Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[MT_]

Beat!, that is possible to do. It takes like an extra three frames or something like that. It's basically a double pivot.... However you won't reach them in time. I'm trying to come up with something to prevent peach from DI'ing down and away hopefully I'll come up with something though. Please be patient. I'll reveal most of what I know in a text format sometime after the next major tournament.

Come play me tomorrow.

 

[AustinRC]

Dude I wish I could. I get up at 5 and do about an hour and a half of training. Go to my first job at around 7 till 12:30 then go to my second job at 1:00 till 10. If I get out early maybe but I might be too tired well see. Oh and my controller broke. ****ing ****!!!!

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, I thought of double pivoting but those extra frames kinda suck. :/

Eager to hear about the rest.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Beat!, that is possible to do. It takes like an extra three frames or something like that. It's basically a double pivot.... However you won't reach them in time. I'm trying to come up with something to prevent peach from DI'ing down and away hopefully I'll come up with something though. Please be patient. I'll reveal most of what I know in a text format sometime after the next major tournament.

What's wrong with DI down and away? Why can't we just read it, wait for it, then read the tech? I mean they still have to tech.

 

[MasterShake]

I hate peach's tech rolls more than any other character.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Nah

**** Sheik tech roll

 

[AustinRC]

What's wrong with DI down and away? Why can't we just read it, wait for it, then read the tech? I mean they still have to tech.

Why go for a follow up when you can get something guaranteed? I wasn't just talking specifically about peach's DI down and away I'm talking about many different things. This particular situation just happened to be one of them.

 

[Jake13]

AustinRC: didn't respond till now I'm so late but I'll take your sword in holy matramony

Mt: I see you double phoning. Austin caught on, watch out

Both of you come to the H and marth ditto me <33

Also, SH fair > upair on shield > land > pivot sideB is the business. Get on it

 

[Niko45]

I hate peach's tech rolls more than any other character.

Kind of agree. Tho this is really more of a personal thing since any tech roll you're not 100% comfortable with as far as length and timing will **** you up. Ones that you have down pat, well, you can assume those are probably your best matchups.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach's tech rolls? Why? They seem pretty average (unless they're longer than most, I don't really pay attention :\ )

 

[Bones0]

I hate Peach's tech roll (as spacies) because when I'm a split second late I eat a CC dsmash. :|

 

[ShroudedOne]

Not going to lie, that was the FIRST thing I thought of, lol.

 

[Fregadero]

Just curious, has anyone messed around w/ ledgehop turnaround neut b, landing or not? It seems like it could have some niche uses to cover a bunch of options, maybe on spacies or something.

Miiiiight just be a really bad idea that is entirely beaten by ledgehop bair, but I figured i'd see what other people thought.

 

[MasterShake]

I do that **** on compz, though I hate how people can adjust their recovery so I don't really try it, kinda slow and obvious imo. I'm a fan of style though, so someone make it work.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I find myself using that a lot against falcon and ganon if I get on the ledge early (like if I thought they would die, but still had their 2nd jump). It spaces marth really nicely at the ledge for his shieldbreaker charge against them.

 

[Construct]

I find myself using that a lot against falcon and ganon if I get on the ledge early (like if I thought they would die, but still had their 2nd jump). It spaces marth really nicely at the ledge for his shieldbreaker charge against them.

I keep thinking you're Mew2King

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I find myself using that a lot against falcon and ganon if I get on the ledge early (like if I thought they would die, but still had their 2nd jump). It spaces marth really nicely at the ledge for his shieldbreaker charge against them.

Yeah I do the same exact thing. It's really a great tool for those two characters. I use it in P:M much more frequently but now's not the time for such discussions.

 

[Strong Badam]

Dude I wish I could. I get up at 5 and do about an hour and a half of training. Go to my first job at around 7 till 12:30 then go to my second job at 1:00 till 10. If I get out early maybe but I might be too tired well see. Oh and my controller broke. ****ing ****!!!!

the one I gave you? =(

 

[AustinRC]

Yeah SB the one you gave me tilts slightly up and to the right at neutral and is sometimes non responsive. I'm very very sad. D:

 

[Blistering Speed]

I've re-evaluated Marth's match-ups. There's several small leaps in faith wrt meta-game development, but nothing unfeasible.

Fox - 55-45.
Falco - 55-45.
Puff - 50-50.
Sheik - 40-60.
Peach - 60-40.
Falcon - 55-45.
Ice Climbers - 60-40.

I could see Falcon as even and Ice Climbers as a relatively lesser advantage, but still an advantage. Otherwise, reasonably satisfied. I'm really ****ing bored, someone please contest my arbitrary numerical representations.

 

[Beat!]

I would, but with the exception of the Puff MU (which I don't want to get into a long argument about until I've played against a high-level Puff), I pretty much agree completely with your numbers. I would maybe change Fox to 50-50 and Sheik to 45-55, but that's about it.

 

[knightpraetor]

can't accept any chart in which marth has a larger advantage on peach than he has on fox..but whatever. people always believe what they want..it doesn't seem that far from the average opinion these days anyway.though i'm never certain whether these charts are supposed to reflect the actual current metagame or some theoretical nonsense

sorry if this sounds biting...i'm just annoyed lately with the concept of a theoretical tier list in the first place..why do we need it? people can know recent results by asking around to actually know how characters have been doing..and it's nonsense to think that any player has the necessary knowledge to make the judgments about matchups they don't play...but instead we amass all the opinions and vote and thus decide what the matchups are like..

voting..how typically american.. why can't they just be satisfied with creating some sort of elo ranking and then just judging the characters based on that..that's what most competitive games would do..but here we are on smashboards.. land of theorycraft

 

[Blistering Speed]

I would maybe change Fox to 50-50 and Sheik to 45-55, but that's about it.

I am open to both of these suggestions.

can't accept any chart in which marth has a larger advantage on peach than he has on fox..but whatever.

Care to expand?

Diatribe against theoretical discussion.

This seems to be a growing attitude, one that I don't understand. Theories are the initial step towards the genesis of practical application. Just because a strategy or technique is novel or sparsely used, that shouldn't entirely exempt it from discussion and the consideration of its potential implications, as long as it remains within the boundaries of human capability. A community that stymies theoretical discussion threatens stagnancy.

 

[Fregadero]

I can see how a lot of those feel right, but with that matchup spread should have him as a top 3 character with the spacies.

I'd say Fox is even, Falco is even to slight disadvantage, Falcon is even, sheik is 45-55, and Peach is 55-45. Agree w/ Puff and IC's, Marth players suck at the IC's matchup.

Marth is so underepresented at high level that its hard for anyone to really know how he fits in.

If you want any explanation I can say more when I'm home from work.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Can someone help me with the Peach neutral spacing game?

I understand the combos/punishment, even if I can't do it as well as I'd like, but my overall strategy in that matchup is lacking. First hits are major struggle for me.

Thanks

 

[AustinRC]

Puff vs Marth is 40-60 in Marth's favor. Just wait guys I promise I'll explain here soon. :D Oh and TheCrimsonBlur, just say a little outside her dash attack range. Then wait for her to do something. If she pulls a turnip you can just run in and grab. if she tries dash attacking just shield and grab. It starts to get a little screwy when she starts floating but that's a general basis for it. ;D good luck!

 

[Niko45]

matchup charts initiate ****ty discussions and a whole lotta cool story bros

 

[Tee ay eye]

shouldn't it be "cool stories, bros"

 

[AustinRC]

^ trolled softly

 

[Tee ay eye]

first post i make here in weeks (i think) and it's about grammar

god damn it

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Tai and Niko are reading this thread and they didn't at least give me a "nair through the turnips!"

Ya'll some *****es

 

[Niko45]

hmm, well I feel like an entire matchup discussion could be viewed as one giant cool story

 

[Tee ay eye]

lose a losers finals set in game 5 last stock high percent to a random stitchface and lose your smash mojo

that's how it's done

 

[Niko45]

League helps too

 

[Tee ay eye]

riven is loosely based off marth

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I was wondering where you went.

****ing League

 

[ShroudedOne]

? Riven? If anything, I expected Fiora.

AustinRC pretty much explained the Peach neutral. I think if she tries to approach you with a float, utilt/fair/uair is fine, otherwise, wait for her float to run out.

 

[Construct]

League is taking all the smashers
at least switch to DOTA or something

ARC, are you ever going to make that pivotting video you mentioned awhile ago ?


edit: I find ftilt really really awesome for stuffing peach's approaches

 

[MasterShake]

wait for her float to run out.

lol patience.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I understand. It's impossible to be patient vs her. I've tried.