Character Board Specific Matchup Chart Project (Last Update: 12/21)- Not a tier list!

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

But you ARE forced to use squirtle for a time, granted I don't think it's enough to give anymore then a 45-55 disadvantage.

If squirtle comes out due to a new stock, then if you change immediately, you should still be invulnerability frames (it's that way with Zelda).

The real disadvantage is mid-stock, when they're out of stamina, it forces you to wait until you can create a rather large opening before you can switch. It's a definate disadvantage, but not a massive one.

I can agree with this... but you'd think a savvy enough PT would plan so that it was always the former case.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I can agree with this... but you'd think a savvy enough PT would plan so that it was always the former case.

If one stock is taking too long it's unfortunately not possible or if your opponent's last stock ended with a spike/edgehog. I've played enough matches as pokemon trainer to recognize that sometimes you just don't have the percents to create breathing room to change while you're still at high stamina.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If one stock is taking too long it's unfortunately not possible or if your opponent's last stock ended with a spike/edgehog. I've played enough matches as pokemon trainer to recognize that sometimes you just don't have the percents to create breathing room to change while you're still at high stamina.

hmm... yeah... this is correct.... but... even so.... one free hit on a pokemon isn't necessarily a huge thing... I agree... it's not a good thing... but it's not really grounds for being considered an advantageous matchup on its own.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

the fact that the match up is even with just ivy and char.

And using squirtle makes it a disadvantage, and if you don't use squirtle it's a disadvantage because you make yourself vulnerable.

Your never forced to use zelda or sheik and such any position your in is of your own agenda.

Squirtle coming out is an ill effect that forces a switch most of the time, if a switch must be forced than your at a disadvantage anyways because Yoshi has just controller one aspect of your game, in a way the Yoshi player is now controlling part of the match at the point charizard dies or is about to die.

At that moment Yoshi can look at you and say "What are you going to do, because regardless Im in a good position and You are not" thats a disadvantage, if 2 out of 3 is neutral 3 is a disadvantage but 3 can be avoided by giving your opponent control or momentum of the match for that moment than you have given Yoshi something that is not neutral, you have given him control unwillingly.


Sorry for adding when I said I'd be quiet =P

 

[ph00tbag]

I think the order on this chart should be redone now to reflect the new tier list. The effect will be a much more appealing graded effect with the colors.

 

[adumbrodeus]

hmm... yeah... this is correct.... but... even so.... one free hit on a pokemon isn't necessarily a huge thing... I agree... it's not a good thing... but it's not really grounds for being considered an advantageous matchup on its own.

Depends on the percents, but in general, I'd say it's better to clear your opponent away, give yourself breathing room. It's a little more difficult at low stamina, but not TOO significantly so.

But given an otherwise dead even match-up, pretty much anything is enough to give a 5% advantage, turning it into a 45-55%, and this is something.

the fact that the match up is even with just ivy and char.

And using squirtle makes it a disadvantage, and if you don't use squirtle it's a disadvantage because you make yourself vulnerable.

Your never forced to use zelda or sheik and such any position your in is of your own agenda.

Squirtle coming out is an ill effect that forces a switch most of the time, if a switch must be forced than your at a disadvantage anyways because Yoshi has just controller one aspect of your game, in a way the Yoshi player is now controlling part of the match at the point charizard dies or is about to die.

At that moment Yoshi can look at you and say "What are you going to do, because regardless Im in a good position and You are not" thats a disadvantage, if 2 out of 3 is neutral 3 is a disadvantage but 3 can be avoided by giving your opponent control or momentum of the match for that moment than you have given Yoshi something that is not neutral, you have given him control unwillingly.


Sorry for adding when I said I'd be quiet =P

True, but realistically speaking, there are enough techniques to avoid the fall-out that it's not a major disadvantage.

If you spawn as squirtle, it basically doesn't hurt you.

If you're forced to switch due to stamina, then you can do it safely, but you need to clear your opponent first, get them far enough away, that they need more then the transformation time to get back.

So, it's really not bad, not enough to justify any more then a 5% advantage for Yoshi.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I think the order on this chart should be redone now to reflect the new tier list. The effect will be a much more appealing graded effect with the colors.

and much more difficult to find characters on.


@ChronoPenguin... me thinks you know what you are saying... but are underestimating what it takes to be called and advantage

 

[Greenstreet]

lol on yoshi.... best kept secret in brawl evidently

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

oh.... the Zelda boards finally have anofficial matchup thread..... it's going slow but..... here it is:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190698



I'm doing some fact checking on MK being that awful for MK.... and I'm reallly not seeing any support for it sans that thread you found in the shiek forum....

see... the thing is, MK is VERY intermediate player friendly while Zelda is not... this is because MK, by his very nature is VERY VERY VERY forgiving of mistakes.... while Zelda.... is not at all.... and.. well.. the boards are FILLED with intermediate players.

if you make mistakes with Zelda... you are GOING to get punished during your cooldown lag by MK.... Zelda will not do the same to MK.... But, assuming you are a good enough Zelda, you outrange, outpower, outprioritize and, hell, even outWEIGH metaknight...

I'm pretty sure most Zeldas have found this matchup even since about forever... they might say to be careful against him... because if you aren't on your A game he'll be awful fro you.... but if you are... he's not expecially difficult.... even the MK boards seem to call it no worse than 60:40... I say, not even that, 55:45 at worst.... but the Zelda matchup thread has not yet made it to MK, so... I can't say what my fellow mains think

 

[Adapt]

and much more difficult to find characters on.


@ChronoPenguin... me thinks you know what you are saying... but are underestimating what it takes to be called and advantage

I believe that DanGR has said he will reorder it when the chart is complete from the char that has the best matchups to the char that has the worst.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Oh, and the Zelda / Sheik boards have agreed on Zelda = Yoshi and Sheik = Yoshi

Since when? Are you going onto other boards and debating behind my back?

 

[Mmac]

Since when? Are you going onto other boards and debating behind my back?

No....

I had nothing to do with Zelda. Seriously....

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Since when? Are you going onto other boards and debating behind my back?

Late breaking news: Mmac is pimping the character boards.

More at 11.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Ehhh, so for Sonic's 2nd match up (DK) we settled for 40:60 in Donkey Kong's favour.
However, that explanationless thread on AiB says that it's 30:70 in his favour.
So ours would make it a small disadvantage, and theirs would make it a big one, so I guess that's a debate.

 

[ph00tbag]

and much more difficult to find characters on.

Not if you bother to figure out what their rough placement on the Tier List is, and can, oh, I don't know recognize their picture on the chart.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Not if you bother to figure out what their rough placement on the Tier List is, and can, oh, I don't know recognize their picture on the chart.

BTW... that gradual grading effect will be thrown off by Olimar, Zelda, Toon Link and DDD

 

[DMG]

Wario vs IC's is even, Wario vs Sonic is a large advantage for Wario. The respective character boards have agreed on those matchups, I will see if there are any other matchups that are already agreed on so you don't have to look.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Wario vs IC's is even, Wario vs Sonic is a large advantage for Wario. The respective character boards have agreed on those matchups, I will see if there are any other matchups that are already agreed on so you don't have to look.

We haven't done the match-up on the boards, but it's common knowledge that Sonic is massively disadvantaged to Wario. So yeah.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I hate you Wario =p

 

[DanGR]

I believe that DanGR has said he will reorder it when the chart is complete from the char that has the best matchups to the char that has the worst.

yup. Not when it's complete though. Way sooner. I'm going to ask some people about how I should go about doing making this. It's going to take a while as it is.

oh.... the Zelda boards finally have anofficial matchup thread..... it's going slow but..... here it is:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190698

kk. The reason I have the sheik matchup discussion as the set matchup thread is because I felt it was more accurate than the threads in the Zelda forums. I mean, it is done by Ankoku and helped by some good dual mainers like RyokoYaksa. No offense, but there's some noobies in there. >_> Would you guys ever consider visiting the Sheik boards to discuss the matchups in Ankoku's matchup thread? Just a thought. A colaborative effort by both the Sheik and Zelda boards is what I really want. They should have made them into one board. :O

Ehhh, so for Sonic's 2nd match up (DK) we settled for 40:60 in Donkey Kong's favour.
However, that explanationless thread on AiB says that it's 30:70 in his favour.
So ours would make it a small disadvantage, and theirs would make it a big one, so I guess that's a debate.

I'll leave it at a regular advantage then. It's agreed that it's an advantage for DK, and that's what really matters in the early stages of this chart.

I hate you Wario =p

What's your deal??? XD

Everyone- thanks for rating the thread. It means a lot to me.

 

[ShadowLink84]

yup. Not when it's complete though. Way sooner. I'm going to ask some people about how I should go about doing making this. It's going to take a while as it is.

Maybe you couldd o something thats based on the number of good/neutral matchups vs bad matchups.
So it would provide overall how good the characters amtchups are
>_>

What's your deal??? XD

Don't know I never really liked Wario.
I prefer Mario to be honest *nod nod*

Everyone- thanks for rating the thread. It means a lot to me.

Five stars FTW!

 

[Mmac]

Maybe you couldd o something thats based on the number of good/neutral matchups vs bad matchups.
So it would provide overall how good the characters amtchups are

Didn't we already do that?

Also, Yoshi ended up Top Tier!


Also, I'm going to report some Peach stuff to you

Peach has Diddy listed as 55:45 Peach. Diddy has Peach listed as 60:40 Peach
Peach has Falco listed as 50:50. Falco has Peach listed as 60:40 Falco
Peach and Marth both agreed on 60:40 Marth
Peach has listed MetaKnight as 45:55 MetaKnight. MetaKnight has Peach listed as 70:30 MetaKnight

Samus also has a new and improved Matchup Thread here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191376

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

kk. The reason I have the sheik matchup discussion as the set matchup thread is because I felt it was more accurate than the threads in the Zelda forums. I mean, it is done by Ankoku and helped by some good dual mainers like RyokoYaksa. No offense, but there's some noobies in there. >_> Would you guys ever consider visiting the Sheik boards to discuss the matchups in Ankoku's matchup thread? Just a thought. A colaborative effort by both the Sheik and Zelda boards is what I really want. They should have made them into one board. :O

this is true.... but honestly most of the input there is coming from shieks... not Zeldas.... and there is a large difference..... it seems like a good spot for a Zelda/Shiek matchup data thread... but not as good for Zelda straight.

and, we SHOULD have a board for Zelda/Shiek.... but, since we don't... best option I guess is to use shiek for shiek and Zelda for Zelda...... and then pray for the grace of god to produce a good Zelda/Shiek thread that gets solid input from both boards

 

[DanGR]

Also, I'm going to report some Peach stuff to you

Peach has Diddy listed as 55:45 Peach. Diddy has Peach listed as 60:40 Peach
Peach has Falco listed as 50:50. Falco has Peach listed as 60:40 Falco
Peach and Marth both agreed on 60:40 Marth
Peach has listed MetaKnight as 45:55 MetaKnight. MetaKnight has Peach listed as 70:30 MetaKnight

Samus also has a new and improved Matchup Thread here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191376

Sadly, I can't add any of the peach stuff, except v Marh.

That Samus thread looks good though.

Maybe you couldd o something thats based on the number of good/neutral matchups vs bad matchups.
So it would provide overall how good the characters amtchups are
>_>

You mean for ordering the characters in the chart right? That sounds like a good plan, but so does ordering them based on the tier list. We have a problem. :O

this is true.... but honestly most of the input there is coming from shieks... not Zeldas.... and there is a large difference..... it seems like a good spot for a Zelda/Shiek matchup data thread... but not as good for Zelda straight.

and, we SHOULD have a board for Zelda/Shiek.... but, since we don't... best option I guess is to use shiek for shiek and Zelda for Zelda...... and then pray for the grace of god to produce a good Zelda/Shiek thread that gets solid input from both boards

I can understand that. I guess for the sake of representing both characters and their boards, I'll have to. I'll still use ankoku's matchups for sheik and sheik/zelda, but I'll use the matchup thread in the zelda boards for zelda. Agreed? I'll be looking over the thread though, and If I see too much bull, I'll have to go back to ankoku's. I still think the few smart people from the zelda boards should all go over to his thread to represent zelda there instead of having another thread.

 

[Greenstreet]

update sonics ftw

 

[Morrigan]

Peach vs DDD's square is blank, I think you erased it by accident (it should be yellow)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I can understand that. I guess for the sake of representing both characters and their boards, I'll have to. I'll still use ankoku's matchups for sheik and sheik/zelda, but I'll use the matchup thread in the zelda boards for zelda. Agreed? I'll be looking over the thread though, and If I see too much bull, I'll have to go back to ankoku's. I still think the few smart people from the zelda boards should all go over to his thread to represent zelda there instead of having another thread.

maybe after we complete our entire matchup thread?

 

[Steeler]

i'm pretty late, but squirtle is capable of getting a dair/dthrow/hydroplane/whatever on a high percent yoshi without getting grab spiked. :s pokemon trainers have ways of getting around it that it shouldn't be an issue at all. switch squirtle in at high percent and just dance around poking damage at yoshi until you die. switch squirtle in when yoshi is at high percent and just land one good hit. it doesn't even have to kill. etc.

either way, overall pt matchup is still neutral so meh!

 

[LordoftheMorning]

The Lucario boards match up has a few more characters on it than are presented here. It has GaW, Samus, and Ness.

 

[Morrigan]

Peach vs DDD's square is blank, I think you erased it by accident (it should be yellow)

Did you correct the error? Or there was never one? I think I'm seeing things lol.

 

[DanGR]

Did you correct the error? Or there was never one? I think I'm seeing things lol.

You're blind I guess. XD

 

[Mmac]

You might want to take off Falco vs. Yoshi. We're on heavy debate, and it might be actually in our favour now.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yoshi advantages don exits, Mmac. Where have you been?

 

[Prince Of Fire]

The matchup between Marth and Meta Knight is even....it is.

Meta Knight is a constant string of impulsive attacks where as Marth has a COUNTER which works beautifully and stops his momentum. If I'm facing a MK....I definitely go either Marth or GAW. Marth outranges MK but MK has more priority....so the aerial duel is a toss up on timing.

Seriously, MK is not THAT broken....i dont play him (I used to) but he can be stopped.

 

[Emblem Lord]

MK vs Marth is 60/40 MK's favor.

His tilts outrange Marth and Marth can't really gimp him. Plus he is faster in attack speed as well, so Marth really has trouble going toe to toe with him.

It's MK's advantage.

 

[Steel]

Marth v TL isn't even, about 60:40 marth now.

 

[Blackbelt]

Friendly reminder everyone:


DON'T DISCUSS MATCHUPS HERE: DISCUSS THEM ON THE APPROPRIATE MATCHUP THREADS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, PATIENCE, AND COOPERATION.

 

[OlimarFan]

Friendly reminder everyone:


DON'T DISCUSS MATCHUPS HERE: DISCUSS THEM ON THE APPROPRIATE MATCHUP THREADS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, PATIENCE, AND COOPERATION.

Marth v TL isn't even, about 60:40 marth now.

Was that a sin?

 

[Laijin]

Uhh.
Diddy does'nt go even with Metaknight.
Sorry.
And Kirby should have more Blue in his match ups.

 

[Mmac]

Uhh.
Diddy does'nt go even with Metaknight.
Sorry.
And Kirby should have more Blue in his match ups.

I think someone forgot the concept of this thread >_>