Chain Grabbing MK *UPDATED! SEE 1st POST*

[_Kadaj_]

You have Dancing Blade, Tipper F-Smash, GR to allow a follow up afterwards. I'd say you have a pretty good set of options afterwards.

Also Pierce while that maybe true you have to understand that the percent your getting is from something that is avoidable, what do you do when someone is smart enough to just hold down after you forward throw? As soon as you nair they will be grounded after the first hit (whilst you still being in the air doing the second hit) and they can then hit you before the nair animation is over.

I mean hey it's your guys choice to learn it or not though.

EDIT, Now you only dealt roughly 6% and got hit because the opponent knew how to DI

 

[Remzi]

Wow guys. I've been lazy and haven't learned the timing for this as well, but it is 100% ridiculous to say that you're better off working fthrow > nair gimmicks. Especially when MK can easily SDI out of the first hit of nair and punish you before you even get out of the animation. 32% guaranteed against MK is a beautiful thing.

Anyone saying the opposite just doesn't want to take the time to learn this and is making excuses for themselves.

 

[Pierce7d]

I occassionally use the CG (I frequently explore 0% options against MK) and have used it many times before.

3 Dthrows to Fthrow - Fsmash is mad legit.

I like to mix it up though, and I've found that in practice, Nair leads to way more average profit.

Like I said, I'm not trying to disregard this technique in any way. When people start SDIing the Nair, I'm glad to have other options, but for now, I'd rather Nair MK. Fthrow - Nair - Jab -Fthrow - Fsmash can be DIed, but I land it more often than not, so I use it.

 

[_Kadaj_]

VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!
see 1st post

 

[BacklashMarth]

Are you serious?
If so... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZwQOQT9ZYQ

 

[_Kadaj_]

VERY SERIOUS lol

 

[stingers]

can you get anything out of it after all of those throws though?

 

[Player-3]

db or gr fair/spike/upb/DA

 

[Pierce7d]

That's better than Nair

 

[_Kadaj_]

Dancing Blade or Re-Grab for a Grab Release follow up.

I thought I put it in the first post?!? Let me dbl check

LMAO pierce I bet it is

 

[stingers]

10 dthrows + db is like what? 50%?

basically falcos CG =] less follow ups but...still thats ****

 

[Albert.]

It's 51 percent

10 Dthrows > regrab> Two pummels > air release > Dancing blade

+/- 5% considering my DB spacing might not have been all tippers and you might get more pummels in


I want to see all the Pro Marth's doing this to every MK they play

Make being on the ground @ zero vs Marth just as scary as it is vs Falco !!

 

[MacNCheese.]

Love this. D3's turn!

How much damage would dthrowx10 to fsmash be?or DS

 

[Remzi]

Absolutely no more excuses not to learn this.

I'm going to break down the frame data and find out the lenience for this right now.

And I'll post a video.

It is a GOOD day for Marths, folks.

 

[MacNCheese.]

i already learned it :3
Just finished. WOOOOHOOOO!

@BRZ; Frame data would be very nice. Another question, would this work on any other character that around the same weight as MK?

 

[Enzo]

Good ****ing **** kadaj
this is pretty much matchup changing

 

[MacNCheese.]

hehe long time no see BLM XD

 

[stingers]

important: at what percent will a fresh dthrow no longer work to start this?

 

[Remzi]

The results are in, bad news guys.

Only the first one is actually guaranteed. The second can be spotdodged pretty easily. If MK had three more frames of lag we could get the second grab in. I still say he can spot dodge it easily because he can just buffer the spotdodge any time before he lands.

Also, there is no difference at ALL between Marth's dash grab and Marth's boost grab. So getting a regrab after the first throw is possible with marths standard dash grab. That said, you have to be almost frame perfect (dash any frame 33-35 of the dthrow, a 3/60s of a second long window).

I checked to see if Marth could get a guaranteed Fsmash off of the second dthrow but MK can power shield it. Fthrow fsmash won't work either.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, fellas :/


*EDIT: And a bit of good news to go along with this.

Fthrow > regrab at 0% IS guaranteed. This means that Marth can get a fthrow>fthrow>tipper fsmash for 27%. Thats not quite as good, but it helps

To get the regrab after the fthrow, you CAN'T grab too early, because MK will be too high. You can start buffering anything on frame 24 of the fthrow, so you have a lot of room to mess up as MK can't airdodge until frame 47 i think.

You have to either dash a little bit late or just delay the grab a bit if you dashed frame perfect.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Are you sure? I've tested this with numerous people and buffering a spot dodge didn't work at all for them.

I've even had other players do the cg without having MK be able to escape (Leon and Halzy just to name a few)

I've even had someone constantly buffer spotdodge and the only time it would work is when I messed up, maybe your doing something wrong

 

[Remzi]

In retrospect, theres one thing I didn't try, thought I doubt this would be the solution.

How late into the dash do you attempt to grab, Kadaj?

In all my trials (there were many), I started the dash grab in either frames 1,2,3, or 4 of the dash. Do you grab later than that, maybe?

Like I said, I doubt thats gonna be it, but I'd really love for you to be right on this so I'm just gonna throw things out there.

 

[_Kadaj_]

I wait a bit and re-grab right before they touch the ground, if you try to grab asap then it doesn't work.

I'd also advise DAC Grabbing because I can NEVER re-grab doing a normal dash grab.
(btw there is a slight difference between normal/DAC grabbing)

 

[Remzi]

I wait a bit and re-grab right before they touch the ground, if you try to grab asap then it doesn't work.

I'd also advise DAC Grabbing because I can NEVER re-grab doing a normal dash grab.
(btw there is a slight difference between normal/DAC grabbing)

Maybe thats it, I'll give it a try later.

As for DAC grabbing, the only difference is that it delays the grab by 1 or 2 frames depending on how late you cancel it. So it has the same effect as just waiting one/two frames and then doing a dash grab. So you're probably just grabbing early when you don't DAC grab.

 

[xxmoosexx]

I really hope that this works. Alot.

This makes me feel all giddy inside.

 

[_Kadaj_]

I'm positive that it works

 

[xxmoosexx]

Well, from the sound of it...sounds like it wouldn't matter if it isn't because it seems so hard to escape.

 

[Omni]

I'll test this at my Hyberbolic Time Chamber training session tonight and then upload a video as well.

Which characters do you guys want me to try this on again? MK, Fox, Falco, Pikachu, Squirtle?

 

[Player-3]

we don't need any more grab sheninagns on squirtle... XD

 

[stingers]

marth mains that cg spike squirtle are the scum of the earth

 

[Player-3]

i don't cg spike
i cg tipper fsmash

 

[stingers]

oh thats not a big deal =]

 

[Mr-R]

I want vids kadaj VIDSSS

 

[Player-3]

stingers it kills are like 50 at the ledge lol

i usually don't even land grabs on good pts i just wall with fairs because i'm so ****ing scared of squirtles juggling nonsense

 

[stingers]

good pts? lol we know u mean reflex

and pivot grab that *** ******

 

[Omni]

I want vids kadaj VIDSSS

i'll make one tonight

chillax

just so i get this straight tho. what kind of grab is DAC? i was guessing it was just a turn around boost grab. is that the same thing

 

[Player-3]

good pts? lol we know u mean reflex

and pivot grab that *** ******

nty man i'll stay with camping with my sword

 

[Albert.]

correct me if I'm wrong but can't Marth Dash to regrab following an air release?

this could potentially zero-death... if you get enough pummels and grab release across the stage, grab release to spike....

idunno am I being too hopeful ?

 

[_Kadaj_]

Ok If I can send someone a replay over AIM would they be able to upload it for me?

I tried to do it the other night but for some reason the replay wouldn't play back, so now I'll hav to do a new one once I get home

Omni the ones on pika, fox, falco, wolf, squirtle are already known to work 100% of the time, The one that Bengals is trying to debate is the DAC CG on Mk. I'm able to do it 90% of the time when I don't mess up so I know that it works, he may just be performing the actions wrong.

I''ve even had other top players try and test it out with working results

EDIT- Yes Albert that works, that's what I do lol

Omni DAC grabbing is the same as Melee, Dash Attack Cancel Grabs. Not really boost/reverse grabbing on the other side of them

 

[Omni]

send it to my email address, kadaj. stephenjsilver@gmail.com

can you explain how to DAC

 

[Enzo]

w8 u have a replay. so cant' u upload it urself

**** if marth gets a potential 0-death....on Mk............


JUMPIN ON DAT BANDWAGON