Character Competitive Impressions

[NachoOfCheese]

So here's to 1.0.6, mew2, and everyone going online to use M2. Let's wait for diddy's downthrow to get nerfed to his down throw in brawl. For the record i liked that down throw more. It was a great way to pressure horizontally also you could follow up with Fairs.

What, and Diddy can't follow up with Fairs in this game?

 

[Grass]

What, and Diddy can't follow up with Fairs in this game?

Try to remember back in Brawl, down throw had more horizontal launch than in this game. What I'm trying to say is that if diddy's grabs were nerfed to the point in brawl. Fairs would be your only follow up option and thus completely removing the Hoo Hah!

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Try to remember back in Brawl, down throw had more horizontal launch than in this game. What I'm trying to say is that if diddy's grabs were nerfed to the point in brawl. Fairs would be your only follow up option and thus completely removing the Hoo Hah!

There's nothing wrong with Hoo Hah...
It's the fact that Diddy has it IN ADDITION to his infinite amount of tools, mobility, sheer power, spacing game, pressure, the speed of his combo and kill moves, banana guaranteed setups, autocanceling aerials, popgun reverse canceling, onstage game, offstage game, mixups, safe landings, the uses of the banana, kill throws, punishing, etc.

He's a REALLY good character, but people can only think of Hoo Hah. If Hoo Hah is OP, then we should ban Ness for having a killing back throw and comboing down throw, or ban Luigi for his D-throw -> anything he wants combos. Hoo Hah is not the problem.

 

[Grass]

He's a REALLY good character, but people can only think of Hoo Hah. If Hoo Hah is OP, then we should ban Ness for having a killing back throw and comboing down throw, or ban Luigi for his D-throw -> anything he wants combos. Hoo Hah is not the problem.

I'd like to see you change player mentality about all this nonsense. I've never said hoo hah was a problem. I just said that aspect can be removed, he can still have the rest of his tools.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

I'd like to see you change player mentality about all this nonsense. I've never said hoo hah was a problem. I just said that aspect can be removed, he can still have the rest of his tools.

Why remove it then?

 

[Nabbitnator]

With the talk about customs. Who are the characters who benefit the least from them?

 

[Cassio]

Smash 4 (Yoshi, not sure on others but my guess is universal) Airdodge is invincible 3-28 ends F 33
Brawl's is 4-29 but ends on F 49 (for yoshi at least, but again maybe universal)

Landing lag or not, the fact you can start up a second airdodge already while still recovering from the first one in brawl is a big buff already.
If you're airdodging too the ground, then you deserve to get punished.

The new characters in Brawl had better airdodges. I cant remember the numbers. They probably are better, but Im kind of hesitant to quote frame data numbers on smash 4 for comparison that arent directly pulled from the game.

 

[Grass]

Why remove it then?

well I can just counter by saying why not remove 1 tool?

See? this doesn't get us anywhere.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

well I can just counter by saying why not remove 1 tool?

See? this doesn't get us anywhere.

Lol you're right.
Besides, a lot of times I wonder if the addition of Mewtwo will have a large effect on the metagame. Like, what if he had a good matchup random top tiers but a lot of disadvantageous ones with non top tier characters. Kinda like Peach was in Brawl.

 

[Grass]

Lol you're right.
Besides, a lot of times I wonder if the addition of Mewtwo will have a large effect on the metagame. Like, what if he had a good matchup random top tiers but a lot of disadvantageous ones with non top tier characters. Kinda like Peach was in Brawl.

Mewtwo is definitely a variable, and I would like to see him be mid-high to high at best. Mid/mid-low at worst. I don't want to see him be low tier.

 

[Antonykun]

Mewtwo is definitely a variable, and I would like to see him be mid-high to high at best. Mid/mid-low at worst. I don't want to see him be low tier.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mewtwo as a top tier that requires proficiency with him and the game itself, seems fitting for a psychic pokemon. And I'm stopping with the Mewtwo speculation

 

[Grass]

I wouldn't mind seeing Mewtwo as a top tier that requires proficiency with him and the game itself, seems fitting for a psychic pokemon

if he's top tier, I probably won't main him. Shiek already requires an ass-ton of work to be proficient with.

 

[Antonykun]

if he's top tier, I probably won't main him. Shiek already requires an ***-ton of work to be proficient with.

I forget that EVERYONE requires mastery of the character and the game itself. Pikachu can really warp your thoughts on difficult.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I would fly to mewtwo just because he was difficult. But aside from that like which characters would benefit the least from customs and who would fall?

 

[Antonykun]

I would fly to mewtwo just because he was difficult. But aside from that like which characters would benefit the least from customs and who would fall?

Yoshi comes to mind mostly. Jiggs technically gains something but the buffed moves don't do as much as say... EBT or BT.

 

[Jaxas]

I would fly to mewtwo just because he was difficult. But aside from that like which characters would benefit the least from customs and who would fall?

Pretty sure ZSS gets basically nothing out of Customs.
Shooting Star Flip Kick is neat in Doubles(/Triples/Quads) I guess, and Whip Lash is an upgrade but still not good, at least as far as I can tell.

The Miis also shouldn't get anything out of customs, because there's no change, but thanks to some of our rulesets they will anyways so...

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Little Mac is probably going to have a tougher time in a Customs environment, even though he already has a tough time as is. Especially when you consider additional gimping options (Gust Cape), zoning options, and on-stage tools that other characters get. And LM himself doesn't get much out of customs iirc.

 

[thehard]

Boss, Boss, Boss, one of the elite few that is pushing edgeguarding as hard as he can.

 

[Grass]

Boss, Boss, Boss, one of the elite few that is pushing edgeguarding as hard as he can.

Boss can be the new Mang0

 

[thehard]

AND THIS SHULK

 

[Jaxas]

Assuming a stream is happening? Link, please?

 

[thehard]

Assuming a stream is happening? Link, please?

It's just Xanadu. Amazing matches so far

 

[Ffamran]

AND THIS SHULK

This pivot Side Smash, though. It's by @Danishbutrcookies who also has other character videos up.

Once again, I want to see a (perfect) pivoted Side Smash from Mega Man.

 

[thehard]

I need to find out how @DunnoBro does that straight can drop. Great snipes also. I feel like this is the best Xanadu I've seen in a while. Lots of off-stage play.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I need a reality check.

Watching Xanadu's VOD the commentator just said that Town & City has a lower ceiling. I was under the impression that the only stage with a meaningfully low ceiling is Halberd. Y/N?

I do grant that T&C's high platforms can contribute to early vertical kills, but that's not quite the same thing.

On a related note, is there a way to easily spread information to counteract this sort of misinformation? (Assuming it is in fact misinformation.)

 

[Nobie]

There's something I'm wondering about Customs G&W. If you use Extreme Judge, can you incorporate the guaranteed self-damage/high-damage into your game plan? LIke, you play the gambling game and throw Side Bs out. If you "lose" more than you win, you have a relatively safe way to push yourself into rage. If you get the 9s, well you get the 9s.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Assuming a stream is happening? Link, please?

 

[Funen1]

I need a reality check.

Watching Xanadu's VOD the commentator just said that Town & City has a lower ceiling. I was under the impression that the only stage with a meaningfully low ceiling is Halberd. Y/N?

I do grant that T&C's high platforms can contribute to early vertical kills, but that's not quite the same thing.

On a related note, is there a way to easily spread information to counteract this sort of misinformation? (Assuming it is in fact misinformation.)

Town and City's ceiling height from the main platform is in fact lower than that on FD, Smashville, etc., though only slightly so. Pazx made this thread about it for various stages.

 

[Grass]

I need to find out how @DunnoBro does that straight can drop. Great snipes also. I feel like this is the best Xanadu I've seen in a while. Lots of off-stage play.

teach me how to send the can the opposite way too plz.

 

[David Viran]

Pretty sure ZSS gets basically nothing out of Customs.
Shooting Star Flip Kick is neat in Doubles(/Triples/Quads) I guess, and Whip Lash is an upgrade but still not good, at least as far as I can tell.

The Miis also shouldn't get anything out of customs, because there's no change, but thanks to some of our rulesets they will anyways so...

Whiplash gives side b actual reward for hitting with it with the cost of having to be more precise. I think it always combos reliably into up b and Bair. I think it's good if you get a dsmash when your back is to the ledge so you can knock them as close to the blast zone as possible before the final blow. There's some potential in the faster paralyzer. I can see it helping in some MU's.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Town and City's ceiling height from the main platform is in fact lower than that on FD, Smashville, etc., though only slightly so. Pazx made this thread about it for various stages.

First, thank you.

Second, I dun goofed and thought this was the stage thread for some stupid reason. Durrr.

 

[Locke 06]

Once again, I want to see a (perfect) pivoted Side Smash from Mega Man.

Why? He doesn't benefit from extra spacing that much due to its massive range already. Regular pivot side smash or foxtrot-canceled side smash are good. Also, those extra frames can be spent charging, increasing the size of the hitbox.

Also, more importantly, Side Smash doesn't slide.

PP jab is nice if you really need it (but pivot ftilt is functionally similar) as is PP Up Smash (why not JC-usmash though...) and PP Metal Blade is kind of cool, but MB gets the most use out of being thrown in the air and jump canceled on the ground as an item anyway. PP dsmash is legit though. (Now if only I could PP to the right)

I think that's all Mega Man gets out of PP other than just using it as a movement option for spacing (can be useful for setting up utilt/anti-air/giant grab range). I haven't mastered PP at all or messed with it too much, so I could be wrong.

Edit: For those who want to mess with PP, I suggest doing it with the bunny hood. You can really tell what moves make your character slide or not slide.

 

[Ffamran]

Why? He doesn't benefit from extra spacing that much due to its massive range already. Regular pivot side smash or foxtrot-canceled side smash are good. Also, those extra frames can be spent charging, increasing the size of the hitbox.

Also, more importantly, Side Smash doesn't slide.

PP jab is nice if you really need it (but pivot ftilt is functionally similar) as is PP Up Smash (why not JC-usmash though...) and PP Metal Blade is kind of cool, but MB gets the most use out of being thrown in the air and jump canceled on the ground as an item anyway. PP dsmash is legit though. (Now if only I could PP to the right)

I think that's all Mega Man gets out of PP other than just using it as a movement option for spacing (can be useful for setting up utilt/anti-air/giant grab range). I haven't mastered PP at all or messed with it too much, so I could be wrong.

But Style Points, man!

I guess I just want to see stuff being tried and used whether or not it works. Anyway, I put "perfect" in parentheses because I didn't know if it would do anything, but a pivot Side Smash would be cool and a nasty wake up call in certain situations.

 

[Locke 06]

The issue with pivot fsmash for Mega is that his fsmash comes out frame 20. It works well for spacing out aerial approaches, but frame 20 is still frame 20, and that doesn't count any travel time.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

But Style Points, man!

I guess I just want to see stuff being tried and used whether or not it works. Anyway, I put "perfect" in parentheses because I didn't know if it would do anything, but a pivot Side Smash would be cool and a nasty wake up call in certain situations.

I wish style points were all that mattered. Captain Falcon SS+ Tier easily XD

 

[A2ZOMG]

Little Mac is probably going to have a tougher time in a Customs environment, even though he already has a tough time as is. Especially when you consider additional gimping options (Gust Cape), zoning options, and on-stage tools that other characters get. And LM himself doesn't get much out of customs iirc.

Guard Breaker and Dash Counter actually makes Little Mac's recovery not completely terrible. Grounding Blow is also quite interesting given it's legitimately one of Little Mac's best air punishes along with his Up-B.

He's still probably bad, but customs are actually a pretty nice buff for him overall.

 

[incrediblej]

I wish style points were all that mattered. Captain Falcon SS+ Tier easily XD

His name would be captain faaaabbbbbuuuuuuloooouuusssss

 

[Mr. Johan]

No way Mewtwo will be low tier if he keeps his weight and height the same as Melee. If Rosalina has a similar build and was given a semispike Bair, Luma Dair and Uair that kills at like 30, ridiculously disjointed Jab, obscene Dash Attack, a Fair and Nair that last longer than the Hobbit movie, and a projectile deflector with no drawback, I think Mewtwo will be fine.

But then, Mario was given lagless everything with an air speed Sonic would be jealous of, so maybe it's a Mario series thing this time around. Hey, maybe that's why Yoshi is lobbed with the Mario crew this time. =P

 

[HeavyLobster]

I wish style points were all that mattered. Captain Falcon SS+ Tier easily XD

Am I allowed to post the preliminary style points tier list here? (No particular order within tiers)

Spoiler

SS:
S:
A:
B:
C:

 

[|RK|]

Mewtwo is definitely a variable, and I would like to see him be mid-high to high at best. Mid/mid-low at worst. I don't want to see him be low tier.

I don't even want to play Mewtwo, really, but I want him to be high/top tier just to see M2K main him in tournaments. No other reason. I always prefer to see people play as characters they have some sort of connection with, and M2K with Mewtwo would fit that bill.