Character Competitive Impressions

[PacManiac]

I see a lot of people (not nessecarily on Smashboards) deeming Pac-Man as one of the least viable competitive fighters in the game. Personally, I disagree with this. Pac-Man, in my opinion, is more viable than some claim he is. He has good recovery (if you charge it up) and aerial, a great meteor smash, and alright side recovery. He has some decent power behind himself too. Pac-Man has a great projectile game with many types of projectiles, including the Fire Hydrant. Overall, I think he's a very versatile charcater.

I know I don't have much expirience with Brawl or Sm4sh, but I hope you still take me seriously.

Mains:

 

[Emblem Lord]

Keitaro says he is ALL for custom moves. So that makes two TO's in NJ that support customs.

 

[epicgordan]

Why not just tackle both types of tourneys? Both with customs and without customs? At least this way, we can give the game two types of tier lists (I reckon, however, that Wii U and 3DS will have slightly different tier lists between the two versions; the reduced frames on Olimar's Pikmin, I feel, will hurt his metagame substantially worse for the handheld than it will on consoles).

 

[InfinityCollision]

Because there's no need and running one tournament takes long enough as is.

I would love to hear a current analysis of Roslina ana Luma. The pros and cons, the best movies and biggest weakness, and why or why not she is a serious threat. They seem good, but I'm probably missing something.

Rosaluma is very, very good. And apparently has a thing against Sheik and Falcon? As if I needed more reasons to dislike Rosaluma.

 

[ZombieBran]

The Rosalina boards have at least two threads where people insist she is broken. Like almost MK level.
She spaces very well so even rushdown cannot shut her down easily, despite what you'd think. Her aerials are godlike (fittingly), Luma is the best defense she could ask for, and she hits hard with or without Luma. Oh, and projectiles are useless.

 

[Luco]

As i've mentioned, it's a big thing we're discussing in the Australian meta right now. My personal view is to use custom specials in tournaments until we see a need to ban them. Their potential benefits feel, to me, to outweigh any potential broken-ness they could also bring. I have seen some valid arguments for the other side of this coin, though.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Rosaluma is dumb.
She is one of those characters I see getting stronger as people gain experience not weaker. I don't think it'll be "well we all know how to fight rosaluma now" and she falls off. That seperation is an inherently strong mechanic.
It be one thing if she was incompetent without Luma but she is not. Rosalina has quick start-up on the majority of her attacks. While she may have some lag upon their end, the activation is where the money is.

 

[Emblem Lord]

She has several disjointed hitboxes as well.

 

[ZombieBran]

Yeah, before the tourney today people insisted that she's helpless on her own (iirc, even ZeRo said that)
I don't know how they could think that. Even her grounded moveset is very good.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Rosalina is not helpless without Luma, but she's restricted to a defensive game and has basically usmash and maybe fsmash at ridonkulous percents as a kill move when alone. Luma is key to her offensive presence, whether it's helping control the stage or powering up her smashes. I mean, you can space tilts all day but hers basically don't kill ever until you hit SD percents.

It's completely true that approaching Rosalina is a bit dicey anyway due to the range on her tilts and Gravitational Pull in general. Her recovery is also linear once it starts, but the trajectory is flexible enough that she can afford to hang out offstage and bait an edgeguard attempt first.

Unless the tournament showed some new tech that disproves the above? I completely missed it and hopefully video links start popping up soon.

 

[ZombieBran]

Well yeah, she's not very good at killing without Luma outside of that spectacular usmash (in a game filled with weaker usmashes).

Solo Rosalina's fsmash can kill Mario at around 135% from the center of FD. Not terribly good but not terrible either, considering the huge blast zones.

 

[Cherubas]

Fox feels bad mostly because that voice. I can't even get past it to look at the rest of his kit.

Starting to warm up to Shulk. Very versatile, incredible range, nair's hitboxes are ridiculous and it has low landing lag, solid offstage game (especially with Monado Jump), good throws, excellent survivability, jab1 seems to confirm into upb. His biggest weakness at a glance seems to be poor approach options.

This honestly made me laugh. To see someone say they can't play a character because of their voice and then basically follow that with "but I like Shulk". The irony is not wasted on me.

 

[bc1910]

Shulk's voice is hilarious in a good way. Fox's voice is just horrible.

 

[supercoolmayo]

Why did they change fox and falco's voice actors?

 

[mountain_tiger]

Rosalina is not helpless without Luma, but she's restricted to a defensive game and has basically usmash and maybe fsmash at ridonkulous percents as a kill move when alone. Luma is key to her offensive presence, whether it's helping control the stage or powering up her smashes. I mean, you can space tilts all day but hers basically don't kill ever until you hit SD percents.

It's completely true that approaching Rosalina is a bit dicey anyway due to the range on her tilts and Gravitational Pull in general. Her recovery is also linear once it starts, but the trajectory is flexible enough that she can afford to hang out offstage and bait an edgeguard attempt first.

Unless the tournament showed some new tech that disproves the above? I completely missed it and hopefully video links start popping up soon.

That USmash is practically enough in itself tbh. Not to mention that you only have to wait eight seconds for a new Luma to spawn - that really isn't very long at all...

 

[ThatLunaticFeline]

Why did they change fox and falco's voice actors?

They're the modern ones, the ones that did Assault and 64 3D.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

That USmash is practically enough in itself tbh. Not to mention that you only have to wait eight seconds for a new Luma to spawn - that really isn't very long at all...

Eight seconds is all I need. I have a hammer, after all.

Smooth Criminal

 

[κomıc]

I'm glad people are embracing custom moves. I haven't gotten too much time to mess with them, though as I haven't collected much. Hear collecting them is a pain because of duplicates.

Anyhow, I'm really enjoying Lady Palutena, Duck Hunt and Bowser Jr as the newcomers. My mains will remain Kirby and Ness though. Adding Palutena to the mix just rounds things out for me.

I like Metaknight a lot more here than I did in Brawl and Project M. His speed is more manageable and he just feels great to play.


Palutena teamed with Rosalina is a great pair I've found.

Dark Pit.. I liked him a lot in Uprising and seeing him in Smash Bros is cool but I don't see myself really using him in tournaments up against better players. It doesn't feel like he has a lot of KO potential like Pit. Maybe Dark Pit works best in doubles where he racks up a lot of damage and let his team mate do the KOs.

 

[WieldyMinotaur]

Anyone having some kind of matchup information against Bowser Jr? Hardly see him(ecept when I play him) and hardly hear about him. What do the guys who actually know how to play this game on a competitive level (not me) think of him?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unless I play against the character a lot or play them in my roster of 1 main and 5 sub mains I can't really go too far in depth on them myself.

Jr. I need to play more myself, he's so weird to me in terms of a moveset figuring out the situations where I wanna do, x, y and z.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I just know that the last hit of his Fsmash goes farther than the others/than it should. And its annoying because of it. >_>

 

[PKNintendo]

So how's Robin? I've heard conflicting reports regarding his viability.

I hope he's not low tier trash. That would be unfortunate.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Robin seems okay. He does have some notable flaws like a slower than average shieldgrab and generally mediocre startup on his pokes. He does have good edgeguarding and long range zoning though.

 

[Cherubas]

Shulk's voice is hilarious in a good way. Fox's voice is just horrible.

I feel the exact opposite of this. Even with Peach ladyfarting out all her lines and Pit being ravaged by puberty, Shulk is unquestionably the most painful voice in the game to listen to.

 

[deepseadiva]

To me, there are certainly very good looking characters in this game. And then ABOVE them is the good characters with unique mechanics.

Looking at Lucario, Rosalina, Peach, and Little Mac.

Without detailing all the characters, I see the tiers being something like: tournament winners, viable (most of the roster), and unviable. Unviable characters I'm guessing will include Jigglypuff and Villager, unfortunately.

 

[ThatLunaticFeline]

Anyone having some kind of matchup information against Bowser Jr? Hardly see him(ecept when I play him) and hardly hear about him. What do the guys who actually know how to play this game on a competitive level (not me) think of him?

I play Jr quite a bit and it's safe to say that as of right now, he's a very difficult character to play against. My current belief is that stage control is defining the metagame this version, with characters like Shiek, Diddy, Sonic and DHD all highly acclaimed and having good stage control tools. Bowser Jr. is up there as well with excellent zoning from his Mechakoopa and Neutral B, and the speed at which he travels across a stage with his side-B is quite frankly absurd (I use it to combo from my f-throw or dash attack). His side-B is in my opinion his best move, giving excellent recovery (it bounces off walls allowing Jr. to jump/attack/up-b out of it), a great escape option, and most importantly the ability to jump out of it even while in midair allows you to follow up with one of his powerful aerials.

His main problem is his predictability, and this is something which will affect his power in the future. Like I said, right now he's a pain to play against because people don't know him that well (I rarely play against Jr.s online, it's those bloody Little Macs and ZSSs everywhere), but as more people learn his moves and skills he'll become easier to play against because of some very wide openings on certain attacks. Mind you, even if he does lose some favour he'll still be a strong character. Dash into upsmash is devastating, his jab combo is very strong, and his Mechakoopas will always be a pain in the ass.

As for Robin, I'm surprised to find that I like the character. I wouldn't place him in high tier because of his quite narrow hitboxes, but he's a strong mid-tier candidate alongside the likes of Dedede, Shulk and Peach, imo.

 

[Ogopogo]

I look forward to the point where people realize that Little Mac isn't overpowered.

Just throw him! Off the stage or up, is doesn't matter! Use your shield, what's he gonna do, grab you? And then what, throw you and reset the neutral because he can't follow up with an aerial?

 

[deepseadiva]

I look forward to the point where people realize that Little Mac isn't overpowered.

Just throw him! Off the stage or up, is doesn't matter! Use your shield, what's he gonna do, grab you? And then what, throw you and reset the neutral because he can't follow up with an aerial?

He's very fair yes. I'm excited to see how fair exactly since it's looks like he has very polarizing matchups.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Dedede? Mid tier material? As much as I love the guy (I main him!), I don't see him rising above the top of low tier. Mayyyyyybe the bottom of mid, if we're generous? Too many characters can beat him at his own game (footsies and follow-ups, specifically), and diehard zoning kicks his ass (though it's definitely not as bad as it could be). Doesn't mean he's not viable; just in a lot of matchups, it's going to be an uphill battle.

Smooth Criminal

 

[ThatLunaticFeline]

Dedede? Mid tier? As much as I love the guy (I main him!), I don't see him rising above the top of low tier. Mayyyyyybe the bottom of mid, if we're generous? Too many characters can beat him at his own game (footsies and follow-ups, specifically), and diehard zoning kicks his *** (though it's definitely not as bad as it could be). Doesn't mean he's not viable; just in a lot of matchups, it's going to be an uphill battle.

Smooth Criminal

I won't lie, I can't play Dedede so I'm not the greatest judge, but his down-smash is actually really powerful. I can't care much for the rest of his moves except maybe his nair and his Gordos are much less powerful than I originally expected cause of how pathetically easy it is to reflect them.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I'm surprised Mario isn't more popular thought from the Demo that he was significantly improved. I think he might see high this time around. U-tilt is fab but more so the activation time of abilities.

 

[TiGGesta]

My First Impressions:

• Megaman is painfully decent. He has no unclose game and can be wrecked if one can get by his projectile wall.
• Marth and Ike both seem as bad as ever with Marth playing like Roy and needing a sweetspot to kill.
• Lucina seems like the best Fire Emblem Swordsman with good zoning, some grab follow ups, mobility, and can kill just as good as marth
• Characters that have stepped their game are Captain Falcon, Sheik, Ness, Bowser, Mario, Jiggs (from Brawl), and especially Yoshi.
• Greninja, Rosalina, Duck Hunt, and Bowser Jr. all seem very viable.
• Little mac is incredible on the ground but gets bodied b those who juggle him and get him off stage with ease

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I won't lie, I can't play Dedede so I'm not the greatest judge, but his down-smash is actually really powerful. I can't care much for the rest of his moves except maybe his nair and his Gordos are much less powerful than I originally expected cause of how pathetically easy it is to reflect them.

D-smash is great, but it doesn't carry his whole kit. =/ The meat of it lies in his tilts, his grab game (even though its range is booooooty), and his offstage game.

Smooth Criminal

 

[PKNintendo]

Robin seems okay. He does have some notable flaws like a slower than average shieldgrab and generally mediocre startup on his pokes. He does have good edgeguarding and long range zoning though.

Intriguing.

I'm looking into Robin if Ness happens to fail me (as usual).

I recognize you from the old Mario boards. I remember I used to debate with you using anecdotal evidence and faulty logic. Good times. Has Mario failed you this time around as well? He seems like the same mediocre character he was in Brawl, except worse, since i'm pretty sure they nerfed his recovery.

EDIT: Hi Meno.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

OH YEAH @ deepseadiva !

<33333

So many hearts.

And yeah, Mario is definitely eh.

Smooth Criminal

 

[A2ZOMG]

Intriguing.

I'm looking into Robin if Ness happens to fail me (as usual).

I recognize you from the old Mario boards. I remember I used to debate with you using anecdotal evidence and faulty logic. Good times. Has Mario failed you this time around as well? He seems like the same mediocre character he was in Brawl, except worse, since i'm pretty sure they nerfed his recovery.

EDIT: Hi Meno.

Yeah, Mario is worse in this game. Not only did his recovery get nerfed, he lost Jab cancels, and his combo game is still unreliable and does less damage in this game. Plus he still can't really KO with aerials.

I mean...Brawl Mario could rack some damage decently fast and Jab cancels helped create KO opportunities, but both those things got worse. And meanwhile Yoshi and Rosalina get Jab cancel U-smash...

Though FLUDD got buffed...I think. Seems to be better for actually pushing people away and edgeguarding. Plus Mario sorta benefits from most of the cast also getting universally nerfed. Plus custom moves actually do help him a lot.

 

[andalsoandy]

I see a lot of people (not nessecarily on Smashboards) deeming Pac-Man as one of the least viable competitive fighters in the game. Personally, I disagree with this. Pac-Man, in my opinion, is more viable than some claim he is. He has good recovery (if you charge it up) and aerial, a great meteor smash, and alright side recovery. He has some decent power behind himself too. Pac-Man has a great projectile game with many types of projectiles, including the Fire Hydrant. Overall, I think he's a very versatile charcater.

I know I don't have much expirience with Brawl or Sm4sh, but I hope you still take me seriously.

Mains:

Pac-Man has a meteor smash?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The more I play Charizard, the less I can believe he is bottom tier like a lot of places are listing him as.

 

[Shaya]

Charizard has some very usable custom specials that will drastically help his viability.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I play Zard, he's definitely not bottom tier, he's low mid/low at the worst. Of all the characters I play though, I definitely feel like Zard is one of the worst, comparable to Doc viability wise.