CASUAL ELITISTS vs COMPETITIVE ELITISTS!!!!

[TheBuzzSaw]

I don't get why people even fight. It's just the game, and if you do it the way you do it, fine, as long as you're having fun with Smash Bros. What I don't get is, why in the world did this fight start?

I completely agree. The answer is casual players started telling competitive players that they played the game "wrong". WTF?

 

[joeysmash]

I consider my self a very good smash player. But there are never any tornaments in GA..... or not where i live.

Items are fun with 4 people. but for 2, i usually will turn items off.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I consider my self a very good smash player. But there are never any tornaments in GA..... or not where i live.

Items are fun with 4 people. but for 2, i usually will turn items off.

Georgia has lots of tournaments. There are tons of players in Atlanta, Columbus, and then others scattered in random smaller towns. Check the Atlantic South board to find players/tourneys near you.

 

[joeysmash]

i never see any in Savannah......

 

[Sliq]

I completely agree. The answer is casual players started telling competitive players that they played the game "wrong". WTF?

The opposite also happened.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Its a he said she said thing.

The only reason it a constant issue is because casual players feel they can compete with competitive players if we simply put items on and played on Hyrule. When the truth is that we would still win. The simple idea that a group is superior skill wise is what upsets the lesser group (in terms of skill) because they, often times, don't even know that there are better players out there.

 

[Bob Hollywood]

The only problem I've ever had with competitive players in general is that they often have a tendency to get too competitive, and become very annoying to play with.

I don't really specialize in moves like wavedashing, l-canceling, etc., and unfortunately, this tends to make competitive players confused and angry. Competitive players have told me on several occasions that if I don't start taking time out of my fun to practice wavedashing, then I'll always be a failure and that I should be ashamed of myself.

It's true that I don't win against competitive players very often, but I just wish more competitive players could at least make an attempt to be tolerant of other styles of gaming.

In b4 waves of competitive players telling me that all competitive players are relaxed and tolerant, and that I'm probably just doing something to piss them off.

 

[ValiantVernon]

lol i agree play how u want! For example i play with a very rare wavedash for edgehogging and l canceling for links d air. Even when using only a few of these "pro tactics" i can still beat alot of competitive players no problem. It isnt even like i cant i just choose not to cause not using them can actually mess some competitive players up! U dont HAVE to use these special tricks, u can win without them. Now if u wanna be the best in the world i guess u should probably learn to use them...but either way it doesnt matter so dont hate appreciate!: )

 

[Red Exodus]

Winning, using Link, with no advanced techniques [not even edgehogging]? I'd like to see that.

I've done the casual thing for years and got bored. If I didn't find out about ATs I'd probably have no intertest in Melee right now. Taking the game to the next level is always fun, it's like doing speed runs, only in multiplayer.

 

[Sliq]

Its a he said she said thing.

The only reason it a constant issue is because casual players feel they can compete with competitive players if we simply put items on and played on Hyrule. When the truth is that we would still win. The simple idea that a group is superior skill wise is what upsets the lesser group (in terms of skill) because they, often times, don't even know that there are better players out there.

Plus they hate the fact that we say things like this, regardless of how true it is.

The only problem I've ever had with competitive players in general is that they often have a tendency to get too competitive, and become very annoying to play with.

I don't really specialize in moves like wavedashing, l-canceling, etc., and unfortunately, this tends to make competitive players confused and angry. Competitive players have told me on several occasions that if I don't start taking time out of my fun to practice wavedashing, then I'll always be a failure and that I should be ashamed of myself.

It's true that I don't win against competitive players very often, but I just wish more competitive players could at least make an attempt to be tolerant of other styles of gaming.

In b4 waves of competitive players telling me that all competitive players are relaxed and tolerant, and that I'm probably just doing something to piss them off.

*******s are everywhere. Another example of the few ruining something for the many.

 

[DraginHikari]

Plus they hate the fact that we say things like this, regardless of how true it is.



*******s are everywhere. Another example of the few ruining something for the many.

Well that's exactly how human stereotyping works. Regardless of how many times people try to break those stereotypes they seem to linger.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Some stereotypes are true though. Like how MW Jigglypuff players have tiny manparts.

 

[ChiefOnionSauce]

Some stereotypes are true though. Like how MW Jigglypuff players have tiny manparts.

Ken's Peach Theory...

 

[spindash]

PREACH IT!

Way to go. I'm new here, but by gods there was so much elitism at the NSider forums that it wasn't even funny. .___.;

I'm an advanced Smasher, but really, you'd have to catch me dead if I was to treat someone else like garbage just because they play Smash a certain way.

I'll take this for example. Me, when I was in the singles tournament for Animethon this year, there weren't too many advanced smashers there. I think the only one that I know of now that was there was Steve. My first match-up in the tournament was against a guy who used Young Link. He obviously played more casually then I did, and I 3-stocked easily enough. Not once. Not ONCE during that entire match did I ever think to myself, "God this guy's pathetic,"

The only thing going through my mind? "This is a tournament! Alright! I'm moving up!" And I had a blast playing with anyone, no matter what the skill level. I don't get the feeling of disappointment if I lose a match. Actually, it feels GOOD to have actually placed second to Steve whose a pro at the game, granted that it was in Doubles.

My message to all smashers everywhere! Play the game how you want to, take advice to improve if you WANT it, and if you're just already good at Smash Bros. already? Go play, have a blast, but don't belittle those that just aren't as l33t as you are.

In other words, well said Gimpyfish.

 

[Darkurai]

Its a he said she said thing.

The only reason it a constant issue is because casual players feel they can compete with competitive players if we simply put items on and played on Hyrule. When the truth is that we would still win. The simple idea that a group is superior skill wise is what upsets the lesser group (in terms of skill) because they, often times, don't even know that there are better players out there.

I have never heard this.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i've seen that way to many times, its like they think if you put items in a competitive players hands they would crumble and fall, and the casual players would reign supreme

 

[spindash]

i've seen that way to many times, its like they think if you put items in a competitive players hands they would crumble and fall, and the casual players would reign supreme

The only advantage that I would think a more casual player would have in that perdicament with items on is luck. Otherwise the more competitive ones will be the ones taking better advantage of most items.

 

[Paingel]

Meh, I really don't want to hear the whining of scrubs...

But you know what? I don't want to see arrogance of elitists either.

Like this one time, there's this one competitive player that I used to know... He asked me if I knew what SHFFLing was.. WDing was.. Wall of Pain... etc... Now I had no idea what these were at the time, and I said as much.

Now.. he didn't say anything to me directly. Actually, he became very quiet after that. But when someone else came in he was like "Oh! Someone who KNOWS how to play" as though he were tired and weary of my ineptitude.

Now, sure, if I was just some random loser, his opinion would be a lot more... forgivable. Actually, it would be perfectly understandable... After all, I did suck (though I didn't know it at the time) and he was probably just bored.

But he was playing MY Smash on MY Gamecube with MY controllers. Show some **** respect, jerk! We had all played it in that room before (it was in the office of a certain club), but the ones who were bringing the GCN etc decided not to anymore and so I decided to pick up the slack. I was doing this guy a favor by even allowing him to play on my personal stuff, and this is the way he acted towards me?

After that, he even ignored me when I said it was time to go... like somehow he had the right to decide if he could keep playing or not. He could have at least said "Let me play just one more match!" but no... The guy just dismissed me like I wasn't even there.

Well, I don't really let that guy use my stuff anymore. I mean, I don't care if they never say thank you, but you could've at least been respectful instead of abusive.

But then he probably just didn't even know it was mine, since someone else usually brought that stuff. Still, there's such a thing as good sportsmanship and common decency...

So yeah, both sides are guilty of stuff. But then.. how many competitives would really say that this person in my story was an accurate reflection of you? Probably not very many.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I have never heard this.

Now you have.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Meh, I really don't want to hear the whining of scrubs...

But you know what? I don't want to see arrogance of elitists either.

Elitist scrubs are the worst.

 

[Dalazum]

i'm a spammer and i'm also not funny at all woooohooooo!!!

 

[Gimpyfish62]

posts like that are not appreciated by mods, especially not in their own threads.

 

[Kazydai]

Pit a Casual player against a Competitive player and tell me who wins...yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[2.72]

i've seen that way to many times, its like they think if you put items in a competitive players hands they would crumble and fall, and the casual players would reign supreme

But that's totally true! It's why all the casual players totally schooled you at E for All, Gimpy, because it was a different game with items and with many stages that would, by melee standards, be banned.

Yeah. I bet that you never won a game and were the worst brawler there. The competitive edge just melted away with items

EDIT[

Spoiler

I was being very sarcastic. Here, I'll include a smiley with the tongue sticking out to make it more obvious.

]

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

But that's totally true! It's why all the casual players totally schooled you at E for All, Gimpy, because it was a different game with items and with many stages that would, by melee standards, be banned.

Yeah. I bet that you never won a game and were the worst brawler there. The competitive edge just melted away with items.

I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic.

 

[Micahc]

So far all that has happened in this thread is that the scrubs are just insulting the elitists, while the elitists are just telling the scrubs to play how they want, even though the scrubs are saying the elitist "ways" are being enforced on them. Wow scrubs, way to represent!

 

[SiD]

So far all that has happened in this thread is that the scrubs are just insulting the elitists, while the elitists are just telling the scrubs to play how they want, even though the scrubs are saying the elitist "ways" are being enforced on them. Wow scrubs, way to represent!

.....

And that's a good way to represent competitive players?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

The aggravating thing about scrubs attacking tactics like wavedashing and whatnot is that I am so far past discovering its worth and learning it that it's like us attacking casual players' use of the attack button. Seriously, wavedashing is so far from "advanced" in my mind that it blows me away that some casual players view that as "cheap" or "cheating".

 

[Micahc]

.....

And that's a good way to represent competitive players?

Pissed off at the scrubs? At least we're not accosting their way of playing. If scrubs hate us, then they should just deal with it. I'm fine with scrubs, heck I still play 99 stock, super sudden death, home run bat only matches on Final Destination with three other friends. I'm just sick of scrubs attacking elitists, even though there has been nothing done to provoke the scrubs in the first place.

 

[2.72]

So far all that has happened in this thread is that the scrubs are just insulting the elitists, while the elitists are just telling the scrubs to play how they want, even though the scrubs are saying the elitist "ways" are being enforced on them. Wow scrubs, way to represent!

OK, I'll try to do better on the behalf of scrubs.

I like Final Destination, Battlefield, and Yoshi Story. I hate items, not because of competitive reasons, just because I don't have as much fun playing with them. I think that some competitive players, and some casual players, are wonderful people. Others on both sides are jerks. Up until recently, I had issues with mod tolerance of competitive players more than scrubs, but thankfully this has changed. Yes, I'm probably going to get flamed for that last bit, and I don't care.

I don't have anything against people who wavedash, although I've never learned to do it myself. I've seen plenty of scrubs who can because they spent a while practicing it, but never learned when to wavedash. I can beat most of them. I cannot beat competitive players, although I haven't played many.

Time for some controversial opinions on Brawl. I don't think that wavedashing should be in brawl because it's too technically intensive and it helps some characters (ie space animals) way more than others (ie bowser). Likewise, I don't like melee L-cancelling. It seems to me like saying, "OK, you've spent enough time playing. Now your character can recover from attacks faster." Artificial skill differentiation cannot replace real thought. Brawl L-cancelling actually looks very well thought out to me. It's less reflex-intensive and more tactically interesting. I'm not sure that I like the new air dodging as much, but I'm reserving judgment. I wish that neutral B moves could still allow your character to turn around, and that some could be canceled upon lagging, because I think that that increases fluidity. I have mixed feelings about the new sweet spotting. It removes a bit of tactical depth, but also a bit of reflex-intensive work.

I'm a scrub. I'm not particularly proud of it, I just don't really enjoy practicing advanced techniques just to win more. Meleeing is very much something that I do in my spare time against my friends. That being said, I'm pretty good (and pretty serious) for a scrub. I don't have anything against either tourney players or scrubs, and I'm often caught between them. I'm a scrub in terms of how well I play, and I don't want to play competitively, but I often find myself agreeing more with competitive players than other scrubs, except about some high-profile issues (wavedashing). On those issues, I think that many, many people on both sides were being idiots, and that people on each side tend to be selectively blind, including (only rarely) moderators. To the moderator's credit, they have done way more than I expected or than I could have to preserve civility on these boards. They have spent a lot of time on it. Thanks.

I don't particularly like the word scrub, although I used it here. Notice how insulting it can sound. I'm not going to get angry about it and spam the boards over the issue, though.

I'm not sure that I really represented scrubs well because I am so far outside the norm, but I tried.

EDIT: Wow, I didn't intend to write this much. Oh well. Walls of text are good for your health. They build character.

 

[Igneous42]

I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic.

and even if you are, I was at eforall, I played gimpy and I lost. (though he got 2 giant mushrooms, not like that made much difference though)

Me= Casual
Gimpy=Pro

Gimpy was easily one of, if not the best players there.

 

[2.72]

Yes, Igneous, I know. I was making fun of the "pros would fall if items were on" concept because we have very good empirical evidence that they will, in fact, still school us casual players.

Keep in mind that he did it without most melee advanced techs, too.

I should really learn to communicate sarcasm better over forums. It seems like no one understood... *sigh*

 

[Igneous42]

Yes, Igneous, I know. I was making fun of the "pros would fall if items were on" concept because we have very good empirical evidence that they will, in fact, still school us casual players.

Keep in mind that he did it without most melee advanced techs, too.

I should really learn to communicate sarcasm better over forums. It seems like no one understood... *sigh*

well sarcasm is mostly identified by tone of voice, which writing does not have.

And yeah it's funny when people (anyone) makes excuses about how pros wouldn't do good without items.

 

[ValiantVernon]

for the record i never said i didnt edge guard i was saying i dont wavedash much EXCEPT to edge guard : ) thats one of the things i think is kinda needed to be good is edge guarding, but i also dont think of it being some really good special thing like alot of people think wavedashing is, i heard about wavedashing, i accidentily figured out edgeguardingn 2 nights after i got the game...thats the difference for me.

 

[choknater]

If I don't wavedash, does that mean I have a life?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

If I don't wavedash, does that mean I have a life?

I don't know how serious you were with this question, but I will answer it anyway because many people say stuff like this (don't take anything personally).

There is no direct relationship to one's dedication to smash and whether that person has a life. The first major flaw in the argument is that everyone defines having a life (or having no life) differently. I am a competitive smasher, but I am married. I must have had some form of life in order to be able to date and be interesting to girls (well, at least one, anyway). On the other hand, I know guys who refuse to "waste time" learning all the advanced techniques, but they blow whole days watching Family Guy in their dorms with their buddies. Who has more of a life?

 

[abit_rusty]

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!

I really don't see where any animosity can spawn from player using adv. techs against a player not using adv. techs. I just let those non-adv. tech users be the way they are, since that's their choice of play. I just dislike it when they get in a sore mood and blame it on me using adv. techs, because then they are being a teensy bit hypocritical/brash.

I don't know how serious you were with this question, but I will answer it anyway because many people say stuff like this (don't take anything personally).

There is no direct relationship to one's dedication to smash and whether that person has a life. The first major flaw in the argument is that everyone defines having a life (or having no life) differently. I am a competitive smasher, but I am married. I must have had some form of life in order to be able to date and be interesting to girls (well, at least one, anyway). On the other hand, I know guys who refuse to "waste time" learning all the advanced techniques, but they blow whole days watching Family Guy in their dorms with their buddies. Who has more of a life?

QFT. Another pet peeve of mine is when less-skilled players correlate good smash skills with having no life outside of super smash/video games. I can honestly say I hate when they do that.....narrow-minded ignorants.....

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

QFT. Another pet peeve of mine is when less-skilled players correlate good smash skills with having no life outside of super smash/video games. I can honestly say I hate when they do that.....narrow-minded ignorants.....

It's really just their way to cope with their losses. Without some explanation, they feel violated.

 

[ksadkiller]

no such thing as a casual elitist

/thread

 

[Endless Nightmares]

no such thing as a casual elitist

/thread

You're kidding, right?