recovery is easier to intercept then Diddys.

 

[mimgrim]

Mii brawler pls. There needs to be more brawler mains in custom environment ;(

Nah. Won't go towards the Mii's with a ten-foot pole with how they are currently handled in my region (not that I get to play Smash 4 here a lot anyway, read like only one time so far, because of distance johns rofl).

Plus if I do ever go back to Mii, which will only happen when they finally get treated correctly, it will be straight to Gunner.

 

[|RK|]

Kirby's forward smash involves him lunging his entire body forward to throw a kick. That move travels way far, so as far as I can tell it's really good in footsies. If you stick a limb out and it whiffs against Kirby? It's getting kicked, and you're flying off the stage. It's also active on frame 13, does 14-16%, and is one of his strongest KO moves.

This is exactly the sort of thing that defines Kirby as the "bad news when he gets in close, so camp him until the cows come home" character.

You time it wrong and you're just in punish range. And still recovering.

 

[Unknownkid]

You time it wrong and you're just in punish range. And still recovering.

Which is why we cannot toss it around like Diddy can.

 

[Blobface]

I still think Diddy's only nerf should be a general range reduction (including Monkey Flip). Diddy to me seems like a fast and powerful melee fighter, who's weakness should be good spacing. But right now his range and thus his shield pressure are insane, and we all know what happens when you shield against Diddy.



Also, I eagerly await the day when a Ganondorf uses Dark Fists on-stream and everyone calls for it to be banned for a week.
(With that said, I'm noticing a lot of Kong Cyclone support in the VGBC chat. That's nice)
Nevermind

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Wait im confused.
Diddy a character that loves to throw you right above his blinking head...is a close to even match up for Bowser who has one of the worst landing options in this game? What am I missing here?

One of the most suspectible characters to U-throws...vs a character that loves to U/D-throw and has a F3 U-air that can catch pretty much everything Bowser wants to do in the air, including air dodge...with the air speed to follow him. I am so bewildered how is Diddy not pissing on Bowser? Bowsers recovery is easier to intercept then Diddys.

Because none of what you described is new to Bowser's MUs with top tiers. Every character can combo and juggle Bowser, the question is whether Bowser will put himself in a situtation where they are allowed to. And if you try and get up there to hit bowser with an Uair, you better make sure he's still in hitstun by the time you're up. Dair is an excellent whiff punish that will score a kill for this scenario. When maining a character like Bowser, you can't just look at an MU and say "If they grab me, I'm done". That gives you a concrete thing to look out for and attempt to counter. Bowser will try and jab, fortress, or even fire breath the usual rush down. Landing jab in particular will mean heavy damage or even a kill, guaranteed. Check out the Bowser boards if you have to ask why. And if Diddy leaves his banana open to be picked up, the followups from Bowser are insane. Present counter play equals an even matchup.

 

[FullMoon]

So, what do people think their mains' MU with Diddy actually are?

I think Greninja probably loses 55:45 at worst because his great advantaged state, good disadvantaged state and amazing edgeguarding really help dealing with him and if nothing else shurikens can pester Diddy a bit or cancel out his bananas.

Though going from my own experience I think Greninja goes even with Diddy but I guess I'm the only one with that opinion.

 

[Charls]

So, what do people think their mains' MU with Diddy actually are?

From a purely objective standpoint, Pit most likely goes 40:60 at worst vs Diddy. I've written up on the matchup already but some of the main things of note that allow Pit to stand up against Diddy Kong is his great range, fantastic edge-guarding and respectable grab. Diddy has a harder time getting in vs. Pit than against other swordsmen because of our generous auto-cancel windows, but his overbearing strengths still win him the matchup. Personally I see it as 45:55 though.

The Marth matchup on the other hand is 40:60 at best. Not the worst of Marth's top character matchups - even less so with customs -, but Diddy's toolset gives him free stage control which beats our footsies cleanly for the most part.

 

[Ulevo]

From a purely objective standpoint, Pit most likely goes 40:60 at worst vs Diddy. I've written up on the matchup already but some of the main things of note that allow Pit to stand up against Diddy Kong is his great range, fantastic edge-guarding and respectable grab. Diddy has a harder time getting in vs. Pit than against other swordsmen because of our generous auto-cancel windows, but his overbearing strengths still win him the matchup. Personally I see it as 45:55 though.

The Marth matchup on the other hand is 40:60 at best. Not the worst of Marth's top character matchups - even less so with customs -, but Diddy's toolset gives him free stage control which beats our footsies cleanly for the most part.

I might be speaking out of turn here since I don't main either character, but I think the reason Pit would perform well is Pit doesn't have any real weaknesses. He's not particularly top tier in any one aspect, but what exactly does he lack? The characters has almost everything. Disjointed hitboxes, a good projectile, a spike, reliable kill moves, good combos, good damage, a reflector, a super armor move, good recovery, excellent frame data, multiple jumps, and the list goes on.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think Greninja probably loses 55:45 at worst because his great advantaged state, good disadvantaged state and amazing edgeguarding really help dealing with him and if nothing else shurikens can pester Diddy a bit or cancel out his bananas.

Though going from my own experience I think Greninja goes even with Diddy but I guess I'm the only one with that opinion.

How the hell does Greninja hit advantage with any reliability vs Diddy?

 

[FullMoon]

How the hell does Greninja hit advantage with any reliability vs Diddy?

He does have one of the best dash grabs in the game and I'd say he's got one of the better grab games as well.

I never found it particularly difficult to get a grab on Diddy because it only takes one mistake from the Diddy to allow Greninja to get in with his high speed + long ranged dash grab.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Also, I eagerly await the day when a Ganondorf uses Dark Fists on-stream and everyone calls for it to be banned for a week.
(With that said, I'm noticing a lot of Kong Cyclone support in the VGBC chat. That's nice)
Nevermind

> tfw

Smooth Criminal

 

[|RK|]

Okay... Halberd should maybe not be legal, lol

 

[andimidna]

Okay... Halberd should maybe not be legal, lol

lol what happened this time c:

 

[|RK|]

lol what happened this time c:

Average Joe counterpicked Halberd for the last match of GF versus Boss. Average Joe was doing very well - a stock up, had Boss at decent percent off-stage. Laser targets Boss and hits. Boss SDIs out, but he's too low! Fails to recover and dies.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I'm surprised that the complaint actually wasn't something about someone's uair killing at 20% near the blastzone lol.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Average Joe counterpicked Halberd for the last match of GF versus Boss. Average Joe was doing very well - a stock up, had Boss at decent percent off-stage. Laser targets Boss and hits. Boss SDIs out, but he's too low! Fails to recover and dies.

How did that even happen? Don't they have like 98757615928364 seconds of warning before the laser? How could he not be prepared to avoid a crappy position?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

He does have one of the best dash grabs in the game and I'd say he's got one of the better grab games as well.

I never found it particularly difficult to get a grab on Diddy because it only takes one mistake from the Diddy to allow Greninja to get in with his high speed + long ranged dash grab.

What kinda follow ups does greninja ger from a grab? Is it only low percentages stuff? I don't believe his grab game is anything special follow up wise. Not when where talking about diddy. Then there's falcon luigi zss marth/lucina (with customs). Doc Mario Mario ROB Shiek there's probably others I'm forgetting probably.

 

[|RK|]

How did that even happen? Don't they have like 98757615928364 seconds of warning before the laser? How could he not be prepared to avoid a crappy position?

The target follows you, though. Plus he's fighting Average Joe at the same time, who knocked him off the stage. I don't see how the warning excuses it.

 

[Locke 06]

How did that even happen? Don't they have like 98757615928364 seconds of warning before the laser? How could he not be prepared to avoid a crappy position?

Or, he was forced into a crappy position, in which case we should be applauding the good play of Average Joe. Using the Halberd Laser to edge guard your opponent is a very strong play.

 

[Project Quarantine]

I don't even have the custom, but how about that custom samus. Dorelentless missiles hit diddys rocket barrels when he's recovering?

Is there something I don't know that causes diddy to shut down palutena and not others? I don't get this claim

Hmm you seem to be posting something against custom tuna like every 3 pages now. So it comes down to ground game? Kinda weird considering how much of diddy discussion so far has been centered around his aerials- easily where he's strongest. But she's invalidated due to ground game...
Honestly any statements about custom palutena matchups seem way ahead of themselves imo. Viability, ok why not. But matchups? Now? With that certainty, let's slow down here lol

Easily Rosas worst MU
That's all I wanna say ;-;
I've never seen anyone say this so I guess I'll just throw it out there. I'm starting to think Rosas 2nd worst MU is actually Mario. Built in fly swatter- I mean luma killer with bthrow (lolsalt), deals with her recovery pretty well with little risk, projectile game (surprisingly helpful against rosa), a lot of fast attacks and decent hitboxes all around, with nothing much special I know of going in her favor. Also is dthrow up tilt up tilt guaranteed on any floaties? I've been able to shield the 2nd one but they were just for glory Mario's so idk. Also after all that I don't want to give off the opinion that it's super radical I'm arguing like 60:40 for mario. Nothing unbeatable. And almost equal to her mostly agreed on unfavorable MUs (sheik, pika, sonic)
I haven't seen much Rosa vs Luigi... How's that?

Rosa vs Luigi is pretty bad for wigi unless you can 0-death. Otherwise, getting in is very difficult.

Actually, if Luma is knocked away (which isn't too hard for luigi), the mu is very livable. Still, Rosa 60/40 at worst for Rosa

 

[FullMoon]

What kinda follow ups does greninja ger from a grab? Is it only low percentages stuff? I don't believe his grab game is anything special follow up wise. Not when where talking about diddy. Then there's falcon luigi zss marth/lucina (with customs). Doc Mario Mario ROB Shiek there's probably others I'm forgetting probably.

Up-Throw -> Up-Air works well for the most part, Down-Throw -> Shadow Sneak catches people offguard a lot from my experience, plus while Greninja doesn't get anything guaranteed, by baiting the opponent you can really mess them up after a throw.

Though I do admit I went a bit ahead of myself there and Greninja's grab game isn't really that great, but just by grabbing the opponent he's already placing them in a bad position where Greninja can really juggle the opponent and keep them from landing. Diddy does have Monkey Flip but it's not that hard to see that Diddy is going to go for it so you can trap Diddy into flying right into one of your attacks.

I still feel like Greninja's only bad MUs are Sonic, Sheik and Fox, in that order. But eh, even if he does lose to Diddy it's not that big of a deal considering most of the cast does.

 

[Blobface]

> tfw

Smooth Criminal

I'll never get sick of that face. It's supposed to be a cocky smile since Ganon just grabbed you and is about to blow your face off, but when you look at it from that camera angle, he just looks really annoyed. I seriously hope at least one stream makes this an emote.

Also, does S@X have any good Diddys? I can't think of any time a Diddy has done well at S@X.

 

[thehard]

I'll never get sick of that face. It's supposed to be a cocky smile since Ganon just grabbed you and is about to blow your face off, but when you look at it from that camera angle, he just looks really annoyed. I seriously hope at least one stream makes this an emote.

Also, does S@X have any good Diddys? I can't think of any time a Diddy has done well at S@X.

Logic

Congrats to Average Joe for that 1st place by the way. He is a legitimately good DK

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Up-Throw -> Up-Air works well for the most part, Down-Throw -> Shadow Sneak catches people offguard a lot from my experience, plus while Greninja doesn't get anything guaranteed, by baiting the opponent you can really mess them up after a throw.

Though I do admit I went a bit ahead of myself there and Greninja's grab game isn't really that great, but just by grabbing the opponent he's already placing them in a bad position where Greninja can really juggle the opponent and keep them from landing. Diddy does have Monkey Flip but it's not that hard to see that Diddy is going to go for it so you can trap Diddy into flying right into one of your attacks.

I still feel like Greninja's only bad MUs are Sonic, Sheik and Fox, in that order. But eh, even if he does lose to Diddy it's not that big of a deal considering most of the cast does.

3 bad MUs?

 

[Blobface]

I'm certain at this point that Ganondorf has a 45:55 against Diddy with customs. Diddy's matchup against Ganon wasn't very favorable to begin with (about 4:6), but Dark Fists is basically a "NOPE" button to everything Diddy does in the air that kills at 80% grounded and what-the-heck-even-am-I-looking-at %'s if you land it in midair. That's not to say Ganon can just mash Dark Fists every single time Diddy jumps, but even just the threat of getting killed at <50% can limit Diddy. Still in Diddy's favor though.

 

[FullMoon]

3 bad MUs?

Yes. Unless you can name others. The only one I can think of is Meta Knight and even then it's just a maybe.

 

[Kofu]

Custom GimR & Watch at Xanadu. More combos, faster kills. Just what you'd expect.

Do you know what set he was running/where I can find videos? I was at work but I'd really like to see this.

 

[thehard]

Do you know what set he was running/where I can find videos? I was at work but I'd really like to see this.

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/644145798
Pretty sure it was 3221

 

[Shaya]

From a purely objective standpoint, Pit most likely goes 40:60 at worst vs Diddy.

I was really into your post. But objectivity would at least hint that what you're saying is some sort of non-construed fact. If you replace this with subjective you have everything going for you.

If Pit had a faster jab he'd be a significantly scarier character. The main thing holding him back from being above average to great in everything. His CQC is like... dsmash (although fast and rarely punishable), pretty meh.

Greninja can throw an uncharged shuriken and have a semblance of victory during the neutral game against Diddy beyond Banana-play.
Fair can compete with fair...
Yeah there's dash grab... that's the main thing.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Yes. Unless you can name others. The only one I can think of is Meta Knight and even then it's just a maybe.

I'm not sure who greninja loses to 3 bad MUs seem off to me.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm not sure who greninja loses to 3 bad MUs seem off to me.

In this game, it might not be a surprise for characters not to get royally screwed over by a lot of MUs, then again, define "bad" since Ganondorf going 0:100 Ice Climbers is bad, terrible, horrible, "Please, Hylia, NO!", and to the masochists out there, "fun".

Oh, and Sonic.

I think I've done this 50 times in a row now, just letting it sink into my head that everything about this exists.