CASUAL ELITISTS vs COMPETITIVE ELITISTS!!!!

[TheBuzzSaw]

Execpt now, some casuals *coughmecough* will be able to keep up to date with a fresh start in adv. Techs, so now I can practice them along with the rest of the crowd and maybe play competitively.

Personally, I believe that is harder to do. I came way late into the Melee scene (fall 2005), but I learned all the advanced techniques super fast because they were all discovered and well documented. It'll be fun starting fresh with Brawl, but many techniques will be secret until either (1) the creator refines it and/or (2) someone finally documents it in easy-to-execute format.

 

[ꓰspeon]

Here's the difference between a Scrub and a Casual.

A Casual will look at an advanced technique and say, "Wow, hey that's pretty cool. How'd you do that?"
A Scrub will see the same AT and say, "ZOMG CHEAP you hacker you cheat I hate you!"

A Casual will lose to his opponent and say, "LOL that was a fun match. Wanna go again?"
A Scrub will lose to the same opponent and say, "ZOMG CHEAP you hacker you cheat I hate you!"

A Casual will hear about tactics and strategies and say, "Well that sounds cool, but I'm just don't take the game that seriously. But I'll tell you anything you wanna know about <insert unrelated subject here>."
A Scrub will hear about those same tactics ans strategies and say, "ZOMG CHEAP you hacker you cheat I hate you!"

Casuals are actually pretty nice, you see.
On the other hand, scrubs tend to annoy you to such a point that you wanna be cheap, hack the game, and cheat like crazy JUST to make them hate you.

That's the difference.

Hell I definitely came too late because I wanted to state the same thing.
THIS is the difference that distinguishes casuals from scrubs and, mind me, even good pros from bad competitives (i'm not saying anything like competitives are all bad, cause i'm one of them too )

All of us started playing fighting games (in particular, SSBM) like a casual, but there was something that differenciated the ones who went on and improved from those who stayed in the first category. Of course, some factors are having a lot of people around to play with and with the will-to-improve mindset, having a lot of tournament organized around, etc. but all of this won't just work if you don't look at the game the right way.

The are people who know there is someone better than him, and that is because they put more effort in practicing and/or are gifted, or whatever, and know they can reach a stage somewhere around competitive gaming by practicing new techniques, listening to other's advices and not letting someone take him down with the "playing for fun" theory.
Now there are other people with another mindset, that think the game was for 4-player ffa so it must be played only this way and/or the new techniques weren't intended by Nintendo so they are cheap and should never be used and/or items are there to be used all the time and/or other stuff you can easily imagine. The point is, this way they are only creating walls around themselves, stating their way to play is the best, if not the only real way to play the game, taking away from themselves all possibilities of improving and johning about someone doing something cheap because "omg i sayed this technique is broken so why are you still doing it????!!", even if it's not the point. Pros (and i'm talking about real pros) can play one handed, without WD, shffle and advanced techniques alike and still beat most people who uses them. So why is it? If you repair a car by hitting once the engine with a monkey wrench, i bet some scrubs will post here "omg monkey wrench is cheap and should be banned already", but everyone else knows it was not the monkey wrench itself, it was where you delivered the hit. It's not knowing advanced techniques that makes the real difference, it's just about how, where and when you use them.

And that's why there are scrubs even in the competitive category.Some people have misunderstood the advanced techniques praises, thinking that if you know them, you are a pro by default. This way they practice wd and shffl all the time without thinking of their real uses and when they lose (because they will) to some casual player that just plays smarter, they will say "omg you managed to be cheaper than someone that uses advanced techs because you don't use them, casual players are scrubs that somehow i can't manage to beat and should be banned from the surface of Earth" (well they won't actually say anything like that, but these are their contradictions in a nutshell)
And that's where all fights come from. (well, some topics are about pros defending competitive playing, but shortly after there is always some competitive scrub that comes over and starts flaming casual players, balancing the two parts flame-wise)
That's how i see it. P.S. Paingel i <3 you. in a non-omosexual way.

 

[CrenTIScO]

Fantastic job with the summary, AustinP.

Though I can't help but think that someone somewhere is saying, "OMFG logical explanations r so cheap BAN LOGIC!"

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookiez
Sorry, pet peeve.

"y'all" or "you all" is a redundancy because the word "you" is already plural.

No it's not.

It was at one point, but only silly people use it thus.

It is actually both singular and plural, depending on the context.

SINGLE: I will get you a candy bar.

PLURAL: You are my friends.

Fantastic job with the summary, AustinP.

Though I can't help but think that someone somewhere is saying, "OMFG logical explanations r so cheap BAN LOGIC!"

You know, that's more true than you know.

I'm seeing a little bit of it here... People sometimes post hugely thought out long posts about something, so people think "Oh they explained alot, it must be true", when really it's just a **** load of BS or failing logic.

There is much failing logic.

 

[CrenTIScO]

I'm seeing a little bit of it here... People sometimes post hugely thought out long posts about something, so people think "Oh they explained alot, it must be true", when really it's just a **** load of BS or failing logic.

There is much failing logic.

Except in this case, I noticed more than a mass quantity of text, I read what he had to say, which turned out to be a very thorough and reasonable explanation.

 

[ꓰspeon]

You know, that's more true than you know.

I'm seeing a little bit of it here... People sometimes post hugely thought out long posts about something, so people think "Oh they explained alot, it must be true", when really it's just a **** load of BS or failing logic.

There is much failing logic.

Then i would like you to at least write a long post well done or comment where my logic is failing. Thanks.

 

[messiahfreak2000]

for any one who noticed,the back of the melee manual specifically states:

"Can you think of other ways to play??"

thus implying more than one way to play.

 

[ꓰspeon]

for any one who noticed,the back of the melee manual specifically states:

"Can you think of other ways to play??"

thus implying more than one way to play.

I bet there wasn't the need for the instruction manual for us to know that.

 

[messiahfreak2000]

I bet there wasn't the need for the instruction manual for us to know that.

exactly. just good to have things in writing

 

[masterbraz]

no. I want to feel superior, because the way i think has to be right.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

smash is not a figthing game
so people should be able to play however the **** they want

 

[Red Exodus]

Then let competitive players play it how they want.

You are a hypocrite if you think people should not play smash competitively. It would go against you code of "being able to play however the **** they want".

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

smash is not a figthing game
so people should be able to play however the **** they want

If Smash is not a fighting game, then Metroid Prime is not a first-person shooter.

 

[True Fool]

"That stage is banned. This stage is not."
"Wavedashing is just a stupid glitch you freaks exploit!"
"Lol, I don't care if I think he's a lame character, he's f*cking top-tier!"
"The game was designed to be played with four players, items on! You're playing it WRONG.

 

[SiD]

Gimpyfish = epic win.

(That's right, I didn't capitalize the f because i have great respect for him)

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Gimpyfish = epic win.

(That's right, I didn't capitalize the f because i have great respect for him)

i appreciate that SiD

 

[SiD]

lol, anytime man.

 

[Superstarmario]

If Smash is not a fighting game, then Metroid Prime is not a first-person shooter.

Metriod Prime isn't a first person shooter, for the last fuggin time. After how many years? Five? Six? And people still think this?

 

[ꓰspeon]

Metriod Prime isn't a first person shooter, for the last fuggin time. After how many years? Five? Six? And people still think this?

Geez, people are always jumping to the conclusions like that. They almost sound pathetic. (lol)

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Metriod Prime isn't a first person shooter, for the last fuggin time. After how many years? Five? Six? And people still think this?

It depends on how you look at it. I agree that it should not be classified as FPS. However, if you travel to any other forum, they will flame you to no end because technically it is first-person (no denying that), and it is a shooter (debatable... but you do shoot a lot).

But I'm confused as to why Smash is not a fighter. Who on earth sets these standards? O_O

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Didnt you hear buzz? Smash is a ''Party'' game. Its supposed to be easy and the only reason we managed to turn it into a competitive fighter was due to wavedashing.

Whatever, now that its not in brawl, all the people who were playing smash the way it was supposed to be played (by following the how to play in the instructions manual) are gonna OWN us in brawl!

...

Sad sad people. And they actually believe it too.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It baffles me how people think categories are mutually exclusive. Can Smash not be a party fighter?

 

[Rash]

It baffles me how people think categories are mutually exclusive. Can Smash not be a party fighter?

Exactly. Party fighter, casual brawler, whatever. The game has always been and will always be a mixing of categories, and it's never suffered for it.

 

[Igneous42]

Didnt you hear buzz? Smash is a ''Party'' game. Its supposed to be easy and the only reason we managed to turn it into a competitive fighter was due to wavedashing.

Whatever, now that its not in brawl, all the people who were playing smash the way it was supposed to be played (by following the how to play in the instructions manual) are gonna OWN us in brawl!

...

Sad sad people. And they actually believe it too.

Hell I'm a casual and I still hate how they teach you to play in how to play. The CPU's do that. Spam their basic a over and over and over and over. Not that it's like hard to overcome it's just annoying

 

[Rash]

What ticks me off is not the attitudes of the competitive players with previous Smash games, it's their attitudes with Brawl. Believe it or not, there are competitive players, elitists, and competitive elitists out there that want Brawl to be a repetition of Melee and want to just pick up the game, have no problem adjusting, and just start pwning lesser players online and whatnot. When they hear that some "advanced techniques" are suddenly not in the game (based on a demo, BTW), and without even thinking about how different the game will play from its predecessors anyway, they start complaining, and start begging the fellow Smash community to join them in some form of protest. This, to me, is just not a favorable approach, and I look down upon it not just as a casual Smash player, but as a gamer in general.

 

[MookieRah]

I don't understand why anyone would be upset that a group of people take a game they are passionate about and go ape**** insane with it and create a tournament scene. Everyone seems to be missing one of the founding principles here, it's that everyone here ****ING loves these games. It shouldn't matter how we go about playing it, but you shouldn't expect each other to bend to your way just because you feel it should be done one way or another.

To the casuals: You guys need to give the competitive scene credit. It has evolved into one of the largest game communities out there. You may oppose their methods, but you shouldn't look down on us for playing to win, that's just a part of any competitive event.

To the competitive players: Stop tossing the word scrub and noob unless it's valid. Far too often do I see people flame someone simply for talking about something within the casual realm of play.

@Rash:
I've been in both camps on this issue. Before the E for All info I was all about keeping most of the melee aspects around in Brawl (not the exact same thing, but not making huge changes) but after hearing what I've heard I'm quite pleased.

The thing is, you assume they are upset cause they don't want to have to learn to adjust, that for the most part isn't true (there probably are some like that though). The thing is that melee was a great game with great depth and we all love it. They probably feel that the changes would make the game shallower overall, or just not be as good of a sequel in general. I hear a lot of stuff about it being dumbed down, but a lot of it makes sense given the info we have on the game.

Here are some logical explanations for those of you who are against how Brawl is looking:
Tether Recovery: Airdodging no longer stops your momentum in the air anymore, and thusly it would make sweetspotting legdes with the hookshot/grapple beam much more difficult. The tournament scene would be fine with it being hard, but everyone else would lose out, so Nintendo had it auto aim.

Slower Gameplay: As gimpy has said in his other thread the game seemed slower at first, but for the most part that is just the effects of everyone being floatier and slower in the air. This was done to make use of the new air dodge and to make the game more aerial oriented. Another thing to mention is that the game will get faster once we master all the stuff in Brawl.

The new L-cancel: This to me tips me off that Nintendo was fully aware of shffl'ing in melee. Considering the variety of control schemes they probably opted to remove the need to actually press L/R when landing. This is also why they adjusted the standing A combos to where you just have to hold it down to perform them.

There are other things too, but you should start to get an idea of why the changes were made. It's not just Nintendo dumbing it down and making things easier, they have legit reasons. Instead of being upset at how things have changed for the worse, why not think about all the potential uses of the new air-dodge? It's gonna be insane to give yourself invicibility frames and what not in the air without it making you dead weight in the air. That ALONE is enough to get me excited. Not to mention how amazingly beautiful the game is, how most of the lower end characters have been raised a bar or two, and how awesome and unique the new characters are.

Brawl is going to be freaking sweet, so lets not get riled up just cause it's not Melee 2.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

To the casuals: You guys need to give the competitive scene credit. It has evolved into one of the largest game communities out there. You may oppose their methods, but you shouldn't look down on us for playing to win, that's just a part of any competitive event.

To the competitive players: Stop tossing the word scrub and noob unless it's valid. Far too often do I see people flame someone simply for talking about something within the casual realm of play.

I said essentially the same thing a few pages back (almost word-for-word). In other words, QFT!

 

[MookieRah]

CASUAL SMASHERS: Stop telling people how to play the game. Stop defining "fun" for other people. Stop preaching about creators' intent. Just play the game how you want to. If you have an opinion on how the game "should" be played, a competitive smash forum is not the best place for it.

COMPETITIVE SMASHERS: Stop telling people how to play the game. It is OK for players to dislike advanced techniques. Stop throwing around terms like "noob", "scrub", etc. There are players out there who know advanced techniques yet oppose them.

****z, that's kinda spooky Buzz. QFT as well!

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

****z, that's kinda spooky Buzz. QFT as well!

Great minds think alike.

 

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

The term "party game" is a horrible one indeed. Games in general are used at parties so there would be no correct classiification on how to play a "gaTme". Is smashbros a party game because its from nintendo and their supposed to be kid friendly and fun? What about sony? What about microsoft? You should never tell anyone how they should play a game that was produced for pure uninhibited fun. And this debate is not fun it's kinda pointless. Do you really think sakurai meant for these games to have a pseudo controversial theme(s) as to where someone should play it,who should play it and how they should play it?

 

[Tyrael64]

If Smash is not a fighting game, then Metroid Prime is not a first-person shooter.

Well, that's mainly because it isn't a first-person shooter. It's a first-person adventure.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Well, that's mainly because it isn't a first-person shooter. It's a first-person adventure.

I agree. I do not dispute that. Just tell it to the rest of the world. They have a hard time grasping that.

 

[MookieRah]

I was under the impression that it was a first-person awesome.

The genre debate over smash is soooooo incredibly stupid. Given that they gave us the ability to customize how we play the game it's foolish to say that it's meant to be this or that. It doesn't matter what it's genre is, it doesn't change the actual game! Lets just play it and be happy! It is really that simple folks.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I was under the impression that it was a first-person awesome.

The genre debate over smash is soooooo incredibly stupid. Given that they gave us the ability to customize how we play the game it's foolish to say that it's meant to be this or that. It doesn't matter what it's genre is, it doesn't change the actual game! Lets just play it and be happy! It is really that simple folks.

It matters a lot! If smash is a fighting game, I tend to use more dash attacks. If smash is a party game, I tend to grab more.

 

[SiD]

One of these days I'm gonna throw a huge party, and invite everyone, and they're all gonna come over with their 6 packs and illegal substances, and be like "Alright party!", then I'm gonna whip out the Gamecube and be all "You guys brought your controllers right?"

 

[LavisFiend]

One of these days I'm gonna throw a huge party, and invite everyone, and they're all gonna come over with their 6 packs and illegal substances, and be like "Alright party!", then I'm gonna whip out the Gamecube and be all "You guys brought your controllers right?"

And then the guy with the lampshade on his head would be all like, "PUT ITEMS ON!" and everyone would be like, "NO," and he will be like, "IT'Z HOW DA GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED!"

 

[Wazygoose]

My theory about how this whole thing got started is:

My friends and I go to a mutual friend's house and we play Smash, and then another guy we don't know comes over, a friend-of-a-friend... a guy that may or may not have played Smash in some tournaments. Then this dude picks Pichu and spams his Down-B move on that lone platform on whatever level that is with a gigantic Metriod boss that spins the stage, you know what I'm talking about. So we try to "get him," and he leaves us stuck on the platform when it's at the bottom by spaming his neutral-B move that follows the curve of the stage, summarily killing us. He think it's hilarious.

Whatever, that stage is lame anyway.

So then the guy picks Final Destination and turns off items because it's how he likes to play, even though the rest of us like lots of items. Shorty thereafter, he totally murders us even though we obviously are not as good as he is; he does so by using Jigglypuff's Down-B and Over-B moves exclusively. And he thinks it's hilarious.

So we stop playing and he gets offended, and we get offended that he's offended, and that's that.

I said all that to say this: basically, I think all casual players just came across a single, lone friend-of-a-friend who claimed he was being competitive, when really, he was just plain inconsiderate. So casual people remember that when they come onto boards and totally egg guys that say they are competitive, whether they're considerate or not. Then competitive people get offended and egg back. Sometimes people are not very nice when they complain about the other group.

And that's my theory on why people message-board-argue on this site. That and they're bitter. The end.

 

[Dark_Ermac]

Items can be fun, but I usually play with them off. Pure-luck wins suck, especially if you're fighting against someone who button mashes.

 

[Darkurai]

lol seriously i dont understand how many of you can be SO harsh to the other side, play the game how you want and have fun doing it. competitive players have fun playing competitively, casual players have fun playing matches with their friends w/o anything on the line.

Stop being ridiculous everyone.

the fact that somebody doesn't bother learning how to l cancel doesn't make them a bad human being, just like the fact that soembody wavedashes doesn't make them a bad human being.

basically...

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!

Go talk some sense into AZ. Now.

 

[Bassoonist]

I have to admit I've seen a lot of Competitive Elitism around here. I think it's mainly due in part that they get attacked so much, but they need to realize that not all Casuals are like those idiots that come around here and insult competitive smash. I'm a casual and I don't insult competitive play, and I certainly don't care what anybody does with the game. It's their game, they can play it how they like!

Still I've seen a lot of insults to Casual players as a whole that I don't appreciate. Like "Casual's are all n00bs!", "Competitive play is the only way to play!" The last one I don't see as often, but the first one I've seen a whole lot. I've been playing Super Smash Bros. since 1999/2000 (can't quite remember when I first got into it, but it was close to it's release.) and I play and enjoy the games a lot. I also don't go around saying I'm the best, because I know I'm not. I don't why the hell I'm a n00b.