Character Competitive Impressions

[Road Death Wheel]

You can DEFINITELY do one of a few things like I listed before:

After the D-Throw, you can just jump or air dodge the attack.
If it actually connects, DI the following directions: ,, or to escape it.
If you are hit by the last hit, ALWAYS DI the angle you're hit; you will be sent too far for her reach.

That Samus video is just a troll. It can't work against truly competitive players or players who can DI out of it well. Anyone competent enough can make this thing useless.

from what i do know DIing from d throw from 0-20% is either extremely hard or impossible for some characters.

 

[Teshie U]

What is this Samus video?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

What is this Samus video?

go a page back and find larry's post with the link.

 

[Teshie U]

Won't load properly for me. Is it just dthrow fair fair fair something?

My success rate with fair is as bad as upsmash. It just doesn't even link properly for me. I can't imagine fair being a major part of her combo game.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Won't load properly for me. Is it just dthrow fair fair fair something?

My success rate with fair is as bad as upsmash. It just doesn't even link properly for me. I can't imagine fair being a major part of her combo game.

Oh lol fair is a big part of her combo game though its really easy to link it right. U smash.... well i havent figured out how to consistantly link u smash.

But yeah fair land in a whole load of her combo's full linkage and all u just dont use it on the way down. always on the way up. or just before apex of the jump.

and yeah the combo is just d throw fair fast fall auto cancel jump another fair fast fall auto cancel jump fair again than fast fall offstage second jump fair for kill. Yeah im skeptical as well.

 

[Ffamran]

Oh lol fair is a big part of her combo game though its really easy to link it right. U smash.... well i havent figured out how to consistantly link u smash.

But yeah fair land in a whole load of her combo's full linkage and all u just dont use it on the way down. always on the way up. or just before apex of the jump.

I hate her Uair so much! I just fought a really good Samus who would bait you near the ledge and Uair juggle you from the ledge. Her Uair is so good and so freaking annoying! Also, I felt the power of OOS Screw Attack...

Combined with Fair, Uair, Zair, and hell, a read with Charge Shot, Samus has options if she's at the ledge.

Fox's little range makes me feel sad when his Ftilt does nothing while Samus's slaps a metal boot to his face... Speaking of which, Fox's Dair. How much of it affects his game, especially landing and preventing people from challenging him in the air. Nair's a sex kick, so it makes sense, but Dair staying out for that long makes Fox feel a bit safe if he's in the air and someone screws up a follow up.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I hate her Uair so much! I just fought a really good Samus who would bait you near the ledge and Uair juggle you from the ledge. Her Uair is so good and so freaking annoying! Also, I felt the power of OOS Screw Attack...

Combined with Fair, Uair, Zair, and hell, a read with Charge Shot, Samus has options if she's at the ledge.

Fox's little range makes me feel sad when his Ftilt does nothing while Samus's slaps a metal boot to his face... Speaking of which, Fox's Dair. How much of it affects his game, especially landing and preventing people from challenging him in the air. Nair's a sex kick, so it makes sense, but Dair staying out for that long makes Fox feel a bit safe if he's in the air and someone screws up a follow up.

Yeah samus ledge play aint all that terrible edge gaurding or not.

Also finally people understanding the power of her u air. Its great! Only some prattling little monkey has been roaming around with his big shiny title of "jank u air"

 

[Nabbitnator]

You can DEFINITELY do one of a few things like I listed before:

After the D-Throw, you can just jump or air dodge the attack.
If it actually connects, DI the following directions: ,, or to escape it.
If you are hit by the last hit, ALWAYS DI the angle you're hit; you will be sent too far for her reach.

That Samus video is just a troll. It can't work against truly competitive players or players who can DI out of it well. Anyone competent enough can make this thing useless.

It kind of irritates me that eventhubs makes such misleading headlines. Mostly towards the newer players with stuff like that. Even the computer doesn't get caught in it.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

It kind of irritates me that eventhubs makes such misleading headlines. Mostly towards the newer players with stuff like that. Even the computer doesn't get caught in it.

Have you seen there tier lists? its painfull.

 

[Ffamran]

Yeah samus ledge play aint all that terrible edge gaurding or not.

Also finally people understanding the power of her u air. Its great! Only some prattling little monkey has been roaming around with his big shiny title of "jank u air"

I don't fight Samus enough nor do I fight good ones. You and like 3 others I can remember as being good Samus players and one of them was a dirtbag who ragequitted after losing to Falco twice when I wanted to mess around as Little Mac, Yoshi, and Link. Long story short, he would teabag constantly while waiting for me to do stuff. Good Samus, horrible player. Anyway, I digress.

The thing is I just didn't know Samus could do that since I don't see anyone doing that. It's like getting launched into a combo by Fox's Dtilt, seeing aMSa Dair to help his recovery, getting hit by Ganondorf using D-throw to Wizard's Foot or the run-off Uair, getting hit by a Pit using Upperdash Arm from the ledge, seeing NinjaLink use Leaf Shield with grab, or finding out that Link and Toon Link's pivot Ftilts are awesome. Most of the time, I just see regular stuff like, punishing whiffed attacks, comboing out of D-throw, and spamming, a lot of spamming...

I don't think I've ever fought a Link or Toon Link who used pivots and I rarely see people Jab to tilts like what Fox, Triple D, and Sheik can do. There are a ton of cookie cutter stuff like Diddy, Ness, and Luigi's D-throw shenanigans, Mario's Uair, Uair, to Super Jump Punch combo, or Sheik Fair chains. The sad part is when they fail them... I mean seriously, how could you mess up Luigi's combo out of D-throw?

 

[|RK|]

This Diddy Kong is hilarious. Is it a custom Rocketbarrel that lets him fly under Smashville that freely?

 

[Yikarur]

the default upB goes extremely far.

 

[Nabbitnator]

You can DEFINITELY do one of a few things like I listed before:

After the D-Throw, you can just jump or air dodge the attack.
If it actually connects, DI the following directions: ,, or to escape it.
If you are hit by the last hit, ALWAYS DI the angle you're hit; you will be sent too far for her reach.

That Samus video is just a troll. It can't work against truly competitive players or players who can DI out of it well. Anyone competent enough can make this thing useless.

It kind of irritates me that eventhubs makes such misleading headlines. Mostly towards the newer players with stuff like that. Even the computer doesn't get caught in it.

Have you seen there tier lists? its painfull.

They should get rid of the tier list and go back the chart format for their games. It had better accurate data compared to this. Viewer votes just means trolls. Recently for a lot of fighters its been very inaccurate over there. As for diddy it would have been nice if his up b wasn't chargable but had a fixed distance both vertically and horizontally.

 

[Antonykun]

Yeah samus ledge play aint all that terrible edge gaurding or not.

Also finally people understanding the power of her u air. Its great! Only some prattling little monkey has been roaming around with his big shiny title of "jank u air"

I've been trying to sell Swordfighter's U-air to people but no ones buying

Can we discuss Counter Timber real quick all the talk of bans is starting to worry me.

 

[thehard]

Yeah, I saw a big SoCal debate on Timber Counter a few days ago. Although by the end of it people were offering solutions and telling others to get over it, it's not being banned, which is good by me.

Piford said this elsewhere and I thought of it a little while ago myself: if you want to "nerf" Timber Counter, play on more transformation/transition stages and legalize more of them (like Skyloft and Wuhu).

 

[Nu~]

I've been trying to sell Swordfighter's U-air to people but no ones buying

Can we discuss Counter Timber real quick all the talk of bans is starting to worry me.

Well, as a Pac-Main...Counter Timber is of no concern to me.

I don't think the move should be banned though. At least not before "Dong Cyclone" THAT move is just ****ing asinine lol

 

[PK Gaming]

It certainly does. expecially in certain mu's like pit and rosa.

In the grand scheme of things. It's not that detrimental.

 

[HeavyLobster]

As far as Samus's fair strings go, I don't think I've ever been caught in more than 2 in a row and I play as Ganondorf and have bad combo DI, so if I'm not getting destroyed by it no decent player is. It's just a headache that they pose as any sort of legitimate source of competitive info. I've seen Youtube comments on a Charizard highlight video saying he was trash because of the Eventhubs tier list. The various tier lists on Smashboards are shaky enough as is and we don't need ones floating around with blatantly inaccurate stuff like Link being 10th best or DK being dead last contributing to the confusion.

 

[Dre89]

Well, as a Pac-Main...Counter Timber is of no concern to me.

I don't think the move should be banned though. At least not before "Dong Cyclone" THAT move is just ****ing asinine lol

Cyclone is fine. You can't contest it but it's avoidable and punishable. Also I'm pretty sure you can DI the hitbox. Lots of times people just get windboxed out of the move without taking any damage.

 

[19_]

I've been trying to sell Swordfighter's U-air to people but no ones buying

Can we discuss Counter Timber real quick all the talk of bans is starting to worry me.

Sooner or later I feel like Zero will end up Maining/pocketing Villager. This video is giving me hope, knowing that Zero picked up Diddy after saying he should be banned.

 

[Hippieslayer]

the zig zag can seems extremely powerful to me, if you master timing it you have a lot of control over its trajectory, if you master it you should be able to fight close to it without getting hit by it. It just gives duck hunt dog so many more options, use it to combo, to counter, to zone, to punish retreats as well as approaches, heck it can be used in an endless amount of ways

its certainly not an easy move to use, on the contrary its probably one of the very hardest in the game, but the potential just seems huge

 

[Teshie U]

Counter timber might truly just be one of those polarizing things. It doesn't really help him against ranged or disjointed characters that can reach in and hit him while he is hiding back there.

I'd want to just wait it out and see what happens.

 

[thehard]

Sooner or later I feel like Zero will end up Maining/pocketing Villager. This video is giving me hope, knowing that Zero picked up Diddy after saying he should be banned.

Is he still practicing with Falcon and Shulk?

 

[Antonykun]

Sooner or later I feel like Zero will end up Maining/pocketing Villager. This video is giving me hope, knowing that Zero picked up Diddy after saying he should be banned.

Zero maining Villager?
Wait... we already do dirty, dirty things. I'm legitimately afraid of Zero's theoretical Villager.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Zero maining Villager?
Wait... we already do dirty, dirty things. I'm legitimately afraid of Zero's theoretical Villager.

The memes will be fulfilled. The land will be awash in blood from the wrath of Killager thanks to his new and improved torture devices.

 

[Dre89]

What's the general consensus on Pika atm

Personally I reckon he's top 3, but he takes time and no one is likely to prove it with results now that ESAM has quit

 

[warriorman222]

Zero maining Villager?
Wait... we already do dirty, dirty things. I'm legitimately afraid of Zero's theoretical Villager.

Killager Victim Survival Count(KVSC for short): Z3R0.

Seriously, if ZeRo mains VIllager, he might cause enough bulls*** to actually ban the character.

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

Timber Counter's real good. I've just learned to play around it, like anything else. Not going to pretend it's easy though, It's definitely tough. Some characters have it easier than others obviously, and I don't believe Falcon is one of them in this case.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

^^ I definitely agree. Though Timber Counter is really good, it can be played around if you're careful and you know what you're doing. I don't believe it should be banned, but that isn't my choice lol so we'll see what happens to it in the future.

 

[warriorman222]

Timber Counter's real good. I've just learned to play around it, like anything else. Not going to pretend it's easy though, It's definitely tough. Some characters have it easier than others obviously, and I don't believe Falcon is one of them in this case.

Yeah. Flacon isn't gonna like it. Ground characters almost auto-lose to this one move. Little Mac loses to Villager because he can't do anything at all about that sprout. He can Jolt Haymaker over it, and we know how that ends: DEATH. armoring through it.

It can be played around, but Jigs and Villager are the only characters that aren't seriously affected by this. I'm serious when I say enough bulls*** can happen to ban it, or all customs. This is a serious problem not because it's broken, or even OP, but because it's BS(annoying) enough to look broken. It's Little Mac, except that everyone will be thinking it's OP, and nobody will think it's terrible.

We need a way to convince people that this move is simply annoying, not busted. What do we do?

 

[Nu~]

Hey as long as Pac-Man's meteor trampoline is legal,(you know, the gigantic pitfall that you can place in the middle of the stage)
I think that timber counter should stay legal.

 

[warriorman222]

Hey as long as Pac-Man's meteor trampoline is legal,(you know, the gigantic pitfall that you can place in the middle of the stage)
I think that timber counter should stay legal.

Problem is, giant pitfall is easy to avoid, and jumping isn't so bad since Pac-Man's gimp game and air game aren't Jigs tier. Villager will just pelt you with rocks if you jump, bury you if you roll, pirouette if you SH, and bthrow you if you trip.

 

[19_]

Yeah. Flacon isn't gonna like it. Ground characters almost auto-lose to this one move. Little Mac loses to Villager because he can't do anything at all about that sprout. He can Jolt Haymaker over it, and we know how that ends: DEATH. armoring through it.

It can be played around, but Jigs and Villager are the only characters that aren't seriously affected by this. I'm serious when I say enough bulls*** can happen to ban it, or all customs. This is a serious problem not because it's broken, or even OP, but because it's BS(annoying) enough to look broken. It's Little Mac, except that everyone will be thinking it's OP, and nobody will think it's terrible.

We need a way to convince people that this move is simply annoying, not busted. What do we do?

Villager is fun to watch so I don't think people will complain as much as they do about Diddy. I may be wrong though.

 

[Nu~]

Problem is, giant pitfall is easy to avoid, and jumping isn't so bad since Pac-Man's gimp game and air game aren't Jigs tier. Villager will just pelt you with rocks if you jump, bury you if you roll, pirouette if you SH, and bthrow you if you trip.

Well let's see:

-You can't roll around my trampoline without getting buried and then you can hold a free inky/Side B
-you eat a key/orange/bell if you jump or SH

We don't need to use aerials when we have a fruit for your next approach. Hell, throw in an on fire hydrant and you can't even come near the trampoline without getting burned. Meanwhile I can charge to whatever fruit I'll need for future use.

What gives villager's timber counter an edge is how easy it is to set up. We can't set it up as casually because we suffer a little bit of landing lag

 

[Lavani]

Keep in mind that when Villager takes Timber Counter, they're giving up their frame 6, air usable, B-reversable, disjointed, ~100% killing axe. The axe with Timber Counter is significantly weaker and gives up its kill power entirely.

 

[Teshie U]

Keep in mind that when Villager takes Timber Counter, they're giving up their frame 6, air usable, B-reversable, disjointed, ~100% killing axe. The axe with Timber Counter is significantly weaker and gives up its kill power entirely.

People point this out alot, but I'm not sure having Axe as a kill move is as important as timber counter for this character design. Villager has all of his aerials killings, bowling ball covering rolls safely and is really more about stage control. Outfitting him for that I think is more relevant than another laggy kill move he can throw out.

The Axe has value, but I don't think its nearly as much as the tree and sapling.

 

[Bob Marley]

I'm so excited for Mewtwo.

 

[Gunla]

Keep in mind that when Villager takes Timber Counter, they're giving up their frame 6, air usable, B-reversable, disjointed, ~100% killing axe. The axe with Timber Counter is significantly weaker and gives up its kill power entirely.

And this is why I think Timber Counter won't be banned. Tradeoffs. I think we're getting too paranoid about banning customs for the moment.

Some customs appear really good, which is a good thing, but we haven't seen a "be-all, end-all" moveset that basically has little to no methods of punishing or countering, for that matter. If it's out there, it's out there, but for the time being, we haven't found anything of it's caliber.

 

[Ffamran]

Villager is fun to watch so I don't think people will complain as much as they do about Diddy. I may be wrong though.

Villager's a pain to fight, though. The way Villager can shut people down with Fair and Bair is obnoxious. Who thought it was a good idea to give a character two projectile aerials that strong?! Oh, right, the same developers who thought it was a good idea for Zelda to have three sweet-spot aerials and that a tipper-less "Marth" is a beginner's character.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I'm so excited for Mewtwo.

not the place to speak about it.