Character Competitive Impressions

[LonkQ]

I'm hoping for a breakout Ike performance. Even though people say he's probably mid tier after the patch and all that he doesn't seem to have the following he did in Brawl where he was generally worse.

 

[Sinister Slush]

If a solo Japan yoshi hits top 12 at Apex I will never say Yoshi doesn't deserve Top 10 in a tierlist again.

 

[Ffamran]

There are almost no Ganons online as far as I'm concerned... There's a LOT of Falcons, Links, and Marios though.

Funny, I just played as Ganondorf online in a couple matches ago. I think it's because Ganondorf despite being powerful and seeming like a "noob" character is that he's slow and he doesn't have range like Ike. Brawl was littered with Ikes in the beginning like how SSB4 was and still is littered with Little Macs. Ike's range and power just made it easy for them to play; Little Mac's speed and power made it easy for them to play too. Funny thing is that Ike and Little Mac became more technical characters and people found a lot of weaknesses about them. Ike is more of a spacing character since you can't rush in with him and expect Nair, Fair, or even Bair to come out instantly. Little Mac feels more at home at the center and being at the ledge is risky especially if Ness or Sonic can grab and B-throw him. Or have (Dark) Pit, Meta Knight, and Jigglypuff just combo him off the stage.

Anyway, Ganondorf, like Little Mac and Ike, requires more thought, especially at higher levels of play. That being said, no character is brainless, but some characters are much more technical like Peach who a lot of people want to see, but the issue is that she needs to be developed more. Sure, she can do fine now, but imagine her later on when a lot more is found out about Peach and everyone else. I mean, people just figured out how to apply Zelda's Love Jump in SSB4 even though it was in past games. It's more of adjusting to the game's mechanics now and sometimes that takes more time since some characters are drastically different in SSB4.

Lovin' it.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Yeah, I know. I generally enjoy fighting them (Boxing there and there!) but it does annoy me the fact that I cannot face Diddy, Rosalina, Sheik, or Yoshi regularly. Yeah, I also know I can just arrange a match with someone, but my time of playing is fairly limited (Now I can only play 1 day a week...) and I'll just get destroyed.

Nah, playing with Luigi is gud enough. So I'll shut up there.

Anyway... still rooting for Luigi mains that are going to Apex. It's fun to predict who is getting the golden chair... if the dirty monkey doesn't straight get it (? Anyone?)

I understand where you're coming from. I have yet to see even a decent Diddy on FG. They're all super predictable and botch his recovery. He's not that hard to play competently, but I've only seen bad players pick him thinking they can win just because he's good.

 

[deepseadiva]

Did y'all see this Pacman CRAZINESSSSSSS???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGlh6B4Y-FQ&feature=youtu.be&a

 

[Ffamran]

There's also the Nairo's Zelda video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeWFQE5FyY8&feature=youtu.be.

Seriously, SSB4, as many have said before, is the most balanced, official SSB to date. Everyone is practically viable.

 

[deepseadiva]

"Zelda boards calling Zelda terrible."

All character mains talk down their character to boost their own credibility.

 

[Ffamran]

"Zelda boards calling Zelda terrible."

All character mains talk down their character to boost their own credibility.

I don't; I give counterpoints to Falco's advantages.

 

[deepseadiva]

"Nairo's Love"

lmao incredible

 

[Antonykun]

"Zelda boards calling Zelda terrible."

All character mains talk down their character to boost their own credibility.

Just for the record I consider Villager and Wario to always be high tier at least.

 

[Ffamran]

"Nairo's Love"

lmao incredible

There's also Nairu's Love.

Oh, and don't even scroll down to the comments section in this video. You will have an aneurysm. Kudos to @KuroganeHammer for this guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMcyfvORlHE.

 

[Antonykun]

There's also Nairu's Love.

Oh, and don't even scroll down to the comments section in this video. You will have an aneurysm. Kudos to @KuroganeHammer for this guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMcyfvORlHE.

I read the comments section T.T

 

[NairWizard]

All character mains talk down their character to boost their own credibility.

Nah. Pikachu is the best character in the game. Sheik and Diddy are subpar.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I talk down D3? What? I'm pretty brutally honest about him.

Smooth Criminal

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Regarding Mario, do people still think FLUDD is useless?

 

[RIP_Lucas]

Regarding Mario, do people still think FLUDD is useless?

nah, but it is pretty situational. It's probably more helpful for the threat of it, and therefore limiting recovery options, than actually scoring KOs, but you can't use Mario at a high level without knowing how to use it.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I want to see a Yoshi do well. I don't see many on stream.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I don't; I give counterpoints to Falco's advantages.

Yeah well that's how it goes. Top tiers talk down, low tiers talk up. I don't think I talk down Sonic's abilities and if I do it's certainly not to boost my credibility.

 

[Ffamran]

Yeah well that's how it goes. Top tiers talk down, low tiers talk up. I don't think I talk down Sonic's abilities and if I do it's certainly not to boost my credibility.

In general, I prefer giving both counterpoints and points towards any argument. You won't see me saying Marth is crap and end it with that. It makes discussions more interesting and seeing from multiple views is enlightening. Now if only more people did that.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I consider Rosalina a top tier character. If I thought a character needed talking down, I probably would not main that character.

 

[Ffamran]

I consider Rosalina a top tier character. If I thought a character needed talking down, I probably would not main that character.

Well, there is a difference between talking down/up on a character and explaining a character's weaknesses/strengths.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I definitely don't think Marth is crap. He's got some good traps, baits out and punishes air dodges well and while super comboy throws would be nice the ones he has doesn't do a bad job of pushing them to the edge and letting him use his range, grab range and air game to rack up damage covering multiple return options fairly safely and easily. Getting tippers is always nice too.

I've been rethinking Lucina quite a bit too. While she kills later than Marth's tipper she still kills pretty early compared to a lot of the cast with her Fsmash. She's clearly not as good as Marth when he can land tippers but sometimes you don't have time to line those up like when you're punishing on shield. She can make certain opponents options really risky because of that. It's a shame they didn't give her better shieldstun and 1-3 more percent on most of her attacks like Shulk though.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I consider Rosalina a top tier character.

I agree with this. If it was the other way around ala Shulk with arts by summoning Luma for 13 seconds, she'd be only bottom of high tier at most.
But having luma all the time unless you continuously kill it makes it harder to deal with.

 

[Teshie U]

"Zelda boards calling Zelda terrible."

All character mains talk down their character to boost their own credibility.

most boards seem to be in denial about any struggles their character has. usually downplaying situations where they have almost no options.

zelda being bad is part of her storyline though. how else would she get captured by one low tier then rescued by another.

 

[Ffamran]

I definitely don't think Marth is crap. He's got some good traps, baits out and punishes air dodges well and while super comboy throws would be nice the ones he has doesn't do a bad job of pushing them to the edge and letting him use his range, grab range and air game to rack up damage covering multiple return options fairly safely and easily. Getting tippers is always nice too.

I've been rethinking Lucina quite a bit too. While she kills later than Marth's tipper she still kills pretty early compared to a lot of the cast with her Fsmash. She's clearly not as good as Marth when he can land tippers but sometimes you don't have time to line those up like when you're punishing on shield. She can make certain opponents options really risky because of that. It's a shame they didn't give her better shieldstun and 1-3 more percent on most of her attacks like Shulk though.

Considering that Lucina, Marth, Pit, Dark Pit, and Samus have the fastest Side Smashes at frame 10, yes, it's predictable, but it's still deadly. It's like Fox fishing for an Up Smash which comes out at frame 8; predictable, but deadly. Still, her lack of shieldstun and almost insignificant percentage differences does hurt her. In the right hands, she's fine and viable like BrolyLeg's Lucina. Holy crap that was amazing to watch.

Here's some videos of BrolyLegs's Lucina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNqsmhN-vLA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnuVBZPfYAI.

This was posted yesterday when I mentioned that GimR played Falco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPc1H5u_ZyA.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Can I just say that Yoshi was positively atrocious Broly faced.

Used/fished for grabs to get damage on lucina while having tap jump on.
Being a Yoshi player and having tap jump on distinguishes the newbies to the actual Yoshi players.

It's like... if Falco players in brawl didn't do chaingrab or shorthop double laser against anyone, or league of legends with Shaco having flash on instead of ignite or exhaust

 

[TriTails]

"Zelda boards calling Zelda terrible."

All character mains talk down their character to boost their own credibility.

Back in 3DS board in GFAQs, where people still deeming Luigi is crap, I talk Luigi up their ears off... It was honest though.

So.... I'm not a bad guy?

 

[FullMoon]

I don't talk up Greninja as much as I just try to explain him more. Most of the time I have posted long posts about him were because someone was unaware of what Greninja has going for him and just put more emphasis on the bad. People do tend to accentuate the negative after all, so I try to present some of the good to balance it out. I'm fully aware of all the problems Greninja has, I just don't think those problems are enough to make him lower than high-mid.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Psh. I still don't know what Greninja wants to do. At least I acknowledge it. I just kinda spam bairs and side b offstage to my death. Best Greninja NA.

 

[⑨ball]

most boards seem to be in denial about any struggles their character has. usually downplaying situations where they have almost no options.

zelda being bad is part of her storyline though. how else would she get captured by one low tier then rescued by another.

She does it for the attention. Shout outs to having Peach on speed dial.

 

[FullMoon]

Psh. I still don't know what Greninja wants to do. At least I acknowledge it. I just kinda spam bairs and side b offstage to my death. Best Greninja NA.

Sonic is like, one of Greninja's worst MUs as far as I'm concerned. I never know what to do against him. I think Sheik, Fox and Sonic are probably the only MUs that are really bad for him.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Oh I meant AS Greninja. I haven't really had to play against any. I figure it's like Sheik but without needles and getting comboed sooo... Sonic's favor!

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Guys.... I'm just gonna say it.
I think this community as a whole needs to focus less on putting characters into an all-knowing comprehensive list of tiers and more on actually exploring the characters. I feel as though we live in a world where people would just look at a tier list (like the event hubs one) and say: "What? Donkey Kong is the worst in the game? Haha lol imma go main Sheik now" and what we end up with is people just blindly abandoning characters with legitimate potential to just do what everyone else is doing. Now, I'm not saying that tiers don't exist. It's a fact: some characters are better than others, don't get me wrong. But what we have right now is the most balanced Smash game we ever had, and a lot of that balance is going to waste when people hop on the bandwagon. My thought process when I'm picking a character is always "Is this my playste? Do I like how this character feels?" If I'm really feeling it, I use him. That's why I don't enjoy playing as Diddy Kong or Sheik. I'd rather be on the offensive with Fox or Falcon. However, I don't see a lot of people thinking like that. I understand that many of us play to win and feel as though we HAVE to use the very best, like no one ever was. But believe me when I say that if you stick with that one character everyone says is garbage, you go into a match and your opponent will be the one adapting to you. Whether it's Kirby or Zelda or whoever is underrepped these days. You like playing as them? Don't let a bunch of smashboards posts dictate what you do. If the character has weaknesses, work around them. It's much more satisfying to win as Wii Fit Trainer than Diddy Kong.
You may think I'm crazy but if you think that none of this is true, look up Avagandro's Pac-Man.
I'm out,
~Nacho

 

[FullMoon]

Oh I meant AS Greninja. I haven't really had to play against any. I figure it's like Sheik but without needles and getting comboed sooo... Sonic's favor!

Needles, yeah, but Greninja can combo very well and has a good number of kill setups to abuse. Managing to get good hits on Sonic, though, is a different story.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

The people who look at tier lists and pick their character off of that probably aren't the "solve your problems" type. They're the "I hope everyone does my work for me" type. I've been an advocate of not really trying to determine matchups til after APEX or even EVO. Work on solving them and figure things like matchup numbers later.

Oh does he? Like I said. Never experienced it since he's underused. Actual combos or can they be springed out of?

 

[TriTails]

I tried playing as Sheik and Diddy.... and they don't click with me at all lol. Tried Greninja.... D-throw has too much end lag and I dont really like his Substitute, plus.... his Dair is somewhat wierd (Wait what? I hit an opponent and I lose my double jump? What da hell?). Tried Meta-Knight.... Oh My God, how many times did I Drill Rush'd off the stage? And why after Mach Tornado you can't grab the ledge right after? You have to wait for the end lag to cease!

Tried ZSS.... I hate tether grabs. Tried Sonic.... Way too fast..... and don't really like his playsytle. Tried Rosalina.....Two characters at once ain't my playsytle. Tried Ness..... Wierd recovery and double jump. That PKT2 though.

Yeah.... I stick with Weegee. His playsytle suits me the most. Not going to let tiers affect me on selecting Weegee!

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Sheik and Diddy are fun imo. they're just not SONIC fun. I can't imagine a more fun character...maybe Melee Pika, Falcon and Falco and Brawl Falco/Sonic.

For anyone who doesn't know pools started. Doc putting in work. Nice to see that dair back. <3

 

[warionumbah2]

Why the hell would you use Nado to recover? bruh..... I'm talking about meta knights Nado not luigi and docs.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

But but...muh nado.

 

[HeroMystic]

Dr. Tornado gives more horizontal recovery, while also covering Doc from any edgeguards.