Chainchoking

[hyperstation]

LOL.

Should I make the OP more artistic and colorful? Can someone get me a good picture of a Murder Choke?

Here you go, homie! Oops...

And yes, the OP should be beautiful. I've added this thread to the DSL recommended reading list, so you have a certain air of quality to uphold. I mean, is DSL the most beautiful looking thread you've ever seen or what?

I wish the Ganon boards were always this active. It's pretty awesome.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

Nah, I was just casting around for characters and I thought about your Ness and his gay projectiles. Then I thought about Chokechaining for the kill. And then I laughed and added him.

You won't do that to me? will you. <3

 

[TP]

I wish the Ganon boards were always this active. It's pretty awesome.

We'll all be up all night once someone finds the Volcancel.


EDIT: I've updated the OP to make it look nicer, feel free to critique it. I changed a few sentences and whatever. Still waiting on an ACTUAL picture of a Murder Choke.

2009 is going to be so good for the King.

 

[@HomE]

im willing to do some testing if someone wants to PM me instructions exactly how you'd like this done im here and ready

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Okay, it'll be done in 3-4 days, 5 at most, no further then that. That fast enough for you guys?

 

[Z1GMA]

Not intended to post _-_

 

[Gleam]

Just tested it out on a few characters. It works on Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Game and watch and Jigglypuff.

Note Jigglypuff is pretty hard. For one you need to powershield her get up attack. Secondly her back roll has a very short range. My suggestion would be after Gerudoing her, step back a few spaces.

 

[TP]

Okay, it'll be done in 3-4 days, 5 at most, no further then that. That fast enough for you guys?

I created this whole thing, and I am not going to get around to testing my own tech for 2 or 3 days. Take your time.

Just tested it out on a few characters. It works on Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Game and watch and Jigglypuff.

Note Jigglypuff is pretty hard. For one you need to powershield her get up attack. Secondly her back roll has a very short range. My suggestion would be after Gerudoing her, step back a few spaces.

Sweet. What speeds can you get those characters consistently on? As a side note, I really do recommend you call the roll away from Ganon "Out" and the other one "In" to avoid confusion. It seemed like the most clear way to say it to me.


I would like to point out that I no longer consider Final Destination a bad stage for Ganon. That is chainchoke central.

 

[Gleam]

I created this whole thing, and I am not going to get around to testing my own tech for 2 or 3 days. Take your time.



Sweet. What speeds can you get those characters consistently on? As a side note, I really do recommend you call the roll away from Ganon "Out" and the other one "In" to avoid confusion. It seemed like the most clear way to say it to me.


I would like to point out that I no longer consider Final Destination a bad stage for Ganon. That is chainchoke central.

Well for Jigglypuff I was able to conseucutively hit Jigglypuff around 5-6 times at 1/2 speed and around 2-3 times around 2/3 speed. I was also testing another thing, and since our pont of *chainchoking* is to consitently land Flame chokes in order to build up damage and stuff. I would suggest if possible, flame choking near the edge (The opponente at the edge) This will allow less space for opponents to roll.

 

[TP]

Well for Jigglypuff I was able to conseucutively hit Jigglypuff around 5-6 times at 1/2 speed and around 2-3 times around 2/3 speed. I was also testing another thing, and since our pont of *chainchoking* is to consitently land Flame chokes in order to build up damage and stuff. I would suggest if possible, flame choking near the edge (The opponente at the edge) This will allow less space for opponents to roll.

Yes, it is easiest near the edge. However, once they have rolled all the way to the ledge, they will grab it after your next choke, ending the chain. That is why it is time to kill as soon as they get there. If they are about half a roll from the edge when you choke them, you may well have a guaranteed Fsmash if they roll to the edge. If not, we certainly have a guaranteed Ftilt on every character. This is still upon reaction; if they don't roll to the edge, choke again.

 

[Arty]

I don't really understand how this will work if the opponent doesn't GUA or roll away and just lays there?

 

[SaltyKracka]

I don't really understand how this will work if the opponent doesn't GUA or roll away and just lays there?

If they just get up, they're asking to get choked.

 

[Arty]

I'm not talking about getting up, I'm talking about just laying there.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Eventually, you HAVE to get up. Or get dair/dtilt/ftilt/utilted.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

UpTilt? >_>

 

[Dolphination]

This stuff still would take insane reflexes and the frame knowledge of every character on top of the loss of your follow-ups...in that case im in 0_o

I practiced for a bit today on ROB just to get a feel and then random characters for almost an hour...It is very freakin hard. I may have to start taking some kind of smashroids to get the dorf to move like lightning. I am working this whole weekend and everything but I would like to be more active on these boards...if after this weekend is up you guys still are testing I will try and help.

 

[SaltyKracka]

UpTilt? >_>

If people are just going to lie there and take it? Yes.

 

[@HomE]

OK, i played tons of brawl with my two friends yesterday after getting all pumped up about this post and the results.... FANTASTIC

they were really pissed off and frustrated once i start following ANYthing they did, and once they are frustrated, they make more mistakes and that leads to..... MORE CHAINCHOKING!!

OH and if they dont get up... you TS them...after my friends had difficulty avoiding my chainchokes they started just not getting up after i grabbed them, and i just TS'd them right off the ground (may not work on tiny chars?)

i have some replays but i dont have any recording equipment, i can try to get some matches on youtube at some point.

 

[TP]

Just tested it out on a few characters. It works on Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Game and watch and Jigglypuff.

Note Jigglypuff is pretty hard. For one you need to powershield her get up attack. Secondly her back roll has a very short range. My suggestion would be after Gerudoing her, step back a few spaces.

I just proved that it does not work on Game and Watch. There is no way to react to the GUA in time to block. Even in 1/4, I couldn't block it. Maybe I'm just slow.

 

[@HomE]

I just proved that it does not work on Game and Watch. There is no way to react to the GUA in time to block. Even in 1/4, I couldn't block it. Maybe I'm just slow.

thats strange.. cause my friend mains G&W and I was destroying him with chainchoking yesterday. its possible that hes just awful (HAHA)

i mean like he got mad at me

 

[Gleam]

I just proved that it does not work on Game and Watch. There is no way to react to the GUA in time to block. Even in 1/4, I couldn't block it. Maybe I'm just slow.

I can understand how Game and Watches GUA can be hard to react to. But it is possible to chokechain him. One thing I noticed that may help in shielding his GUA is when he's about to do it, Game and Watches mouth opens up.

Now his mouth opens up when he rolls or dodges, but when dong a get up attack, there's a small pause before he does his GUA.

 

[TP]

I can understand how Game and Watches GUA can be hard to react to. But it is possible to chokechain him. One thing I noticed that may help in shielding his GUA is when he's about to do it, Game and Watches mouth opens up.

Now his mouth opens up when he rolls or dodges, but when dong a get up attack, there's a small pause before he does his GUA.

I'll look into it... eventually.

Currently, I am planning to do some massive testing tomorrow. I don't know how conclusive my tests will be, but it is a start.

 

[hyperstation]

I did my first round of "testing" this out last night and it made me so giddy. I see the insane potential in this. Ganon is becoming one of the more technical characters in the game insofar as it requires that you learn all the animations of all the characters in the game. We've gotta get all this stuff down pat by the time the next tier list comes out because this is the stuff that F Tier is made of, baby!!! no more G tier for us

 

[TP]

I finally tested every character! That took me about 4 hours of straight testing. I'm done testing for a long time. You guys MUST keep testing, however, because there is no chance that my list is completely accurate. I could have very easily missed something, and I am sure this list will change quite a bit as more people test. In other words, my list is a starting point, nothing more.

 

[Blad01]

Very interesting, good job twillight !

Also, i would like to know something about Gerudo : If they are waiting on the floor, just doing nothing? What moves could touch them ? ... Everything ? It Would be awesome to trick an opponent into doing nothing, and then catch him with a smash... :D

 

[Ray_Kalm]

One Ice Climber doesn't necessarily have to be dead, to be able to chainchoke them. They're one of our only match-up where our super armour comes in play.

 

[TP]

One Ice Climber doesn't necessarily have to be dead, to be able to chainchoke them. They're one of our only match-up where our super armour comes in play.

This is hard enough without that sort of distraction.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Twilight Prince, you know why you are awesome....because you made sure the man in green, stays in green

 

[AgentJGV]

Also, i would like to know something about Gerudo : If they are waiting on the floor, just doing nothing? What moves could touch them ? ... Everything ? It Would be awesome to trick an opponent into doing nothing, and then catch him with a smash... :D

Anything from a D tilt to a Murder Quake works.

 

[TP]

Fsmash angled down is going to hit every character, but consider this: Chainchoking requires you to have faster reflexes than 21 frames after the start of a move. If you are good enough to chainchoke, your opponent is good enough to react in time to avoid the Fsmash. The correct answer, if you are good enough, is to just stand there until they move, and choke again. If they roll to the ledge, then you Fsmash or Ftilt or whatever. Until they reach the edge, another choke is automatically the best option. An Fsmash from the middle of the stage needs them to be hurt much more than an Fsmash near the edge, which is why we choke until they are in that position.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

What about instead of looking at the character just look at your opponent's controller when playing IRL. Seriously aside from people mashing everything it's be obious if you looked over and saw what they put it. Or is that cheating some how?
lol controller hax

 

[TP]

What about instead of looking at the character just look at your opponent's controller when playing IRL. Seriously aside from people mashing everything it's be obious if you looked over and saw what they put it. Or is that cheating some how?
lol controller hax

That would be harder, I think. First of all, good luck noticing them hitting the A button to do a GUA. More importantly, their hands and controller aren't holding perfectly still. The character on the screen is. Your eyes need to be completely focused, and I don't think that is doable with the person's controller moving around.

Clever idea, though. I like creativity. It leads to new things.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Creativity is one of the few things I have. That and determination. BTW many of the Ganon AT's not working out for me that well but I'll keep trying

 

[hyperstation]

Creativity is one of the few things I have. That and determination. BTW many of the Ganon AT's not working out for me that well but I'll keep trying

Keep on it, Hyde. We've got a long uphill climb before we're consistent with all this stuff.

 

[TP]

I was thinking about the application of chainchoking and how hard it will be to learn. The way I see it, if we approach this correctly, it won't be that bad. First of all, I see no reason to risk chainchoking with the people who are in red on my list. That leaves the yellow group. Of them, there is no real reason to learn chainchoking for MK, Sheik, Ice Climbers, or Yoshi in my opinion. Those are still matches that we are going to lose. I also don't think it is worth learning 3 different chainchokes just to have it on the infrequently used Pokemon Trainer. That just leaves eleven chainchokes to learn, which is not nearly as daunting a task as the original 39. The characters who I really think we should master this against are:

Bowser
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Kirby
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
R.O.B
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link

I want to hear your thoughts on this, guys.

 

[SaltyKracka]

I was thinking about the application of chainchoking and how hard it will be to learn. The way I see it, if we approach this correctly, it won't be that bad. First of all, I see no reason to risk chainchoking with the people who are in red on my list. That leaves the yellow group. Of them, there is no real reason to learn chainchoking for MK, Sheik, Ice Climbers, or Yoshi in my opinion. Those are still matches that we are going to lose. I also don't think it is worth learning 3 different chainchokes just to have it on the infrequently used Pokemon Trainer. That just leaves eleven chainchokes to learn, which is not nearly as daunting a task as the original 39. The characters who I really think we should master this against are:

Bowser
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Kirby
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
R.O.B
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link

I want to hear your thoughts on this, guys.

I'd say that adding Shiek and Yoshi in there would work fairly well, as well as MK, for one very simple reason. The thing that gives Yoshi and Shiek advantages against Ganondorf are infinites/chaingrabs->kill. Learning chainchoking for them would reduce the matchup numbers quite a bit, since the only thing Yoshi really has on us is the CG, making that matchup fairly even. For Shiek, it wouldn't be a total **** matchup anymore, mebbe about 7:3. As for MK, I believe that it would give us enough of an edge to bring it down below hard counter level, because if we can chainchoke MK, given his weight, we can easily KO with dtilt once we've got him on the ground and choked him a few times.

So, I think that the only possible one we should ignore is the ICs. Because either there's going to be both of them, and you lose, or there's going to be one and you'll win anyways.

 

[TP]

I'm glad that you are so confident in how powerful chainchoking is. For MK, Ftilt is a better finish than Dtilt, no question. Remember that we can chainchoke until he is near the edge.

 

[SaltyKracka]

I'm glad that you are so confident in how powerful chainchoking is. For MK, Ftilt is a better finish than Dtilt, no question. Remember that we can chainchoke until he is near the edge.

Ah, but while Ftilt might be a better finish (I'm not so sure), I've had dtilt kill MK's at about 90% before. It's ownage on them.

 

[:034:]

I was thinking about the application of chainchoking and how hard it will be to learn. The way I see it, if we approach this correctly, it won't be that bad. First of all, I see no reason to risk chainchoking with the people who are in red on my list. That leaves the yellow group. Of them, there is no real reason to learn chainchoking for MK, Sheik, Ice Climbers, or Yoshi in my opinion. Those are still matches that we are going to lose. I also don't think it is worth learning 3 different chainchokes just to have it on the infrequently used Pokemon Trainer. That just leaves eleven chainchokes to learn, which is not nearly as daunting a task as the original 39.

Well... Why NOT learn it for all the yellows except IC? The IC's are actually useless since they can interrupt you. However, why SHOULDN'T we learn it on the characters we would lose to easily?

Just think about that for a second.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Well... Why NOT learn it for all the yellows except IC? The IC's are actually useless since they can interrupt you. However, why SHOULDN'T we learn it on the characters we would lose to easily?

Just think about that for a second.

Bit late, dude.