Character Competitive Impressions

[Sinister Slush]

*Shrug* I have NO idea why people aren't playing him. Super heavy, great recovery, hits hard, versatile projectile, great mobility great meteor, great priority, good range, he's basically the jack of all trades like Pit/Lame Pit. Except I would call him the err...queen of all trades, because he does everything above average, but not amazing. He has no real noteworthy flaws sides maybe a meh side special? I'm not a Yoshi expert, someone needs to enlighten me on his flaws.

Forced to approach and getting kills for one in terms of weakness, which is the whole thing with most top tiers that just rush in on him.

 

[Ffamran]

Forced to approach and getting kills for one in terms of weakness, which is the whole thing with most top tiers that just rush in on him.

Really? Can't Yoshi use Egg Toss to harass people? Not as in a campy way, but more of if you want to hit me, then you have to get near me or I'll toss eggs like they're rotting - they are - at you and glide around like the green, dinosaur with shoes that I am.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

That's the joke.
Also can we stop talking about Miis like they have customs? Either they are allowed with (at least) all their moves or they are not allowed at all. Anything in the middle is a spit in the face for the guys.

I understand this is a senistive topic but i just consider anything outside of 1111 to be customs for mii's
just like i consider anything out side of 1111 palutena to custom's
the selection for both mii's and characters are in the custom section in the menu.
i just see them like other characters and they have there own custom set.
Im trying to not make it seem like im spitting on there face. but if they truly interprete it that way im not gunna say sorry.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Egg toss can be annoying but you don't really lose stage control when he uses it. Now if it was brawl's distance it'd be a much much different story.
If he's using it, it's most likely cause he's desperate to tack on % without having to approach and even then there's random instances that're apparently rare, but I get it like 7 or so times in a set where it'll sometimes do 1%.

Otherwise any other times he's throwing eggs is to set up for a Pinball.

 

[Trifroze]

Captain Falcon has great mobility, but not much for disjointed range. Sonic's mobility and rewards are better than Falcon's, and I know from experience against Sonics that actually knew what they were doing that Ike's range can shut down that mobility fairly well as long as you play correctly. Add on top of that Falcon having a larger hitbox which means Ike has an even easier time juggling him and an inferior recovery in exchange for more KOing power. Could be evenish, I'd lean more towards advantage atm.

Sonic lacks a 9 frame attack that covers one fourth of FD though and sets up heavies like Ike for 30-40% true combos (add 4-5 frames to make it 1/3 of FD and 4-5 more to make it half etc). That's how good Falcon's dash grab is. Sonic's dash grab might be as fast as Falcon's when we're talking distances longer than that though because his running speed is so fast, but after the 20 frame mark your opponent will be reacting to you anyway and attacks slower than that become just punishes. Sonic's range outside of that is also considerably worse than Falcon's, and he dislikes characters that can zone with disjointed ACs a lot more than Falcon does. Hence, you really can't judge the Ike vs Falcon MU based on Sonic.

Ike doesn't gimp Falcon either, his aerials are too slow and Falcon can recover deep enough for Ike's fair to almost never hit. For a swordsman, the Ike MU doesn't seem that bad. He might dislike rushdown more than someone like Marth or Lucina, but I've found this MU to be even for Falcon at worst.

Now I can't say the same for Shulk, might have a disadvantage there. Has more range than Ike, is potentially faster, gimps Falcon better than Ike (although Falcon does the same to him) and has more KO potential. However, I still don't think Shulk is objectively better than Ike by any means. He can just adapt better because of his monado arts.

 

[san.]

I think it's even, each deals ton of damage to each other.

 

[M15t3R E]

I use Yoshi as a secondary and I'm also wondering where all the Yoshi results are at. He is a great character and the only heavyweight I'll personally play. Mainly because with Yoshi I feel like I have the mobility of an agile lightweight, except he lives far longer. It really bothers me how there can be such underrated characters because so many players are top tier bandwagoners. With nobody willing to explore the likes of Yoshi and others like him in streamed tournaments, this centralizes the metagame and stunts its growth.
*end rant*

 

[deepseadiva]

Oh mannnnnn.

Captain Falcon is good in this game.

 

[dragontamer]

I use Yoshi as a secondary and I'm also wondering where all the Yoshi results are at. He is a great character and the only heavyweight I'll personally play. Mainly because with Yoshi I feel like I have the mobility of an agile lightweight, except he lives far longer. It really bothers me how there can be such underrated characters because so many players are top tier bandwagoners. With nobody willing to explore the likes of Yoshi and others like him in streamed tournaments, this centralizes the metagame and stunts its growth.
*end rant*

A friend of mine has been playing Yoshi since Melee, so I can't really "take" Yoshi away from him.

But yeah, this is probably Yoshi's best Smash game so far. Yoshi is a very solid character IMO, kinda strange that he didn't get any top 16-APEX players.

Oh, and any character that has the same Aerial speed as Jigglypuff is NOT a heavyweight. Yoshi is extremely mobile and hits hard.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Watching the Japanese tourney. Winners finals Abadangos wario destroyed Nietonos sheik. Holy crap. The nair to waft true combo is so godlike. Sheik really has problems killing in this matchup. I'm beginning to think its 5-5. Wario can kill sheik at 70% with a half charged waft. Keep sleeping on this character please. I don't want him to become popular.

 

[thehard]

Watching the Japanese tourney. Winners finals Abadangos wario destroyed Nietonos sheik. Holy crap. The nair to waft true combo is so godlike. Sheik really has problems killing in this matchup. I'm beginning to think its 5-5. Wario can kill sheik at 70% with a half charged waft. Keep sleeping on this character please. I don't want him to become popular.

I just came here to post this lol. Wario is fantastic.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Watching the Japanese tourney. Winners finals Abadangos wario destroyed Nietonos sheik. Holy crap. The nair to waft true combo is so godlike. Sheik really has problems killing in this matchup. I'm beginning to think its 5-5. Wario can kill sheik at 70% with a half charged waft. Keep sleeping on this character please. I don't want him to become popular.

Thats a wish that saddly never comes true.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

I just came here to post this lol. Wario is fantastic.

I've been defending him for months everyone says he's barely top 15 or worse. This character is top 15 or higher. Abadango doesn't even play him optimally yet. He's to defensive. And yes nair to waft is a true conmbo and its oh so good.

 

[Conda]

@Nairo still believes Robin to be high tier. I think we should discuss how Robin could be high tier. I know it's not looking pretty for him/her now, but it could be possible that playing him/her 'safe' and read-based could make Robin safe enough to actually use. Nairo believes that you don't need to be fast or mobile to get reads and get the payoff associated with successful reads.

This goes back to my statement earlier in this thread that Robin must be played like a heavy, like Ganondorf and such. You don't have speed and your grab has a lot of endlag, so you've gotta be on-point with your reads and punishes.

 

[TTYK]

My tier list:
S+
Sheik
Diddy Kong
Rosalina & Luma
Yoshi

S
Lucario
Sonic the Hedgehog
Zero Suit Samus
Greninja

A+
Cpt. Falcon
Marth
Ness
Robin
Link
Lucina
Fox McCloud

A
Duck Hunt
Dark Pit
Shulk
Toon Link
Mario
Pit
Little Mac
Pikachu

B
Ike
Peach
Jigglypuff
Palutena
Mega Man
R.O.B.
Samus Aran
Dr. Mario
Falco Lombardi
Mr. Game and Watch

C
Kirby
Villager
Pac-Man
Luigi
Koopalings
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Zelda
Ganondorf

D
Charizard
Wario
Bowser
Wii Fit Trainer
Olimar
Donkey Kong

 

[Quickhero]

Please put some explanations on your tier lists, because unless you can explain how Luigi is in lower mid tier and that Donkey Kong, Wario, Bowser, and Olimar are the worst characters in the game, in particular, your list makes absolutely no sense with what gameplay has actually shown us.

 

[M15t3R E]

My tier list:
S+
Sheik
Diddy Kong
Rosalina & Luma
Yoshi

S
Lucario
Sonic the Hedgehog
Zero Suit Samus
Greninja

A+
Cpt. Falcon
Marth
Ness
Robin
Link
Lucina
Fox McCloud

A
Duck Hunt
Dark Pit
Shulk
Toon Link
Mario
Pit
Little Mac
Pikachu

B
Ike
Peach
Jigglypuff
Palutena
Mega Man
R.O.B.
Samus Aran
Dr. Mario
Falco Lombardi
Mr. Game and Watch

C
Kirby
Villager
Pac-Man
Luigi
Koopalings
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Zelda
Ganondorf

D
Charizard
Wario
Bowser
Wii Fit Trainer
Olimar
Donkey Kong

Pikachu is WAYYY too low in your tier list. Also, Marth and Lucina are far too high.

 

[Conda]

Let's not discuss tier lists without explanations.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Pikachu is WAYYY too low in your tier list. Also, Marth and Lucina are far too high.

we get it you like pika Xd.

@ Conda there was a tier list >.> < ,< ?

 

[TTYK]

Pikachu is WAYYY too low in your tier list. Also, Marth and Lucina are far too high.

I think pikachu is fine where hes at, but you are right about marth and lucina.

 

[TriTails]

I am honestly baffled there are still people that still live in the early meta.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

My tier list:
S+
Sheik
Diddy Kong
Rosalina & Luma
Yoshi

S
Lucario
Sonic the Hedgehog
Zero Suit Samus
Greninja

A+
Cpt. Falcon
Marth
Ness
Robin
Link
Lucina
Fox McCloud

A
Duck Hunt
Dark Pit
Shulk
Toon Link
Mario
Pit
Little Mac
Pikachu

B
Ike
Peach
Jigglypuff
Palutena
Mega Man
R.O.B.
Samus Aran
Dr. Mario
Falco Lombardi
Mr. Game and Watch

C
Kirby
Villager
Pac-Man
Luigi
Koopalings
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Zelda
Ganondorf

D
Charizard
Wario
Bowser
Wii Fit Trainer
Olimar
Donkey Kong

Wario in D tier Lmfao. Read up a few posts and see Nietono getting destroyed by Abadangos wario in tourney. Olimar is too low as well lmfao. Put them in A+ tier remove lucina what a joke drop duck hunt down a tier. Move Mega man and pikachu up as well. Let's be serious ur tier list is a mess lol this might be one if the most inaccurate lists ive ever seen. This looks worse than the event hubs list which is bad.

 

[M15t3R E]

Let's not discuss tier lists without explanations.

You're right- the community is still not ready to put out an official one. When might that finally happen?

 

[TriTails]

Wario in D tier Lmfao. Read up a few posts and see Nietono getting destroyed by Abadangos wario in tourney. Olimar is too low as well lmfao. Put them in A+ tier remove lucina what a joke drop duck hunt down a tier. Move Mega man and pikachu up as well. Let's be serious ur tier list is a mess lol this might be one if the most inaccurate lists ive ever seen. This looks worse than the event hubs list which is bad.

Eh, I have seen MUCH worse.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I think pikachu is fine where hes at, but you are right about marth and lucina.

i don't get this. the pika dude guy person did not even lay out any reasoning for why marth was to high on your list. you took absolutly no convincing. like why did you put him so high if you felt he was not really that high?

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Eh, I have seen MUCH worse.

I haven't lol. 2 A+ characters in bottom tier and Lucina Link and Duck hunt in A+ lmfao. This looks like a for glory tier list.

 

[M15t3R E]

i don't get this. the pika dude guy person did not even lay out any reasoning for why marth was to high on your list. you took absolutly no convincing. like why did you put him so high if you felt he was not really that high?

I just thought it was common knowledge that Marth significantly fell from grace in this game and that Lucina isn't any better.

 

[TriTails]

I haven't lol. 2 A+ characters in bottom tier and Lucina Link and Duck hunt in A+ lmfao. This looks like a for glory tier list.

FG tier lists are usually like this lol.

God Tier:
Link
Samus
Lucario
TLink
Robin
And any other campy characters
And of course, Little Mac

God-Awful Tier:
Everybody else

 

[M15t3R E]

FG tier lists are usually like this lol.

God Tier:
Link
Samus
Lucario
TLink
Robin
And any other campy characters
And of course, Little Mac

God-Awful Tier:
Everybody else

Now that is comedy!

 

[incrediblej]

FG tier lists are usually like this lol.

God Tier:
Link
Samus
Lucario
TLink
Robin
And any other campy characters
And of course, Little Mac

God-Awful Tier:
Everybody else

I feel like that applys to any competition where your plsying to win unless there's rules to reduce camping or making the player's pressured to not camp like if 7-10 min 3-5 stock
edit: For glory is how they play in japans competitions im pretty sure FD form where as here in US levels with platforms are allowed which I don't cause people can run around with no items like on battle field and make the match last forever where as FG forces people to battle especially with characters that can approach those in your list

 

[Conda]

Have we seen Captain Falcons place well in the past month or so? He seems to have dropped off of the face of the earth, I only remember seeing a few players play him and he's been a scarce sight when it comes to tourney play.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Now I can't say the same for Shulk, might have a disadvantage there. Has more range than Ike, is potentially faster, gimps Falcon better than Ike (although Falcon does the same to him) and has more KO potential. However, I still don't think Shulk is objectively better than Ike by any means. He can just adapt better because of his monado arts.

Its funny because Falcon's grab was the inspiration that led me to re-evaluate Monado speed before 1.03, and I've been preaching it ever seen. Ike Can't burst through to grab like Shulk can. Ike Can't punish from as far as Shulk either not just because of Sword range, but because in Speed, the only characters faster then Shulk are Sonic, Falcon and Mac.

 

[Yonder]

Have we seen Captain Falcons place well in the past month or so? He seems to have dropped off of the face of the earth, I only remember seeing a few players play him and he's been a scarce sight when it comes to tourney play.

Wasn't he really really common during the preliminary rounds of Apex? That must count for something...but probably not since they weren't exactly pros.

 

[Saturn_]

I'm trying to pick the two or three characters I plan on maining, as I've finally been able to set aside more time for video games. I strongly believe that, with a roster this size, and with what we've seen in Melee over the last year, that anyone seriously trying to compete in tourneys needs more than one character.

Right now I've just tried to break up the characters I'm interested in into groups, and then pick one from each. The first group I'm working with is DK, Ganondorf, and DeDeDe, with DK in the early lead.

I find myself not grabbing nearly as much as other players. What characters don't really rely on grab setups?

 

[G-Guy]

I'm trying to pick the two or three characters I plan on maining, as I've finally been able to set aside more time for video games. I strongly believe that, with a roster this size, and with what we've seen in Melee over the last year, that anyone seriously trying to compete in tourneys needs more than one character.

Right now I've just tried to break up the characters I'm interested in into groups, and then pick one from each. The first group I'm working with is DK, Ganondorf, and DeDeDe, with DK in the early lead.

I find myself not grabbing nearly as much as other players. What characters don't really rely on grab setups?

I find that Wario doesn't really rely on grab set ups, but he evens that out with his amazing command grab (Bite).

 

[silvR1995]

Looks like opinionated tier lists are being constructed! Mind if I join in?

S-TIER


A-TIER


B-TIER


C-TIER


D-TIER


This should be fun...

 

[warionumbah2]

How is kirby and marth above ike?

 

[NairWizard]

Looks like opinionated tier lists are being constructed! Mind if I join in?

B-TIER

Hey, you must be new here. I'd like to take a moment to try to educate you on why Pikachu is--

D-TIER

 

[ApolloJustice]

S-TIER

Huh, different. Lucario since 1.0.4 is probably A/B.
Everything thing else seems okay...

B-TIER

Oh. Oh God. Kirby's waaaay too high, and Pikachu's too low.

D-TIER

Annnnd I'm out.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Looks like opinionated tier lists are being constructed! Mind if I join in?

S-TIER


A-TIER


B-TIER


C-TIER


D-TIER


This should be fun...

FALCO, NESS AND WFT AT D TIER HELLO?!