CASUAL ELITISTS vs COMPETITIVE ELITISTS!!!!

[MookieRah]

I think it's mainly due in part that they get attacked so much

That's pretty much how it began in a nutshell, but I feel like making a big post so I'll go into detail.

Before the Brawl announcement, this was mostly the hang out of purely the competitive scene. There were casual players hanging around, but they didn't stick around in the melee sections. Everyone, for the most part, held pretty much the same opinions (play to win, tournament rules, advance techniques being freaking sweet, etc). Whenever someone showed up who was unaware of the new stuff we would be courteous and point them to threads that talked about tournament play and what not (well, for the most part at least). At that point they either became competitive or hung out in the other sections of the site, cause they discovered that most of the site was just discussion of the tournament scene which didn't interest them. Only once in a blue moon did we have a rabblerouser that got on a soap box and professed about how we played the game wrong, and usually they were trolls.

Then the famous Brawl video was released. All the sudden there is a huge influx of people to the site that weren't competitive. A large portion of the influx were of the younger crowd, and soon began to make claims about what is or isn't the game. At first, it wasn't so bad and was mostly ignored, but eventually it began to wear on peoples' nerves. Inevitably competitive players would explode on someone being completely ignorant (A LOT of times just downright offensive) and they would claim the only reason they were jumped on is cause they were a casual player.

More and more people show up, and after the initial wave of kids we started to see a decently large population of casual players who were mature, but seeing how the situation had gotten by then there was quite a lot of tension on both sides. The new people coming in were almost indoctrinated to one side or the other, and once that set in they were under a veil that the opposing side was either elitists or ignorant.

The stereotypes mounted, and soon it expanded from the smashboards, and became popular to make fun of competitive players on other sites such as 4chan and Encyclopedia Dramatica. So it was quite infuriating for the competitive player to be labeled as "playing fox dittos on FD with no items and being gay."

The silver lining though, is that it seems to not be as bad as it used to be. Most of the casual people here are considerably more mature and don't bash the competitive players for being different. The same goes for the competitive end. Over time it'll all settle down, cause each side is learning more about the other and once there is a mutual understanding the only ruckus will come from the idiots.

In closing, I blame idiots and kis (not saying all kids are immature, I've been VERY surprised by a handful of the young peepz on the site).

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Pro basketball players cheat. They can slam dunk while I can't.

 

[The Hypnotist]

That's pretty much how it began in a nutshell, but I feel like making a big post so I'll go into detail.

Before the Brawl announcement, this was mostly the hang out of purely the competitive scene. There were casual players hanging around, but they didn't stick around in the melee sections. Everyone, for the most part, held pretty much the same opinions (play to win, tournament rules, advance techniques being freaking sweet, etc). Whenever someone showed up who was unaware of the new stuff we would be courteous and point them to threads that talked about tournament play and what not (well, for the most part at least). At that point they either became competitive or hung out in the other sections of the site, cause they discovered that most of the site was just discussion of the tournament scene which didn't interest them. Only once in a blue moon did we have a rabblerouser that got on a soap box and professed about how we played the game wrong, and usually they were trolls.

Then the famous Brawl video was released. All the sudden there is a huge influx of people to the site that weren't competitive. A large portion of the influx were of the younger crowd, and soon began to make claims about what is or isn't the game. At first, it wasn't so bad and was mostly ignored, but eventually it began to wear on peoples' nerves. Inevitably competitive players would explode on someone being completely ignorant (A LOT of times just downright offensive) and they would claim the only reason they were jumped on is cause they were a casual player.

More and more people show up, and after the initial wave of kids we started to see a decently large population of casual players who were mature, but seeing how the situation had gotten by then there was quite a lot of tension on both sides. The new people coming in were almost indoctrinated to one side or the other, and once that set in they were under a veil that the opposing side was either elitists or ignorant.

The stereotypes mounted, and soon it expanded from the smashboards, and became popular to make fun of competitive players on other sites such as 4chan and Encyclopedia Dramatica. So it was quite infuriating for the competitive player to be labeled as "playing fox dittos on FD with no items and being gay."

The silver lining though, is that it seems to not be as bad as it used to be. Most of the casual people here are considerably more mature and don't bash the competitive players for being different. The same goes for the competitive end. Over time it'll all settle down, cause each side is learning more about the other and once there is a mutual understanding the only ruckus will come from the idiots.

In closing, I blame idiots and kis (not saying all kids are immature, I've been VERY surprised by a handful of the young peepz on the site).

QFT

10 chars

 

[error_alt_delete]

Pro basketball players cheat. They can slam dunk while I can't.

wave dashing isnt in the same sense as dunking but I get what your saying. but you have to admit, brawl is a little more fredily to the casual players with the removal of it. I now alot of...people will look for things such as this but are skills such as wavedashing what make people cometitive? if so than that isnt the same cometitive definition I learned. I think competitive people are those who play to win wether they have wave dashing or not. if you spend alot of time looking for some way to break the game, then I cant call you competitive. I will aknolge you as competitive if you play to win, with or without the wave or whatever. but if you spend the time to find a way to break it, then you are looking for something to make up for the skills you dont have.

 

[True Fool]

Pro basketball players cheat. They can slam dunk while I can't.

No dunking, and no between the legs trick, they're glicthes. And you're alowed to recieve help from outside friends, it's how the game is meant to be played.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

wave dashing isnt in the same sense as dunking but I get what your saying. but you have to admit, brawl is a little more fredily to the casual players with the removal of it. I now alot of...people will look for things such as this but are skills such as wavedashing what make people cometitive? if so than that isnt the same cometitive definition I learned. I think competitive people are those who play to win wether they have wave dashing or not. if you spend alot of time looking for some way to break the game, then I cant call you competitive. I will aknolge you as competitive if you play to win, with or without the wave or whatever. but if you spend the time to find a way to break it, then you are looking for something to make up for the skills you dont have.

And what are you referring to as "breaking"? I hope you are not referring to wavedashing. Wavedashing is in no way a glitch.

You need to reanalyze your definition of "playing to win". Playing to win means you will adapt your style to remedy any issues that cause you to lose. If you win just fine without using wavedashing, fine. If not, then you are no longer playing to win but playing to win according to your own mental set of rules.

 

[FightingGameGuy]

I will aknolge you as competitive if you play to win, with or without the wave or whatever. but if you spend the time to find a way to break it, then you are looking for something to make up for the skills you dont have.

Not true at all; the two are not mutually exclusive. There is no reason to assume that people who are looking for new techniques "are looking for something to make up for the skills [they] don't have." Many people looking for such techniques are simply seeking to supplement the skills they do with even more skills or advantages. The more and the stronger the advantages and skills a player has, the more he is likely to win.

In Tennis, people used to hit forehands with a "continental" grip (holding the racket perpendicular to the ground) for many years. Now all professionals use the new 'western" grip because although it is more difficult -- requiring the player to hold the racket like a pancake pan, totally parallel to the ground and to rely on turning his wrist to make it perpendicular to ground when making contact -- it is utterly superior due to how it can allow the player to roll over the ball as he makes contact, adding more spin to the ball. Were the first pros who dared to use the "western" grip making up for their lack of skill in other areas? Not at all, they were simply doing everything they could to secure any advantage possible.

In the same way people who seek to find as many advanced techniques in Brawl are not necessarily trying to make up for shortcomings. Just like the tennis players in my example, they are simply trying to secure as many advantages as possible, in order to best secure victory.

The last line of your argument betrays the faulty logic reasoning which causes so many competitive players to hate the ignorant scrub-casuals (a subset of casuals - not all of them): the inaccurate notion that without these techniques these scrub-casuals would be superior to the competitive players, because the competitive players somehow are using these techniques to make up for an imaginary lack of skill.

One of the great things about competition is that it isn't stagnant. People are always trying to further the current level by coming up with new strategies, techniques, or tricks in their efforts to better themselves. People will do so again in Brawl just like as they did in Melee, and whether or not they find new advanced techniques as incredibly important to the metagame as wavedashing was to brawl, they will find many other ways to give themselves advantages. Competitors play to win, but before they do that they practice, train, and experiment to win as well.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Not true at all; the two are not mutually exclusive. There is no reason to assume that people who are looking for new techniques "are looking for something to make up for the skills [they] don't have." Many people looking for such techniques are simply seeking to supplement the skills they do with even more skills or advantages. The more and the stronger the advantages and skills a player has, the more he is likely to win.

In Tennis, people used to hit forehands with a "continental" grip (holding the racket perpendicular to the ground) for many years. Now all professionals use the new 'western" grip because although it is more difficult -- requiring the player to hold the racket like a pancake pan, totally parallel to the ground and to rely on turning his wrist to make it perpendicular to ground when making contact -- it is utterly superior due to how it can allow the player to roll over the ball as he makes contact, adding more spin to the ball. Were the first pros who dared to use the "western" grip making up for their lack of skill in other areas? Not at all, they were simply doing everything they could to secure any advantage possible.

In the same way people who seek to find as many advanced techniques in Brawl are not necessarily trying to make up for shortcomings. Just like the tennis players in my example, they are simply trying to secure as many advantages as possible, in order to best secure victory.

The last line of your argument betrays the faulty logic reasoning which causes so many competitive players to hate the ignorant scrub-casuals (a subset of casuals - not all of them): the inaccurate notion that without these techniques these scrub-casuals would be superior to the competitive players, because the competitive players somehow are using these techniques to make up for an imaginary lack of skill.

One of the great things about competition is that it isn't stagnant. People are always trying to further the current level by coming up with new strategies, techniques, or tricks in their efforts to better themselves. People will do so again in Brawl just like as they did in Melee, and whether or not they find new advanced techniques as incredibly important to the metagame as wavedashing was to brawl, they will find many other ways to give themselves advantages. Competitors play to win, but before they do that they practice, train, and experiment to win as well.

QFT.

Yet another excellent post in this thread. I had made a similar point in a wavedashing thread a long time ago (and in a galaxy far, far away).

Knowledge is power. The primary reason why the average Joe Blow casual (not meant as a pejorative statement, but merely as an example) would lose against Mr. Fancy Pants "pro" (a term used very loosely) is because their knowledge of the game is just that comprehensive. Prodigies like Super Doodle Man, Phanna, and Mew2King have dissected this game down to the number. They know the frame data, the timing, and the hitboxes; every little nuance that you can imagine. And they can apply it, as well. Your average casual doesn't go that deep. They usually have rudimentary knowledge of the basics. They know that jab A is quick and effective for situation X and that recovery A gives them alot of airtime.

But that's okay. I'm not trying to insinuate a war here; I'm just calling this as it is. I have nothing against casual players that just wanna unwind and throw items at each other all day.

Smooth Criminal

 

[MookieRah]

First of all, before I say anything else. It doesn't how you describe wavedashing. You can call it a physics exploit, unintended game mechanics, or even a glitch, it doesn't actually change what it is. No amount of calling it a glitch will take away it's validity in tournament play. If it's in the game and it's been proven not to break it, then we will use it to secure victory.

Now to what I wanted to post. One of the biggest criticisms I get from people is the "wavedash is gay, without it you guys aren't so great." It's not THAT good people. It's also not that hard to learn either. It's fun, and I love it to death, but there are far more important techniques that are being used when we play. The only reason you pick out wavedashing is cause it's obvious. If you looked further you would see us doing crazier things, like pivoting, thunders combos, etc that are more qualified to cry glitch at.. If wavedashing was never in Melee, then things wouldn't have been that different. Fox and Falco wouldn't be as high though, no waveshining, but there are probably alternatives to wavedashing (while not nearly as good) that would have then been the staple to their play.

The casual scene needs to learn to accept that underneath the advanced techniques, the competitive player is still better than them. Think about it, we go to tournaments across the US (hell, sometimes to other countries)... why would you think you would beat someone that experienced? Heck, if you were truly casual players, why does it bother you that there are people vastly better than you at this game? A lot of people really need to question if they are truly a casual player, or a competitive player that is simply too stubborn to learn all the new stuff and be humbled again (I see this a lot). When you get right down to it, are you really mad that we use these things, or are you mad that in order to keep up that you would have to put in a lot of effort?

I've met SOOOO many people that simply wanted to be good without the effort, and after trying for a day to do some of the advanced stuff they simply resorted to criticizing playing that way and then making snub remarks that they could beat me if I didn't use said techniques. A scrub once told that to my face after I 4 stocked him with Captain Falcon using ONLY shffl'ed knees (and I only did that cause he was being a cocky ******* in the first place).

 

[AlphaZealot]

Actually I ran into this at a party over the weekend. There were about 20 or 30 people and we were crammed into an apartment playing beer pong and some card games. Eventually someone brought up playing Smash so we hooked up the Wii and did a 1v1. Most of the people realized I was far and away better than them, a few used johns about being drunk, but I was under the same stress as them. There was one guy who stuck out in my head though, he saw me using thing like wavedashing and claimed he could keep up if I didn't use them. I told him I would still beat him without them and if he wanted I would play him with one hand. To this he responded simply "well what makes it worse is that your a cocky *** about it".

The closest someone came to beating me was my girlfriends Peach against my Bowser.

I was very happy though, I was in a room with a whole bunch of people who have never been to Smashboards yet just about all of them knew about wavedashing. The competitive community and its influence is much deeper than I once thought.

 

[MookieRah]

The concept of a drunken n00b scares me...

 

[Foxtorres]

Hey guys, im a competative player here in kansas city, I rarely post on these boards, I mainly read... anywho, I am in the area with Darkrain and their meetup group. I have attended tourny's... ive been playing smash since 64, competative playing started oh, lets say a year and a half or more... Ive been trying to catch up on this topic here at work and ive read quite a large majority of what has to be said...

Anywho, before I was well as everyone calls it 'competative' I really didnt know any of the advanced moves, but I was still very competative and played my hardest and practiced everyday against my roomie... I learned of the boards and thats where I learned about Darkrains Smash group that meets up here, they are all kickass nice awesome people, I got my A$$ handed to me nonstop the first time I went.. I didnt *****, I was actually excited about all the new things I was going to learn. I am a very very good player, and so is my roomate who mains Ness, hell he stands a good chance with Ness against Darkrain too...

Getting down to the point... I have a friend here named RII who has been smashing with us since I first knew, he mains sheik but also plays peach, pikachu, samus, dr. mario... we all have a wide range of characters we use as any normal competative player would... heres the kicker... RII stands a good chance against me and my roomie and he doesnt even wavedash... thats right... 'a competative player who DOESNT use wavedash?!'... I guess what im trying to say is, wavedash is great, but NOT needed at all... he kind of breaks the 'competative' and 'casual' barrier I would say when it comes to technical skills, tho he does tech, thats pretty simple to get down...

I dunno, I have tons of respect for people who dont use wavedash because of him, and im telling you guys just to hang in tight, Brawl is just gunna pwn ...

~Fox Torres

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Basically, the excuses all add up to this: "I would've won if I hadn't lost. I can win when I don't lose. I will beat you if you don't beat me."

 

[SiD]

Basically, the excuses all add up to this: "I would've won if I hadn't lost. I can win when I don't lose. I will beat you if you don't beat me."

I told you to stop misquoting me!

 

[ELI-mination]

Hey guys, im a competative player here in kansas city, I rarely post on these boards, I mainly read... anywho, I am in the area with Darkrain and their meetup group. I have attended tourny's... ive been playing smash since 64, competative playing started oh, lets say a year and a half or more... Ive been trying to catch up on this topic here at work and ive read quite a large majority of what has to be said...

Anywho, before I was well as everyone calls it 'competative' I really didnt know any of the advanced moves, but I was still very competative and played my hardest and practiced everyday against my roomie... I learned of the boards and thats where I learned about Darkrains Smash group that meets up here, they are all kickass nice awesome people, I got my A$$ handed to me nonstop the first time I went.. I didnt *****, I was actually excited about all the new things I was going to learn. I am a very very good player, and so is my roomate who mains Ness, hell he stands a good chance with Ness against Darkrain too...

Getting down to the point... I have a friend here named RII who has been smashing with us since I first knew, he mains sheik but also plays peach, pikachu, samus, dr. mario... we all have a wide range of characters we use as any normal competative player would... heres the kicker... RII stands a good chance against me and my roomie and he doesnt even wavedash... thats right... 'a competative player who DOESNT use wavedash?!'... I guess what im trying to say is, wavedash is great, but NOT needed at all... he kind of breaks the 'competative' and 'casual' barrier I would say when it comes to technical skills, tho he does tech, thats pretty simple to get down...

I dunno, I have tons of respect for people who dont use wavedash because of him, and im telling you guys just to hang in tight, Brawl is just gunna pwn ...

~Fox Torres

.....Ummmmm why doesn't your friend wavedash exactly? It's not about what's necessary really. It's more like it can be used to his advantage. Incorporating can only help.

Also wavedashing is not that big of a deal. Well I don't know why it would be. Why is wavedashing what seperates 'competitive' from 'casual' ? There's a lot more to the game other than wavedashing that STILL seperates 'competitive' from 'casual' so I disagree that your friend is breaking any barriers there.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I told you to stop misquoting me!

..........

 

[SiD]

..........

(It was a joke)

 

[MookieRah]

so I disagree that your friend is breaking any barriers there.

I agree. Not doing it for the sake of not doing it, or to uphold some kind of "honor code" in the realm of competitive play will only hold you back. Wavedashing isn't the be all end all, but in no way could it hurt if it was truly incorporated into his play.

 

[Darkurai]

My problem with the competitive half of the gaming spectrum is not the competitive community as a whole, but the ones who claim that those who are not of them automatically suck.
AlphaZealot.
Admittadly, I'm not as good as the majority of the competitive community. The only AT I can do well is wavedashing, and I don't doubt the fact there's many I haven't heard of.
And I know that statistically, 50% of us must be the "better half", and half of us must be the "worse half". But the competitive community is not even a half. IIRC, AZ himself said that the competitive community is only about 10% of all the Smashers. You can't say that the "scrubs" as you call us all suck without question. I can't remember the names of any pros right now, so bare with me here.
In this example:
Jimmy is a pro.
Johnny is a competitive player.
Joey is a casual player.

One day, Joey decides to enter a tournament just for the fun of it. In the tournament, Joey faces Johnny and gets his *** kicked.
Would this make you say Joey sucks? For AZ, it probably would.
Then Johnny enters another tournament and plays Jimmy. Johnny gets his *** kicked. Would you say Johnny sucks?
No. But why not? Some (AZ) would say Joey sucks, when the same thing that happened to him happened to Johnny.

What I'm saying is, while I couldn't beat a pro even if the pro was playing with 75% of his normal effort, but that doesn't mean I suck. To say I do suck, especially when you've never seen me play, is simply being overprotective of your "dominance".



And before anyone asks, no, I will never get over the topic AZ made.



JESUS CHRIST THAT TOOK FOREVER TO TYPE ON THE WII BROWSER.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

My problem with the competitive half of the gaming spectrum is not the competitive community as a whole, but the ones who claim that those who are not of them automatically suck.
AlphaZealot.
Admittadly, I'm not as good as the majority of the competitive community. The only AT I can do well is wavedashing, and I don't doubt the fact there's many I haven't heard of.
And I know that statistically, 50% of us must be the "better half", and half of us must be the "worse half". But the competitive community is not even a half. IIRC, AZ himself said that the competitive community is only about 10% of all the Smashers. You can't say that the "scrubs" as you call us all suck without question. I can't remember the names of any pros right now, so bare with me here.
In this example:
Jimmy is a pro.
Johnny is a competitive player.
Joey is a casual player.

One day, Joey decides to enter a tournament just for the fun of it. In the tournament, Joey faces Johnny and gets his *** kicked.
Would this make you say Joey sucks? For AZ, it probably would.
Then Johnny enters another tournament and plays Jimmy. Johnny gets his *** kicked. Would you say Johnny sucks?
No. But why not? Some (AZ) would say Joey sucks, when the same thing that happened to him happened to Johnny.

What I'm saying is, while I couldn't beat a pro even if the pro was playing with 75% of his normal effort, but that doesn't mean I suck. To say I do suck, especially when you've never seen me play, is simply being overprotective of your "dominance".



And before anyone asks, no, I will never get over the topic AZ made.



JESUS CHRIST THAT TOOK FOREVER TO TYPE ON THE WII BROWSER.

The problem here is that the competitive players are using too harsh of a term: "suck". However, casual players struggle in accepting the truth no matter how harsh the terminology. The fact remains that tournament-goers will 99.99% of the time defeat a casual smasher. This is not a blind insult or cruel comment. It is a FACT. It is not a made-up fact, either. Most of us have real experiences of traveling around and wiping the floor with town heroes (players who think they are amazing; they probably defeat most locals, but they have no comprehension of the real world of smash). If you are a casual smasher, you should not care that you suck. You play for fun, right? Oh, but "suck" is a mean word, so casuals must fight back!

As harsh as it sounds, yes, casual players suck at the game. Don't take offense to it. Just accept it.

 

[Tyeforce]

I like competitive play, but 4 stock no items Final Destination matches get really boring. Where's the Party Ball Bob-omb surprise? Where's the Poké Ball pummeling? Where's the pause-the-game-at-funny-times? Where's the Temple-size fun?! Competition doesn't always have to be so dull. What's so wrong with throwing a little chance in? It makes everything more fun!

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I like competitive play, but 4 stock no items Final Destination matches get really boring. Where's the Party Ball Bob-omb surprise? Where's the Poké Ball pummeling? Where's the pause-the-game-at-funny-times? Where's the Temple-size fun?! Competition doesn't always have to be so dull. What's so wrong with throwing a little chance in? It makes everything more fun!

There is nothing wrong with playing with all the "banned" stuff. It just doesn't hold up in competitive settings where money is on the line. That's all.

 

[Takeshi245]

I like competitive play, but 4 stock no items Final Destination matches get really boring. Where's the Party Ball Bob-omb surprise? Where's the Poké Ball pummeling? Where's the pause-the-game-at-funny-times? Where's the Temple-size fun?! Competition doesn't always have to be so dull. What's so wrong with throwing a little chance in? It makes everything more fun!

That's YOUR definition of fun. That 4 stock no items Final Destination garbage isn't true. We play the 13 other legal stages. Items are banned in tournaments because crates and barrels explode at random.

 

[NES n00b]

I like competitive play, but 4 stock no items Final Destination matches get really boring. Where's the Party Ball Bob-omb surprise? Where's the Poké Ball pummeling? Where's the pause-the-game-at-funny-times? Where's the Temple-size fun?! Competition doesn't always have to be so dull. What's so wrong with throwing a little chance in? It makes everything more fun!

For one thing, don't use such a streotype that we play only on Final D as there are many tourney legal stages. We even don't play 4 stock all the time one on one or two on two if we are playing friendlies.

Two, the things listed there can be done in friendlies, but we like facing off without those things. Doesn't mean we don't do that once in a while.

Three, chance is the opposite of competitive. You don't want luck in something that is either to prove or improve skill.

Last, you probably aren't competitive. <_<

 

[SiD]

I like competitive play, but 4 stock no items Final Destination matches get really boring. Where's the Party Ball Bob-omb surprise? Where's the Poké Ball pummeling? Where's the pause-the-game-at-funny-times? Where's the Temple-size fun?! Competition doesn't always have to be so dull. What's so wrong with throwing a little chance in? It makes everything more fun!

See, this mentality annoys me. First off, obviously competitive players don't only play on FD. But second, while playing for fun at a smashfest as in not a tournament, we do have fun. We go to Hyrule temple occasionally. We pause the game and add our own commentary and laugh. We do Bowser VS DK on Fourside. We do all Pichu FFA's. And yes, we even sometimes do item matches. And yes, we Wave dash and L cancel the whole time.


EDIT: Jesus ****ing christ guys, lol. We all posted at the same time.

 

[Takeshi245]

Wow. Talk about getting owned by 3 of the smartest people in the Brawl boards.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

tyeforce just got ***** lol no johns

blatantly false stereotypes ftl

 

[MookieRah]

I feel pretty bad for that guy XD.

But yeah, competitive people aren't all FD FOX DITTOS 4 STOCK NO ITEMS just as much as casual players aren't all screaming scrubs that like to rally against competitive play.

 

[GreenKirby]

Anyway, my two cents on why I hate both elitists.

Competitive elitists: I'll be honest right here. I'm more disappointed with this side than the casuals because I expected better from them. Anyway, with the removal of some advances techs, worrying about the moderated speed, and a new feel, I can't help but shake my head that these people aren't willing to start the sequel from stratch. That's my main problem with them. Not wanting to relearn the game. Just pick it up and master it on day one.

Casual elitists: They make me lol. I find this side more pathetic and it's funny because of that. They truly think that they can beat the pros because wavedashing is gone and because they play on all stages with items.. Honestly, whereas the competitive elitists don't wanna relearn, the casual elitists think they ALREADY mastered the game for goodness sake. Newsflash, if you're not good, you will get ***** no matter how you play. No ifs, ands, or behinds.

My two cents. :D

For one thing, don't use such a streotype that we play only on Final D as there are many tourney legal stages. We even don't play 4 stock all the time one on one or two on two if we are playing friendlies.

You need to tell the people I play with that. They're making me sick of Final Destination. Almost makes me wish it wasn't in Brawl.

 

[Darkurai]

The problem here is that the competitive players are using too harsh of a term: "suck". However, casual players struggle in accepting the truth no matter how harsh the terminology. The fact remains that tournament-goers will 99.99% of the time defeat a casual smasher. This is not a blind insult or cruel comment. It is a FACT. It is not a made-up fact, either. Most of us have real experiences of traveling around and wiping the floor with town heroes (players who think they are amazing; they probably defeat most locals, but they have no comprehension of the real world of smash). If you are a casual smasher, you should not care that you suck. You play for fun, right? Oh, but "suck" is a mean word, so casuals must fight back!

As harsh as it sounds, yes, casual players suck at the game. Don't take offense to it. Just accept it.

Contrary to popular belief, casual players are human beings as well.
I'm going to admit that I take insults to heart, really. Emotionally, I'm really unstable, so I really don't like it when people exaggerate. "Suck" really isn't an accurate word at all.
Dictionary.com's definition of that form of the word suck is as follows.

Slang. to be repellent or disgusting: Poverty sucks.

If I were to choose a word, I'd choose "inexperienced". Because that's what casual players are when compared to the competitive players.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Contrary to popular belief, casual players are human beings as well.
I'm going to admit that I take insults to heart, really. Emotionally, I'm really unstable, so I really don't like it when people exaggerate. "Suck" really isn't an accurate word at all.
Dictionary.com's definition of that form of the word suck is as follows.

If I were to choose a word, I'd choose "inexperienced". Because that's what casual players are when compared to the competitive players.

Well, I agree that "suck" is used excessively and inappropriately. Just make sure you attack the heart of the issue (what's being said, not how it's said).

 

[SiD]

Or, you know, you could not use dictionary definitions for commonly known slang terms.

If you're way worse than you can be at something, than you suck.

 

[GreenKirby]

Sucking is so relative nowadays, it inbred. And had 30 ******** children

 

[Saph66]

Hey guys, im a competative player here in kansas city, I rarely post on these boards, I mainly read... anywho, I am in the area with Darkrain and their meetup group. I have attended tourny's... ive been playing smash since 64, competative playing started oh, lets say a year and a half or more... Ive been trying to catch up on this topic here at work and ive read quite a large majority of what has to be said...

Anywho, before I was well as everyone calls it 'competative' I really didnt know any of the advanced moves, but I was still very competative and played my hardest and practiced everyday against my roomie... I learned of the boards and thats where I learned about Darkrains Smash group that meets up here, they are all kickass nice awesome people, I got my A$$ handed to me nonstop the first time I went.. I didnt *****, I was actually excited about all the new things I was going to learn. I am a very very good player, and so is my roomate who mains Ness, hell he stands a good chance with Ness against Darkrain too...

Getting down to the point... I have a friend here named RII who has been smashing with us since I first knew, he mains sheik but also plays peach, pikachu, samus, dr. mario... we all have a wide range of characters we use as any normal competative player would... heres the kicker... RII stands a good chance against me and my roomie and he doesnt even wavedash... thats right... 'a competative player who DOESNT use wavedash?!'... I guess what im trying to say is, wavedash is great, but NOT needed at all... he kind of breaks the 'competative' and 'casual' barrier I would say when it comes to technical skills, tho he does tech, thats pretty simple to get down...

I dunno, I have tons of respect for people who dont use wavedash because of him, and im telling you guys just to hang in tight, Brawl is just gunna pwn ...

~Fox Torres

Yes, there are good competitive players out there that don't wavedash. I think using it gives you more advantages as it gives you more options to move, as well as move faster in different situations.

Players who KNOW what they are doing is a different story. They know what to do, and when to do them. Even without wavedashing. A very good example is Masashi, and Aniki. They don't wavedash in battle, I'm not sure if they know how, but they are pro. Its the experience, knowledge, and mindgames that help win too.

I don't have much to say for either side though. Just play how you want, and have fun.

 

[Tyeforce]

Whoa, whoa, WHOA! I just post my piece of mind and I get bombarded with flames?! I know not all competitive games are played 4S/NI/FD, that was just an example. (It's what I my friend Chris always uses. He's never been to a real tournament, but believe me, he'd rank at least in the top 20. I'm not exaggerating, he's that good.) What I was saying was that there should be some tournaments with a few random explosions and such. I completely agree with Gimpy. Sorry if you misunderstood me. Just please stop the flaming. >_<; (I'm only here because NSider closed...)

 

[SiD]

Whoa, whoa, WHOA! I just post my piece of mind and I get bombarded with flames?! I know not all competitive games are played 4S/NI/FD, that was just an example. (It's what I my friend Chris always uses. He's never been to a real tournament, but believe me, he'd rank at least in the top 20. I'm not exaggerating, he's that good.) What I was saying was that there should be some tournaments with a few random explosions and such. I completely agree with Gimpy. Sorry if you misunderstood me. Just please stop the flaming. >_<; (I'm only here because NSider closed...)

lol, NSiders.

Who was flaming you? What you posted was slander, so we corrected you.

I doubt that about your friend, he's probably not that good since you don't have much to go by never being to a tourney and all.

And there are item tourneys, don't assume **** please.

 

[MookieRah]

(what's being said, not how it's said).

A-****in-men yo. Jesus, if only the entire world focused on the "meaning" behind what we say and not the words we use.

Penn and Teller Bull**** anyone?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Wavedashing is not a glitch:

http://roabs.blogspot.com/2007/11/wavedash-is-not-glitch.html

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Like I said earlier, I think that the primary reason why casuals have such a distaste from cempetative play because of these causes:

1. Being uninformed.

2. Feel that technique is the cause of segregation between casual and competative players.

In theory, casuals have such a distaste because of these things; thinking that using a technique will seperate a casual player from a professional. It's pretty much an argument between the informed and the uninformed.

 

[ELI-mination]

Whoa, whoa, WHOA! I just post my piece of mind and I get bombarded with flames?! I know not all competitive games are played 4S/NI/FD, that was just an example. (It's what I my friend Chris always uses. He's never been to a real tournament, but believe me, he'd rank at least in the top 20. I'm not exaggerating, he's that good.) What I was saying was that there should be some tournaments with a few random explosions and such. I completely agree with Gimpy. Sorry if you misunderstood me. Just please stop the flaming. >_<; (I'm only here because NSider closed...)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA