Character Competitive Impressions

[Balgorxz]

sup falco mains I finally found a way to consistenly get the perfect landing on fast fire bird but isn't as useful as the ground version of the falco somersault but its much easier.
we all know falco can perform a perfect landing by landing right after the end of falco's somersault, this can be done by doing an angled input of fast fire bird but honestly the direction is really strict and its not easy to do.
the perfect landing will end in falco landing with no lagg and carrying the momentum from the fast fire bird making falco to get attacks instantly with increased range right after landing.
Today I found a way to consistently get the aerial version of the falco somersault perfect landing with no difficult inputs just short hop double jump with falco right after the animation of the second jump start input fast firebird to the side, this will end with falco performing a falco somersault and landing perfectly ready to attack or grab.

 

[bc1910]

Can't 100% guarantee this, but I bet at some point Smashboards will have an official tier list they recognize. I know my tier lists on reddit really do have issues, but at least it can hold us over for the time being. Once Mewtwo comes out if nothing really big happens I'll organize a serious effort to get things done alongside the monthly voted stuff.

Your tier lists do not hold us over at all, they are glorified popularity tests. Your lists mean nothing and are nowhere near objective enough. They value character popularity above all else. Sorry to disappoint, but I'm 100% sure anyone half-informed about the game shares the same opinion.

 

[Balgorxz]

what's the best way to put an mp4 video in here? a gif converter or something?

 

[Locke 06]

Jr.'s effective weight is Charizard's (115).
His true weight via data mining is Samus' (108).

Not sure why people don't just click over to the academy unless they're on mobile or have dial-up.

RE @SmashCapps Reddit Tier Lists: They're inaccurate representations of the metagame, but they are somewhat accurate representations of how the "spectators" of Smash 4 see the metagame. A very valuable thing, if the more knowledgeable community wants to try and educate the less knowledgeable. This is the same with the Smashboards community tier list.

Meanwhile, tier lists that are generated by players who have success in high level play are generally considered more accurate, but there is not one that is without holes. Shi-G's tier list is interesting, as it takes ideas from 10 players and puts them together. However, I'm sure the Japanese community does not take that tier list to be their bible, because even top players do not know the lesser played matchups in the game. If you don't actually know how Zelda does vs ZSS, what justification do you have for putting her last in a tier list? Because others do?

 

[Smog Frog]

http://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator

 

[Balgorxz]

Anyways a small video where it shows how much distance falco travels after getting a perfect landing after somersault, usmash is first then 2 dsmash, I've been trying this for 3 hours and my success rate of getting this right is like 70%.
I can do the grounded version too but it's much harder.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Rock vs Emperor Penguin is 7-3 if Rock is feeling merciful.

Or he has a computer virus.

Any other time it's legit 9-1.

You will NOT win a set vs a competent opponent.

EVER

It's 8:2 at the worst, dude. 9:1 virtually means I can't press any buttons at all when I clearly can.

I know I'm kinda splitting hairs here because it's unwinnable no matter which way you slice it, but a ratio like 9:1 is hyperbole. lol

Smooth Criminal

 

[StripedNinja]

So I'm curious to hear all your thoughts on what characters you think would compliment Oli as a sub main, like which characters best cover his weaknesses.

 

[FullMoon]

vs = Germany vs Brazil

Oh man I laughed so hard that day. I was following the results through my computer and at first I saw it was 1-0 and I was like "Huh, well I guess they can still make a comeback, it just started" then I went to do my own things and then a couple minutes later I looked at it and then it was 3-0 and I was like "Wut."

That was probably my favorite day of the World Cup. That probably shows just how much I care about soccer.

 

[S_B]

Mos of the time when I see people talk about "heavies" what they actually mean are "fatties".

Pretty much, and Bowser, DK and D3 are the fattest in all regards.

 

[Smog Frog]

only d3 is truly fat; dk and bowser are just muscular.

 

[Balgorxz]

I found some attacks don't carry the momentum from the fast fire bird but they are still instant.

 

[Anomilus]

The clown car takes reduced damage (and by extension knockback), while hitting his body directly causes bonus damage.

I'm a little fuzzy on the numbers but I think it's something like x0.88 if the car's hit and x1.15 if Bowser Jr's hit

Perhaps that explains that weird video a few months back where a Rosalina killed a Bowser Jr. at like 20% with an Up-Tilt on Final Destination. I suggested several factors that may have contributed to it: Rage, move freshness, bad DI... But this mechanic may further explain what happened. Too bad I can't find the video.

 

[Teshie U]

So whats so bad about Megaman vs DDD? I know pellets send gordos back, but assuming the DDD is smart enough to not use gordos, whats so tragic for DDD that isn't also tragic for DK, Bowser, charizard etc.

 

[Lavani]

Perhaps that explains that weird video a few months back where a Rosalina killed a Bowser Jr. at like 20% with an Up-Tilt on Final Destination. I suggested several factors that may have contributed to it: Rage, move freshness, bad DI... But this mechanic may further explain what happened. Too bad I can't find the video.

Yeah, Luma's utilt hits Bowser Jr.'s body instead of the clown car. This video, right? It was a combination of factors:

1. Luma's sweetspot utilt has very high base knockback (120)
2. Rosalina had 110% worth of rage
3. knockback increases by x1.2 when you're hit while charging a smash.
4. Death without the black lightning graphic suggests bad DI.
5. Luma hit Bowser Jr. instead of the car, so x1.15 damage+more knockback.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

So whats so bad about Megaman vs DDD? I know pellets send gordos back, but assuming the DDD is smart enough to not use gordos, whats so tragic for DDD that isn't also tragic for DK, Bowser, charizard etc.

King DeDeDe is overall the slowest heavy, meaning that he will have the toughest time trying to get in on Mega Man while MM can just keep pelting him from a distance and has an easier time running away from him in comparison to the other heavies.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

So whats so bad about Megaman vs DDD? I know pellets send gordos back, but assuming the DDD is smart enough to not use gordos, whats so tragic for DDD that isn't also tragic for DK, Bowser, charizard etc.

i can say that bowsers tough guys does mean somthing.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Recently been trying out Falco. I honestly don't see how someone with such good frame data and grab game can really be THAT bad. I think he's average. Bair is seriously dangerous, even coming from DK's Bair. His up air combos from up throw and kills, he can use shine for spacing and stuff and perfect pivot down tilt helps with spacing too (Gimr hit the lab with that one. He uses it regularly). I just think you gotta bait and punish with him instead of trying to rush people down or zone with lasers. Seriously, those days are gone. Now, it's baiting and punishing with Falco. And edgeguarding. With customs, Falco becomes pretty viable if you ask me.

 

[Seagull Joe]

How does one DI 's waft for survival? What direction?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Recently been trying out Falco. I honestly don't see how someone with such good frame data and grab game can really be THAT bad. I think he's average. Bair is seriously dangerous, even coming from DK's Bair. His up air combos from up throw and kills, he can use shine for spacing and stuff and perfect pivot down tilt helps with spacing too (Gimr hit the lab with that one. He uses it regularly). I just think you gotta bait and punish with him instead of trying to rush people down or zone with lasers. Seriously, those days are gone. Now, it's baiting and punishing with Falco. And edgeguarding. With customs, Falco becomes pretty viable if you ask me.

fast fire bird wants a word with that no rush down playstyle.

 

[Antonykun]

Except for Wario, these guys are the Shotos of Smash. They play differently, but you still group them.

Wario is gouken

 

[outfoxd]

Wario is gouken

I'll buy that Waft is Shun Goku Satsu.

 

[HeroMystic]

It should be noted that if you DI upwards, you increase the knockback you take. Generally, when you DI any move that gives horizontal knockback, you want to DI towards the stage. You only want to DI upwards to avoid attack strings as much as possible (such as with Diddy's D-throw to U-air).

 

[ParanoidDrone]

It should be noted that if you DI upwards, you increase the knockback you take. Generally, when you DI any move that gives horizontal knockback, you want to DI towards the stage. You only want to DI upwards to avoid attack strings as much as possible (such as with Diddy's D-throw to U-air).

Not going to lie, I have no idea what to make of the DI mechanics in this game.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Not going to lie, I have no idea what to make of the DI mechanics in this game.

It's simple, actually.

The DI inputs for this game are kind of like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrmnJgwDVxI

Master this and you will know how to DI in Smash 4.

 

[HeroMystic]

General rules for DI is:

-If you get hit horizontally, DI towards the stage.
-If you get hit vertically, DI away from your opponent and downwards.

The only real baffling part about DI is the vectoring which makes DI super weird in comparison to the rest of the series (but not nearly as broken as momentum canceling). Once you understand it though it's extremely helpful for minimizing the damage from combo characters. For example, it makes ZSS's Up-B death combos significantly less viable (DI towards her to make the Up-B miss. If you're caught in it, DI downwards to not die at sub 90% on FD), and I constantly manage to live over 130% given I don't get bopped by something really nasty.

 

[Sinister Slush]

They should've just kept DI the way it was from Brawl.

 

[Balgorxz]

I heard you guys like grab range

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I heard you guys like grab range

That's pretty awesome falco is looking pretty sweet with customs. Can you use that move to tech chase after any of falco's throws and does it ledge cancel?

 

[Balgorxz]

That's pretty awesome falco is looking pretty sweet with customs. Can you use that move to tech chase after any of falco's throws and does it ledge cancel?

the ground version of the ffb perfect landing slide can be used for tech chase, too bad I haven't found a way to do the ground version consistently.

 

[Thinkaman]

One comment regarding all this talk of heavies:

In general, the single best answer for fixing the matchup skill-skew naturally caused by the speed and juggle weaknesses of heavies is carefully placed super armor.

It's frustrating unless done precisely, though. (See Kong Cyclone)


I lied, two comments:

A handicap of heavies unique to Smash Bros. is the design of "FFA moves" in their movesets. Since these are usually specials, this is why we see heavies benefiting the most on average from customs--trading in their dubious FFA specials for 1v1-focused moves.

 

[Blobface]

Just out of curiosity, where would you place super armor on heavies?

 

[HeroMystic]

The way how Little Mac's Super Armor works would be similar to how I would place it on heavies.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Little Mac's armor to me seems like something you don't rely in, rather something you have as a backup to keep yourself anchored.

So in that sense, his smash attacks feel like pseudo-counter moves to me, at least when I fight against him.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Kind of relevant, but according to Sakurai in an interview that came out this morning regarding the Mewtwo DLC (and I'm quoting him here) he's coming "soon"

Leave it to Sakurai to be all vague about everything. Anyways, we get a new stage from this update, so that's fun, even though it's basically a glorified battlefield. What else... tournament mode is pretty hype. Not that I expect it to be used by the competitive community, for a multitude of reasons, but the main reason I'm excited for it is that it gives an alternative to For Glory that actually shows how I stack up against others. So yeah. Can't wait for literally everyone to become a Mewtwo main for like a week.

 

[warionumbah2]

I recommend taking advantage of the NewTwo's online to get a general idea of his weaknesses, like i already sort of know that he'll be a tall and light character based on Melee.

Even though the NewTwo's on day 1 will suck its better than nothing i suppose.

 

[Blobface]

Well a lot of the complaints about Heavies have centered around "What's the point of doing 15% per hit when your opponent can get 50% off a frame-tight combo" since Heavies get juggled so hard. While super armor on Smashes would be nice, it doesn't really help with juggling.

And super armor on Aerials would be the jankiest jank to ever jank. Heavies can outright kill you from 50% with an aerial offstage. Even just having armor on start-up would be ridiculous.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Well a lot of the complaints about Heavies have centered around "What's the point of doing 15% per hit when your opponent can get 50% off a frame-tight combo" since Heavies get juggled so hard. While super armor on Smashes would be nice, it doesn't really help with juggling.

And super armor on Aerials would be the jankiest jank to ever jank. Heavies can outright kill you from 50% with an aerial offstage. Even just having armor on start-up would be ridiculous.

Well, if Bowser had super armor on, say, his down special then basically no one could juggle him ever unless it was a true combo. It would also become a terrifying move in general in that your only option to avoid it is to GTFO since it already breaks shields.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I'm curious to see how Mewtwo's teleport is gonna be in this game. If it is a good move with minimal lag and can be acted out of, he'll have one of the best movement abilities in the game.

I realise the character has yet to be released, but speculation hype is real

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

I'm curious to see how Mewtwo's teleport is gonna be in this game. If it is a good move with minimal lag and can be acted out of, he'll have one of the best movement abilities in the game.

I realize the character has yet to be released, but speculation hype is real

Not to mention, he will have custom moves.

CUSTOM TELEPORTS

CUSTOM SHADOW BALLS

AN ACTUAL DOWN B AND SIDE B THAT AREN'T WORTHLESS (HOPEFULLY)

HYPE