CASUAL ELITISTS vs COMPETITIVE ELITISTS!!!!

[Sliq]

Time for some controversial opinions on Brawl. I don't think that wavedashing should be in brawl because it's too technically intensive and it helps some characters (ie space animals) way more than others (ie bowser). Likewise, I don't like melee L-cancelling. It seems to me like saying, "OK, you've spent enough time playing. Now your character can recover from attacks faster." Artificial skill differentiation cannot replace real thought. Brawl L-cancelling actually looks very well thought out to me. It's less reflex-intensive and more tactically interesting. I'm not sure that I like the new air dodging as much, but I'm reserving judgment. I wish that neutral B moves could still allow your character to turn around, and that some could be canceled upon lagging, because I think that that increases fluidity. I have mixed feelings about the new sweet spotting. It removes a bit of tactical depth, but also a bit of reflex-intensive work.

The thing is, where do you draw the line on technical ability? Should you not even have to move your fingers to play? Should your thoughts just manifest as actions on the screen? Why then, not play chess? Chess requires a great deal of thinking, but no technical ability (besides not knocking over the god**** board as you move your piece).

The point is that SOME technical feats have to be in there, otherwise it becomes less about the combined effort of strategy and ability and becomes all about strategy, and there are already games like this, most of which I do not enjoy.

I don't care for the new l-canceling, but I also haven't played it, so I'll just have to withhold final judgment until I play it.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

no such thing as a casual elitist

/thread

Elitism is a sense of superiority and security; Believing that ones ideals are those of a populas and are superior to other ideals.


Elitism can exist in several ways.

 

[KevinM]

Come on guys i can already see the embers starting to spark.

Keep cool

 

[Paingel]

You know.. I don't really think it's a matter of casuals hating elitists or competitives hating scrubs...

I think it's a matter of all of us hating arrogant people.

If you're a casual facing a scrub, then the scrub will probably not lash out at you with his arrogance.

If you're a competitive facing an elitist, then the elitist will probably not lash out at you with his arrogance.

This is because arrogance accepts its own kind. After all: it's Arrogance. Arrogance is always right. Therefore anything that agrees with Arrogance is automatically right by default. How could it possibly be any other way?

But when you put an arrogant person together with someone who's different than they are (Such as: a scrub vs. a competitive or an elitist vs. a casual), then that arrogance becomes aggressive and maybe even angry. After all, the arrogant person knows that his opponent is totally wrong, perhaps even evil or wretched, for daring to having a different way of playing. Arrogance cannot help but despise this most detestable individual, and who wouldn't?

Well, anyone who isn't an arrogant *** wouldn't... but don't tell Arrogance that. He hates it when you disagree with him. After all, he's like God's gift to the world! How dare you blasphemy by being different?

(Okay kids! Can you find all of the sarcastic comments in this post? There's 10 in all!)

 

[2.72]

The thing is, where do you draw the line on technical ability? Should you not even have to move your fingers to play? Should your thoughts just manifest as actions on the screen? Why then, not play chess? Chess requires a great deal of thinking, but no technical ability (besides not knocking over the god**** board as you move your piece).

The point is that SOME technical feats have to be in there, otherwise it becomes less about the combined effort of strategy and ability and becomes all about strategy, and there are already games like this, most of which I do not enjoy.

I don't care for the new l-canceling, but I also haven't played it, so I'll just have to withhold final judgment until I play it.

It's entirely personal taste. My only requirement is that anything that increases technical skill but not tactical depth should get the axe. Hence, Brawl's L-cancelling looks interesting because it is less often required (less delay after attacks imitates melee's L-canceling but without the reflexes), but also offers some interesting choices: do you attack as soon as you can to get the attack out faster, or do you delay so that the attack is canceled faster?

Obviously, I haven't played the game, so I don't know how well it worked out in practice. I just like the idea.

L-cancelling is the only technique in melee that I think needed to go because it supported only technical skill and not strategy (there are no conceivable circumstances in which you do not want to L-cancel, so it doesn't add choices to the game).

I agree that their should be some technical feats. As a fairly fast-paced game, even smooth comboing can be somewhat technical, as is teching. I want to see melee's technical feats relaxed somewhat, but not removed. You probably disagree with me there. I acknowledge that a lot of competitive players will.

 

[Sliq]

L-cancelling is the only technique in melee that I think needed to go because it supported only technical skill and not strategy (there are no conceivable circumstances in which you do not want to L-cancel, so it doesn't add choices to the game)..

Sure it does. No one plays perfectly, so you have to weigh the success of an attack or shield pressuring technique against the consequence of missing an l-cancel and getting punished. PLUS id you get hit as you are trying to l-cancel, you may not be able to tech. You can not mash l or r to tech, there is a very specific window between each press of the shoulder button that determines when you are able to tech.

Furthermore, some moves end before you hit the ground, granted you don't fast fall (Jigglypuff nair and bair, Marth nair. fair, and bair, Dr. Mario bair, Link bair, etc.). Therefore, you don't need to l-cancel these moves if you timed your fast fall correctly. HOWEVER, you would be in the air longer, waiting for the move to end before you landed without lag, making you vulnerable. So you COULD shffl the move, but you might miss the l-cancel, or even miss with the attack because of your trajectory.

Or you can use this as a mindgame. Instead of sffling the move, you jump and do another aerial.

If l-canceling were to be removed, then Nintendo should definitely make aerials half as laggy as normal, so they auto-cancel, otherwise no one will ever leave their shield, and shield grabbing will be broken.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

2.72, you make no sense. How is an added technical ability not an increase in strategy? It sounds like you are attempting to measure natural talent, not one's ability to just learn what the game has to offer.

 

[RDK]

L-cancelling is the only technique in melee that I think needed to go because it supported only technical skill and not strategy (there are no conceivable circumstances in which you do not want to L-cancel, so it doesn't add choices to the game).

What are you talking about? How is L-cancelling not used in game strategy? It's a HUGE part of Melee gameplay. To state otherwise is just ludicrous.

 

[2.72]

If l-canceling were to be removed, then Nintendo should definitely make aerials half as laggy as normal, so they auto-cancel, otherwise no one will ever leave their shield, and shield grabbing will be broken.

Which is exactly what they appear to have done.

My point is that L-canceling just trains you to press L right before you hit the ground all the time, if you are executing a midair attack. It's a construct that serves no purpose except to allow people who have played enough to move faster. Rote training in automatic muscle reflexes is not strategy because decisions are not involved, and strategy very directly revolves around making such decisions.

Really, if L-canceling were not in the game (and lag times were cut in half), the game would still be very fast-paced and reflex intensive. Adding another construct that serves no purpose other than to reward reflexes isn't a good idea.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Which is exactly what they appear to have done.

My point is that L-canceling just trains you to press L right before you hit the ground all the time, if you are executing a midair attack. It's a construct that serves no purpose except to allow people who have played enough to move faster. Rote training in automatic muscle reflexes is not strategy because decisions are not involved, and strategy very directly revolves around making such decisions.

Really, if L-canceling were not in the game (and lag times were cut in half), the game would still be very fast-paced and reflex intensive. Adding another construct that serves no purpose other than to reward reflexes isn't a good idea.

... Then don't use it. Use your strategies and see how well you do.

 

[Takeshi245]

Which is exactly what they appear to have done.

My point is that L-canceling just trains you to press L right before you hit the ground all the time, if you are executing a midair attack. It's a construct that serves no purpose except to allow people who have played enough to move faster. Rote training in automatic muscle reflexes is not strategy because decisions are not involved, and strategy very directly revolves around making such decisions.

Really, if L-canceling were not in the game (and lag times were cut in half), the game would still be very fast-paced and reflex intensive. Adding another construct that serves no purpose other than to reward reflexes isn't a good idea.

Yes because giving reward to skill is bad. Not l-cancelling is a bad strategy and won't make you rank up well in a tournament with good players. L-cancelling helps with strategy and execution of attacks and evasive manuevers that not l-cancelling can't provide. There's that and Buzz, Sliq, and Red Darkstar Kirby already have disproven you. I'll still keep my eyes on this thread.

 

[Ixninjax]

Which is exactly what they appear to have done.

My point is that L-canceling just trains you to press L right before you hit the ground all the time, if you are executing a midair attack. It's a construct that serves no purpose except to allow people who have played enough to move faster. Rote training in automatic muscle reflexes is not strategy because decisions are not involved, and strategy very directly revolves around making such decisions.

Really, if L-canceling were not in the game (and lag times were cut in half), the game would still be very fast-paced and reflex intensive. Adding another construct that serves no purpose other than to reward reflexes isn't a good idea.

Actually, removing l-canceling would lower the depth. You obviously have no knowledge of melees older metagame, which is a few years old. Back then l-canceling was not widely known tactic, so the only safe approach to shield was a grab. But if you ever approached a shield with any other move, shield grab or up-b out of shield is guaranteed. This only increased turtling among smashers. And made link more tourney viable with his awesome up-b out shield being so abusable. L-canceling has definitely made smash's metagame less shallow, as it allows more options when assaulting someones shield instead of a guaranteed punishment from to much lag without l-canceling.

I don't wanna make assumptions or anything, but it seems that even you yourself can't l-cancel. You don't seem to understand how l-canceling really affects a battle, even the simple fact that if you can move faster then your opponent that you have strategic advantage over your opponent. Im not saying your opinion means nothing, but being able to see from a casual AND a competitive side really helps both sides of smashers have a real debate.

 

[2.72]

I don't wanna make assumptions or anything, but it seems that even you yourself can't l-cancel. You don't seem to understand how l-canceling really affects a battle, even the simple fact that if you can move faster then your opponent that you have strategic advantage over your opponent. Im not saying your opinion means nothing, but being able to see from a casual AND a competitive side really helps both sides of smashers have a real debate.

I can and do L-cancel.

My point isn't that the lag decrease is good - I agree that it is, because shield grabbing should not be that important - but that the actual act of pressing L should be automatic (as it is, in brawl). The last few posters seem to have completely overlooked that point. Sliq, on the other hand, offered a very nice counterpoint, but one that is rooted fundamentally in "all humans are flawed."

Seeing that neither side (me or the rest of Smashboards) is going to see the other side's point, I vote that we terminate this discussion here. If you have something useful to add, I want to read it, but other than that we're not getting anywhere (hey, at least we aren't heading towards a flame war. Thanks, guys).

On a completely unrelated note, Buzz, I liked your comments about banning characters. That was very well written.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

On a completely unrelated note, Buzz, I liked your comments about banning characters. That was very well written.

I wish I could take credit, but that was actually written by my co-writer, Coaxial Cable. I'll send the word along. ^_^

 

[Ixninjax]

I can and do L-cancel.

My point isn't that the lag decrease is good - I agree that it is, because shield grabbing should not be that important - but that the actual act of pressing L should be automatic (as it is, in brawl). The last few posters seem to have completely overlooked that point. Sliq, on the other hand, offered a very nice counterpoint, but one that is rooted fundamentally in "all humans are flawed."

Seeing that neither side (me or the rest of Smashboards) is going to see the other side's point, I vote that we terminate this discussion here. If you have something useful to add, I want to read it, but other than that we're not getting anywhere (hey, at least we aren't heading towards a flame war. Thanks, guys).

On a completely unrelated note, Buzz, I liked your comments about banning characters. That was very well written.

Forgive me for misinterpreting your words. But I still see no problem with adding a little technical depth to a game, a little extra work on someones part should be rewarded anyway.

 

[2.72]

Forgive me for misinterpreting your words. But I still see no problem with adding a little technical depth to a game, a little extra work on someones part should be rewarded anyway.

You're forgiven! Forgive me for not being clearer .

I suppose that this is exactly where we differ. I don't think that people should be rewarded for extra practice more than happens naturally, because I think that Smash is sufficiently technical without L-canceling. I suppose that we'll have to agree to disagree.

Happy smashing.

 

[Sliq]

I can and do L-cancel.

My point isn't that the lag decrease is good - I agree that it is, because shield grabbing should not be that important - but that the actual act of pressing L should be automatic (as it is, in brawl). The last few posters seem to have completely overlooked that point. Sliq, on the other hand, offered a very nice counterpoint, but one that is rooted fundamentally in "all humans are flawed."

Seeing that neither side (me or the rest of Smashboards) is going to see the other side's point, I vote that we terminate this discussion here. If you have something useful to add, I want to read it, but other than that we're not getting anywhere (hey, at least we aren't heading towards a flame war. Thanks, guys).

On a completely unrelated note, Buzz, I liked your comments about banning characters. That was very well written.

From, the sound of Gimpyfish, I was under the impression that aerials had less lag than non-l-canceled Melee aerials, but more lag then l-canceled aerials. I was also under the impression that by FF'ing right before you start an aerial you have NO lag (ala SSB64)when you land.

2.72's argument is that there is no downside to l-canceling, and therefore it is unnecessarily technical, because it should be assumed that you will always l-cancel, by you and your opponent.

Just imagine Melee if l-cancels were automatic. Most pro players already l-cancel almost everything, so it isn't that hard to imagine.

I pointed out a few instances in which it could backfire, but no one is honestly going to not l-cancel in order to avoid that situation.

 

[Ixninjax]

From, the sound of Gimpyfish, I was under the impression that aerials had less lag than non-l-canceled Melee aerials, but more lag then l-canceled aerials. I was also under the impression that by FF'ing right before you start an aerial you have NO lag (ala SSB64)when you land.

I was under the impression that aerials naturally had reduced lag, but if you l-cancel you remove all the lag. Now I have no idea.

 

[2.72]

From, the sound of Gimpyfish, I was under the impression that aerials had less lag than non-l-canceled Melee aerials, but more lag then l-canceled aerials. I was also under the impression that by FF'ing right before you start an aerial you have NO lag (ala SSB64)when you land.

I think that that's pretty much it. To me, it looked like most of them were roughly comparable to L-canceled melee moves, but the laggier ones (ie Link's down air) were well above the melee l-canceled version.

It's hard to tell from for sure from the videos, because some of the lag can be fairly invisible (and because Youtube's frame rate leaves something to be desired). Oh, and the fact that many of these attacks didn't exist in SSBM, and those that did have been changed, makes a direct comparison difficult. Hopefully Gimpy will come along and tell us if we're misinterpreting him.

Here's the relevant quote about fast-falling, just in case anyone is confused. In essence, you are all correct.

L Canceling – Alright, the very last day we had the demo we finally figured this one out. You CAN l cancel, and l canceling removes all the lag from your aerials. Remember that l cancel stands for LAG cancel, NOT the button that you press. You l cancel in brawl by fast falling and then doing your aerials, it takes a bit of getting used to, but it’s obviously useful to have no lag after moves. You don't actually have to press a button, as long as you are fast falling before you do your aerial you should l cancel.

 

[Micahc]

If you want no tech skill, and only strategy, go play Pokemon or chess. Strategy is in Melee and will undoubtedly be in Brawl, but you can never get rid of tech skill. It's always there, and it will always be important.

 

[CaptainFalco30]

Do Not Speak Ill of Pokemon!!!


Ha, aight, here's my real take on the matter. Very rarely do these two groups of players actually interact. Competitive players play with eachother and casual players play with eachother. If you are a casual player and you go to a tournament, you have to expect far better players to be there, and you can't expect to win your first tournament no matter how much/little you know.

I can do all the advanced techs in practice, but can't incorporate them into my game, yet. But everything takes practice, and every good video game has a difference between good and bad. Fact is, wavedashing does not make/break the game. I know players who are very good and don't or can't wavedash. Are they the best in the world? No, but they can regularly beat the guy who just wavedashes back and forth to show he can. Or you can do what I do, and play Jiggs so you don't have to worry about wavedashing :D

L-canceling was in SS64, anyways, so clearly its not just a glitch or else it would've been removed the first time around.

 

[2.72]

CaptainFalco, I agree with everything you just said, except that I speak ill of pokemon.

There is also the problem that competitive players and casual players have a hard time, in my experience, playing together and both enjoying it.

Suppose that two people, Timmy and Spike, become friends. Timmy is a casual player, Spike a tournament goer. Timmy invites Spike over to his house with a few other casual players, and they play a few rounds, free for all style, with items and maybe even on (ugh) hyrule temple. Then Spike gets to choose the rules. He turns items off, stocks on, selects final destination, and turns teams on. He proceeds to own everyone with a really spammy SHL falco.

You can see why Timmy might be a bit upset, no?

Now think about Spike when he was playing the free for alls on Hyrule Temple. Do you think he was having fun? Even if he doesn't decide to be a jerk and just plays along with them, he might find it difficult to lower himself to their level. I know I would, were I good. I'm not a competitive player, so maybe you all could actually have fun screwing around with some character that you never play and intentionally avoiding advanced techs.

It's not just that pros and casuals don't interact much, but that the interactions are often not fun for one party, or for both.

 

[Micahc]

Do Not Speak Ill of Pokemon!!!

Actually, I play Pokemon more competitively than Smash

CaptainFalco, I agree with everything you just said, except that I speak ill of pokemon.

There is also the problem that competitive players and casual players have a hard time, in my experience, playing together and both enjoying it.

Suppose that two people, Timmy and Spike, become friends. Timmy is a casual player, Spike a tournament goer. Timmy invites Spike over to his house with a few other casual players, and they play a few rounds, free for all style, with items and maybe even on (ugh) hyrule temple. Then Spike gets to choose the rules. He turns items off, stocks on, selects final destination, and turns teams on. He proceeds to own everyone with a really spammy SHL falco.

You can see why Timmy might be a bit upset, no?

Now think about Spike when he was playing the free for alls on Hyrule Temple. Do you think he was having fun? Even if he doesn't decide to be a jerk and just plays along with them, he might find it difficult to lower himself to their level. I know I would, were I good. I'm not a competitive player, so maybe you all could actually have fun screwing around with some character that you never play and intentionally avoiding advanced techs.

It's not just that pros and casuals don't interact much, but that the interactions are often not fun for one party, or for both.

Frankly, it just sounds like they need to suck it up and play by each others rules :/

I have reall casual friends and when I play at their house it's supper sudden death on Hyrule, they come over and it's 2 vs 2 on Final destination 4 stock. People need to suck it up and play by the rules of whoever owns the Cube or game...

 

[Red Exodus]

CaptainFalco, I agree with everything you just said, except that I speak ill of pokemon.

There is also the problem that competitive players and casual players have a hard time, in my experience, playing together and both enjoying it.

Suppose that two people, Timmy and Spike, become friends. Timmy is a casual player, Spike a tournament goer. Timmy invites Spike over to his house with a few other casual players, and they play a few rounds, free for all style, with items and maybe even on (ugh) hyrule temple. Then Spike gets to choose the rules. He turns items off, stocks on, selects final destination, and turns teams on. He proceeds to own everyone with a really spammy SHL falco.

You can see why Timmy might be a bit upset, no?

Now think about Spike when he was playing the free for alls on Hyrule Temple. Do you think he was having fun? Even if he doesn't decide to be a jerk and just plays along with them, he might find it difficult to lower himself to their level. I know I would, were I good. I'm not a competitive player, so maybe you all could actually have fun screwing around with some character that you never play and intentionally avoiding advanced techs.

It's not just that pros and casuals don't interact much, but that the interactions are often not fun for one party, or for both.

This analogy is not that good, it's not much fun the 100th time you try to do a combo and someone interrupts.

Trust me, I know from first hand experience. I only get to play FFA [items off]. When 2 or more skilled people end up in a FFA it becomes very ****ty. You might find yourself beating down a noob only to find the skilled person ready to land a killing blow on you. Imagine fighting the skilled person only to have the noob interrupt your combo and giving the skilled player the upper hand.

Do not tell me this does not happen because it happens and it happens very often. I can't even edgeguard because I have to constantly watch my back for some noob trying to squeeze off an easy kill.

Neither side can enjoy themselves playing by the other's rules.

 

[greenblob]

CaptainFalco, I agree with everything you just said, except that I speak ill of pokemon.

There is also the problem that competitive players and casual players have a hard time, in my experience, playing together and both enjoying it.

Suppose that two people, Timmy and Spike, become friends. Timmy is a casual player, Spike a tournament goer. Timmy invites Spike over to his house with a few other casual players, and they play a few rounds, free for all style, with items and maybe even on (ugh) hyrule temple. Then Spike gets to choose the rules. He turns items off, stocks on, selects final destination, and turns teams on. He proceeds to own everyone with a really spammy SHL falco.

You can see why Timmy might be a bit upset, no?

Now think about Spike when he was playing the free for alls on Hyrule Temple. Do you think he was having fun? Even if he doesn't decide to be a jerk and just plays along with them, he might find it difficult to lower himself to their level. I know I would, were I good. I'm not a competitive player, so maybe you all could actually have fun screwing around with some character that you never play and intentionally avoiding advanced techs.

It's not just that pros and casuals don't interact much, but that the interactions are often not fun for one party, or for both.

Which is why I compared it to Plato's Cave Allegory.

 

[ToyzSoldier]

I don't understand why people call themselves "competitive" or "hardcore" when it comes to Smash Bros.

I see where they are coming from if they have been in tournaments, and have come in the top 3, then they can call themselves hardcore, but if they're just kids who sit in their room all day practicing "wavedashing" etc. then that's just pathetic.

No, your talking about the difference of a pro from a newb
that are both in the competitive category.

 

[FireWater]

Here are the differences between the groups of elitists

The competitive elitist think they are better than others because they are good at a video game (i.e. Smash)

The casual elitists think they are better because they are NOT good at a video game (i.e. Smash)

 

[M.K]

Here are the differences between the groups of elitists

The competitive elitist think they are better than others because they are good at a video game (i.e. Smash)

The casual elitists think they are better because they are NOT good at a video game (i.e. Smash)

You have HORRIBLE logic and should be ashamed of that comment.
Competitive Elitists go to tournaments and win.
Casual Elitists go to a party and win.

It isn't a matter of skill rather than location.

 

[FireWater]

No,

The definition of a casual player is someone who does not take the game seriously (i.e. non-competitive) there are those casual elitists who think they are better because they are not good at a video game.

Sorry, but either you have a flawed definition of a elitist, or misread my post.

 

[Scar]

I am a competitive elitist and I think I am better than you. So FireWater's right about something.

 

[Eternalfire]

What if I play with with friends that are pretty competitive? I know how to l-cancel, short hop, fast fall, but I don't really wavedash since I main Link. I suppose I'm a hybrid.

 

[Scar]

What if I play with with friends that are pretty competitive? I know how to l-cancel, short hop, fast fall, but I don't really wavedash since I main Link. I suppose I'm a hybrid.

If you intend to get better, you are currently a scrub. The good news is, if you go to tournaments, you will eventually graduate to a competitive player. If you ever do get that good though, beware, because some other scrub will probably be calling you a tourney*** because he sucks and you don't.

If you are happy with your current skill level and your friends get better, you are going to end up being an annoying scrub and hate advanced techs just because you can't (won't) do them. There is no good news in this case, and the bad news is that I dislike you on principle.

If you and your friends are all happy with your current skill levels, you will become casual players. The good news? You will remain happy, no one besides complete idiots will dislike you, and as far as the community is concerned, you are pretty cool in general. The only bad news is that you will forever remain unsuited for tournament play.

Which, in retrospect, means that you don't have to dish out your weekly earnings on transportation fees, food, and entrance fees for tournaments.

 

[Eternalfire]

If you intend to get better, you are currently a scrub. The good news is, if you go to tournaments, you will eventually graduate to a competitive player. If you ever do get that good though, beware, because some other scrub will probably be calling you a tourney*** because he sucks and you don't.

If you are happy with your current skill level and your friends get better, you are going to end up being an annoying scrub and hate advanced techs just because you can't (won't) do them. There is no good news in this case, and the bad news is that I dislike you on principle.

If you and your friends are all happy with your current skill levels, you will become casual players. The good news? You will remain happy, no one besides complete idiots will dislike you, and as far as the community is concerned, you are pretty cool in general. The only bad news is that you will forever remain unsuited for tournament play.

Which, in retrospect, means that you don't have to dish out your weekly earnings on transportation fees, food, and entrance fees for tournaments.

I would go with option #3. We are all happy with our skill levels, but we play every chance we get at my college. We switch off 1st and 2nd out with fresh meat before playing again. That makes it competitive since we don't want to give up our controller. That means that we have gotten better than the average joe as most of us know the advanced techniques.

 

[Jonkenden]

I think I stand closer towards being casual than pro, and I dont consider myself elitist. I just find the attitude of some people troubling, no matter what side of the fence they are.

The problem is probably that casuals haven't started up item tourneys, giving the item lovers somewhere to play competivitaly with items. While pro's reinforce their no item rules and keep their tourneys that way.

In short casual players are too casual to organise while pro players are too deep into their gamestyle to consider diverging.

And it seems that neither side that is having issues wants to consider comprimising, so yeh. I say most of this will be solved by a item tourney for casuals organized by them. Wich would build a bridge between the gamestyles and let both sides have what they want with no one getting crossed. Or atleast less people getting crossed.

And sorry for being so general but I hope the point comes through.

 

[Kazydai]

I don't like to competetive scence, because I hate taking video games seriously...seriously. O_o
Anyway, I don't like to play pros because of the wavedashing and stuff. Now you might be think, "Oh, you don't like it 'cause they whup ur @$$ with it." But that's not the point.

To me, wavedashing is a glitch, and a glitch is something that's not intended to be there, something that's not listed anywhere in the instruction manual. I mean, whyh do you think they took it out in Brawl? Wavedashing and some other techniques are just glitches that everyone agreed to be able to use.

I, for one, hate glitching. For anyone who's played Metroid Prime: Hunters online, you know what I'm talking about. But say everyone agreed to the Wall Glitch, of all of the Half Turret glitches? Every fight would be Combat Hall, Weavel only, No Affinity Weapons...sound familiar?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I don't like to competetive scence, because I hate taking video games seriously...seriously. O_o
Anyway, I don't like to play pros because of the wavedashing and stuff. Now you might be think, "Oh, you don't like it 'cause they whup ur @$$ with it." But that's not the point.

To me, wavedashing is a glitch, and a glitch is something that's not intended to be there, something that's not listed anywhere in the instruction manual. I mean, whyh do you think they took it out in Brawl? Wavedashing and some other techniques are just glitches that everyone agreed to be able to use.

I, for one, hate glitching. For anyone who's played Metroid Prime: Hunters online, you know what I'm talking about. But say everyone agreed to the Wall Glitch, of all of the Half Turret glitches? Every fight would be Combat Hall, Weavel only, No Affinity Weapons...sound familiar?

http://roabs.blogspot.com/2007/11/wavedash-is-not-glitch.html
http://roabs.blogspot.com/2007/11/creators-intent.html
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

That ought to keep you busy for a while. For most scrubs, any form of winning is a glitch.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Every fight would be Combat Hall, Weavel only, No Affinity Weapons...sound familiar?

if thats implying that stupid fox final d blah blah garbage i think you might need to look at the ACTUAL tournament scene a little bit closer

 

[Sliq]

I don't like to competetive scence, because I hate taking video games seriously...seriously. O_o
Anyway, I don't like to play pros because of the wavedashing and stuff. Now you might be think, "Oh, you don't like it 'cause they whup ur @$$ with it." But that's not the point.

To me, wavedashing is a glitch, and a glitch is something that's not intended to be there, something that's not listed anywhere in the instruction manual. I mean, whyh do you think they took it out in Brawl? Wavedashing and some other techniques are just glitches that everyone agreed to be able to use.

I, for one, hate glitching. For anyone who's played Metroid Prime: Hunters online, you know what I'm talking about. But say everyone agreed to the Wall Glitch, of all of the Half Turret glitches? Every fight would be Combat Hall, Weavel only, No Affinity Weapons...sound familiar?

As it turns out, no one cares about your OPINION.

 

[SinisterLizard]

I, for one, hate glitching. For anyone who's played Metroid Prime: Hunters online, you know what I'm talking about. But say everyone agreed to the Wall Glitch, of all of the Half Turret glitches? Every fight would be Combat Hall, Weavel only, No Affinity Weapons...sound familiar?

Mario Strikers Charged is like that with Waluigi. It's not a glitch, but it sure isn't fun to play online...

I don't think you can compare Smash to that, though.

 

[choknater]

I am a competitive elitist and I think I am better than you. So FireWater's right about something.

I am not a competitive elitist and I think I am better than YOU.