Character Board Specific Matchup Chart Project (Last Update: 12/21)- Not a tier list!

[MK26]

^_^ u used my suggestion!

OK suggestion #2: maybe you should differentiate between "no data" and "disagreement between boards". Like, if the wo boards disagree, you should have it gray, and you should leave it blank if there isnt a matchup thread for a character. Or vice versa.

Matchups should only be measured in 10's. That's the way it used to be in Melee, and it's the way it should be in Brawl. The added 5's are just to show it's not fully decided.

Example: 45/55 means the matchup is 40/60 at worst and 50/50 at best.

Totally agree.

Imo, the way we number matchups is flawed.

It should be:
50-50 = completely even
55-45 = tiny advantage (but still neutral)
60-40 and 70-30 = advantage
80-20 and 90-10 = huge advantage (90-10 reserved for infinite chaingrabs and true combos)

There really shouldnt be any 5's, except at 55-45 - and even then that should just be to cover uncertainty. We should eventually be able to revert to a 10 point scale (from 1/9 to 9/1)

 

[MorphedChaos]

I'd recommend putting any character that can be CG'ed by Dedede to slightly disadvantaged to Dedede
Dedede>Chaingrabbable person, and infinites to Dedede>>>Infinite, as his CG is a big part of his game, but thats just me, Maybe look at the "Character vs character" topics on each board and getting your data from there instead? No Bias, and pretty reliable data.

 

[Blackbelt]

I'd recommend putting any character that can be CG'ed by Dedede to slightly disadvantaged to Dedede
Dedede>Chaingrabbable person, and infinites to Dedede>>>Infinite, as his CG is a big part of his game, but thats just me, Maybe look at the "Character vs character" topics on each board and getting your data from there instead? No Bias, and pretty reliable data.

That's a horrible idea.


The D3>Chainable character thing, that is.

 

[DanGR]

Well of course Marth has a big advantage. I never stated otherwise.

And it even gives Marth the big advantage in the Lucas Weekly Matchup discussion.

Umm, ok. Why'd you post that wall of text then. O_o

OK suggestion #2: maybe you should differentiate between "no data" and "disagreement between boards". Like, if the wo boards disagree, you should have it gray, and you should leave it blank if there isnt a matchup thread for a character. Or vice versa.

wow, its so simple and helpful, yet I never would have thought of it. I'll incorporate it if no-one has any objections. ^_^

 

[Blackbelt]

Umm, ok. Why'd you post that wall of text then. O_o

To dispel the myth that Marth inifinites Lucas.

 

[Mmac]

wow, its so simple and helpful, yet I never would have thought of it. I'll incorporate it if no-one has any objections. ^_^

I agree, you should do it

Putting Numbers (Ie. 6.0, 3.5) in the boxes will also help too

 

[itsthebigfoot]

yeah, it'd help a lot

 

[cutter]

How do you guys measure matchups based on numbers (as in how big the advantage is)?

I see it as:
50/50 - neutral (yellow)
60/40 - slight advantage/disadvantage (green and orange)
70/30 - considerable advantage/disadvantage (blue and red)
80/20 - extreme advantage/disadvantage (purple and dark red)
90/10 and 100/0 - hopeless (big star and big red X)

 

[XienZo]

Olimar vs Yoshi has an enigmatic half yellow half orange color.

 

[Emblem Lord]

WTF?

Marth and Lucas boards agree on 70/30 Marth's advantage.

 

[Dynamism?]

I like what you're doing here. Kudos :D

 

[DanGR]

Olimar vs Yoshi has an enigmatic half yellow half orange color.

Working on it.

WTF?

Marth and Lucas boards agree on 70/30 Marth's advantage.

Give me a little time to fix it.

I like what you're doing here. Kudos :D

Thanks for the support.


Everyone- Please just give me some time. I don't want to fill the chart one matchup at a time. I'd like to have a lot of things to update at once. It's somewhat time consuming. :/ If I've seen what you've posted about something, I put it in my "future updates" section in the second post. If not, I haven't seen it yet, so please. I'm sort of busy too. at least I'm updating it. >_>

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Don't worry too much about it not getting fixed in time. Nobody's in a hurry here...As long as the chart will be accurate and gets updated here and there (unlike an other match-up chart...), evrything is alright

 

[MK26]

wow, its so simple and helpful, yet I never would have thought of it. I'll incorporate it if no-one has any objections. ^_^

^_^

I like you adding a Sheik/Zelda column, but I doubt many boards will have a numbered matchup for playing them both at the same time. For this particular set of matchups, you will probably only get data from 2 different boards - Shiek and Zelda.

(here it comes suggestion #3) And if you have a Shiek/Zelda column, you might as well add a Pokemon Trainer column. And a Samus/Zamus column No...just no...reserve the S/Z abbreviation for Shiek and Zelda. But a Pokemon trainer column sounds like a good idea.

And suggestion #4 is adding names or icons at the bottom of columns, to make it easier to read the matchups for the characters that are last in alphabetical order (like in IvanEva's thread)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

no to the samus ZSS calumn... you can't switch in between them.. you get ONE switch if you start as samus and the transorf takes way too long to be used strategically.

PT COULD be in the future... but at the moment strategic switching isn't part of their gameplay

(probably because only Zelda/Shiek has the ability to transform while airborne.)

 

[Mmac]

Here's some changes you need to make for Yoshi, DanGR.

Yoshi > ZSS
Yoshi > Samus
Yoshi = Luigi
Yoshi > Jigglypuff
Yoshi = Ike
Yoshi > Jigglypuff
Yoshi >> Ganondorf
Yoshi = Diddy

 

[adumbrodeus]

Here's some changes you need to make for Yoshi, DanGR.

Yoshi > ZSS
Yoshi > Samus
Yoshi = Luigi
Yoshi > Jigglypuff
Yoshi = Ike
Yoshi > Jigglypuff
Yoshi >> Ganondorf
Yoshi = Diddy

Match-up thread link?

Do the other boards agree?

 

[Mmac]

Match-up thread link?

Do the other boards agree?

Yes, and Yes. Just check the Matchup Thread for each corresponding character and they have Yoshi listed as the same

Also Luigi and Ike have a new Matchup Thread

Luigi: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190139

Ike: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189813 (Yoshi is still being debated)

 

[DanGR]

^_^[/color]

I like you adding a Sheik/Zelda column, but I doubt many boards will have a numbered matchup for playing them both at the same time. For this particular set of matchups, you will probably only get data from 2 different boards - Shiek and Zelda.

(here it comes suggestion #3) And if you have a Shiek/Zelda column, you might as well add a Pokemon Trainer column. And a Samus/Zamus column No...just no...reserve the S/Z abbreviation for Shiek and Zelda. But a Pokemon trainer column sounds like a good idea.

I won't add ZSS/Samus. I'll add PT as a whole later once people realize that they have a downb.

And suggestion #4 is adding names or icons at the bottom of columns, to make it easier to read the matchups for the characters that are last in alphabetical order (like in IvanEva's thread)
already there

mmac-
I can't change the samus' matchups. Their matchup thread is awful and completely bias. there isn't even any discussion going on.

The jigglypuff matchup thread I made a while back isn't quite accurate enough, but it gets updated never-the-less. I'll add it.

 

[Brinzy]

Ok, so since Ness = Zelda and Ness << Sheik, can't we say that Ness < Zelda/Sheik, or do we need to find out an exact number? Because it's clear that he loses out... though I guess I should just go ask anyway.

 

[Mmac]

mmac-
I can't change the samus' matchups. Their matchup thread is awful and completely bias. there isn't even any discussion going on.

But it still says that you're changing to Yoshi > Samus

Also why not Diddy, Ice Climbers, and ZSS when we're both in agreement?

I also noticed that you don't have Ice Climbers Matchup on the Links: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188700

 

[Matador]

Here's some changes you need to make for Yoshi, DanGR.

Yoshi > ZSS
Yoshi > Samus
Yoshi = Luigi
Yoshi > Jigglypuff
Yoshi = Ike
Yoshi > Jigglypuff
Yoshi >> Ganondorf
Yoshi = Diddy

Christ.

Yoshi > MK too?

 

[DanGR]

Everyone- I've done a massive update. It's only for five characters, but it looks much fuller.

I also noticed that you don't have Ice Climbers Matchup on the Links: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188700

there was something about that thread that I found very inaccurate, so I didn't use it. I can't remember what it was. I'll look into it.

 

[Mmac]

Christ.

Yoshi > MK too?

No, it's "="

Until we find something... we're close.... very close.....

 

[Matador]

No, it's "="

Until we find something... we're close.... very close.....

I was kidding....

if you're serious, I really need to find myself a good Yoshi. I always saw him as one of the potential worst of Brawl.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Ok, so since Ness = Zelda and Ness << Sheik, can't we say that Ness < Zelda/Sheik, or do we need to find out an exact number? Because it's clear that he loses out... though I guess I should just go ask anyway.

I'd figure that, in that case, Z/S would just stay shiek more... but I never really though ness was << shiek.... so.... whatever.

 

[Bouse]

btw DanGR, the Link boards are basing their estimates off of two things.
1. The general discussions
2. Private discussions I have with pro-level Links, (Izaw, Deva, etc)
Sometimes the private discussions overrule the generals, sometimes the other way around. It's in it's infancy atm, but it should have multiple entries for your chart very soon.
Odds are, a lot of people will disagree until they fight top level Link players. Even then, they may still disagree. Which is why sometimes I go with the general (slightly worse Link players) instead of our living God players.

 

[DanGR]

^That's fine by my standards. As long as this chart takes into account 1. the current metagame 2. the opinions of and from the better players and 3. both sides, I see nothing inaccurate about it. My goal is accuracy and credibility-not necessarily geniality. (for lack of a better word)

 

[talkingbeatles]

Ok, this is a message from the Falcon boards.
From what I've been able to figure out, most Falcon players are not terribly comfortable fighting Squirtle. I believe the consensus is that Squirtle actually has a lot of things going for him that Falcon doesn't want in a match up.

I know the chart has gone through a major update, I'm just saying this so Falcon>Squirtle won't happen again.

 

[MK26]

no to the samus ZSS calumn... you can't switch in between them.. you get ONE switch if you start as samus and the transorf takes way too long to be used strategically.

Note hidden sentence...it was a joke

^_^

I like you adding a Sheik/Zelda column, but I doubt many boards will have a numbered matchup for playing them both at the same time. For this particular set of matchups, you will probably only get data from 2 different boards - Shiek and Zelda.

(here it comes suggestion #3) And if you have a Shiek/Zelda column, you might as well add a Pokemon Trainer column. And a Samus/Zamus column No...just no...reserve the S/Z abbreviation for Shiek and Zelda. But a Pokemon trainer column sounds like a good idea.
I won't add ZSS/Samus. I'll add PT as a whole later once people realize that they have a downb.

Again, hidden sentence...and for PT, usually you can get by using the best 2 of the 3 pokemon for each matchup. So the simple thing to do is get the average numbers of the two best pokemon in a matchup and use that as the PT score. But things might get a little tricky when you get to the S/Z vs. PT matchup...

And suggestion #4 is adding names or icons at the bottom of columns, to make it easier to read the matchups for the characters that are last in alphabetical order (like in IvanEva's thread)
already there

How did I manage to miss that?

Suggestion #5: Instead of having the five coloured boxes in two different places, why not turn the bottom left corner into a legend?

Oh, and you forgot to remove Ganondorf v Kirby as a matchup to look into (second post)

 

[Blackbelt]

The Wario and Lucas boards both agree on an even matchup.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183767

7. Wario: 50-50. Summary up soon.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142975

Lucas+50-50

 

[Bouse]

Link Match-Ups Updated.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189587

1. Diddy Kong 50:50
2. King Dedede 60:40
3. Kirby 30:70
4. Snake 50:50
5. Falco 20:80

I made it easier for you to find the finalized match-up ratios DanGR. I made it so they're up at the top (in green) with the finished characters (in white), so you don't have to scroll down through each one. Check it once a week and you should be solid, we're getting around 2-3 done a week.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ 50:50 vs. Diddy?

 

[itsthebigfoot]

hey, why do we have pt separate if the character has to use at least two of the pokemon? wouldn't it be better to take the average of the matchup, or at least the average of the best two

 

[Bouse]

^ 50:50 vs. Diddy?

Read the thread?

 

[mood4food77]

in a character match-up chart, you can have PT seperated

it's much easier to say if one pokemon is good against certain characters than all 3 combined...it's much easier this way


can someone link me to the reasoning behind oli's disadvantage against yoshi?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ Olimar Boards are currently discussing: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172222

Yoshi Boards: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176831

These are the boards, where the match-p is discussed. Neither of them have a reason or explanation on that match-up thaough...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Double Post:

DanGR, the Bowser Board has a match-up thread now: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190797

You can remove the Barack Roll

 

[ROOOOY!]

So yeah, us at Sonic boards are getting past the spam era and starting to get our act together methinks.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510
This is..officialish. We have another thread stickied about match-ups, but this one provides the actual match-up verdict. We've only done the first match-up actually (and both sides are in disagreement about it >_<) but we've done the first one in under a week so it should come along fairly quickly.

 

[Greenstreet]

umm most mario are over to the nuetral side so we are in agreement for nuetral
(tenki and darkness vs'ed matador and yer, its nuetral)
so we are well on our way to gettin on this chart lol.

SONIC VS MARIO: NUETRAL