Character Competitive Impressions

[HeavyLobster]

I admit I too used to propagate fraudulent hype of Bowser possibly being a high tier, but I've learned the error of my ways and made peace with him being an ok mid tier character.

With that said...

​

Perhaps the good doctor could offer psychiatric assistance to those who believe he's actually 20th best in the game.

 

[Nu~]

Shiek vs Pacman is interesting, and revolves around fruit.

PacMan's Cherry and Strawberry eat up all of Shiek's needles, and lay a good trap to prevent dash-in attempts. PacMan can simply throw out Cherries and Strawberries as a camp-strategy, forcing Shiek to approach PacMan without aid of projectiles. Granted, Shiek's approach game is superb, but PacMan's got one of the few SH Fairs that goes approximately even with Shiek's Fair / Nair. Furthermore, frame-6 partial-invincibility on Pac-Man's UTilt can punish many aerial approaches safely from the ground. PacMan easily beats Shiek's SH Fair approach with multiple options, even without a throw. (note: PacMan's extremely slow 12-frame throw is amongst the slowest grabs in the game. Its a terrible OOS option). OOS, PacMan is looking at Nair for punishes.

Mid-tier fruit, like Orange and Melon, shutdown Shiek's needles and give Pacman some room to approach. Grounded approach options are made more difficult: Shiek has to go all-in and "catch" the fruit while simultaneously using Dash-attack to get in vs PacMan for a ground approach. Pacman could shield instead and FTilt Shiek back into the neutral game.

At this point, I've noticed that Shiek players start to use safer Short-hop approaches in response to Orange and Melon... which was covered earlier. Hope is not all lost for Shiek however... as PacMan really can't approach her safely either.

PacMan's safest approach is probably dashing from behind Melon. But entering the dash state removes a ton of options for PacMan. I'm thinking that maybe if I learn to Perfect-Pivot out of PacMan's FoxTrot, I'll do better, but as it stands, dashing behind Melon removes PacMan's Up-tilt option to beat Shiek's SHs Fairs. Shiek also has the "all-in" options with Grenade and Bouncing Fish... which go well against the Melon. But a quick Shield -> Sidestep vs Fish... or a whiffed Grenade is all Pacman needs to punish Shiek. Its a risky game here.

Both characters have a 3-frame Nair that is used to screw up your opponent's pseudo-combo game. A messed up combo from either player gets punished with quick "get off me" Nairs that PacMan and Shiek have extremely easy access to. PacMan's Hydrant gives him an emergency escape option, but I've noticed that high-level Shiek players know how to deal with it already.

I'll describe Hydrant as a wildcard that coerces a mistake from the Shiek player. Nothing guaranteed, and certainly punishable if the Shiek predicts it. But the mental-pressure it exerts can give PacMan much needed breathing room to reset the game back to neutral.

Eventually, Shiek players learn to stop SH Approaches vs PacMan in the neutral game. And when both players play a strong ground game, it becomes a slower, campier patience game where both sides are fishing for a mistake. I'm inclined to believe Shiek has the slight advantage here, as PacMan's strong KO options are slower and unsafe and telegraphed. (Erm... more-so than Shiek's Bouncing Fish and Vanish anyway)

Within "footsie" distance, where fruit can be punished by the Shiek user... it seems like PacMan's FTilt can space Shiek's ground approach safely and effectively. Converting PacMan's FTilt hit into a reliable kill however remains a mystery for me. Sheik's needles become much more useful at this distance as well, but is punished by PacMan's SH->Nair.

I'm thinking 5.5 - 4.5, Shiek's favor vs Pacman... and certainly the game's "momentum" is a very large factor.

I agree with all of this. But I think the matchup will end up even or slightly in our favor In the long run as we learn how to utilize the trampoline more for popping shields, and start to learn how to lead into our kill moves. I've been testing jab into running up smash and it works wonders. Also, once we work the bell into our gameplay more, we'll be able to land kills starting at around 90%

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm not even going to begin going over how bad Ike's placement in that list is.

Apparently people still think he's slow with no combos and no good way to recover.

 

[dragontamer]

I agree with all of this. But I think the matchup will end up even or slightly in our favor In the long run as we learn how to utilize the trampoline more for popping shields, and start to learn how to lead into our kill moves. I've been testing jab into running up smash and it works wonders. Also, once we work the bell into our gameplay more, we'll be able to land kills starting at around 90%

Against the Shiek's I play, "false combos" like Jab -> UpSmash get beaten out by Shiek's Nair. Its really a brain-dead strategy that works too often (for both players: Pacman's Nair is also not to be messed with). I admit that I'm not quite a strong-enough player to use the right combos at the right %s yet. But such a skill is necessary when playing vs insane Nair's like Shiek's.

Solid combos like PacMan's Dash-attack -> SH Bell -> UAir will need to see more play. Also, Hydrant -> Key combos will really mess with any Shiek who thinks comboing PacMan is free.

But the problem with Key / Bell setups, is that you lose the ability to use Cherry / Strawberry / Orange / Melon while gripping on those high-lvl fruit. Shiek players who understand this will begin to spam needles a lot more, and it becomes much harder to land that initial hit.

If I can figure out the "tripstate" mechanics and can get FSmashes off on them regularly, I think the matchup will become a lot easier. It seems like trip-state is allegedly more common on "fall off platform", (ie: Battlefield's platforms). PacMan's smashes hit hard (erm... for PacMan anyway), so learning to cheat them into the game somehow would be rewarding.

 

[Nu~]

Against the Shiek's I play, "false combos" like Jab -> UpSmash get beaten out by Shiek's Nair. Its really a brain-dead strategy that works too often (for both players: Pacman's Nair is also not to be messed with).

Solid combos like PacMan's Dash-attack -> SH Bell -> UAir will need to see more play. Also, Hydrant -> Short-hop -> Key for the Key KO setup.

But the problem with Key / Bell setups, is that you lose the ability to use Cherry / Strawberry / Orange / Melon while gripping on those high-lvl fruit. Shiek players who understand this will begin to spam needles a lot more, and it becomes much harder to land that initial hit.

Can't we hide behind the hydrant during their needle spam though? And if we manage to pick up the bell or key as items, our OOS options get that much better with glide toss bell for the kill setup, or a key for the kill at higher percentages.

 

[g0rilla]

What do y'all think about ZSS? I just picked her up, and played her in Brawl. She's a LOT different now, but still really good.

 

[Antonykun]

What do y'all think about ZSS? I just picked her up, and played her in Brawl. She's a LOT different now, but still really good.

All I Know is that she's crazy if you're good with her

 

[dragontamer]

Can't we hide behind the hydrant during their needle spam though? And if we manage to pick up the bell or key as items, our OOS options get that much better with glide toss bell for the kill setup, or a key for the kill at higher percentage.

Camping with the hydrant safely vs Shiek requires the Shiek player to mistakenly give you a free hydrant.

Shiek can punish Hydrant by running up and FAiring us during the cooldown (Shiek is _fast_). I expect camping behind hydrant to work vs weaker Shieks, but not at tournament level combat.

 

[ZHMT]

Holy moley. Robin, Megaman and DarkPit are winning entire tournaments and aren't even voted in the top 30 on that list. A player has also won with Villager IIRC, who is completely underrated by that list (rank 30). That's four characters voted in the bottom-half of the game despite tournament results.

This list is everything about why I don't trust Tier lists for months. The community is just too immature right now. After APEX, the community will probably mature a bit. Ultimately, I agree with you, this list is very good for getting a "community feel", but its a very poor a tournament or metagame tool. Its probably best to just ignore the list entirely.

That said...



Yeah... this list is totally legit </sarcasm>

Vote-based tier lists are always lulzy. But this list is especially bad, even for a voting-based list.

--------------------

I get the feeling that Jigglypuff is currently underrated, and is probably going to be destined for top-tier. She's got no-joke, one of the strongest BAirs in the game. There's more KO potential on Jiggly's BAir than Robin, C. Falcon, Rob... and despite its strength it is also one of the easiest BAir's to land.

The calcs have been run. Jiggly's BAir has more Knockback than Diddy's FSmash. Heck, Jiggly's BAir has mre knockback than Diddy's entire moveset. Let that sink into your brains for a bit.

Yep, I agree, although most people place her around mid tier. I don't blame them as her representatiion is poor.

Outside of back air stuff, rests will be hitting more often as people become more familiar with situations on reaction. People honestly underestimate the power of baiting characters, and part of that is that its barely required in a lot of the top characters.

Also everyone shields too much imo, its one of the biggest reasons why there is almost a direct connection to the top characters and ones with kill throws or good kill setups. Getting a grab is safe and easy because of how often people shield.

When people figure out more about how to abuse the ledge grab vunerability, and learn better ways to punish peoples positioning, Puff should be on the radar a bit more.

Characters that don't have kill throws usually have various high damage throws. These throws are mainly for positioning. If bad position always lead to a kill, it would be almost the same as a kill throw in the end. Imagine everyone had ssb64 knockback throws, I bet people would shield a lot less. Give it time.

 

[Nu~]

Camping with the hydrant safely vs Shiek requires the Shiek player to mistakenly give you a free hydrant.

Shiek can punish Hydrant by running up and FAiring us during the cooldown (Shiek is _fast_). I expect camping behind hydrant to work vs weaker Shieks, but not at tournament level combat.

Wow. That's amazing, how fast she is. We would have to hit her with the hydrant while it's coming down.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts or the matchup. I know no longer believe that we destroy her, but I still think we go even or perhaps slightly in our favor only if we find ways to land kills much easier than we do now.

 

[Antonykun]

Yep, I agree, although most people place her around mid tier. I don't blame them as her representatiion is poor.

Outside of back air stuff, rests will be hitting more often as people become more familiar with situations on reaction. People honestly underestimate the power of baiting characters, and part of that is that its barely required in a lot of the top characters.

Also everyone shields too much imo, its one of the biggest reasons why there is almost a direct connection to the top characters and ones with kill throws or good kill setups. Getting a grab is safe and easy because of how often people shield.

When people figure out more about how to abuse the ledge grab vunerability, and learn better ways to punish peoples positioning, Puff should be on the radar a bit more.

Characters that don't have kill throws usually have various high damage throws. These throws are mainly for positioning. If bad position always lead to a kill, it would be almost the same as a kill throw in the end. Imagine everyone had ssb64 knockback throws, I bet people would shield a lot less. Give it time.

Guess there's hope for villager against shields

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I can see DTilt (I'm the DTilt guy get over it) becoming a nice spacing tool for Pac-Man.

 

[Nu~]

I can see DTilt (I'm the DTilt guy get over it) becoming a nice spacing tool for Pac-Man.

I can too, given it comes out on frame 7 and has the range of an fsmash

 

[TTTTTsd]

Dr. Mario's place on that list kills me. He's low tier IMO (mid tier AT BEST but I'm cautious about saying that and I don't fully agree with it).

Seeing him as high as TWENTY even as someone who subs him for funsies is....well, you could say it gave me a Fever.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Dr. Mario's place on that list kills me. He's low tier IMO (mid tier AT BEST but I'm cautious about saying that and I don't fully agree with it).

Seeing him as high as TWENTY even as someone who subs him for funsies is....well, you could say it gave me a Fever.

The Tier list gave me Pac-Man Fever.

I can too, given it comes out on frame 7 and has the range of an fsmash

Is FTilt faster or not?

 

[Nu~]

The Tier list gave me Pac-Man Fever.



Is FTilt faster or not?

FTilt comes out on frame 5 I believe. So yeah, it's faster.

 

[TTTTTsd]

How can Pac-Man, a character with probably the most diverse projectile game and strong defensive options (albeit weakened) be in the place he is there?

Like, not even talking about Doc. And why are Mario and Luigi so high? (For the record I think Luigi is better than Mario still, 3 games in a row now!)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

How can Pac-Man, a character with probably the most diverse projectile game and strong defensive options (albeit weakened) be in the place he is there?

Like, not even talking about Doc. And why are Mario and Luigi so high? (For the record I think Luigi is better than Mario still, 3 games in a row now!)

Fixed

 

[Iron Kraken]

I honestly don't understand Sheik's and Diddy's character design. As we know, characters are designed to be as balanced as possible... and not just simply for 1v1's, but also taking into account 4-player battles. The fact that 4-player battles are taken into account means that faster characters should have a competitive advantage in 1v1's. So that's one thing to keep in mind.

But still... what exactly are their weaknesses supposed to be? The only thing about Sheik that is even conceivably a weakness is the lack of kill power. But her kill power isn't that weak... and to make up for this, she gets super fast start times and no lag on nearly all of her moves, an amazing projectile, a god-tier recovery, incredible aerial mobility that is enhanced by bouncing fish, and an amazing move that is completely safe on shield (bouncing fish)?

Diddy... has absurd mobility *and* KO power, can avoid being juggled in the air because of monkey flip (as Sheik can avoid being juggled because of bouncing fish), an absurdly good grab game, a command grab that can be changed into an attack, two projectiles to play with, and his weakness is supposed to be, what exactly? The fact that his recovery can be gimped? Please. Yes, he can be gimped, but many other characters have much worse recoveries than Diddy, both in terms of range and how they easily they are gimped, and they don't come close to possessing Diddy's strengths.

There are other characters in this game who are really good, but even the good ones at least have some obvious flaws. But with Sheik and Diddy, I really don't understand what Sakurai and the balance team were thinking.

 

[David Viran]

I honestly don't understand Sheik's and Diddy's character design. As we know, characters are designed to be as balanced as possible... and not just simply for 1v1's, but also taking into account 4-player battles. The fact that 4-player battles are taken into account means that faster characters should have a competitive advantage in 1v1's. So that's one thing to take into account.

But still... what exactly are their weaknesses supposed to be? The only thing about Sheik that is even conceivably a weakness is the lack of kill power. But her kill power isn't that weak... and to make up for this, she gets super fast start times and no lag on nearly all of her moves, an amazing projectile, a god-tier recovery, incredibly aerial mobility that is enhanced by bouncing fish, and an amazing move that is completely safe on shield (bouncing fish)?

Diddy... has absurd mobility *and* KO power, an absurdly good grab game, a command grab that can be changed into an attack, two projectiles to play with, and his weakness is supposed to be, what exactly? The fact that his recovery can be gimped? Please. Yes, he can be gimped, but many other characters have much worse recoveries than Diddy, both in terms of range and how they easily they are gimped, and they don't come close to possessing Diddy's strengths.

There are other characters in this game who are really good, but even the good ones at least have some obvious flaws. But with Sheik and Diddy, I really don't understand what Sakurai and the balance team were thinking.

Kill power is not the problem for sheik the problem is more landing the kill moves. Sheik also doesn't have good damage output I mean sure she can combo but so can other characters. I just watched a sheik vs zss match and right when the match started the sheik player hit zss 6 times which the zss player retaliated with 3 hits and was already in the percent lead.

Diddy's mobility is not that great mostly in the air. He's actually slow in the air. A game will never be perfectly balanced and there will always be characters who are better than others.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Kill power is not the problem for sheik the problem is more landing the kill moves. Sheik also doesn't have good damage output I mean sure she can combo but so can other characters. I just watched a sheik vs zss match and right when the match started the sheik player hit zss 6 times which the zss player retaliated with 3 hits and was already in the percent lead.

Diddy's mobility is not that great mostly in the air. He's actually slow in the air. A game will never be perfectly balanced and there will always be characters who are better than others.

I think what he's trying to articulate is that their weaknesses match up with a lot of the weaknesses of other characters so they essentially mitigate the existence of said weaknesses. Like it isn't bad having low kill power or even a lack of an easy way to land your best kill moves when plenty of other characters struggle with that. Adversely Diddy being easy to gimp isn't exactly a large weakness in the grand scheme of things either.

Of course no game is perfectly balanced but I can see this perspective quite clearly and it makes sense to me.

 

[Iron Kraken]

A game will never be perfectly balanced and there will always be characters who are better than others.

Of course, but my point was that from a developmental stand point, it's hard for me to see how prior to the game's release the developers thought that Sheik and Diddy were sufficiently balanced characters.

Diddy may not have amazing aerial mobility, but Monkey Flip helps a ton in terms of escaping bad situations. Overall this isn't really much of a weakness. Other characters certainly have much poorer aerial mobility, and aren't given anything over Diddy that even comes close to making up for it.

With Sheik... I suppose they just thought that her moves were sufficiently weak that she would be balanced. I mean, obviously they were wrong, but I suppose that's the only explanation. It just seems like her strengths are so pronounced in comparison, it should have been obvious that her overall design was imbalanced.

 

[David Viran]

I think what he's trying to articulate is that their weaknesses match up with a lot of the weaknesses of other characters so they essentially mitigate the existence of said weaknesses. Like it isn't bad having low kill power or even a lack of an easy way to land your best kill moves when plenty of other characters struggle with that. Adversely Diddy being easy to gimp isn't exactly a large weakness in the grand scheme of things either.

Of course no game is perfectly balanced but I can see this perspective quite clearly and it makes sense to me.

Yeah I know but I was just pointing out that sheik and diddy are not gods like some people think they are. sheik and diddy are more tame than most top tier characters in brawl and melee fox right now.

 

[Chuva]

Diddy's ludicrous FAir kinda compensates his poor air mobility. He also has one of the best fast fall speed which is great for spacing aerials.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Each time one of these comes out I think "Man, I really need to ditch G&W."

And then I carry on. But it's nice to see a lot of pac love, maybe he's worth revisiting

 

[Nu~]

Each time one of these comes out I think "Man, I really need to ditch G&W."

And then I carry on. But it's nice to see a lot of pac love, maybe he's worth revisiting

Why would you ever leave? Lol
He's always seemed like high tier material in my eyes. The "nerfs" he received only slightly affected his camp game, which no pac-main should be overly relying on anyway. He's all about versatility and diversity. Use the tools you have that are best for the situation

 

[dragontamer]

Fixing Pacman's USmash so that it had more than 0-frames of cooldown was an unnecessary nerf.

Oh who am I kidding, that was broke as s*** and awesome. Free unpunishable USmashes all day long in 1.0.3. USmash -> USmash was a true combo at low percentages back then... Lulz. That actually really did nerf Pacman's rushdown gameplan significantly, now that USmash is no longer free.

It had to happen, but it was good while it lasted.

 

[Real Smooth-Like]

Off topic, but can we talk about Donkey K? I've heard multiple times on this thread that's he's "unquestionably viable". But why is that? Other than Will is extremely good with him (like... really good) I haven't heard many other points regarding his viability.

 

[Nu~]

Off topic, but can we talk about Donkey K? I've heard multiple times on this thread that's he's "unquestionably viable". But why is that? Other than Will is extremely good with him (like... really good) I haven't heard many other points regarding his viability.

All I know is that he has a legendary back air, good rush down, awesome customs, and great mobility for a heavy

 

[Kofu]

Dr. Mario's place on that list kills me. He's low tier IMO (mid tier AT BEST but I'm cautious about saying that and I don't fully agree with it).

Seeing him as high as TWENTY even as someone who subs him for funsies is....well, you could say it gave me a Fever.

It gave me a chill.

 

[Iron Kraken]

I think Donkey Kong really struggles against characters with strong projectile games, because he has nothing to counteract that. But if he can manage to get in on opponents he can really be fearsome. He has good speed and mobility for a heavy, lives to high %s (giving him that rage bonus), puts on tons of shield pressure, has a great anti-roll move with his Down+B, and has long-range and powerful attacks.

I actually challenged Will's DK on his stream with my Rosalina and did much better than I thought I would. We played two 2-stock games. He won both, but both times I got him to his second stock and got him over 100% damage. And I'm someone who never really played Smash until I got the 3DS version. Will is a much better player than me, so that makes me think that DK might just have a bad match up with Rosalina. (Unless I'm just not giving myself enough credit as a player... not really sure.)

 

[A2ZOMG]

I honestly don't understand Sheik's and Diddy's character design. As we know, characters are designed to be as balanced as possible... and not just simply for 1v1's, but also taking into account 4-player battles. The fact that 4-player battles are taken into account means that faster characters should have a competitive advantage in 1v1's. So that's one thing to keep in mind.

But still... what exactly are their weaknesses supposed to be? The only thing about Sheik that is even conceivably a weakness is the lack of kill power. But her kill power isn't that weak... and to make up for this, she gets super fast start times and no lag on nearly all of her moves, an amazing projectile, a god-tier recovery, incredible aerial mobility that is enhanced by bouncing fish, and an amazing move that is completely safe on shield (bouncing fish)?

Diddy... has absurd mobility *and* KO power, can avoid being juggled in the air because of monkey flip (as Sheik can avoid being juggled because of bouncing fish), an absurdly good grab game, a command grab that can be changed into an attack, two projectiles to play with, and his weakness is supposed to be, what exactly? The fact that his recovery can be gimped? Please. Yes, he can be gimped, but many other characters have much worse recoveries than Diddy, both in terms of range and how they easily they are gimped, and they don't come close to possessing Diddy's strengths.

There are other characters in this game who are really good, but even the good ones at least have some obvious flaws. But with Sheik and Diddy, I really don't understand what Sakurai and the balance team were thinking.

Sheik is really bad in FFA and All Star Mode. Like REALLY REALLY BAD.

In FFA, Bouncing Fish's huge commitment is more likely to get you killed. SideB is almost totally pointless in FFA similarly due to its commitment and limited space control and relatively low reward. F-smash and D-smash are both bad in FFA due to commitment and low power. She does have a good U-smash, but sweetspotting it is rarely practical and it is noticeably weaker than other U-smashes when not sweetspotted. One of Sheik's best advantages in 1v1 is almost useless in FFA: her grab game, because basically none of her throws are safe to use in an FFA setting, and none of them are good KO moves either.

Diddy in contrast is pretty unbalanced in everything. Generically overloaded all purpose character. Literally has a good move for potentially every situation in existence.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Sheik is really bad in FFA and All Star Mode. Like REALLY REALLY BAD.

In FFA, Bouncing Fish's huge commitment is more likely to get you killed. SideB is almost totally pointless in FFA similarly due to its commitment and limited space control and relatively low reward. F-smash and D-smash are both bad in FFA due to commitment and low power. She does have a good U-smash, but sweetspotting it is rarely practical and it is noticeably weaker than other U-smashes when not sweetspotted. One of Sheik's best advantages in 1v1 is almost useless in FFA: her grab game, because basically none of her throws are safe to use in an FFA setting, and none of them are good KO moves either.

Diddy in contrast is pretty unbalanced in everything. Generically overloaded all purpose character. Literally has a good move for potentially every situation in existence.

Yeah, when I think about it, I can see how the developers thought Sheik's design made some sense, especially considering FFA situations. But Diddy truly makes no sense at all.

 

[Nu~]

I guess they thought 1 banana with 1 use = balance...
How wrong can one be

 

[A2ZOMG]

I guess they thought 1 banana with 1 use = balance...
How wrong can one be

To be fair, Diddy is a more balanced character in this game than in Brawl. He's mostly top tier by having Fox's old throw -> U-air combo in a game where most grab games are a lot weaker, not because the rest of the cast can't theoretically handle him.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Sheik is really bad in FFA and All Star Mode. Like REALLY REALLY BAD.

In FFA, Bouncing Fish's huge commitment is more likely to get you killed. SideB is almost totally pointless in FFA similarly due to its commitment and limited space control and relatively low reward. F-smash and D-smash are both bad in FFA due to commitment and low power. She does have a good U-smash, but sweetspotting it is rarely practical and it is noticeably weaker than other U-smashes when not sweetspotted. One of Sheik's best advantages in 1v1 is almost useless in FFA: her grab game, because basically none of her throws are safe to use in an FFA setting, and none of them are good KO moves either.

In contrast, Ganondorf is amazing in pretty much every game mode except for 1v1.(and Smash Run, but nobody plays the 3DS version anymore)

 

[Antonykun]

(and Smash Run, but nobody plays the 3DS version anymore)

I'm so sorry (I'm not)

 

[A2ZOMG]

In contrast, Ganondorf is amazing in pretty much every game mode except for 1v1.(and Smash Run, but nobody plays the 3DS version anymore)

Speaking of other game modes, do we have any idea of viability in teams? There's the G&W Bucket exploits making him the most improved character in teams obviously.

I would think aside from that, Diddy, Sonic, Yoshi, and Pikachu remain generally strong in teams. Ganondorf as stated is probably a lot stronger in teams, and so are most of the heavy hitter characters when paired with a faster teammate. Characters that are probably explicitly worse in 2v2 from my guesses are Marth/Lucina, Mega Man, and Duck Hunt.

 

[Tagxy]

Got to play this game quite a bit lately. Feel comfortable saying a few more things about pika

:
+
=(ordered hardest to easiest)

Im fairly certain pika at least slightly beats everyone else as well, but dont have enough experience to say. Characters that can achieve early kills are also difficult even if pikachu beats them in most other areas. At this moment I dont think pika has any negative MUs.

Since Im sure people will ask:
: In the head to head pikachu is just a little bit better in most areas, though diddy is heavier and has higher damage output on a hit. Diddy is still fast and banana can be useful. However overall pikachu beats diddy in neutral. Diddy has a hard time hitting pikachu, rising SH aerials go above pikachus head which hurts him most being unable to space with fair (if they try I just dash under to aerial), moves like monkey flip have a hard time landing as well. Diddy's ability to combo and kill pikachu in general is notably lower. In particular Pikachu can escape all of diddy kongs dthrow combos at about 50% including dthrow fair; dthrow upair he can escape even earlier (this is true for all light characters, be sure to check yours). On pikachus end this MU functions more or less like normal, except that diddy is perhaps a bit easier to gimp.

: Unstoppable force meets immovable object. Probably the characters with the best neutral games with sheiks being a bit better on defense and pikas being a bit better on offense. They have almost identical priority, though I think pika is a bit better in the killing department. Pika's Brawl MK Nair also breaks shieks combos extremely well.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Speaking of other game modes, do we have any idea of viability in teams? There's the G&W Bucket exploits making him the most improved character in teams obviously.

You mean "still the best teams character."

No one can ever take that away from us <3