CASUAL ELITISTS vs COMPETITIVE ELITISTS!!!!

[Samochan]

It's funny when casual scrubs complain about techs an all... I can't do half the techs in this game cause I suck when it comes to those harder techniques, but I can still win against my friend who is more technical than me. And god knows how many times I mess up fox techs and I still can't do perfect waveshine to follow ups most of the time, whereas he can, but I have 4 stocked him in fox ditto couple of times already. And with only 1 shinespike to end the match for me. Albeit I main peach though, but lesser button inputs means more power for myself.

The reason I win most of the time is definitely not techniques, but experience that sets us apart. I've been on many tournaments thus far while he's been on only one. With experience there comes tactics, better reaction speed to different things, smarter and innovative play, all which have nothing to do with my ability to wavedash or shffle or dash dance. I doubt a casual player has the experience to stand up against a mediocre competitive player, regular casuals and scrubs and noobs alike due to being inexperienced. I used the term mediocre cause novice competitive players are still struggling with the transition from casual to competitive and don't really have that much more experience than casuals do. I've been known to own casual smashers simply by using dsmash with peach.

Technical ability definitely helps in this game, but skill =/= technical ability.

 

[Foxtorres]

Yes, there are good competitive players out there that don't wavedash. I think using it gives you more advantages as it gives you more options to move, as well as move faster in different situations.

Players who KNOW what they are doing is a different story. They know what to do, and when to do them. Even without wavedashing. A very good example is Masashi, and Aniki. They don't wavedash in battle, I'm not sure if they know how, but they are pro. Its the experience, knowledge, and mindgames that help win too.

I don't have much to say for either side though. Just play how you want, and have fun.

I personally think it does give you more options and better mind games for sure, thats why I use it... and no my friend may not be breaking any barriers but still, its a rare thing, and NO he is not upholding an "honor code" he just feels like its not for him even though he knows how to do it... I love how everybody has their own play style, I guess thats one of the perks that come with this game. Thanks everyone for taking the time to read my post earlier

 

[greenblob]

think Plato's Allegory of the Cave is applicable here.

 

[Shato]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QDJ00jWMRE
The difference.

 

[Kel]

YES I TOLD YOU GUYZ IT WER A GLITCHEZ! NOW U WI'LL Loose bcuz dats the rezon u wunn n u no it.

The REAL way the game is supposed to be played is by rolling around back and forth and then downsmashing on random stages with mario (high on noob tier list) until an item appears that you can throw.

 

[MetaNiGHTs]

Well I am a casual but I am not going to flame everyone in sight just because of wavedashing
I honestly don't care what anyone does with the game as long as I have fun playing it in my own unique way and others have fun I will be happy. So casuals rock and competetives rock.
Right now I am going to buy a bag of popcorn and sit down to watch you guys beat each other's brains out.

 

[Takeshi245]

Well I am a casual but I am not going to flame everyone in sight just because of wavedashing
I honestly don't care what anyone does with the game as long as I have fun playing it in my own unique way and others have fun I will be happy. So casuals rock and competetives rock.
Right now I am going to buy a bag of popcorn and sit down to watch you guys beat each other's brains out.

We're definitely going to beat eat other's brains out ON THE INTERNET. (sarcasm) At least your point makes sense and isn't ridiculous, unlike Shato's stupid video.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

think Plato's Allegory of the Cave is applicable here.

Are you sure that you aren't thinking of Nietzsche's stuff about Zarathustra? The hermit that lived in the cave?

Smooth Criminal

 

[SilverChaos]

I'm casual and I say To Each His Own.
Use your techs, I don't mind.

 

[Red Exodus]

My problem with the competitive half of the gaming spectrum is not the competitive community as a whole, but the ones who claim that those who are not of them automatically suck.
AlphaZealot.
Admittadly, I'm not as good as the majority of the competitive community. The only AT I can do well is wavedashing, and I don't doubt the fact there's many I haven't heard of.
And I know that statistically, 50% of us must be the "better half", and half of us must be the "worse half". But the competitive community is not even a half. IIRC, AZ himself said that the competitive community is only about 10% of all the Smashers. You can't say that the "scrubs" as you call us all suck without question. I can't remember the names of any pros right now, so bare with me here.
In this example:
Jimmy is a pro.
Johnny is a competitive player.
Joey is a casual player.

One day, Joey decides to enter a tournament just for the fun of it. In the tournament, Joey faces Johnny and gets his *** kicked.
Would this make you say Joey sucks? For AZ, it probably would.
Then Johnny enters another tournament and plays Jimmy. Johnny gets his *** kicked. Would you say Johnny sucks?
No. But why not? Some (AZ) would say Joey sucks, when the same thing that happened to him happened to Johnny.

What I'm saying is, while I couldn't beat a pro even if the pro was playing with 75% of his normal effort, but that doesn't mean I suck. To say I do suck, especially when you've never seen me play, is simply being overprotective of your "dominance".



And before anyone asks, no, I will never get over the topic AZ made.

Get the **** over it. It's the internet, it's not like your parents told you you suck, it's some guy on the internet and if you're going to hold such a ******** grudge you shouldn't use it.

Besides, AZ was right there is no scale of suckery so you can suck a little or suck a lot but it not always the same with different people.

I like competitive play, but 4 stock no items Final Destination matches get really boring. Where's the Party Ball Bob-omb surprise? Where's the Poké Ball pummeling? Where's the pause-the-game-at-funny-times? Where's the Temple-size fun?! Competition doesn't always have to be so dull. What's so wrong with throwing a little chance in? It makes everything more fun!

When you're playing for money you don't want a bomb-omb to win the game for your opponent. If you want random outcomes go play a lottery. Competitive matches test skill and the last thing anyone wants is to lose thousands of dollars to a random capsule landing on you at random times.

 

[BigRick]

Casual elitists vs competitive elitists...

Wow, a Melee player can be 1337 no matter what!!!

 

[Sliq]

(It's what I my friend Chris always uses. He's never been to a real tournament, but believe me, he'd rank at least in the top 20. I'm not exaggerating, he's that good.)

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Your friend Chris blows, and so do you.

 

[Bajef8]

The bigger question is this: what on earth is a "casual elitist"? O_O

something a casual player made up so they could act like they are still casual but "are very good at being casual"...? i agree, if a casual player says they are a casual elitist than they are just a competitive player... who probably sucks.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I recently played some items matches with a couple friends, and I ran into more bob-ombs than I thought possible. That's what I get for using Captain Falcon, I guess. In one match, I barely lost to one friend because I killed myself twice using down-airs on bob-ombs that appeared after I started the move. In other words, it was 100% beyond my control. In other words, I should have won with two stock remaining, but instead, I lost when my opponent finished me off with a capsule.

While I agree that items do add some depth to the game, the unfairness aspect makes them worthy of the ban hammer.

http://roabs.blogspot.com/ *plug*

 

[Red.]

the thread description owns..

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Hiss., so that's the root of the anti-randomness.

Cash-ola. Take that away and you might see tourneys change slightly (of course, that'll never happen. After all, there has to be SOME reward for the competitive player's hard work...)

 

[Kazydai]

I think that we can all get along, i just don't think that we could ever play together. I'm a casual, and bro's a comp. When we play together, you can clearly see the difference. I haven't won a fight in months...

 

[Kazydai]

Hiss., so that's the root of the anti-randomness.

Cash-ola. Take that away and you might see tourneys change slightly (of course, that'll never happen. After all, there has to be SOME reward for the competitive player's hard work...)

Pressing buttons? That's soooo hard...

Honestly, though, do you think that a casual could ever beat a comp. Pfftt, NO!

Checkmate.

 

[Super_alex2]

you're right gimpy. We seriously do need to remember that this IS a game, I think we all need to grow up a little, my self included.

 

[FireWater]

There is nothing wrong with taking a game and making it competitive, nor is there a problem and keeping it casual.

for the best results, it is often better to seperate the two sub-communities, usually one group does not like to play with the other and vice versa.

 

[geemann2236]

Lol, good post Gimpy. None of my friends are pro or even that good, so they accuse me of being obsessive over this game. Lol.

 

[blerb]

What makes me lol is the casuals that brag about playing the game for 6 years and refusing to believe that they're anything but casual.

that shouldn't matter. there isn't a timeline for games or something, because a lot of people play and play and never get better, and some people pick up the controller and are insane at the game.

 

[Sandwich]

Nice superbump, guys.

 

[pud22]

...and then i said "what do you mean llamas? I already ate dinner."

 

[volbound1700]

I think the debate comes down to what people consider experts and what people consider noobs. Both groups don't want to be seen as below the others in skill level.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I think the debate comes down to what people consider experts and what people consider noobs. Both groups don't want to be seen as below the others in skill level.

yeah, and the casual elitists are always REALLY UPSET about it, because its common knowledge any professional smasher can 3-4 stock you if you're not a pro smasher yourself.

Then there comes tournament style players like myself, who vs a tourney player of even slightly lower skill can destroy them for not having near perfection in techinques such as Smash DI.

Random hint : If you don't Smash DI properly, and you don't know what a quarter circle DI input is, then you haven't even begun playing high level smash.

Then comes tournament newbies, who from lack of experience are about the same skill level as casuals, sometimes worse than most casuals.

Casuals however, by definition, are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to who can win consistently and who can't. By DEFINITION they are casual smashers and they do not put near as much time into the game as someone more devoted.


Yet there are still... Casual Elitists? These people are just crying for attention for posting here, they're angsty about a tournament scene that doesn't even affect them, and they've likely never even competed in a smash tournament, probably another reason why they think they actually might know how to play the game at its highest level.

Casual elitists have been around since back in the day, but before only on youtube. The brawl section has become a breeding ground for em.

If you dont know what I mean, check out some KEN vids, watch his utterly flawless play style with marth, watch him destroy an amazing opponnet with his mindgames.

Then, look at the comments

Wow, ken had to resort to chaingrabbing
wow I could beat ken any day of the week
ken sucks, I like it when isai wins cuz hes the REAL pro

etc etc etc, I could give you 5 billion examples ive found over the years.


Casual elitists are ignorant, essentially, and they like to create a lot of E DRAMA over tournament rules, when I still cant see how private tournaments affect their lives or the way they play smashbros in any way shape or form.

 

[volbound1700]

I admit, compared to half this board I probably would be a newb. Funny thing is I have yet to meet a person that can beat me at Melee so I wonder where you guys hang out. A famous saying in my area is that if you win a lot at video games, then you are the real loser. People just don't look to big on video game playing where I am at.

 

[Red Exodus]

Sports are games, and they are played competitively. There's nothing wrong with playing seriously in anything.

It's really annoying to hear people get high and mighty when people play games seriously or for money. If people had that mentality there would be no Olympics, no sports on tv [like American football and soccer].

Anything can be competitive, you just need to open your mind and take the time to do it otherwise you'll be just another casual that had too much vanity and ego to do anything about it.

I don't have any shame, I wouldn't be afraid to say "I have no life" [this term is insanely stupid, it merely mocks people for being different]. When casuals say stuff like "You're a loser for taking a party game for kids so seriously" I don't pay them any attention because I just laugh at the fact people with "lives" are so concerned with people without "lives".

 

[WooICYU]

Jeeze, all this fustration, i can seem this thread escalating in due time

 

[sonic smash down]

It took 3 weeks to turn casual into competitive and I haven't even reach a year of experience yet... I turned my six year experienced casual friends into competitive players after me turning into a competitive player... Right now, they are dorming at a college and they are converting casuals over there into competitive players... All in all, you can't escape the fact that once you step into this board, you'll find yourself playing competitively than ever before...

got to agree with that ever since i started on the boards ive beaten all of my events and have been trying to get better non stop

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

After a 5 day vacation, this topic is BACK! Thanx, ssd!

This topic has been done to death both here and in other topics... but by all means, keep it going. I never get tired of it. Competition rules.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

this topic is better than the others because it was made by me lol

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

this topic is better than the others because it was made by me lol

Partially. Fortunately, I came along and injected it with coolness.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Partially. Fortunately, I came along and injected it with coolness.

agree' d

 

[Igneous42]

I have a question on this issue and rather than making a new thread I will say it here.

How is the pro melee community going to respond to the new pro's who weren't pro till brawl? Are they going to be viewed as n00bs because they didn't get good (or at least start competing) till brawl , or will they be glad for more competition?

 

[GhostAnime]

I'd be glad, personally.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

nobody who wasn't good at melee is going to instantly be good at brawl, intelligent gameplay made good players, not technical skill. techs wont transfer, but your brain should still work with brawl.

there will EVENTUALLY be new good players, but the melee "pros" are all going to realize when they play brawl that nobody is really that good at the game yet anyawys

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I have a question on this issue and rather than making a new thread I will say it here.

How is the pro melee community going to respond to the new pro's who weren't pro till brawl? Are they going to be viewed as n00bs because they didn't get good (or at least start competing) till brawl , or will they be glad for more competition?

I wouldn't worry about that. Anyone who wins in competitions will receive the respect they deserve. It doesn't matter if you started playing Melee yesterday. If you went to a tournament tomorrow and took 1st place out of 500 people, you would not be considered a noob.

 

[SeanW]

nobody who wasn't good at melee is going to instantly be good at brawl, intelligent gameplay made good players, not technical skill. techs wont transfer, but your brain should still work with brawl.

there will EVENTUALLY be new good players, but the melee "pros" are all going to realize when they play brawl that nobody is really that good at the game yet anyawys

So more or less EVERYONE will be at square one is what you're getting at. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[Thedude3445]

I don't get why people even fight. It's just the game, and if you do it the way you do it, fine, as long as you're having fun with Smash Bros. What I don't get is, why in the world did this fight start?