Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Beat!]

Why aren't you at smashers reunion?

smh

Yeah, I know, I was supposed to go =(. My 10-day trip to Netherlands/Denmark left me with a pretty weak economy.

I would've ****ed 'em all up, too. :/

@crush
Last time I checked, M2K plays against americans.
And I don't play WoW. =)

 

[MT_]

LoL tags?

sworly

We should play together.

 

[Construct]

What do you guys think about boost-grabbing? It seems really janky/gimmicky but so far it's been really succesful when I use it sparingly... the range is just stupid, and it tends to catch people off guard

 

[OverLord]

I find it useful with Sheik and Fox, but I never felt any need with Marth.

 

[V]

3. shield drop aerial walls. run, shield drop, double jump, aerials (double fair, fair->uair etc). Generally work on shield drops. Shield dropped wavelands, shield drop->normal land->shffl (or EMPTY hop, amazing mindgame), etc.

Would somebody mind explaining this to me? Is this referring to shield dropping on a platform or literally just dropping shield?

Edit: Nevermind it's talking about platform shield dropping.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Boost grab is only good with Sheik

 

[Bones0]

Sounds like they are talking about shai drops. Shai drop DJ aerial is horrible though. It's just a waste of your jump.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

TIL Peach's boost grab is worse than dash grab

 

[Bones0]

Til? >_>

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

"Today I Learned"

 

[MasterShake]

You spilled reddit in the smashboards.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You spilled reddit in the smashboards.

 

[knightpraetor]

i am so freaking sick of europe and americans and their stupid dumb armada peepee mango johning....
why is it that smash players are so much dumber than other esports....how hard is it to freaking understand....A PLAYER IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THEY PLAY AT THEIR WORST!!!!!

it pisses me off so much reading the dumb johns about how pp didn't play well in winner's finals or that armada was sloppy in grand finals...those kinds of lame excuses have no place in competitive play...at most they should only come out to your friends when explaining that you felt off during a set that you played...it certainly doesn't need to be broadcast to the world or speculated about by outsiders....

and the logic behind it is so freaking flawed....you can't properly average out skill level from every match a player has in tourney....so obviously they are going to base it off of the minimum or maximum...

But what kind of freaking moron thinks that you should base how good top players are based on how they are playing at their best.....does anyone bother to think where that leads...

in starcraft brood war i have played over 2000 games now. And in one game that I once had a replay for, i literally played at around B level when my skill level is only C-..and at that time was only D+....so because I have one game where I miraculously played like a pro does that mean people should start lauding me as a top player that just happens to drop sets all the time? wth is wrong with people...how well you could have done has no relevance whatsoever in a competive discussion..the only important thing is how well you did....if you can't be consistent you don't deserve to be at the top and have no excuse when you lose...

but in smash for some reason all the players whine and give excuses...and no it's not like that in other esports... in korea people would be like.....flash made a lot of mistakes..but they wouldn't go around saying...oh flash should have won he was just off that day..that minimizes the accomplishment of the competition and is freaking rude to begin with.....uggh...i'm so sick of smashboards..if it were not for the inspiration i get every month or two by scouring the boards and finding one useful post i would never come here...

and if a top player whined like that publicly in korea..first of all his PR would be shot and everyone would lose interest in him..but in addition to that all his fans would publicly mock him for being a scrub and tell him to learn to play....which is how people should respond when top players whine

 

[Strong Badam]

PP/Armada almost never john.

 

[knightpraetor]

they have johned though...but part of the problem is that people actually try to get armada pp to come john..they like ask them in pm and then post it...or post on the boards and ask (as was done in the recent thread)...i just can't understand this community sometimes. do we actually want to promote whining?

also if a player wins..whether it is luck or not, the other players should acknowledge it as a legitimate win..whether it was a 1/100 game where that player was playing better than normal or whether the favored player just happened to play worse that game...at the end of the day the facts are that the underdog played a game in which he played better than the favored player..no excuses needed

 

[Beat!]

Yo great posts knightpraetor. I agree completely.

 

[Fregadero]

I just realized there isnt a single marth player thats solidly in the top 20

wtf guys we're bad

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

#3 doesn't count???

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah, unfortunately it's true..in my opinion a large part of the problem is a lot of marth's matchups require completely different styles or spacing..and even the edgeguarding is different...we have a lot of marths that are decent in a couple matchups...but most suck horrendously at a couple matchups...and in general we're also pretty lacking compared to top level play...

also, after seeing ice's performance..i have a feeling that a lot of us build bad habits by using fallback techniques that we know are suboptimal when we feel like what we are doing isn't working..rather than realizing that we need to perfect our fundamentals so that we aren't forced to resort to suboptimal fallback techniques and panic attacks that don't actually have a good success rate on top level players

btw, i know i probably gave ice the hardest time for his performance..but i've also been his fan from before europe was really that popular here..i'm also beat's fan (watched some marth dittos of him and he ended up being competent), and dart and tai's (though i disagree strongly with tai's assertion that he was good at vs sheik...and the next two sets he played against sheik kind of backed me up..but that matchup sucks anyway)

honestly for me to like your play you just have to demonstrate that you are either better than me or at least better than me at some aspect or matchup and i'll watch..i even watch the sets of some players i think are worse than me...though lately what i watch the most is shroomed marth...it's interesting in that it has a lot of flaws that people who have been playing marth a long time don't have but then has counteracting strong points that come from his strong base skills..as well as unique choices that only someone new to the character would do..this allows me to look at new options and consider new things more..so i've been finding that his matches are actually opening my eyes the most lately because it adds so many things to my "things to test out in matches" list.

anyway i strongly want to recommend that you never allow yourself to use subpar options that you know are subpar even if you know that doing so would grant you a win in a friendly against someone that you may lose to if you play standard (especially when warming up)..i know i suffer from doing that a lot when warming up cause i hate losing to players worse than me cause they then hold their friendly win over me forever.. so i too could end up doing dumb stuff in tourney like ice cause of those habits...if you know something is not optimal, don't rely on it..get 4 stocked instead with things that you need to get better at....lose those stupid friendlies...

but yeah, watching ice panic and use that reminded me of 2 weeks back when someone played falco vs me who was worse than me...and i hate playing vs falco since i'm already pretty good at it...so i just didn't feel like playing so i just relied on similar stuff to what Ice did...doesn't work on good players..but wrecked them of course

 

[Beat!]

i'm also beat's fan (watched some marth dittos of him and he ended up being competent)

Wow, really? Thanks a lot haha.

I feel like I'm improving at a steady and relatively fast rate, so hopefully I can showcase some really good (and new) stuff before too long.

 

[Fregadero]

I don't count m2k anymore, his marth is his guaranteed match on FD in a Bo5. Otherwise its waaaay more sheik.

I think Zenith was the most I've seen him use Marth at the top of bracket in a while.

EDIT: LOL my username just got changed

 

[leffen]

Ice plays against the character, he doesn't adjust to player styles. He also heavily relies on 103103810 gimmicks, and once you understand how he plays he can be easy to trick into doing different things. I knew all this since I had used falco vs him in friendlies for and always won more, but I saved using falco for this tournament, and used it to throw him off.
I did screw up a lot at times with Falco since I barely ever use him anymore, so I just focused on outsmarting Ice, which in turn, made the match look scrubbish at times.

Ice needs to learn how to adjust to different playstyles, and how to combo people with good DI and how to convert into these combos from the neutral game (this is his main differences from M2K's marth)
Ice has a lot of potential, but he needs to man up and stop playing Sheik in every single matchup he doesn't understand and just play Marth for real if he wants to be a marth main. He should honestly have lost to Zgetto too.



Oh, and PP's marth is ****. It actually has a playstyle that is constructed to consistently **** at top level play, instead of randomly ****** low level like M2K/Ice/almost every marth main there is.

 

[Boat Mode]

And suddenly I have a super old join date

 

[knightpraetor]

are there any other sites outside the USA that upload smash videos..i want to watch a lot but honestly buffering in korea takes forever off youtube...does australia have some sites? or maybe europe? just hoping for something a little less laggy..but it's hard enough to find marth videos much less ones that load...

though lately i've been focusing more on learning ICs...honestly I no longer think fox is the 2nd best secondary for marth...now i think it's falco (cause falco is god tier), ICs (because they have the best matchup in the game on sheik), then fox.

but i guess it depends on whether you actually intend to use fox for other matchups....personally i think marth vs falcon is doable..and everything else is definitely not worth switching for.

 

[leffen]

wtf is going on


also knight please learn how to ****ing write your posts..give..me...nightmares..

 

[knightpraetor]

an ellipse hater eh? very well, i shall attempt to use proper grammar for the day, excluding capitalization.

Anyway, I thought maybe since you're a european player you would know if Europeans used other websites than youtube for uploading videos. I'm in south korea at the moment, so it is difficult to stream videos on youtube.

also i'm rambling cause it's bedtime here in korea. since there is a lack of recent smash videos that i've yet to watch besides smasher's reunion and I'm still scared to watch Ice vs zgetto, I'm currently watching fantasy vs n.die.soo (starcraft: brood war osl round of 8)

someone give me recommendations on some inspirational marth or ice climber videos to watch. or maybe I should go back and rewatch one of the PP/m2k sets again.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

why do you want to watch smash vids when you have live starcraft

 

[knightpraetor]

no live starcraft right now. Just watching earlier matches that I was too busy to watch. But I'm worried that my marth vs fox and marth vs falco will get worse while I'm in korea from lack of playing if i don't regularly watch videos and think about what I would do in various situations.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Well you had the OSL a few hours ago, did you catch that?



and i would steer clear of watching and try to do more visualization exercises. And/or beating up on a lvl 1 occasionally. You won't lose skill if you are taking a few weeks off

 

[knightpraetor]

it's not a few weeks. I played 20 hrs in 2 months. That's almost like not playing at all. Do you think armada would ever take that kind of break? that said, I'm not aiming to be pro, I would just like to be top 30.

I think during the school year I averaged like 20 hours per week.

To me that is a reasonable amount of practice, as long as you top it off with 4 hrs of studying things to improve so you have fresh things in your mind to work on.

also watching matches for me is not "watching." it is always visualization practice. I go step by step, pausing and analyzing what the person did in the situation and thinking about what i would do in that situation, and then finally visualizing it playing out. I even try to think through what would happen if the opponent did various things to dodge or punish my choice.

and i don't have a gamecube in korea, so no playing unless I go to the capital to play the players there.

also no i didn't catch the osl, but i will get around to it soon.

 

[Varist]

@Professor-P: To prevent getting uair combo'd x3, the basic advice is to DI the up throw behind the Fox and spam forward air. If they have good timing, the forward air won't really come out or hit, and you should DI that first uair in the opposite direction that you were just DIing. So basically go back and forth in the air. It forces the Fox to jump in one direction, putting them as far away from you as possible.

As for tricksies...

If you see him run at you, just stand there and grab. You are Marth, king of the grab game. If he starts jumping in instead, dash back, turn around and grab. If they laser spam you, get close, then wait for one of the first two options. If you really need to start being offensive, get close and force a spot dodge, then grab. If they start getting used to you anticipating spot dodge, just immediately grab.

Starting to see a pattern?

@Witchking: "Wavedashing, dash dancing, and Fox trotting are your movement friends."

These are the basic movement tricks. Once you start learning how to abuse wavedash momentum, you can really start mind****ing people.

the most useful quote I found after 11 pages, i hope it's not the most useful in the thread but holy **** this is such a simple key to the neutral game against spacies on fd

 

[Cactuar]

My Marth was always very simple...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

it's not a few weeks. I played 20 hrs in 2 months. That's almost like not playing at all. Do you think armada would ever take that kind of break? that said, I'm not aiming to be pro, I would just like to be top 30.

I think during the school year I averaged like 20 hours per week.

To me that is a reasonable amount of practice, as long as you top it off with 4 hrs of studying things to improve so you have fresh things in your mind to work on.

also watching matches for me is not "watching." it is always visualization practice. I go step by step, pausing and analyzing what the person did in the situation and thinking about what i would do in that situation, and then finally visualizing it playing out. I even try to think through what would happen if the opponent did various things to dodge or punish my choice.

and i don't have a gamecube in korea, so no playing unless I go to the capital to play the players there.

also no i didn't catch the osl, but i will get around to it soon.

How long are you there til? Yeah 20 hrs in 2 months is kinda brutal, but thats more than I spent during this last school year (granted I was "retired").

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Does anyone notice if daily practice does anything for you at all? If I don't play for a week... yeah, I will see myself screwing up a ton of stuff. But after like 30-60 minutes of messing around, I am back on top of my gameplay. If I keep playing for about 5 hours or more, I'll notice I'm getting fatigued and I start screwing things up again.

I guess it depends how your practice. If you only need that warm-up, then like 30 minutes of CPU play is probably all you need to stay on top of gameplay if you haven't played for awhile. If you want to improve you need more routine practice, but I found that everyday stuff against people really messes up with my mentality. Taking that week long break and getting back into smash again, I feel great and nothing really bothers me at all when playing. I feel a bit more creative and notice things and get less narrow minded when playing someone.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You should be able to play for at least 12 hours without noticeable decrease in ability, or else you're going to have a rough time at day-long tournaments (much less multi-day tournaments... you don't get all ur stamina back from 1 night's rest)

 

[knightpraetor]

lol,that is definitely not true of me. i could never in my dreams play for even 6 hrs straight against people that are at or above my skill level without some degradation due to being tired

luckily, you spend a significant amount of your time at tourney playing people worse than you, which is your time to turn on braindead play mode and at most focus on a few combos here and there.

I don't know how most people are, but I generally give 1-2 rounds to see if the opponent is pretty good and I can learn something while focusing. If within that time, I'm not significantly impressed, I turn on autopilot. However, if I start losing 3-4 friendlies in a row again then I assume that they just weren't warmed up and start trying for real.

PP is also relatively the same based on my 2-3 hrs watching him at the last smashfest in NC. He just plays relatively halfheartedly..but if he notices he is only 2 stocking you instead of 3 stocking you, he suddenly picks up his game and focuses for like 30 seconds, gets a kill, then goes back on autopilot.

also, for me personally, not having daily practice has little effect on me if I don't play for 3-4 days. Maybe a 5-10% effect on me if I don't play for a week, and then if I don't play for 2 weeks, then the first day back to playing I am roughly 70% skill level for about 5 hrs because my movements are sloppy and sluggish.

i can avoid this 5 hrs of low skill by putting in 1 hr against a level 1 comp though and practicing tech skill.

 

[Wake]

i am so freaking sick of europe and americans and their stupid dumb armada peepee mango johning....
why is it that smash players are so much dumber than other esports....how hard is it to freaking understand....A PLAYER IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THEY PLAY AT THEIR WORST!!!!!

it pisses me off so much reading the dumb johns about how pp didn't play well in winner's finals or that armada was sloppy in grand finals...those kinds of lame excuses have no place in competitive play...at most they should only come out to your friends when explaining that you felt off during a set that you played...it certainly doesn't need to be broadcast to the world or speculated about by outsiders....

and the logic behind it is so freaking flawed....you can't properly average out skill level from every match a player has in tourney....so obviously they are going to base it off of the minimum or maximum...

But what kind of freaking moron thinks that you should base how good top players are based on how they are playing at their best.....does anyone bother to think where that leads...

in starcraft brood war i have played over 2000 games now. And in one game that I once had a replay for, i literally played at around B level when my skill level is only C-..and at that time was only D+....so because I have one game where I miraculously played like a pro does that mean people should start lauding me as a top player that just happens to drop sets all the time? wth is wrong with people...how well you could have done has no relevance whatsoever in a competive discussion..the only important thing is how well you did....if you can't be consistent you don't deserve to be at the top and have no excuse when you lose...

but in smash for some reason all the players whine and give excuses...and no it's not like that in other esports... in korea people would be like.....flash made a lot of mistakes..but they wouldn't go around saying...oh flash should have won he was just off that day..that minimizes the accomplishment of the competition and is freaking rude to begin with.....uggh...i'm so sick of smashboards..if it were not for the inspiration i get every month or two by scouring the boards and finding one useful post i would never come here...

and if a top player whined like that publicly in korea..first of all his PR would be shot and everyone would lose interest in him..but in addition to that all his fans would publicly mock him for being a scrub and tell him to learn to play....which is how people should respond when top players whine

I love this post so much I can't even. I was thinking the same thing except with the rest of the FGC. This is a competition, and the smash players want people to recognize this game as being competitive, but then don't even act like it is. It's so dumb.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'm with Wake. That was a really good post, KP.

Smooth Criminal

 

[knightpraetor]

not very good writing though..."europe and americans" instead of "europeans and americans"

^_^

just raw emotion and disappointment. Playing other competitive games can make you disappointed in the smash community at times.

 

[Bones0]

not very good writing though..."europe and americans" instead of "europeans and americans"

^_^

just raw emotion and disappointment. Playing other competitive games can make you disappointed in the smash community at times.

But then I try to play CoD on Xbox Live and immediately remember why I have so much pride as a Melee player. :D