We aren't talking about mind games at all, and we aren't talking about predicting or mind reading. We're talking about observing all the get up animations and doing it purely based reaction.
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Chainchoking
- Thread starter TP
- Start date
Yea it could probably help you with a few frames.
Considering the timing for chain choking, that might be very useful.
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
I've been considering doing that so that I can jump OoS -> aerial Gerudo.
I expect it would save me a bit from shifting my left thumb around.
I can't test, though.
About this tech, yeah every Ganon will have to learn it, but I'm still finding a lot of success with prediction.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
Yo Twilight,
I got your vid and it's f*cking BRUTAL. I'm encoding and uploading as I type this, so as soon as it's ready, it'll be posted here and you'll have to put it in the OP. I mean, this vid is just disgusting. I think it could convince a lot of people to pick up Ganon and a lot of MKs to be scared. LOL. Get ready, y'all.
I got your vid and it's f*cking BRUTAL. I'm encoding and uploading as I type this, so as soon as it's ready, it'll be posted here and you'll have to put it in the OP. I mean, this vid is just disgusting. I think it could convince a lot of people to pick up Ganon and a lot of MKs to be scared. LOL. Get ready, y'all.
TP
Smash Master
Sweet. I suppose you made it then? Jolly good stuff. I know there are many things you have been working on that you want to make videos of, so thanks for taking care of my thing quickly.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
Well, I prioritized this video because I was so d*mn tired of nubs coming in and saying "oh, I can do this like 5 times in a row! I just guess which way they're goin!"
Here's the vid. ENJOY:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0Y9c0hfvM
TP
Smash Master
Well done. I'll add it right away.
Kief
Smash Ace
hahahaha this is awesome. i will love ganon forever despite being a link main if this manages anger mk's.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
This is the dawning of the new age!
This is the coming of the one true ruler!
This is Hyrule!
THIS! IS! GANONDORF!
This is the coming of the one true ruler!
This is Hyrule!
THIS! IS! GANONDORF!
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
So let me get this straight.
I can just roll to the edge and grab onto it and then do whatever I want right?
Grats on the 20% combo I guess.
I can just roll to the edge and grab onto it and then do whatever I want right?
Grats on the 20% combo I guess.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
Uuuuuummmm....no. Ganon will at least get three grabs off of you if you simply try to roll to the ledge, probably more. This is assuming that he doesn't decide to go for a guaranteed combo when you've just about reached the ledge, adding on at least 15% more damage. Not to mention all of the hurt the auto ledgegrab will get you. So no, it's not 20%. It's more like a guaranteed 40%, with a very good chance to kill the **** out of you.
Clai
Smash Lord
So with the Choke on the ledge, the one that forces Metaknight to grab the edge, I'm assuming that the time in which Metaknight could act is the same as if Metaknight grabs the ledge normally, am I right? As awesome as those ledge options are, I just don't think that they could be viable on anyone, especially one that can just drop down and use a Frame 2 up-air like Metaknight. Did you input the Metaknight to do something while he was on the ledge, like rolling?
I love the research you guys are doing this, it's all so comprehensive. Looks like it will be dang near impossible to do on a regular basis, though, so the rest of us aren't going to be called newbs if we stick to our regular prediction chases, right? Chainchoking looks like something that I'll try and maybe get right once in a blue moon, but if I strain myself trying to do this all the time I pull off a Flame Choke I think I might give myself a migrane.
I love the research you guys are doing this, it's all so comprehensive. Looks like it will be dang near impossible to do on a regular basis, though, so the rest of us aren't going to be called newbs if we stick to our regular prediction chases, right? Chainchoking looks like something that I'll try and maybe get right once in a blue moon, but if I strain myself trying to do this all the time I pull off a Flame Choke I think I might give myself a migrane.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
I didn't do ANY testing on the ledge attacks. In fact, I'd bet that they're all escapable. Pretty much everytime I stage spike someone hanging on the ledge it's escapable, however. The forced ledge grab from the gerudo happens very quickly and is very surprising, to say the least. I imagine certain options, such as UAir, FF UAir, and SH DAir would be useful even if the opponent tries to ledge drop, ledge hop, or get up/roll onto the stage. I DAir people as they get onto the ledge all the time, during their roll, and I UAir people all the time even if they try to drop to avoid it, because it's sweeping range is so big. The latter part of my vid was more just for fun and to get people's ideas flowing. Only the part about chainchoking is performed under any type of scientific scrutiny.
There's still a hell of a lot of work to do in order to capitalize on what chainchoking COULD do. My video was a proof of concept first and an instruction vid second. I'd say we're still just scratching the surface.
EDIT; regarding what you said about it being hard to do on a regular basis, I concede that point. I 100% agree this will be tough, but think about it this way:
1 choke + 1 dtilt = x percent
3 chokes + 1 dtilt = x + 18 percent and a frustrated opponent
The mental aspect and the fact that multiple chokes in a row serves like grab pummeling to refresh are moves can NOT be underscored enough. Ganon becomes very scary if one knows that every time they get choked, there's a chance they won't be regaining control for a little while. Who maintains momentum and controls rhythm is SO important in brawl.
Shadow Nataku
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2002
- Messages
- 905
To be honest out of the ledge options its only for catching out people unaware that they loose their invincibility frames the only even remotely near guaranteed followup is DTilt.
Anyway something for thought but we know how a aerial choke does nearly twice the damage of a normal Choke right? Would the aerial version be considered a different attack for the stale move tally? Just after 3 or 4 successful chokes which I can normally manage I tend to prefer to add on a aerial choke since it connects easier and the extra damage is a nice finish.
Anyway something for thought but we know how a aerial choke does nearly twice the damage of a normal Choke right? Would the aerial version be considered a different attack for the stale move tally? Just after 3 or 4 successful chokes which I can normally manage I tend to prefer to add on a aerial choke since it connects easier and the extra damage is a nice finish.
Shadow Nataku
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2002
- Messages
- 905
Yes its guaranteed.
Basically in the game Ganon can actually aerial choke grab people off the ledge straight into a guaranteed ganoncide and they CANNOT regrab the ledge. However within the game there are 6 characters Ganon can spike WITHOUT killing himself. They are Pikachu, Charizard, Jigglypuff, Ness, Lucas and Metaknight as you saw in the video.
DK, Mario, Ice Climbers, Luigi, Mr G&W, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are also vulnerable to a aerial grab off the ledge however they turn it into a normal Ganoncide.
:034:
Smash Hero
Video is down for me.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
You have the wrong video link up; http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0Y9c0hfvM
DAD I was still working on the video <_<. I guess I won't have to anymore.
DAD I was still working on the video <_<. I guess I won't have to anymore.
I wouldn't mind seeing it when it's finished.
AgentJGV
Smash Journeyman
the more videos the better.
If there is any technique that will bring Ganon to the top its this one.
If there is any technique that will bring Ganon to the top its this one.
qerkdtx
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 292
Agreed, this is really important.
TP
Smash Master
Video link fixed.
Kalm, whether or not you finish your vid is completely your choice. No pressure.
Kalm, whether or not you finish your vid is completely your choice. No pressure.
Clai
Smash Lord
You don't have to explain this to me. I can see the tremendous potential in this. Especially when the opponent asks you how the heck you're predicting right every time and you respond, "Oh, I'm not predicting, I can already tell what you're doing just by your animations..." he'll think that he's entirely at your mercy since as long as you keep your reaction timing, you can do it how many times you want.
I see it something like a technique that can only be done rarely (unless you have the eyes of a cat), but once you do it, your opponent will never see your Ganon the same. Good luck to those that can pull this off.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
F*CKIN' A!
Kholdy pointed out to me that when I swapped out clips that were problematic for the first vid, I forgot to resynch all the subtitles. I had to make a THIRD cut of the video, which I'm encoding now. Sorry guys, this is the LAST time I'll upload this video, but I figured it was important to get it right. TP, I'll post the new link in this post and you can update the OP when you have a chance. Sorry, dudes. I took a sleeping pill right before I was making the last bit of edits on the vid and I think it started to effect my judgement and I just wanted to crawl off to bed. LOL.
Vid link in a few minutes:
Kholdy pointed out to me that when I swapped out clips that were problematic for the first vid, I forgot to resynch all the subtitles. I had to make a THIRD cut of the video, which I'm encoding now. Sorry guys, this is the LAST time I'll upload this video, but I figured it was important to get it right. TP, I'll post the new link in this post and you can update the OP when you have a chance. Sorry, dudes. I took a sleeping pill right before I was making the last bit of edits on the vid and I think it started to effect my judgement and I just wanted to crawl off to bed. LOL.
Vid link in a few minutes:
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
As a move becomes more important to a character's meta, that is exactly what makes it so the players are noobs who can't do it.
Sorry. You and I will have to figure it out. Well, maybe you. I'm gonna be the guy who cancels utilt. ^_^
How difficult it is just separates pros from newcomers, which makes competition nicer.
(Although, I think this complaint about Brawl went away a couple months ago.)
I can't wait to watch this vid.
. . . hyperstation. >: (
Nah it's fine, you applauded my legend. 8D
hyperstation
Smash Lord
Yo, Youtube is being a serious b*tch right now. I've tried uploading like 4 times and it's not going through. I'll get it yet, though. The vid is brutal. hang in there, buddy.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
VIIIIDDDDEEEEEOOOOO!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMTL74uIXlw&feature=channel_page
No more updates. It's perfect now. Zeon, LEARN THIS.
TP, update the OP, plz.
<3 DAD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMTL74uIXlw&feature=channel_page
No more updates. It's perfect now. Zeon, LEARN THIS.
TP, update the OP, plz.
<3 DAD
Sgt. Baker
Smash Ace
That.....was very pretty
TP
Smash Master
It's about ****ing time, DAD.
Just kidding, thanks for doing so much for this.
Just kidding, thanks for doing so much for this.
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
Rob Diedrick said:
Do work.Big Black said:
>.>
hyperstation
Smash Lord
I see you're wearing your lollerskates.
AgentJGV
Smash Journeyman
DUDE your sig is awesome!
and just so this post is relevent, I noticed something when i was attempting to chainchoke today. Whenever my opponent would get choked right on the ledge but not enough so that they would grab it, when i would try to choke again, i would miss and go off the stage. Any reason?
and just so this post is relevent, I noticed something when i was attempting to chainchoke today. Whenever my opponent would get choked right on the ledge but not enough so that they would grab it, when i would try to choke again, i would miss and go off the stage. Any reason?
hyperstation
Smash Lord
Not quite sure. Against what character? If you watch my vid, you'll notice I have MK against the ledge and he doesn't ledge grab and I keep grabbing him anyway. I've never had a problem with it, but it'd be good to find out.
And thanks for the sig compliment.
AgentJGV
Smash Journeyman
*groans...throws fish*
tech chasing is predicting. this is reacting.
@Hyper: I was against metaknight too. I might have been too close, but when he rolled towards the very edge i went through him and fell off the stage.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
For the love of god STOP. Noobs STOP. STOP. STOP!
READ. No one wants to hear your misguided semantic back patting. Gerudo is, by it's very f*cking nature, a FANTASTIC tech chasing tool. We are not teaching you how to tech chase. We're teaching you to LOOK. With your EYES. To LOOK and to SEE and to REACT to what your opponent does following a Gerudo. What is SO HARD to understand about that. I've had enough.
Do NOT post here unless you are 100% SURE you know what you're talking about.
Once you're 100% sure, still don't post until you've checked, rechecked, and checked the inside of your a$$ to make sure you didn't miss anything leaving you uninformed, caught with you pants down like a f*cking noob. Got it? THANK YOU.
Also, yes, you can be too close to your opponent, in which case the Gerudo hit box will start after Ganon's hand has already moved through your opponent.@Hyper: I was against metaknight too. I might have been too close, but when he rolled towards the very edge i went through him and fell off the stage.