Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[KirbyKaze]

Japes vs Sheik as Marth is as much fun as stabbing your **** with a sharp piece of glass a bunch of times.

 

[Stratford]

I'd also say Marth has a disadvantage in recovery on Japes, because he can't come from as far below.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Jungle Japes seems awesome for Marth.

To elaborate:

High Ceiling/Close Blast Zones = perfect for marth. This will allow Marth to live 10/20% longer against characters that KO him over the top, whilst still retaining most of his killing power (utilt gets nerfed by that same 10/20%) This makes it a viable choice versus most of the high/top tier characters.

Because of the water, edgeguarding seems like it could possibly be easier. Especially against fast fallers. Additionally, since Marth is light, and floaty, The water should ideally affect Marth less than, and even possibly help with recovery mind games by going to the other edges.

Marth has enough range to deal with side camping spacies without having to commit himself fully to chasing them.

Probably some other things, but these come to mind.

lol, I laughed at this until I found out he was serious.

japes sucks. you cant even really sweet spot the legde which is crucial in holding stocks for marth.

either you get swept up and miss or you die trying to time it right.

 

[RestInPeace]

I'm still new to Marth, and I want to know Marth vs Falcon. How does this work?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Stay grounded, don't get hit, dashdance camp the edge and don't mess up your edgeguards.

Techchase and counterpicking on Fountain never hurt.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I'm still new to Marth, and I want to know Marth vs Falcon. How does this work?

Try not to get grabbed.

I look at it as falcon is a boxer/ufc fighter and marth is a longswordsman lol(go figure)

Dont let him inside of you and he cant do any damage.

When you approach make sure you stay out of his grab range and pretty much just fair grab and Fsmash when hes airborn.

its a good balance of spacing and combo

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Dont let him inside of you and he cant do any damage.

Finally, a real application for this useless website. Innuendo, anyone?

 

[DJMirror]

Jungle Japes seems awesome for Marth.

To elaborate:

High Ceiling/Close Blast Zones = perfect for marth. This will allow Marth to live 10/20% longer against characters that KO him over the top, whilst still retaining most of his killing power (utilt gets nerfed by that same 10/20%) This makes it a viable choice versus most of the high/top tier characters.

Because of the water, edgeguarding seems like it could possibly be easier. Especially against fast fallers. Additionally, since Marth is light, and floaty, The water should ideally affect Marth less than, and even possibly help with recovery mind games by going to the other edges.

Marth has enough range to deal with side camping spacies without having to commit himself fully to chasing them.

Probably some other things, but these come to mind.

I can't believe you said this!


if someone take me to this stage, i just camp in the center of the stage and do the following options:

A) throw them off the edge and edgeguard them to the best of my ability

B) throw them up on the platform and do as much damage as I can with uptilt cuz marth grabs and uptilt is amazing

I believe marth can control the space in the center of the stage easily

if they are just shooting lasers, i just duck under them

if they are just using side b, i'll just jab them out of it, grab and do as much damage as i can out of it and camp them or try to gimp them off stage.

for some reason, i shouldn't post something like this cuz i only been playing for a year and going to tournament for 8 months =/

 

[Rubyiris]

japes is bad for marth. anyone with a projectile will camp you. if you didnt notice, there is a gap between the middle and the sides that makes it really hard for marth to simply swat them.

and assume somehow you stop them from camping and get them in a combo in the middle platfrom, you think you can do that? nah, your sword can't cover the whole thing so they can just DI full one way and then tech out of your range.

and since when does marth like tall ceilings? two of marth's kill moves are upward kill moves.

The blast zones are close together which is good for Marth. High ceiling helps him live longer versus characters with good vertical killing power.

Marth has a big *** ****, so he can swat at people trying to camp.

People in Melee suck at camping. I'm not worried about it being supposedly bad for Marth. Furthermore, since I have experience on the stage, that's an added plus against would-be fox/falcos who attempt to take me there.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

TODAY IS CAPSLOCK DAY AND I MADE A STUPID POST-Sveet

 

[Kira-]

@ ruby

pretty smart

i have to agree


but i hate that stage and i dont play marth so i'll never use it lol

against sheik it doesn't seem to be much of an advantage, but fox/falco/falcon could definitely have trouble here. Possibly samus too? But a lot of it is going to depend on how well you can get around their camping. If you can get around it, then yes all the things advantages you stated would hold true, but if you can't then it nullifies anything beneficial the stage might have for you

 

[pockyD]

marth's mostly vertical recovery has problems with precision on japes

and yeah i don't see how you get around a solid projectile camp game

 

[ArcNatural]

marth's mostly vertical recovery has problems with precision on japes

and yeah i don't see how you get around a solid projectile camp game

I really don't understand this because, honestly, you can just duck them. The only top tier that has a projectile that could possibly hit you is Peach.

There are stalling issues at play here because of that. Just shooting lasers in the general direction of someone but not able to hit them makes it stalling imo. Same as if Marth doesn't approach. So it's iffy right there.

 

[ZoSo]

Japes gives Sheik more options with her recovery which makes it a lot harder for Marth to get kills. He can't control the center platform as easily because of how high and wide it is and, while you can technically tipper people from below it, the spacing is really specific. The blastlines aren't really advantageous for Marth; Sheik doesn't exactly have problems killing out the side and the high ceiling makes it totally impractical to kill with utilts, which is sadly Marth's best KO option pretty frequently. Also, there's the obvious issue with the stage layout making it really easy for Sheik to camp.

I could see picking this stage against spacies because low percent fthrow/dthrow at the edge could potentially be a kill assuming they don't tech, but the same could be said of Fox's shine/Falco's dair and it's not reliable either way. High ceiling definitely makes it harder for Fox to kill, but then again I think he has an advantage against Marth on DL64 in spite of its high ceiling, due mostly to the high platforms and the general largeness of the stage (two traits it shares with Japes). Also, both spacies are a lot more mobile than Marth in general and can camp a lot better, particularly on Japes due once again to it's weird layout.

The high ceiling and the general topography of the stage make it really pointless/hard to punish her up-B lag with tipped dsmash (if you're cool like that).

tl;dr marth sux on cp stages

 

[pockyD]

I really don't understand this because, honestly, you can just duck them. The only top tier that has a projectile that could possibly hit you is Peach.

There are stalling issues at play here because of that. Just shooting lasers in the general direction of someone but not able to hit them makes it stalling imo. Same as if Marth doesn't approach. So it's iffy right there.

camping is more of an attempt to make yourself difficult to approach; it has little to do with racking up damage from afar

that's why people often refer to certain playstyles of falcon and marth as campy, even when they blatantly can't projectile camp

so what i mean by that is that the stage layout, platform heights/sizes/absences (on the side), and edge levels / claptraps make it hard for marth to approach an opponent who's not on the same section (of the 3) of the stage where he is on

other characters, especially fox and falco, have a relatively easy time getting to and using the edges to get invincibility and help alter their approach angles

the only place marth has any sort of an advantage is in the middle section under the platform, but if you're just looking for a spot like that, even corneria and green greens afford a similar advantage if you can grab the lead

 

[ArcNatural]

camping is more of an attempt to make yourself difficult to approach; it has little to do with racking up damage from afar

that's why people often refer to certain playstyles of falcon and marth as campy, even when they blatantly can't projectile camp

so what i mean by that is that the stage layout, platform heights/sizes/absences (on the side), and edge levels / claptraps make it hard for marth to approach an opponent who's not on the same section (of the 3) of the stage where he is on

other characters, especially fox and falco, have a relatively easy time getting to and using the edges to get invincibility and help alter their approach angles

the only place marth has any sort of an advantage is in the middle section under the platform, but if you're just looking for a spot like that, even corneria and green greens afford a similar advantage if you can grab the lead

Just to clarify my badly worded statement. I know is isn't actually stalling. It's just a really iffy situation. Green Greens and Corneria are easier to get that lead imo since you can shoot through Green Greens and Corneria is large enough that you can't really stay stationary to avoid getting hit.

In the case of Jungle Japes, theoretically, both Marth and Fox/Falco could just do nothing and neither would have to ACTUALLY approach since it's less safe. I know that the odds of this happening is slim and, therefore, Fox/Falco will have more of an advantage since they can actually tack on damage and camp, where Marth can just wait in the middle of the stage (but not camp as effectively since he can't camp the edges).

It's probably not bad against less campy Fox/Falcos, but if you play a Falco/Fox who knows the stage it's probably not going to have a good outcome.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm still new to Marth, and I want to know Marth vs Falcon. How does this work?

Do really low lag moves like D-tilt far away from them and then when they think they can punish it (it's a funny because they actually can't) you dash back or shield (hold forward and then shield because you can't interrupt D-tilt with the shield but you can with walking) and then grab them out of whatever they do and kill them with killing power.

Then add generic Marth crap.

 

[Mr Physych]

Hey I was just wondering how do most of you do your short hop double fairs, when im facing left i can easily shdf with the c-stick but when im facing right the only way to consistently do it is with either Z then cstick or a then c-stick, my issue with this is that i cant DI backward on the first fair when i dont use the C-Stick so i was wondering if its realistic or even useful to practice double fairing in both directions with the C-Stick

 

[ArcNatural]

Hey I was just wondering how do most of you do your short hop double fairs, when im facing left i can easily shdf with the c-stick but when im facing right the only way to consistently do it is with either Z then cstick or a then c-stick, my issue with this is that i cant DI backward on the first fair when i dont use the C-Stick so i was wondering if its realistic or even useful to practice double fairing in both directions with the C-Stick

I can do it with the c-stick both ways. It was really hard with X, so I switched to Y and that solved my problem (since Y is much more centered to the C-stick than X is). I usually just single mid/late fair'd DIing backwards or nair'd DIing backwards when I used X. If you have good reaction time doing either of those is just fine.

It's up to you if you think it's useful to practice both directions. It can be useful, but it isn't necessary.

 

[Mr Physych]

when u say you use the y button how do you press it? I have been using the x button by pressing the lower edge of it and sliding off

 

[KAOSTAR]

sliding off any jump button is good practice and sometimes mentally easier in situations where you have to be precise and hit multiple buttons quickly. good for short hopping with characters that jump faster like fox

 

[TresChikon]

How are you supposed to DI Doc's fair? I always do it wrooong.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Down and away.

 

[Ndot]

Well, Doc's fair hits you diagonally up to the side, so vertically left or right. You want to DI perpendicular to that and depending where you are on the stage. If you get hit near the middle of the stage at like killing percentage, lets say you get hit vertically right, DI with the control stick perpendicular to that, which is vertically up left. It will push you up more into the corner of the sides so you have room to recover from the stun and just recover in general. Vice versa if you get hit vertically left. Thats just the basics to that, it also depends on where you get hit too that could change your DI input.

DI down and away or like diagonally down, which is also perpendicular to where you're flying, if you get near like the ledge from the opposite of the stage to the other, because you don't want to die off the top of the stage, and want to go to the corner of the sides so that you live longer.

EDIT: Elvenarrow - If you DI down and away all the time, doesn't it kill you at really high percents because you make yourself fly away at the same time? I usually survive doing diagonally up left or right perpendicular to where I get hit, or is down and away always better?

 

[Nø Ca$h]

arent all vert kill moves supposed to be DIed down+away?

 

[HiIH]

arent all vert kill moves supposed to be DIed down+away?

You always want to DI perpendicuarly. You're aiming to go towards the upper corners, always.

 

[Ndot]

arent all vert kill moves supposed to be DIed down+away?

Depends on the situation. What if somehow you messed up DI before and went into a more horizontal/vertical trajectory, you'd want to go vertically up because you want to go into the corners to survive. Or if a move hit you like that, then same thing.

 

[Mr Physych]

what are good ways to deal with shield pressure from falco, my always either shines to a late dair to more shines then either jump or grab, and because the dair is so late i cant grab him without getting shined and then comboed to hell

 

[Ndot]

Wavedash out of shield after the shine and fsmash or something, buffer jump from the shield and do like fair, dair, nair out of shield, change your grab timing if you have been missing it. Maybe roll if he can't follow you well. Change things up.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

grab after the shine if he does late aerial, grab after the aerial if he does early aerial. Its risky to shield grab because if you get hit you will be comboed, but you can potentially take a stock from it. Its a good mix up.

 

[Strong Badam]

best DI on Doc's fair is no DI at all, or situationally depending on your position on stage slight DI may be imposed.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

so if its a vert kill move, but your not at kill %, u di d+a to avoid comboing?

 

[Mr Physych]

Isnt smash DI always best if possible? or even quarter stick smash DI

 

[KAOSTAR]

You can up B oos against falco pressure.

 

[TresChikon]

Isnt smash DI always best if possible? or even quarter stick smash DI

Well maybe if you're so Action replay that you can just SDI and tech into the ground.

But realistically, it's pointless. SDI is just for escaping combos or avoiding a sweetspotted finisher...or doing armada techs or ledgete... w/e.

But Doc's fair IS the finisher, so... blegh.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

SDI is part of the new metagame. Learn it. SDI everything. Its like powershielding with the control stick.

 

[Ndot]

What Sveet said.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Well maybe if you're so Action replay that you can just SDI and tech into the ground.

But realistically, it's pointless. SDI is just for escaping combos or avoiding a sweetspotted finisher...or doing armada techs or ledgete... w/e.

But Doc's fair IS the finisher, so... blegh.

This couldnt be farther from the truth lol. Smash DI is necessary to survive at high percents.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

In terms of DI, to survive, you want to DI such that the average of your DI vector and the trajectory vector goes towards the upper corners of the stage. Down and away is so much easier to say, though, even if it's not always applicable.

SDI... I dunno, I haven't really seen it used so much in survival. Maybe ASDI, but if you SDI, you run the risk of dying earlier because you mess up your trajectory DI (since both are done with only the control stick). It's definitely good for breaking combos, though.

You can't SDI to tech into the ground. Only ASDI ground-techable. SDI is ceiling and wall-techable, though, that's where ledgetechs come from.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

elvenarrow, go to www.youtube.com and type in "mango ssbm". Watch very closely to where he goes from each hit, because he SDIs virtually every one. Its really not that hard, once you have the experience to know the timing of the hit you simply press the control stick the way you want to go as you get hit. I've survived knees at %'s that would otherwise kill me, and i've broken out of combos much much easier with it.