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JBM falcon08

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
4,374
Location
glenwood iowa
Sveet is correct.

Sheik vs marth isn't bad if sheik approaches.

Sheik vs marth is hard when she doesn't approach. not an understatement in the least.

Brightside the only reason why i even play fox is for people who camp my Marth. Camping is legit but if a sheik is gonna camp me get ready to cp fox rainbow cruise autowin.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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I'm a marth main through and through. IDK if a sheik camps me, i have more confidence in my marth than my fox. Fox feels like a gamble for me because his spacing is slightly too fast paced; i like a slower pace when i'm under pressure/nervous

If marth plays *PERFECT* the match-up is even. Otherwise its **** for sheik.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
Sheik's needles eliminate dash dance camping. >_<

Also, it's harder to hit her on platforms than you might think. Her fast run off bair, drop through fair, and run off turnaround needle options can get around Marth's sword if executed correctly.
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
Sheik's needles eliminate dash dance camping. >_<

Also, it's harder to hit her on platforms than you might think. Her fast run off bair, drop through fair, and run off turnaround needle options can get around Marth's sword if executed correctly.
Yes about platforms. However, dash dance camping is not a real tactic in Melee in general so getting needled doesn't matter. Like against Falco, tho the projectile is annoying and obstructive, you can still dash away pivot grab a lot. It's still worthwhile to dash, you just have to get used to reacting to the projectile if they don't take the bait and approach.

I'd rather have sheik jump on a platform above me than sheik jump above me with no platform
I mean, come on now, this makes utterly no sense. She has tons more options with platforms as explained by Chival. A sheik above you with no platform is a big opportunity to do a lot of damage and possibly death combo.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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what? how can a sheik do a death combo to a marth automatically from standing above him? THAT doesn't make any sense.
 

Eon the Wolf

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
647
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Grove City, Ohio
NNID
Ethinial
I think Niko meant if the SHEIK was above a MARTH with no platform in between, the MARTH could possibly death combo, or at least do a ton of damage, to the SHEIK....
I think :/.....lol
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Yea i mis read.

IDK, platforms are so good for marth. Its not like vs fox/falco where you can keep them up in the air for a whole stock, sheik can still do some stuff when she is above you. As long as you use the platforms well (not letting her escape simply by teching) they are much more reliable combo hits than throwing her up and hoping she wastes her jump instead of just DIing and waiting for it to end.
 

Phoenix~Lament

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
520
Location
UCSD
How do you edgeguard a sheik?

I only know to stay on the ledge to force her to up+b onto the stage, and then get up and downthrow her back. Is grabbing her the best option? And is there more I can do while I'm on the ledge?

Also, is yoshi's story a good cp against falco?
 

Oxymoron Man

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
32
Location
En Angleterre, bien que je parle en francais ici.
How do you edgeguard a sheik?

I only know to stay on the ledge to force her to up+b onto the stage, and then get up and downthrow her back. Is grabbing her the best option? And is there more I can do while I'm on the ledge?

Also, is yoshi's story a good cp against falco?
Yoshi's story is kinda a good cp against falco because you have your amazing aerials but he has his pillaring in which he can use the platforms to his advantage. But normally Marth does better with platforms around him. It makes tech chasing sexier and easier.
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,022
Location
Southampton, UK
How do you edgeguard a sheik?

I only know to stay on the ledge to force her to up+b onto the stage, and then get up and downthrow her back. Is grabbing her the best option? And is there more I can do while I'm on the ledge?

Also, is yoshi's story a good cp against falco?


try a ledge-hop D-air or u-air depending on percents to pop her up for F-smash,



and yes, marth ***** on yoshis
 

Fortress | Sveet

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How do you edgeguard a sheik?

I only know to stay on the ledge to force her to up+b onto the stage, and then get up and downthrow her back. Is grabbing her the best option? And is there more I can do while I'm on the ledge?

Also, is yoshi's story a good cp against falco?
Something i've been working on is a technique i remember azen (and probably ken) using back in 06 to edge guard sheiks.

Ledge hop for invincibility and use ledgehop reverse nairs to hit her away when she teleports from far. You also do ledgehop nair if she is very close and is crossing over you early in her jump/upb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRf0HAwoTUQ#t=26s
 

TK1991

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
47
Location
Germany
Can someone please tell me how to moonwalk with Marth.

And if there is any use of it.

I know it's not very usefull but i just would like to learn it. And perhaps there is a use i don't know.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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The potential uses are only limited by your imagination.

To do it, start the walking animation in the direction you want to travel. Then do a normal moon walk action in the opposite directiong.

ex. you want to moonwalk right. Walk right, press left down right quickly
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
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The Wash: Lake City
The potential uses are only limited by your imagination.

To do it, start the walking animation in the direction you want to travel. Then do a normal moon walk action in the opposite directiong.

ex. you want to moonwalk right. Walk right, press left down right quickly
It typically works better if you let marth get to his full speed amble. You just get more distance.
 

Oxymoron Man

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
32
Location
En Angleterre, bien que je parle en francais ici.
I need help with Marth's chain grab.
Only works on fast-fallers or peeps with bad DI. Follow where the opponent DIs after an upthrow and JC grab them. If they DI far away from you, dash and JC grab. If they DI a little near and behind you, dash dance and JC grab so you can accurately place your grab. If they end up in front of you remember that marth's grab range is amazing so simply re-grab them. This works well, if mastered, on Fox but requires a lot of observance and practice. I believe the f-throw to f-throw chain grab still lives but in professional play it's not relied on because one can DI away after the first f-throw.
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
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May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
Only works on fast-fallers or peeps with bad DI. Follow where the opponent DIs after an upthrow and JC grab them. If they DI far away from you, dash and JC grab. If they DI a little near and behind you, dash dance and JC grab so you can accurately place your grab. If they end up in front of you remember that marth's grab range is amazing so simply re-grab them. This works well, if mastered, on Fox but requires a lot of observance and practice. I believe the f-throw to f-throw chain grab still lives but in professional play it's not relied on because one can DI away after the first f-throw.
if the spacie expects an up throw, then it is probably best if he DIs in so that he will land behind the marth and it will be harder or impossible (with falco at lowest percents) to regrab. But if the marth expects this DI, then f-throw>regrab is guaranteed. am i wrong? Its a mixup that hasnt phased out of competitive play. but i do think its important to know that fox can be regrabbed with u-throw regardless of percent
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
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I need help with Marth's chain grab.
mew2king made a post somewhere in this thread (or another marth thread) with exact percents on what works to what percent with what DI.

it took me all of like two days to become straight up homo with my chaingrabbing

axe hates me now
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
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These are the %s you don't have to move to do CGs with Marth vs Fox
0-16 Forward DI (sometimes 16 will miss though, but I think usually you will get them)
0-20 no DI (sometimes you will get them at 20 or 21 or so but the soonest you can miss is 20)
0-28 back DI

for up tilt vs Fox without needing to move
0-35 Forward DI (sometimes you will miss at 35 though, I've even had phantom hit bull**** before, but after 35 you need to walk forward no matter what. I think walk forward up tilt works to like 50 something?)
no DI the lowest you can up throw up tilt to knock them UP is like 23 I think that's unrelated though kinda, although honestly I usually do it at about 27/28+ (by the way vs Fox I usually do reverse up tilt because it seems better and it's harder to DI out of assuming they don't DI because you can still dash grab them even if they DI it, while if you did normal up tilt after not DIing up throw all the Fox has to do is DI behind Marth and he can land and tech before Marth can grab him)
0-50 back DI


for Falco
0-15??? (I know it's around like 13-16 or something idk, it's actually the same or less than Fox) Forward DI
0-25 no DI
0-31 back DI

for up tilt vs Falco
0-42 Forward DI
not sure for the no DI thing (unrelated thing see the Fox note above) I think it's like 30 something + but again this isn't exactly related to the "don't need to move" thing but more like a "don't need to move until it knocks them over on the ground instead of just completely missing" type of thing
0-54 back DI

up throw tipper F smash works on Fox at like low mid 40s + IIRC, and lasts up to as long as like 80% or so maybe even 90 if you don't DI. The easiest average % you are looking for vs Fox is 60%, although it works before and after that by about 15/20% obviously. Up throw take a baby step forward and then if they don't DI you reverse tipper F smash, then C stick if they decide to DI the up throw. The more you do this the better you will get at the timing and understanding, I just gave you a basic guideline. Falco is similar but add the %s a little higher by like 5 or 10% prolly closer to 5 (that's just a random guess) and there you have it.

Also you see my vid vs Shiz where I tried to do up throw Fair to Bair to F throw to Dair (that works I tested it on computers but I know a human would DI in the F throw lol, or I could just F smash tipper) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-diM94E8A&feature=channel_page at 1:02 it begins. Well, I made that up recently but my mistake was wavedashing before the grab - I should have just done a dash grab then F throw dair (or F throw F smash or F Throw down tilt to edge hog then bair).

ANOTHER Mistake at that vid at that same time is after he did the tech roll, I could have gotten him with a dash JC grab behind me before he would be able to shine or dodge, but I suck and got stuck in my turning around animation

--

you can't up throw Falco at 0% if he DIs behind you. He will always land. On the flip side if he DIs forward you can get him at 0% with a standing regrab, but it's the opposite for Marth's forward throw. F Throw regrab works if he DIs in but with away DI Falco can escape. Lol it's kind of a guessing game. I usually down throw at 0, or whatever direction the edge is, then down tilt it.

with no DI they can't escape till like 80%+ lol. Probably more. Once they get to like 70% + just do SH uair a few times. At like 90 do up throw (let them DI) then go for Fair + Dair (if they are smart they will not DI the Fair or DI away)

also near the edge down throw to dash-off-stage Dair actually combos at mid/high % if they DI in xD
for reference. very helpful.
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
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May 1, 2007
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**** Triangle, NC
for reference. very helpful.
very helpful, as in, u have to know this **** especially on fd. if a fox says its gay, then tell him its the only way u can keep up with him in percent. Fox can get, like, 60% off of one grab and kill u with one or two good reads. u should be able to match that.
 

Strong Badam

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the cg's and gimps that marth can do on fox make the match-up even
i don't see how Foxes can complain about it at all. they can ban FD and with stage striking they don't have to ever play on FD or Yoshi's first game.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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the cg's and gimps that marth can do on fox make the match-up even
i don't see how Foxes can complain about it at all. they can ban FD and with stage striking they don't have to ever play on FD or Yoshi's first game.
yeah but there is still BF and FoD
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
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AZ
i don't see how foxes can complain about anything at all

their worst matchup is like, arguably 45/55 (falco)

their second worst matchup (marth) is even

is any of this wrong?
 

Fortress | Sveet

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fox has even match-ups with them until you play someone who is better than you, then all his matchups become 99-1 because you get ****ed up so bad
 

strawhats

Smash Master
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Feb 19, 2009
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Bronx
no Cosmo...dont lose hope in marth...I was watching you play marth at Eighteenspike's tourney the other day...it's not too bad. Why do you down smash all the time I know its one of marth's quickest moves but itdoesnt really seem to be that effective.
 

MarthPwnzer-

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
199
The marth fox match-up is not even close to being even. Marth ****s over fox so well if played correctly. If you get one grab you automatically have 60 percent on fox. After that you can combo this **** out of fox and **** his recovery.
 

TK1991

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
47
Location
Germany
The marth fox match-up is not even close to being even. Marth ****s over fox so well if played correctly. If you get one grab you automatically have 60 percent on fox. After that you can combo this **** out of fox and **** his recovery.
You have never played my friends Fox.

You know, not only Marth can be played correctly, fox can be played even better.

Fox: Grab -> Upthrow-> 2-3Upairs

I don't think this Matchup is in favor for fox nor for marth. It's even or almost even depending on the stage.
 

Bob Money

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Nov 6, 2004
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Concord
I'm no expert, but playing marth at a high lvl tourny is an endurance race. It is very hard to have consistent combos or set ups vs great players. Marth players now , don't have ''gimme combos'' vs good players where most characters have explicit ones to rely on (Falco Fox shiek, yes peaches down smash is a combo/set up thingy Jiggly has rest/rest combos/setups ) playing marth means you must outplay/out think your opponent alot. which is tough to do , not many marths besides M2K can get top 5 at a national. Sure ppl say marth is easy to play..play him in tourny vs Smart players and you quickly realize how difficult it is. I'm not saying marth sucks..but his placement on the tier list was estimated from phenoms (Ken and M2K and azen). I think thats why Marth mains love marth
..you can either make your opponent look stupid or they can do it for you, or both.

Just my 2 cents
 

Devil Ray

Smash Lord
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Seoul, South Korea
I'm no expert, but playing marth at a high lvl tourny is an endurance race. It is very hard to have consistent combos or set ups vs great players. Marth players now , don't have ''gimme combos'' vs good players where most characters have explicit ones to rely on (Falco Fox shiek, yes peaches down smash is a combo/set up thingy Jiggly has rest/rest combos/setups ) playing marth means you must outplay/out think your opponent alot. which is tough to do , not many marths besides M2K can get top 5 at a national. Sure ppl say marth is easy to play..play him in tourny vs Smart players and you quickly realize how difficult it is. I'm not saying marth sucks..but his placement on the tier list was estimated from phenoms (Ken and M2K and azen). I think thats why Marth mains love marth
..you can either make your opponent look stupid or they can do it for you, or both.

Just my 2 cents
YO, THIS DUDE SPEAKS THE TRUTH. quote for emphasissssssssssssssssssssss
 
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