Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Metal Reeper]

You can uthrow>Utilt falcon around 42

 

[knightpraetor]

that really seems like it would be in falcon's jump range. if he can jump out at earlier percents why can't he jump out at later percents? the throw's knockback increases as percent increases, right? does stun increase as well? i always forget how the mechanics work in this game

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, stun increases as % increases. Idk the formula for it or anything though (idk if anyone knows it, honestly). I would just take simple stuff like uthrow-utilt to Training Mode though.

 

[knightpraetor]

thus why dthrow on falcon at the ledge feels soo much safer at 10% than at 0%. feels like i dont even have to worry about jump to the ledge once they get higher

 

[Deleted member]

(Preferably pinned to the) edge. Always edge.

Unless I got a grab then it depends because I can force DJs/floats/whatever well.

this was actually a really cool question. i was also thinking "edge every time no question" but then i realized that i might have contradicted myself.

i'd also say to the edge, as long as its on your terms. i thought about why i didn't like forward throw to the edge, and it's that the opponents get too many options to deal with you at that point. you can get the opponent pinned to a side and go some real work on them because marth is so hard to deal with when you can't use movement to look for holes on him. that said, it's still okay to get them pinned into upthrow because you're still in control at this point. and come to think of it, i've seen a lot of successful instances when marth gets the opponent pinned into and upthrow > combo/juggle/cut off recovies/fear suicides > kill. this might actually be a really good strategy to play to because getting them pinned is one of the best way to get positional advantage for that first grab.

yay i learned something today. i'll get to the other posts later.

edit: the skype chat was surprisingly productive. i think.

 

[FrootLoop]

can somebody give me a crash course on vs falco? I can figure out combos and tactical stuff myself, but I don't see the general gameplan. How do I identify what lasers are bad that can't be directly punished?

 

[Bones0]

this was actually a really cool question. i was also thinking "edge every time no question" but then i realized that i might have contradicted myself.

i'd also say to the edge, as long as its on your terms. i thought about why i didn't like forward throw to the edge, and it's that the opponents get too many options to deal with you at that point. you can get the opponent pinned to a side and go some real work on them because marth is so hard to deal with when you can't use movement to look for holes on him. that said, it's still okay to get them pinned into upthrow because you're still in control at this point. and come to think of it, i've seen a lot of successful instances when marth gets the opponent pinned into and upthrow > combo/juggle/cut off recovies/fear suicides > kill. this might actually be a really good strategy to play to because getting them pinned is one of the best way to get positional advantage for that first grab.

yay i learned something today. i'll get to the other posts later.

edit: the skype chat was surprisingly productive. i think.

PP's post very briefly summarized what Mahone and I were telling you for about 3 pages, during which you insisted pinning them at the ledge was not consistent enough. LOL

 

[Deleted member]

PP's post very briefly summarized what Mahone and I were telling you for about 3 pages, during which you insisted pinning them at the ledge was not consistent enough. LOL

i know what kevin means though with more depth and an implicit way that he didn't really state, which is basically to still avoid the risk element.

also, all of my **** is at least 5% wrong because this character is full of exceptions. i just make generalizations anyway because the people that get it already already know those exceptions and they also know why i make the generalizations. like when kirbykaze is on aim (get on aim david) sometimes we talk about marth's traps down to a finer detail and try to cover holes with different stage control options. whereas kevin just said "i throw them to the edge and i don't expose myself and i hope they derp into me because if they don't then i'm still good", where mahone was closer to "it's okay to forfeit stage control here so that you might get it and the risk to them is greater enough than the risk to yourself (as expected value)". i hope i got that right. anyway, i'm saying that it's absolutely not okay to forfeit stage position and control of the opponent and thats the difference.

 

[knightpraetor]

peach boards don't seem to be answering, so I will ask a question. when sheik lands she is crouching and ungrabbable (with peach at least). I assume that this is landing lag..basically light hit on peach she lands goes into Crouch animation, stands up and can move. The question is, are there actual frames in which she has stood up and is grabbable yet is still in lag. If so, how many?

 

[FrootLoop]

Last thursday I was trying out way more up throw and way less fthrow, and it worked super well. Marth's sword is like huge and they can't get out of the way because marth is so fast on the ground. I definitely recommend it over fthrow in nearly every situation, and I feel way more comfortable with it than trying to techchase 4% at a time or playing dicey edge games.

 

[Dr Peepee]

can somebody give me a crash course on vs falco? I can figure out combos and tactical stuff myself, but I don't see the general gameplan. How do I identify what lasers are bad that can't be directly punished?

Stay grounded, master at least crouching and dash away PS, and keep yourself mobile so you can abuse your mobility(and through it, range) advantage over Falco. CC Nairs.

Bad lasers are ones done too close to you or done where you can swing and hit Falco as it's coming out/before it's coming out. Your movement should help create bad laser situations.

 

[Deleted member]

i'm making you shave your neckbeard before we go. i don't want anyone that looks like a league of legends player in my passenger seat.

you can however put twitch in your luggage. he'll fit in the trunk.

 

[Dr Peepee]

twitch has school!

and you can shave me if you beat me at falcon dittos

 

[Divinokage]

Ill beat you in Falcon dittos.

 

[Mahone]

twitch has school!

and you can shave me if you beat me at falcon dittos

can i get a ride to apex?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Ill beat you in Falcon dittos.

LMFAO nope

MM me anyyyy amount

can i get a ride to apex?

Uhhh I don't have a problem with bringing you(I would enjoy that tbh <3), but you'll have to ask Umbreon about it since we're riding with him too and ask IE if you can stay with him(not sure if he still has room or not.)

 

[Divinokage]

Alright we'll see at Apex. =)

 

[Dr Peepee]

I get to grow your hair back out when I win

 

[Divinokage]

Lol alright. You better be prepared!

 

[Dr Peepee]

*begins flailing legs

 

[Divinokage]

I will send you into the abyss with my feet.

 

[Bones0]

Marth vs. Peach on FD: master race god tier awesomeness

Marth vs. Peach on all other stages: 10-90 matchup

Anyone wanna break down turnips 101? I lost a MM tonight because I basically just shielded every turnip, which led to eating fair shield damage, which led to dsmash shield damage, and consequently dumb shield pokes and getting knocked off stage. Also, general spacing tips for fairs. I feel like i get dash attacked every time I try to space fairs (she will often WD back to avoid the rising fair, and dash attack at me before the second comes out). I tried using more dtilt, but she just seemed to float every time I went for a dtilt, and dash attack every time I went to swat her out of a float. Do I just have to bait/react better to that mixup, or is there some underlying spacing issue that makes me lose nearly every encounter?

Also, how the **** am I supposed to kill this ****? Side-B utilt wasn't cutting it, and I was only able to WD around with utilts properly on FD. When there's plats involved, it is just too difficult to WL onto plats and utilt without whiffing and letting her down. I don't want to just fsmash like an idiot, and my uair/bair/nair attempts tended to just get avoided with an airdodge (though I'm sure I should just be expecting this as a bait more often than I was).

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Last thursday I was trying out way more up throw and way less fthrow, and it worked super well. Marth's sword is like huge and they can't get out of the way because marth is so fast on the ground. I definitely recommend it over fthrow in nearly every situation, and I feel way more comfortable with it than trying to techchase 4% at a time or playing dicey edge games.

Okay. Now start using Bthrow as the Uthrow substitute at higher percents on floaters if you get a grab. Less knockback then uthrow putting them within fullhop -> second jump range without the wait. Higher angle than Fthrow/Dthrow making hard DI away not as serious.

Anyone wanna break down turnips 101? I lost a MM tonight because I basically just shielded every turnip, which led to eating fair shield damage, which led to dsmash shield damage, and consequently dumb shield pokes and getting knocked off stage. Also, general spacing tips for fairs. I feel like i get dash attacked every time I try to space fairs (she will often WD back to avoid the rising fair, and dash attack at me before the second comes out). I tried using more dtilt, but she just seemed to float every time I went for a dtilt, and dash attack every time I went to swat her out of a float. Do I just have to bait/react better to that mixup, or is there some underlying spacing issue that makes me lose nearly every encounter?

first problem with turnip -> fair -> dsmash is you were shielding(?). If she is in the air, she can't pull turnips(?). Don't approach with sh double fair(?) from neutral(?).

 

[Bones0]

She's pulling the turnip, throwing it (I shield), then floating and preventing me from doing anything OoS because of the threat of a fair.

 

[Niko45]

If she actually gets the turnips out, it's just kind of pretty bad lol. The goal is to not allow her to pull turnips without getting dash attacked for being over aggressive.

At low % non stitch you can CC them. Nair through them is super unreliable but can be worth a shot in a tough spot. Counter, as well...basically gimmicky **** has to be gone for once she has an actual turnip setup. Try not to let her get them.

 

[knightpraetor]

i think you said it yourself. shield is not the proper response to turnips (unless you have a lot of stage to play with then shield instant queue roll back is ok). nair through turnips. retreating sh fair turnips...FH fair turnips to various spacings but be careful of peach getting under. Most important thing. Don't always do the same thing. Peach can vary what she does to hit your response to the turnips..when you do get through, make it count

 

[Bones0]

**** Peach. Thanks guys. I will just have to study vids to look for that stuff. I'm not really planning on going Marth vs. Peach in tourney, but I just want to understand it for other reasons.

 

[knightpraetor]

also you can retreat fair out of shield, it's not safe, but everyone is forced to shield at times. Also peach is great

 

[Tarv]

**** Peach. Thanks guys. I will just have to study vids to look for that stuff. I'm not really planning on going Marth vs. Peach in tourney, but I just want to understand it for other reasons.

I feel your pain Bones0, I too hate the peach MU.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

hmm... its brought up against samus to PS strong missles. It has equally been brought up to PS falco lasers. What's wrong with PS peach turnip?

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Goes for Peach, as you'd imagine, most of them go for Float --> Turnip, and you'll just PS it right back at them. Just WD underneath the turnip then PS.

Example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dLT97ivKo_4#t=304s

Peach is tricky though. That worked against any Peach ever but Armada ***** me hard still.


Works against physical attacks by the way, like Falco's dair approach, Falcon attempting a Knee, etc.

I feel like every one is ignoring Mahie's top tier PSing...
But anyhow Bones, it appears he has a pretty good response to turnips.

 

[Bones0]

I was actually trying to PS most of the turnips. I think I only got 1-2 as Falco and Marth each, and I'm pretty good at PSing, and the turnips were super telegraphed. I was doing dash aways, so maybe crouching would be better.

 

[Deleted member]

and you can shave me if you put flunitrazepam somewhere in my drink or food

zelda counts as falcon right? they're basically the same character except one has a dash and the other has a recovery

 

[~Twitch~]

twitch has school!

and you can shave me if you beat me at falcon dittos

no i don't i have the entire week off.

 

[Redd]

no i don't i have the entire week off.

Yeah, cmon PP!

HE WAS NUMBER ONE!!!!!

 

[Construct]

Catch the turnips, it's actually really easy and confuses lots of Peaches. Aerial grabbing with Z is best.

 

[Bones0]

Should I just immediately drop them after that, or should I toss it at them? In my head it seems like I'll just get faired after catching the turnip...

 

[Tee ay eye]

i don't catch turnips on purpose usually, but i'll just z-drop them most of the time. only time i throw them is when i'm really far away from peach because marth's item throw takes like 8 minutes

 

[Mahie]

@Bones
First, on the subject of Crouch PS, I think I explained like 5 times already why it's good against stuff that comes from above, so I won't bother anymore.

If you're gonna shield the turnip, what you can do is just keep the trigger down and immediatly press jump, and that will catch the turnip.

If you're feeling fancy you can PS, let it hit peach, press jump, catch it, throw it, and do stuff.

As to whether you want to throw it or drop it I would suggest just throwing it away and going back to neutral, it won't help you much if at all.


Edit : Actually my bad, you have to jump and then press A, while still holding R/L, but it still helps a lot when trying to catch them oos.

 

[Dr Peepee]

zelda counts as falcon right? they're basically the same character except one has a dash and the other has a recovery

yeah that's fine

except the stuff you said wasn't fine

no i don't i have the entire week off.

bit what play me then LOL



PS'ing turnips could be cool, but it really shouldn't happen much if you stay close to Peach anyway.