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Smash Hero
I noticed that AFTER I posted it >:
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On MK, it depends what move is freshest. I believe iDA kills the earliest, and that's the move I use most often for K.O.s. on MK. Chances are you're either going to abuse Dtilt or iDA and keep the other one fresh.I'm glad that you are so confident in how powerful chainchoking is. For MK, Ftilt is a better finish than Dtilt, no question. Remember that we can chainchoke until he is near the edge.
Swoops is that kind of guy who only cares to post about real discoveries, not saying chainchoking isn't helpful, it just isn't 'that' big of a discovery as you consider it to be.In another matter, where the **** is Swoops? He's the only Ganon main who has yet to post in here (except Kosk, but he never posts in the meaningful threads) and I want to here his take on this.
Note that some chainchokes are easier than others. Yoshi's and R.O.B's are two of the easiest, if I am remembering that nightmarish afternoon of testing correctly. Has anyone really looked into the application of this yet?
You just won.Well Chain Choking would be refreshing the other moves we have. Thus, I think that it's fair to space the D_tilts. Also Luigi's almost won me a game against MK, it was his counterpick and the guy wasn't playing MK the first round.
I can get Chain Choke consistent up to 4 time on a player that I can tell is just scared.
For me I have left the impression on my friends that if I can keep you close you'll die so I think that the mentally chain choking isn't just a tech chase game but a MIND GAME
First off...Hyde, you're the man for pointing out the obvious to us about chain choking refreshing moves. This can't be underscored enough. I mean, lock someone up for 5 or so of these in a row and your stale iDA/dtilt can suddenly kill again. Freaking disgustingWell I just noticed something. Unless the person I'm playing has attack set up differently I'm almost able to listen and hear if they clicked the stick to roll or tapped the button to GUA.
I'm getting better at it but I get tricked if the person just stands up.
Also Atlas and I have a nasty trick in teams, can't wait for a vid to get up.
I Dont think that it will be a problem because you have to shield it anyways. she looks different when shes GUAing and when shes rolling so you can probably just shield both.I have a quick question on Samus. Samus seems to have two get-up attacks- one that's like our get-up attack and Falcon's get-up attack, and another one where she gets up and sweeps the floor, kind of. I don't know why Samus uses one attack over the other, but they're definately different. If you can powershield the first part of this "sweeping" get-up attack, you should be able to do another chain choke.
Just putting it out there.
Dude, just a suggestion:This is a lot easier than you guys are making it out to be. I usually get 3-4 or more especially if the other player isn't used to it. Even against the players that are said to be close to impossible. Like some people said earlier, it's more of a mind game than an AT.
Here's a video. It's a combo video but involves a lot of choke chasing. The stuff against Falco (starting around 1:20) is especially interesting to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56_Q2CG_reo
Yes, It does widely benefit Ganon, I haven't denied that. Basically cause those aspects which you mentioned (mental frustration, refreshes moves), were already where Ganon meta game was going, it just increases it to another level. But, there are still going to be some points during the match where you wouldn't need to chain choke your opponent, especially during percentages where you don't need to refresh your moves or frustrate your opponent any further.and Kalm,
I think you're being way too quick to write this off the way you've been doing. There are far more benefits to chainchoking than racking up damage. One is the obvious frustration your opponent will feel. It gives you a mental advantage. which is so huge in Brawl Secondly, as Hyde pointed out, it refreshes kill moves very quickly. it never matters if gerudo is fresh or staled to hell, and if it means getting your killing power of DTilt, DAir, and iDA back, I'm all over it.
QFT. It sounds like we're on the same page after all then, Kalm. As per usual. I think in a month or so once people are actually breaking out chainchoking with some frequency, we'll understand with more specificity when chain and when to just go for the kill, etc. Basically, we'll gain understanding of how to best apply this tactic to gameplay.Yes, It does widely benefit Ganon, I haven't denied that. Basically cause those aspects which you mentioned (mental frustration, refreshes moves), were already where Ganon meta game was going, it just increases it to another level. But, there are still going to be some points during the match where you wouldn't need to chain choke your opponent, especially during percentages where you don't need to refresh your moves or frustrate your opponent any further.
I like to chainchoke them til they hate me THEN stomp them, I find mixing up the follow up after the SideB, and then getting them back into a chainchoke makes most people almost to angry to playInstead of "chaining a choke" after someone get up attacks, I'd rather stomp, as Ganon is capable of doing so on some characters, and it sums up damage a lot faster and easier.
This is making the assumption of ideal conditions. I will (almost) agree with you if we're going to take for granted that you will ALWAYS land the next choke. In reality, I think there is too much margin of error (this may change over time), and sometimes a DTilt, iDA, DAir, or FTilt for the kill would be better.Um....I'd have to say that there is never a time when you should not be trying to chokechain someone, unless they are already at kill percentages and you have to correct timing and spacing to kill them. Otherwise, chokechaining is ALWAYS the best way to go, as it lets you do damage and refresh kill moves without ever being in danger.
Or, we just wait for them to act. Seriously, if they try to stall, it's not doing anything for them. That and we can just stomp them out of it.Hey guys. This sounds awesome.. but I have a few questions. I haven't read the last 6 pages, so I might just be repeating the already mentioned, but here they are:
This is unlike TECH chasing, where you are actually predicting your opponent's roll/get up attack. Instead, you are waiting for them to act and then using Brawl's slow gameplay pace to actually observe the starting animation of whatever move they've chosen to do, and reacting accordingly, in this case with another side B. Is this correct?
And if it is, what's to stop them from just lying there? Instead of the mental frustration bonus and what I've heard is a possible 50% + damage combo, all the ganon player gets is a free down tilt.
If you press nothing, your guy gets up after about 5 or 10 seconds. You can't lie there forever. I THINK that we can choke every regular getup animation. It is possible that some of them are too fast, but that is a ***** to test and I'm not going to waste my time over it.Hey guys. This sounds awesome.. but I have a few questions. I haven't read the last 6 pages, so I might just be repeating the already mentioned, but here they are:
This is unlike TECH chasing, where you are actually predicting your opponent's roll/get up attack. Instead, you are waiting for them to act and then using Brawl's slow gameplay pace to actually observe the starting animation of whatever move they've chosen to do, and reacting accordingly, in this case with another side B. Is this correct?
And if it is, what's to stop them from just lying there? Instead of the mental frustration bonus and what I've heard is a possible 50% + damage combo, all the ganon player gets is a free down tilt and a reset of the situation in which he has to attempt to get another Flame Choke, which is not particularly difficult to avoid. By simply refusing to play the game, the victim can reduce the damage he recieves by a potentially high amount.
The thing about chainchoking is that we DON'T want them to get to the ledge. That ends the chain. So if they keep trying to keep away from the ledge, all the better for us.What about mixing Chainchoking and air-grab-releases?
Grab release -> Gerudo -> Grab/dashgrab OoS -> Grab release, and so on..
Could be useful for getting them closer to the ledge.
But I dunno, better not messing with the pureness of chainchoking I guess..
No, it isn't nice research. I have stated at several points that my research is flawed because I suck at testing stuff. I have also suggested looking into DI more, but I'm just not the guy to do it. I wish I could do it all alone, but time constraints and skill constraints make it much harder for me to test than it should be.Words
You're all wrong. Listen. Relative to other techs which had mad prevalence throughout Melee, this just is not that hard. Granted, yes, I suck at it right now too, but if Smash has taught us anything it's this:
No matter how hard, if you find a tech for your character which could potentially reverse or even BREAK match-ups, you just. f*cking. learn. it. No johns, you just do it, like Nike.Swoosh.Swoops.
Look, I was talking to MOM on the phone last night (he's up at our apt in Brooklyn), and I told him about chainchoking and he was like "why the f*ck aren't you spending all day and all night learning this so that you can become the premier Ganon in the world?" He's got a point. Research has told us this CAN be done. Harder, more intensive sh*t has been memorized. We're just being lazy if we don't get this sh*t so together that it's second nature, IMO.
When all you haters are still farting around in 2008, DAD's gonna be FoGing like flubber and Chainchoking MK to hell and back.
Where's that Lazenganon pic?You're all wrong. Listen. Relative to other techs which had mad prevalence throughout Melee, this just is not that hard. Granted, yes, I suck at it right now too, but if Smash has taught us anything it's this:
No matter how hard, if you find a tech for your character which could potentially reverse or even BREAK match-ups, you just. f*cking. learn. it. No johns, you just do it, like Nike.Swoosh.Swoops.
Look, I was talking to MOM on the phone last night (he's up at our apt in Brooklyn), and I told him about chainchoking and he was like "why the f*ck aren't you spending all day and all night learning this so that you can become the premier Ganon in the world?" He's got a point. Research has told us this CAN be done. Harder, more intensive sh*t has been memorized. We're just being lazy if we don't get this sh*t so together that it's second nature, IMO.
When all you haters are still farting around in 2008, DAD's gonna be FoGing like flubber and Chainchoking MK to hell and back.
I admire the passion DAD, but I'm a optimist when it comes to match ups and a pessimist when it comes to any new tech that comes out.You're all wrong. Listen. Relative to other techs which had mad prevalence throughout Melee, this just is not that hard. Granted, yes, I suck at it right now too, but if Smash has taught us anything it's this:
No matter how hard, if you find a tech for your character which could potentially reverse or even BREAK match-ups, you just. f*cking. learn. it. No johns, you just do it, like Nike.Swoosh.Swoops.
Look, I was talking to MOM on the phone last night (he's up at our apt in Brooklyn), and I told him about chainchoking and he was like "why the f*ck aren't you spending all day and all night learning this so that you can become the premier Ganon in the world?" He's got a point. Research has told us this CAN be done. Harder, more intensive sh*t has been memorized. We're just being lazy if we don't get this sh*t so together that it's second nature, IMO.
When all you haters are still farting around in 2008, DAD's gonna be FoGing like flubber and Chainchoking MK to hell and back.
Where's that Lazenganon pic?
Apparently D1 loves Ganon, and he's one of the top players in NYC and Atlantic North. Maybe I can convince him to start getting down with the King of Evil more often. He posted in my DSL thread with enthusiasm, so I'm sure he's lurking around here.M2K is too much of a tierwhore, though.