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Good thing I also play Greninja
i dunno i even see h box ocasional just get poked with a fair from diddy and die at 80%Good thing I also play Greninja
No but really, it's just something you have to learn to play around/deal with as Jiggs. For as simple as Jiggs looks to be on paper to play she is far from it with her survivability issues.
You're not 'trading away' Falco's offstage game. You're taking the 'fast firebird has shorter distance' thing way too far. Falco still generally doesn't have trouble recovering with FF, and the faster charge makes it safer in all in-range applications. The charge time of firebird and fox's firefox are the main thing that makes them risky. Eliminating that aspect for slightly less distance is worth it. Falco is going to be saving his second jump often as you rarely need it thanks to your high jump1 height, but 90% of the time I find myself using firebird to recover a short enough distance that fast firebird would've worked in.
Amazingly good advice for every character!
I think specifically that falco can barely survive using Fair to gimp offstage by default. I didn't think he's survive with a shorter recovery.
lol the don't get hit advise reminds me of the days of joyfull self tourture playing darksouls.
he has potential but when you get down to it he's just a poor man's sonic who also happens to be a fatty. i really don't know how to feel about him honestly.
It's as if you can't read functionally.
You do not understand Jiggs then.
can KO at 23% damage near the edge of the stage with an uncharged Forward Smash second hit.
have you tested this with di? because that sounds really impossible.Okay, this just in,
...I honestly wish I was kidding...
His aerials seem to be fantastic as they don't have much landing lag if any at all. The koopalings can be used once you throw your opponent or knock them away. He can go very deep off stage. Yeah he is heavy, and can get comboed, but I think he can do well.
Yeah, from my testing it doesn't.Okay, this just in,
...I honestly wish I was kidding...
I do have a video, yes, just need to upload it relatively soon. Once I do, I will bring it up on here.
Likely is that I might have had Rage effect, since I remember being at 102% damage, but still, it's unlikely that I could have ever gotten a KO that early on Diddy with Link's F-Smash without some pure luck.
I guess Hungrybox isn't a particularly good Jigglypuff then, because last I checked these "you do not understand" issues were getting him boxed by Diddies right back to the literal birth of Hoo Hah as a term (ugh).
Its not always quite that simple as higher tier = less work.
Hungrybox has gone on record saying that he considers himself to be bad at Smash 4. Even though he rocks the Puff in Melee, even though that requires an emphasis on spacing, something about Smash 4 in general doesn't click with him, and it's not just that he's too good for it and that Smash 4 is limiting.
Plus using the same character in multiple smash games messes with you. Thats why M2K, who thinks Sheik is the best character in the game, doesn't use her
Well I wouldn't say it is that way for everybody. I main Marth in every smash game he is in besides Melee since I don't have Melee. You won't see me try to do a up throw combo with Marth in smash 4, because I know that is something that only works for him in PM and Melee.
I don't think it's possible for people to be thrown off by different games. Like you've said it's easy to know whicj game is different. Melee shiek and smash 4 shiek are very different. It's just an excuse IMO. Some people still rocking their mains from SF2....just saying.
Well, while you have a point I can't deny (I secondaried ICs in Brawl and played them in Melee) it's actually not that big of a work gap. Your effort in that case translated into gauranteed kills off of a single grab.
Fair. Maybe he's not the player to exemplify what I'm talking about. However, the point still stands. JIgglypuff works harder to what what the true high tier does for free :v
I really wouldn't use Hungrybox as the prime example for Puff in Smash 4.
Of course you are going to get hit eventually. But my statement still stands. Don't get hit. I don't care what your play-style is but not getting hit should always be a focus of any character unless said character is Lucario wanting to power-up Aura.
That's looking at in an incredibly simple way that just does not pan out as expected most of the time and there are tons of other factors to be taken into consideration.
This is simply untrue. Tiers measure overall MUs against the rest of the cast, tournament results, and some theory crafting. Nothing else. No bad player is going to be able to use the best character in the game against even decently skilled players just by virtue of the character. If anything as the meta progresses the best character will become harder and harder to use because everyone and their mother will know the MU by then.
Vincent21
was talking about. He's just looking at things from a different angle, but you're both talking about the same thing.
I didn't say that is the only thing they do out of down throw. All I said was that some people get pissed about his down throw up air combos. Of course I would know how good down throw is considering I main him.
What does having good match-ups against the majority of the cast typically mean? Having an easier time beating the majority of the opponents you face. Why do people consistently rake in tournament results with the same character? Because their mus draw them to that character. Why do their mus draw them in? Because they're going to have an easier time. What purpose the theorycrafting serve? Defining match-ups that are not seen even to draw tourney/experience based results. Why would you want that information?
What you just said here just proves what the guy you replied to right. If you are not playing well using a top tier character it is because they just have not put in enough effort yet. If a character has the advantage in most MUs that just means they won't need to put in as much effort than if they were to use a lower tier character. By that logic Ganondorf would've been top tier by the end of Brawl's lifespan. Name me 3 low tier characters who have the advantage in an MU against at least 70% of the cast.
I couldn't find the start up frames for Falco's Blasters, Fire Bird customs, and Falco Phantasms. The data you have now is just when it hits; no start or end lag data. Fast Fire Bird is as NinjaLink called it: a Falco Phantasm version of Fire Bird.
Run off Fair allows Falco to just hop back to the stage. Falco still has a wall jump and he doesn't need to go that deep down or far away from the stage. It's his ability by default to do so that's impressive. For me, choosing which Fire Bird custom depends on play style and match up. For a slower recoverer and someone who doesn't have a good off stage game or can't follow Falco far, then Distant Fire Bird would be better to use while Fast Fire Bird would be better for characters who can quickly gimp others or challenging them off stage is more risky like Ganondorf who can take advantage of his Dair to meteor at any percent or the Pits, Jigglypuff, Kirby, and Meta Knight who have thrive off stage and charging for that long with either default or Distant Fire Bird would be a bad idea against them. Default just remains as a jack of all trades move.
when wiiu verson came out *serious answer*
Bleh range and frame data, combined with the loss of vectoring and increased landing lag on Extremespeed after 1.0.4 making it that much harder to live to absurd percents to abuse aura with.
But don't all the good Lucario players just sweetspot the ledge with ExtremeSpeed anyway? I always thought the most notable weakness of that move was its fairly lengthy start-up that lacks a hitbox, which isn't ideal for a recovery move.
And if the opponent knows Lucario wants the ledge, they know where to put a hitbox to deal with him. Even if the "best" way to recover was unaffected, it worsens Lucario's options and makes his recovery more predictable...with enough landing lag that even if the opponent guesses wrong, they may be able to catch him and punish before landing lag ends anyway.
I don't remember everybody deciding he was bad. I thought everybody decided he was too good thanks to his aura. I am not saying Lucario is broken, but I think his aura is broken. He does not exactly do too well against character like Falcon who can end his stock before the aura even starts getting good.
That's true, it does make his recovery more predictable. He pretty much has to aim for the ledge now whereas before I suppose he had the option of going to the stage, although ExtremeSpeed always had a ton of landing lag. I think ExtremeSpeed getting a hitbox at the end (which gets stronger with Aura) can make putting a hitbox at the ledge a risky affair, even if you know what Lucario's gonna do.
