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Character Competitive Impressions

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Amazing Ampharos

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On the subject of gimps, I think as time goes on Ness is going to fall victim to a lot of these and see less usage. Yeah his recovery is improved but it's still...Ness's recovery.

He's pretty screwed against G&W off-stage for what it's worth.
Ness's recovery being bad is an idea that really should have died the day Brawl came out, let alone this game. Ness is all around too fast to effectively gimp by intercepting the Pk Thunder bolt before it hits his body no matter what special moves you have (so stuff like Oil Panic or Gravitational Pull doesn't really help that much). Strong Ness players recover from whatever off-stage position they want (they don't do that bad thing weaker Ness players do where you always drop to that one specific spot 45 degrees below the stage). By the time someone like G&W physically gets over there, Ness has already launched himself. Sometimes you can gimp him by getting in the way of Ness launching himself and reducing his distance that way since Ness doesn't travel as far if he hits someone, but that's a dangerous way to do it since it tends to require getting hit by an extremely powerful move. Ness also has very powerful air control during helpless which just adds to his flexibility; he can choose not to hit the ledge in some match-ups and still be slippery enough to escape a punish.

Ness vs G&W wasn't even that bad for Ness in Brawl, and since that game, Ness has received significant buffs while G&W has received significant nerfs. Yeah G&W can do a few good things in this match-up and for a G&W match-up it's probably relatively winnable, but I'd be very surprised if it were anything but Ness's favor in the long run.
 

Antonykun

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Ness's recovery being bad is an idea that really should have died the day Brawl came out, let alone this game. Ness is all around too fast to effectively gimp by intercepting the Pk Thunder bolt before it hits his body no matter what special moves you have (so stuff like Oil Panic or Gravitational Pull doesn't really help that much). Strong Ness players recover from whatever off-stage position they want (they don't do that bad thing weaker Ness players do where you always drop to that one specific spot 45 degrees below the stage). By the time someone like G&W physically gets over there, Ness has already launched himself. Sometimes you can gimp him by getting in the way of Ness launching himself and reducing his distance that way since Ness doesn't travel as far if he hits someone, but that's a dangerous way to do it since it tends to require getting hit by an extremely powerful move. Ness also has very powerful air control during helpless which just adds to his flexibility; he can choose not to hit the ledge in some match-ups and still be slippery enough to escape a punish.

Ness vs G&W wasn't even that bad for Ness in Brawl, and since that game, Ness has received significant buffs while G&W has received significant nerfs. Yeah G&W can do a few good things in this match-up and for a G&W match-up it's probably relatively winnable, but I'd be very surprised if it were anything but Ness's favor in the long run.
Well I'm Villager. I can keep up with Ness offstage and that PK Thunder looks mighty nice in my house. Maybe I should just... YOINK well there went Ness's recovery. I wonder how much Nook will pay for this?
Seriously though. unless you're Villager, Rosalina, or another Ness. Ness's recovery has so much reward if it hits you that the risk of trying to edgeguard him is not always worth it.
 

thehard

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Ness's recovery being bad is an idea that really should have died the day Brawl came out, let alone this game. Ness is all around too fast to effectively gimp by intercepting the Pk Thunder bolt before it hits his body no matter what special moves you have (so stuff like Oil Panic or Gravitational Pull doesn't really help that much). Strong Ness players recover from whatever off-stage position they want (they don't do that bad thing weaker Ness players do where you always drop to that one specific spot 45 degrees below the stage). By the time someone like G&W physically gets over there, Ness has already launched himself. Sometimes you can gimp him by getting in the way of Ness launching himself and reducing his distance that way since Ness doesn't travel as far if he hits someone, but that's a dangerous way to do it since it tends to require getting hit by an extremely powerful move. Ness also has very powerful air control during helpless which just adds to his flexibility; he can choose not to hit the ledge in some match-ups and still be slippery enough to escape a punish.

Ness vs G&W wasn't even that bad for Ness in Brawl, and since that game, Ness has received significant buffs while G&W has received significant nerfs. Yeah G&W can do a few good things in this match-up and for a G&W match-up it's probably relatively winnable, but I'd be very surprised if it were anything but Ness's favor in the long run.
Then maybe "just get Ness off-stage" is the new "just get Diddy off-stage" is the new "just get Mac off-stage".
 

Road Death Wheel

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http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/...-fair-fair-fair-death-super-smash-bros-wii-u/

The "combo" can be DI'd out of, so this is just quite the hard-to-believe thing, even with the video evidence.

In fact, I tested it out, and it's actually very, very hard to perform, and you can actually jump away from the D-Throw easily. You can get out of it in multiple ways, making it very hard to believe it'll be used to make her top tier.

The player (Mario) in the video just wasn't good at all, or was just a test dummy that the guy used to make his claim "valid", when it has very many faults within it.
yeah that video looks all kinds of wrong but ill look into it.
 

Luco

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Ness vs G&W wasn't even that bad for Ness in Brawl.
This is the only part I disagree with, and even then only minorly. The MU was a -2 but many Ness mains felt it was a -3 because we got walled out pretty hard by G&W in addition to the edge-guarding thing and the tech chase stuff. That said, I think at top level the Ness mains agreed it was more of a -2 MU and it just felt hard, so although it was really annoying and moderately bad, it certainly wasn't anywhere near as hard as the likes of Marth, DDD and friends.

And everything else I pretty much agree with, though to be fair recovering super low can be dangerous for the same reason as 45 degree angles, and recovering high can result in all manner of weird things and unsafe situations.... but I think you're mostly very correct.
 

wm1026

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Ness's recovery being bad is an idea that really should have died the day Brawl came out, let alone this game. Ness is all around too fast to effectively gimp by intercepting the Pk Thunder bolt before it hits his body no matter what special moves you have (so stuff like Oil Panic or Gravitational Pull doesn't really help that much). Strong Ness players recover from whatever off-stage position they want (they don't do that bad thing weaker Ness players do where you always drop to that one specific spot 45 degrees below the stage). By the time someone like G&W physically gets over there, Ness has already launched himself. Sometimes you can gimp him by getting in the way of Ness launching himself and reducing his distance that way since Ness doesn't travel as far if he hits someone, but that's a dangerous way to do it since it tends to require getting hit by an extremely powerful move. Ness also has very powerful air control during helpless which just adds to his flexibility; he can choose not to hit the ledge in some match-ups and still be slippery enough to escape a punish.

Ness vs G&W wasn't even that bad for Ness in Brawl, and since that game, Ness has received significant buffs while G&W has received significant nerfs. Yeah G&W can do a few good things in this match-up and for a G&W match-up it's probably relatively winnable, but I'd be very surprised if it were anything but Ness's favor in the long run.
It does leave him open for that noice pikachu thundershock kill though :p
 

WhatIsRaizen?

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@ san. san. I was browsing your profile page and see that you and Ray Kalm play a lot of friendlies.

Just out of curiosity how do you too fair? Ike vs Ganon who wins?
 

FullMoon

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Clearly what happened at Clash is a sign that customs are eventually going to kill Sm4sh. It's totally not human error or anything, that would be ridiculous.
 

warionumbah2

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We got a Kirby spamming Up B, a Ganon slaughtering his allies, a MK that's scared of fighting, a Luigi doing Luigi stuff and Pikachu being genuinely confused.

This is entertaining not gonna lie.


Edit: Forgot the Ike player too, he's so good that i didn't even notice him. He's the absolute pinnacle of the meta for me to not see him on screen.
 
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ParanoidDrone

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Kirby Wave Cutter new meta. Calling it now.

EDIT: More on topic, I get the feeling that 3v3 and 4v4 are almost too chaotic to work.
 
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Firefoxx

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This whole thing has been some of the most surreal performance art I have ever seen

Edit: Yeah 2v2s are bad enough as it is, but 3s and 4s just seems like a nightmare that should never be on stream.
 
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thehard

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Nice to see they allow 3DS uploading. It is a tiny tournament after all

Edit: Waluigi WAs into battle!
 
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incrediblej

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2v2 doesn't seem to chaotic to me well the ones I've seen its just a matter of knowing what your teammate is doing and both take on a separate opponent and helping one another when one is in trouble
 

Road Death Wheel

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What happened I couldn't watch (crappy internet)
Ten mins of makeing names, they also decided to stream them transferring over all the customs moves for whatever reason. they spent like another 30 mins trying to update the game so they can get the extra stages for 8 player smash. They tried to go into the eshop options and a bunch of junk, and overall it was actually really funny. the stream chat and even the guy that was handling the stream was making bunches of jokes. oddly enough the view count actually rose.
 
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incrediblej

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Ten mins of makeing names, they also decided to stream them transferring over all the customs moves for whatever reason. they spent like another 30 mins trying to update the game so they can get the extra stages for 8 player smash. They tried to go into the eshop options and a bunch of junk, and overall it was actually really funny. the stream chat and even the guy that was handling the stream was making bunches of jokes. oddly enough the view count actually rose.
Yea when you start streaming you have to have everything setup before it even starts or else its just terrible but views probably rose because the comedy then
 

19_

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NeoNebulous is also steaming and you guys just missed a JohnNumbers sleep cam. :tired:

edit: it has customs btw
 
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san.

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@ san. san. I was browsing your profile page and see that you and Ray Kalm play a lot of friendlies.

Just out of curiosity how do you too fair? Ike vs Ganon who wins?
It is back and forth. Ike gets more hits, but gets punished harder.
 

PK Gaming

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Ness's recovery being bad is an idea that really should have died the day Brawl came out, let alone this game. Ness is all around too fast to effectively gimp by intercepting the Pk Thunder bolt before it hits his body no matter what special moves you have (so stuff like Oil Panic or Gravitational Pull doesn't really help that much). Strong Ness players recover from whatever off-stage position they want (they don't do that bad thing weaker Ness players do where you always drop to that one specific spot 45 degrees below the stage). By the time someone like G&W physically gets over there, Ness has already launched himself. Sometimes you can gimp him by getting in the way of Ness launching himself and reducing his distance that way since Ness doesn't travel as far if he hits someone, but that's a dangerous way to do it since it tends to require getting hit by an extremely powerful move. Ness also has very powerful air control during helpless which just adds to his flexibility; he can choose not to hit the ledge in some match-ups and still be slippery enough to escape a punish.

Ness vs G&W wasn't even that bad for Ness in Brawl, and since that game, Ness has received significant buffs while G&W has received significant nerfs. Yeah G&W can do a few good things in this match-up and for a G&W match-up it's probably relatively winnable, but I'd be very surprised if it were anything but Ness's favor in the long run.
Ness's recovery is irrelevant. It's certainly bad, but it doesn't really hold him back.
 

Shaya

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Uhh, did the former G&W main forget that parachute cleanly beats PK-thunder2?
!_!

Like
"jump towards them"
"oh it's about to arc around to him"
"oh look, I have time to make a cup of tea"
*up-b* Ness now gets semi-spiked a little further away from the stage.

Do it reversed and he'll get windboxed instead, generally just falling to his death.

Bucket also gives you super magical aerial teleporting powers. Just make sure you time the jump off stage with it so Ness cannot in any circumstance start PKthunder2 before you can act, and you're sweet.
 
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Luco

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Uhh, did the former G&W main forget that parachute cleanly beats PK-thunder2?
!_!

Like
"jump towards them"
"oh it's about to arc around to him"
"oh look, I have time to make a cup of tea"
*up-b* Ness now gets semi-spiked a little further away from the stage.

Do it reversed and he'll get windboxed instead, generally just falling to his death.

Bucket also gives you super magical aerial teleporting powers. Just make sure you time the jump off stage with it so Ness cannot in any circumstance start PKthunder2 before you can act, and you're sweet.
Oh fudge I forgot about this as well too hahaha. I shouldn't have, seeing as it was more of a bane to my existence than oil panic in my matches with @Kofu ages ago. :laugh:

I'd go more into it but I'm super incredibly tired. I'll post more on this subject later, this MU in particular is very interesting and changed significantly since Brawl.
 
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Shaya

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PK2 also clanks with Chef, equating to super stunted dead Ness.
So run off ledge cancel quadra-chef and up-b is probably like a 90:10 death hit situation for Ness. God forbid if you have time to chef into bucket surfing.
(Well just that set up in itself is practically killing everyone and everything trying to recover as it is; probably isn't that much worse than it is for others).
 
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Radical Larry

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If its about the samus video. I thought you could avoid the combo right after the throw.
You can DEFINITELY do one of a few things like I listed before:

After the D-Throw, you can just jump or air dodge the attack.
If it actually connects, DI the following directions: :GCU:,:GCUR:, or :GCUL: to escape it.
If you are hit by the last hit, ALWAYS DI the angle you're hit; you will be sent too far for her reach.

That Samus video is just a troll. It can't work against truly competitive players or players who can DI out of it well. Anyone competent enough can make this thing useless.
 
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