Chainchoking

[Anonymous.]

Um, Theres a good name for what this is. I think its called TECH CHASING.

 

[Gleam]

Um, Theres a good name for what this is. I think its called TECH CHASING.

You're about to get yelled at...

 

[AgentJGV]

Um, Theres a good name for what this is. I think its called TECH CHASING.

*throws a frying pan*

Tech chasing = predicting
Chain-choking = reacting.

end of story. Read the OP.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Um, Theres a good name for what this is. I think its called TECH CHASING.

Tell me, did you ever learn how to read? Because you sure as hell aren't showing any sign of it.

Now go read the rest of the thread, idiot.

 

[hyperstation]

*throws a frying pan*

Tech chasing = predicting
Chain-choking = reacting.

end of story. Read the OP.

Just to avoid another semantic debate, I want to clear this up by modifying your post SLIGHTLY.

Gerudo Tech Chasing = predicting with Gerudo

Chainchoking = reacting with Gerudo

 

[AgentJGV]

lol thank you hyper.

 

[Anonymous.]

Gerudo Tech Chasing = predicting with Gerudo

Chainchoking = reacting with Gerudo

thats gotta be the gayest thing I've ever heard.

 

[AgentJGV]

thats gotta be the gayest thing I've ever heard.

Then why are you here?

 

[hyperstation]

thats gotta be the gayest thing I've ever heard.

You've been reported for bigotry. I hope that for once the Smashboards administration does something about it, because I, for one, have had enough.

It continually amazes me that verbal offenses to homosexuals go unnoticed, but those who post racists offenses are (rightly) burnt at the stake.

Don't come around these boards anymore. Please. You give a bad name to humanity, and if you think you can get away with comments like this in a post-gay-rights-movement existence (read 30+ years), then you don't deserve to exist. Let me make it clear, to you and to everyone else, using the term gay - a term reserved EXPRESSLY to define one's sexual orientation - to mean something connotatively demeaning is the practice of a BIGOT. Do you see that? Do you see how you're presenting yourself? Please. Grow up and learn about the human condition and your responsibility in BETTERING it.

...And yes, you have NO idea how serious this post is.

 

[Anonymous.]

You've been reported for bigotry. I hope that for once the Smashboards administration does something about it, because I, for one, have had enough.

It continually amazes me that verbal offenses to homosexuals go unnoticed, but those who post racists offenses are (rightly) burnt at the stake.

Don't come around these boards anymore. Please. You give a bad name to humanity, and if you think you can get away with comments like this in a post-gay-rights-movement existence (read 30+ years), then you don't deserve to exist. Let me make it clear, to you and to everyone else, using the term gay - a term reserved EXPRESSLY to define one's sexual orientation - to mean something connotatively demeaning is the practice of a BIGOT. Do you see that? Do you see how you're presenting yourself? Please. Grow up and learn about the human condition and your responsibility in BETTERING it.

...And yes, you have NO idea how serious this post is.

You've gotta be kidding me.

I have like 20+ different gay friends. Infact, some people would call me gay too. So what. I say that around them all the time. Do they care? No. Of course not. I love how this turned into a discussion about how I'm a bad person for using the word gay. Its a word of slang. Do yourself a favor and understand that.

You're not doing a favor to anybody either. So chill the **** out lmao.

This is also the same thing as tech chasing.

Brawl players are hilarious.

 

[TP]

You've been reported for bigotry. I hope that for once the Smashboards administration does something about it, because I, for one, have had enough.

It continually amazes me that verbal offenses to homosexuals go unnoticed, but those who post racists offenses are (rightly) burnt at the stake.

Don't come around these boards anymore. Please. You give a bad name to humanity, and if you think you can get away with comments like this in a post-gay-rights-movement existence (read 30+ years), then you don't deserve to exist. Let me make it clear, to you and to everyone else, using the term gay - a term reserved EXPRESSLY to define one's sexual orientation - to mean something connotatively demeaning is the practice of a BIGOT. Do you see that? Do you see how you're presenting yourself? Please. Grow up and learn about the human condition and your responsibility in BETTERING it.

...And yes, you have NO idea how serious this post is.

His post was so serious that he didn't finish it with <3 DAD.

I quite agree with DAD. However, this is not the time or place to discuss the lingering effects of bigotry in a modernized civilization. I would like to ask all future posters to ignore this and move on. That includes Anonymous. and DAD. Anonymous., do not try and give the "I have gay friends" excuse. It changes nothing.

Now, let's move on. Please.

 

[Anonymous.]

His post was so serious that he didn't finish it with <3 DAD.

I quite agree with DAD. However, this is not the time or place to discuss the lingering effects of bigotry in a modernized civilization. I would like to ask all future posters to ignore this and move on. That includes Anonymous. and DAD

Sorry for spamming your thread. Your friend shouldn't have had some sad outburst and over reacted to my post.

This is still tech chasing.

 

[hyperstation]

You've gotta be kidding me.

I have like 20+ different gay friends. Infact, some people would call me gay.

LOL chill bro. You're not doing a favor to anybody either.

I don't give a **** how many gay friends you have. What do you want, a trophy?

I'm a visual artist in NEW YORK CITY, the ****ing birthplace of the gay/lesbian/trans/AIDS movement. Do you want to guess how many gay friends I have? Do you want to know how many visual artist figureheads I know personally that ****ing headed up this movement during the 1970s and 80s? Does that mean I can go out shouting flagrant homosexual bigotry from the rooftop?

OF COURSE NOT.

Grow up, you child, and please just stay out of here unless you actually have something useful to say.

(I'm sorry for spamming our Chainchoking thread, TP, but you have to understand: as far as I'm concerned, response to injustice isn't spam regardless of its context. I've said my piece now, and I'll happily get back on topic. I <3 Chainchoking)

 

[AgentJGV]

...oooo kkkk. well then...wait what was the last thing in relevance that i said? I think it was about aerial Gerudo after GUA...yeah

Also i thought of a slight problem. when an opponent just gets up after a choke does he have enough time to sidestep/attack to break the chain?

lastly (slightly off topic) is it possible to jump from the laying down position? I don't think you can but...I'm having noobish doubts.

 

[Anonymous.]

I don't give a **** how many gay friends you have. What do you want, a trophy?

I'm a visual artist in NEW YORK CITY, the ****ing birthplace of the gay/lesbian/trans/AIDS movement. Do you want to guess how many gay friends I have? Do you want to know how many visual artist figureheads I know personally that ****ing headed up this movement during the 1970s and 80s? Does that mean I can go out shouting flagrant homosexual bigotry from the rooftop?

OF COURSE NOT.

Grow up, you child, and please just stay out of here unless you actually have something useful to say.

(I'm sorry for spamming our Chainchoking thread, TP, but you have to understand: as far as I'm concerned, response to injustice isn't spam regardless of its context. I've said my piece now, and I'll happily get back on topic. I <3 Chainchoking)

Get trolled. Just because I say something is gay in that context doesn't mean ****. Get over yourself.

Also, responding to spam is just as bad as spamming. L2post.

 

[TP]

Get trolled. Just because I say something is gay in that context doesn't mean ****. Get over yourself.

Also, responding to spam is just as bad as spamming. L2post.

This time I reported you myself. And no, responding to spam isn't as bad as spamming when the original spam was offensive and inappropriate. L2equality.

Whoops, sort of broke my own "let's move on" rule there.

 

[hyperstation]

...oooo kkkk. well then...wait what was the last thing in relevance that i said? I think it was about aerial Gerudo after GUA...yeah

Also i thought of a slight problem. when an opponent just gets up after a choke does he have enough time to sidestep/attack to break the chain?

lastly (slightly off topic) is it possible to jump from the laying down position? I don't think you can but...I'm having noobish doubts.

Agent, I'm all about expanding the complexity of Chainchoking via Aerial Gerudo, but I did some testing the other night and found that all get up animations are still possible out of Aerial Gerudo.

If memory serves me, Aerial Gerudo has slightly slower (or maybe equal?) start up time as ground Gerudo, so uses for how one might use the Aerial Gerudo to advance the Chainchoking metagame escape me. I'm not writing it off yet, though. One use is of course the Aerial Gerudo Ledge Spike that Mmac posted a while ago and I included in my CC video. Risky? yes. Pimp? yes.

Anyone got any other ideas for Aerial Gerudo in Chainchoking?

 

[AgentJGV]

I realize that it can be slower. That's why I'm saying to only use it after a GUA. Instead of lowering your shield, then gerudo...ing, just shield jump.

 

[TP]

Agent, I'm all about expanding the complexity of Chainchoking via Aerial Gerudo, but I did some testing the other night and found that all get up animations are still possible out of Aerial Gerudo.

If memory serves me, Aerial Gerudo has slightly slower (or maybe equal?) start up time as ground Gerudo, so uses for how one might use the Aerial Gerudo to advance the Chainchoking metagame escape me. I'm not writing it off yet, though. One use is of course the Aerial Gerudo Ledge Spike that Mmac posted a while ago and I included in my CC video. Risky? yes. Pimp? yes.

Anyone got any other ideas for Aerial Gerudo in Chainchoking?

In theory, the aerial version could start quicker and reach farther and end quicker for less punishment. It is also possible that none of those are true. However, this takes more button pressing. It is a Gerudo with the addition of pressing jump. That is a delay that we may not be able to afford even if the aerial version is better. We need testing of length and start up before we can make any real decision, if you ask me.

 

[hyperstation]

I realize that it can be slower. That's why I'm saying to only use it after a GUA. Instead of lowering your shield, then gerudo...ing, just shield jump.

I suppose you're right. Against certain GUA which swing low along the ground (MK might work, for instance), maybe you could just Aerial Gerudo them out of the GUA. This has less to do exclusively with Chainchoking and more to do with Gerudo Followups in general. There are guaranteed DTilts out of an Aerial Gerudo -> Shielded GUA (a very common follow up in my experience) -> DTilt.

Maybe you've got yourself a little project, Agent.

 

[AgentJGV]

Maybe you've got yourself a little project, Agent.

o great. lol.

but yeah most of what i did was against MK. I'll try to test the other characters when i get the time.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Actually I use quite abit of aerial Gerudo for chain choking myself when I feel risky. Generally I find aerial is MUCH easier to connect with and does alot more damage than a ground version. Also I can guarantee what was mentioned earlier it DOES ignore certain characters GUA's too since Ganon flies over them and still grabs them.
e
Although theres a slightly higher startup time theres actually a easier time frame for reaction on startup because of the larger grab range with distance. Also because of the better distance Ganon can afford to take a step backwards after slamming them down with a ground Gerudo making himself safe.

The big issue I find however is its not entirely safe on finish, it seems theres a very small time frame for you to put up a shield on cooldown before they can hit you with a getup attack. Also if you don't take a step backwards before an aerial gerudo than Ganon has a massive blindspot if they roll at you.

So its a higher payoff but higher risk.

But something like Gerudo -> Aerial Gerudo -> Shield GUA or Gerudo again -> Aerial Gerudo can be even more devastating than a normal chainchoke.

 

[MK26]

Question: can someone actually test Ganon choking a chokeable character (say, for relevance, Kirby)?
The player pauses the game after the Kirby is able to roll (aka both charachetrs can move).
Then, the player holds side and B for Ganon and up for Kirby, unpauses the game (so both actions start at the same time) and spam Kirby's u-tilt. Does Ganon have enough time to predict a regular get-up and still continue the chainchoke? I dont want theory, I want someone to test this. I've been told before that it's possible, but I'm still doubtful.

What about reacting to the regular getup, with shield-drop lag?

And is there an assumed maximum number of consecutive chokes, if the opponent is an idiot and continues to DI/roll toward the closest ledge?

 

[MBreeto]

Does the game register the inputs put in during the pause screen when the game gets started again? I don't think it would, but I'm not sure. Also, if they keep rolling towards the edge, put in a kill move one or two rolls from the edge if they are at a high enough percent maybe?

 

[Player-3]

Agent, I'm all about expanding the complexity of Chainchoking via Aerial Gerudo, but I did some testing the other night and found that all get up animations are still possible out of Aerial Gerudo.

If memory serves me, Aerial Gerudo has slightly slower (or maybe equal?) start up time as ground Gerudo, so uses for how one might use the Aerial Gerudo to advance the Chainchoking metagame escape me. I'm not writing it off yet, though. One use is of course the Aerial Gerudo Ledge Spike that Mmac posted a while ago and I included in my CC video. Risky? yes. Pimp? yes.

Anyone got any other ideas for Aerial Gerudo in Chainchoking?

what about those characters that roll too little in? could a good DIed SHed Aerial Gerudo work then?


yeah i know i dont post here much... im a lurker

 

[Clai]

Yes, you can reverse the direction of a Gerudo, and yes, it's easy to do. Just try it.

Why would we direct the Gerudo intentionally in the wrong direction just so we can reverse it, thus loosing frames. This concept of yours makes absolutely no sense, unless your verbage is just confusing me.

It's likely my verbage is confusing you. I sadly tend to do that.

I meant that if you know that the opponent is going to roll, but don't know which way he's rolling, you can start a dash (since you're not getting attacked) and then the instant you know which direction he's rolling, you Flame choke in that direction.

I'll try to make more sense in the future.

 

[Laijin]

Sweet.
Tech Chasing has been discovered!
Finally, a useful advanced brawl technique.

 

[Renth]

I knew there was a reason I don't play Brawl... Not only is the game slow and boring but the community makes me want to kick puppies with their stupidity.

Where to begin?

Just to avoid another semantic debate, I want to clear this up by modifying your post SLIGHTLY.

Gerudo Tech Chasing = predicting with Gerudo

Chainchoking = reacting with Gerudo

Calling it the "Gerudo" is stupid. It's forward B, not everything needs stupid names. What's next Ganons down air is going to be Thunder feet?

Tech Chasing is reaction, good players react to where they're going and not just randomly guess like you're assuming.

You've been reported for bigotry. I hope that for once the Smashboards administration does something about it, because I, for one, have had enough.

It continually amazes me that verbal offenses to homosexuals go unnoticed, but those who post racists offenses are (rightly) burnt at the stake.

Don't come around these boards anymore. Please. You give a bad name to humanity, and if you think you can get away with comments like this in a post-gay-rights-movement existence (read 30+ years), then you don't deserve to exist. Let me make it clear, to you and to everyone else, using the term gay - a term reserved EXPRESSLY to define one's sexual orientation - to mean something connotatively demeaning is the practice of a BIGOT. Do you see that? Do you see how you're presenting yourself? Please. Grow up and learn about the human condition and your responsibility in BETTERING it.

...And yes, you have NO idea how serious this post is.

You realize how stupid you just made yourself look? By calling something "gay" doesn't mean they're calling it homosexual and if you're that anal about it then you and the rest of the post-gay-rights-movement can shove it. Honestly get that angry over something so tiny as that is funny.

you have any idea how many racist jokes are spouted out daily? We say racist and gay bashing terms on a daily basis why? cause it's funny not because we are racist just because IT'S FUNNY. There isn't a day that goes by people don't refer to something as "gay" but they don't mean it's homosexual they use it as a simile for stupidity, again getting so anal over something like that is ********.

How can you say he gives a bad name to humanity, whenever homosexuality is a sin in the bible? People like you make other people look bad just to "help your cause" whenever yes you can have your rights and your blah blah blah it's like black people or indians saying they hate the white man for slavery or stealing their land

It's over no one cares anymore, there will always be racism in the world and you and no one else is ever going to change that. That's like saying someday there will be no crime, no murders, and everyone will be living in a happy peaceful happy cloud land where nothing ever goes wrong. People will always be living on the streets, people will always be racist, and no amount of protest can change that. Just because one person says "thats gay" doesn't make them a horrible person since you're so quickly to judge people.

yes the term "gerudo" is indeed gay i'm not calling it homosexual i'm calling it stupid. get use to it everyone uses gay as a another word for stupid and it's not going to stop anytime soon.

 

[ShinGaruda]

Can we at least stay on topic, people? (yes I know this post isn't helping)

 

[Renth]

Can we at least stay on topic, people? (yes I know this post isn't helping)

Yes, everyone is welcome to ignore my post. I saw an issue that that is a bit of a pet peeve to me sorry for the inconvience. However I stand by everything I said that's just my position. There's no hate here flame wars are not necessary.

 

[TP]

I knew there was a reason I don't play Brawl... Not only is the game slow and boring but the community makes me want to kick puppies with their stupidity.

Tech Chasing is reaction, good players react to where they're going and not just randomly guess like you're assuming.

Ironically, you could argue that this is speeding up Brawl since you need to have such good reaction time. Complaining about Brawl being slow in this of all threads is an interesting choice.

And you're wrong. We ARE the good players. Not me specifically, but the people who have posted in this thread are quite good. If you want to get technical, Kosk has not posted in this thread, but we have seen his videos and he does not do anything like this.

I'm ignoring the rest of your post for moving on purposes.

 

[:034:]

There's a big difference between being 'good' in Brawl and 'good' in Melee, TP. >_> Melee is a much harder game than Brawl, so saying we're the good players is probably like an insult to Renth.

 

[Z1GMA]

Probably common knowledge;
Don't forget that the closer you are to your opponent the less time/frames it takes for you ta land the Gerudo. (Yea I know it's obvious)

So after the GUA you could just move forward a little bit before Gerudo'ing him/her...

- Huh? Move forward? That's just stupid! It'll only add more time/frames before you can Gerudo.

- Yes, a normal Gerudo would only take more time to pull of if you take a little walk, rather than to just Gerudo as soon as possible after the GUA..
But aerial Gerudo is different; jumping diagonaly towards your opponent reduces the time/frames, since jumping diagonaly doesn't take more time than jumping straight up.

Grounded: Walking takes more time than standing still (lol, of course)
Aerial: Jumping forward doesn't take more time than jumping straight up.

(( I hope you all will be able to understand what I just wrote.. please excuse my bad english ))

 

[hyperstation]

I sent Renth a private message to respond to his post. No use continuing to destroy a decent thread.

Z1GMA, I follow, and it leads me to my point:

My thinking on Chainchoking has changed drastically in the last few days (for the better, I believe).

This grand experiment called Chainchoking - for the sake of the haters we might call it frame-perfect tech chasing (I'll wave my white flag on semantics ) - has shown that, with the right speed of reaction, in theory you can hold people in a chain of gerudos ad infinitum. What breaks this chain is user error on the Ganon main's part or the terrain interfering, most likely gerudo -> forced ledge grab.

My thinking has changed in that, I believe optimally one might get a chain of 3-5 chokes realistically before the chain is broken. This is fantastic, in my opinion. 3-5 moves refreshing stale iDAs, DTilts, and UAirs, and each succeeding gerudo adds continued frustration to your opponent; it advances your mental advantage. This, in conjunction with RPGing and pummeling is going to allow smart Ganon's to kill at low percentages with fresher kill moves, a prospect that ultimately is the best part of this whole experiment.

The concept of Chainchoking certain characters as a way of leveling a match-up still holds my interest. That is, if we can chainchoke Sheik, Pika, MK, and other bad match-ups, that is of course a worthwhile skill in which I am still invested. However, the concept as a whole I no longer want to view as a metagame changer for a couple reasons. 1). Ganon's playstyle is far more interesting than just reading and reacting. Well, actually, that's one thing he's incredibly good at, but his tech-chasing game is far more in depth than JUST chainchoking. We're not Dedede, and we're not going to just chaingrab for a stage spike (this isn't a jab at Dedede users. I like that guy. A LOT. ). 2). I think that unless one becomes so good at chainchoking - with near instant reaction time and a new photographic memory of all the get up animations with the ability to cognate those animations at a speed which allows for said instant reaction time - it's going to consume Ganon's game in a way which I believe will ultimately hinder him, not help him.

Which brings me to Z1GMA's point. Perhaps an Aerial Gerudo DIed towards the opponent is a fantastic idea for catching some opponents out of GUAs. However, if your thinking has changed, like mine, you're then only complicating a system which I believe is already complicated beyond full implementation due to its scale. This idea of yours is part and parcel to the very basic, but very difficult notion of chainchoking. It's a worthwhile investigation, but I don't think it has purpose HERE.

This isn't me surrendering the idea of chainchoking. I still think it's an amazing idea and all the research here to find out that there is indeed frame perfect, inescapable chains of gerudos in Brawl is very fruitful work. I'm sticking behind this work 100%. The ways in which I plan to implement and apply this research is all that has changed.

<3 DAD

 

[victra♥]

So, you guys realize that techchasing and reacting to a tech is the exact same thing right?

It just seems strange that you guys are naming a term that's been around for years. =/

and lol at you guys reporting Cash Mooney even though what he said is legit.

 

[hyperstation]

So, you guys realize that techchasing and reacting to a tech is the exact same thing right?

It just seems strange that you guys are naming a term that's been around for years. =/

and lol at you guys reporting Cash Mooney even though what he said is legit.

Look. This experiment was to find out if we could essentially make Gerudo Tech Chasing frame perfect. That is, make it inescapable. It turns out you can, and we've decided to call that chainchoking. If you have a nomenclature issue, that's one thing, but the Ganon boards like and accept it, and I think that's fine.

 

[Z1GMA]

So, you guys realize that techchasing and reacting to a tech is the exact same thing right?

The term "techchasing" alone, doesn't say ****.

There are two kinds techchasing:
#1: Presumption based techchasing... and #2: reaction based techchasing.

"Chainchoking" = #2

To only say techchasing is like saying "I want a hotdog, but I won't tell you what I want ON it."

The word "Techchasing" is a compilation word for both #1 & #2; as well as:
#3. Luck based techchasing... and #4. Mindreading-based techchasing >_>

So all you people saying techchasing and Chainchoking are the same thing... would you please mind to GTFO ~

 

[:034:]

To only say techchasing is like saying "I want a hotdog, but I won't tell you what I want ON it."

You just put choking people with dark magic on the same level as eating hot dogs.

Great job.

 

[Z1GMA]

You just put choking people with dark magic on the same level as eating hot dogs.

Great job.

Well you CAN choke on a hotdog, soo..

 

[:034:]

Well you CAN choke on a hotdog, soo..

....point