Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[leffen]

Fair ->fthrow/dthrow->Pivot tipper kills puff from ZERO on YS assuming she is holding down from ANYWHERE on the stage. If she would try to react with down away and fails, she dies fthrow/dthrow FIVE ****ING PERCENT


well nvm marth can't win a national Q_Q

 

[Divinokage]

Sure he can.. Marth is good!!

 

[Beat!]

leffen was joking. It was a jab at certain Marth players. =p

leffen we gotta play soon now that I've graduated!

 

[Divinokage]

Even if it was, i REFUSE to let negativity pass! =P

 

[Beat!]

True that, true that. Let's do this, Marth boards!

 

[leffen]

come down this weekend yo, I'm free too

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, you're mad free

GOT 'EM

Seriously though, this weekend sounds great. =P

 

[Armada]

Sure he can.. Marth is good!!

HE CAN'T!
Marth is so ****ing bad and every Marth has to change char to a broken char like Falco/Fox/Puff.

Marth will never win a national cause he is to bad =(

 

[Divinokage]

Well with this ruleset, you may need to switch characters, yes.. since you can't ban in best of 5s. But you can sure as hell use him for FD, Yoshi's, BF, FoD, Stadium, maybe not DL though.

 

[Beat!]

Hey

No negativity

 

[leffen]

Hey

No negativity

lol me pc chris and otg all know how broken falco is

marth just can't win a national

 

[Beat!]

:/

Guess I'll have to settle for internationals then. Oh well.

 

[leffen]

lol yeah, its so funny that "american nationals" aren't considered a "national" until international players attend

we have such good grasp of things

 

[Construct]

Puff doesn't die from a tipper until ~33% on Yoshi's from the middle of the stage with no DI. That being said **** now I have to learn how to pivot before I have a right to cry about how awful my character is again

 

[leffen]

Fair-fthrow-tipper does 37% so it kills starting from zero

and you don't have any right to cry about marth regardless, esp since you're average at best

 

[Construct]

I'm not average; i'm the best player in the world, just playing a bad character

And the 33% was not counting the f-smash. So I suppose i should have said it starts killing around 53%

 

[leffen]

>_>

you travel from where you start (ie the middle) to the edges because of the fair+fthrow+dash, making it kill from 0% practically anywhere.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I'm not average; i'm the best player in the world, just playing a bad character

And the 33% was not counting the f-smash. So I suppose i should have said it starts killing around 53%

He also said assuming the puff player was holding down. Not no DI which is what you misread it as.

 

[ViperGold42]

Damn Cactuar, I saw your 2009 Genesis Singles matches, not bad bro. How did you prepare for that on your own?

 

[Construct]

Wow, after a quick test, that actually does kill from 0. Good find Leffen, I had a hard time believing marth could kill her that quick.

 

[knightpraetor]

jiggs will start adapting and just do neutral DI..but still, this will help a lot. i practiced it a little and it seemed pretty good in training mode. when does fthrow pivot fsmash work on sheik? mid percents? only on DI in?

just curious if anyone knew. I have a lot of problems but most of them are with sheik not jiggs

 

[leffen]

if she neutral DI's then you can combo nair->nair/fair etc and you can still combo tipper, it just kills ~10% later.

 

[Shroomed]

Just hit people with your sword stop being scrubs guys ****

Leffen MM my **** *** marth next time I see you with whatever character you want!

LETS DO THIS

 

[Dr Peepee]

you can DEFINITELY not DI the dthrow/fthrow mixup on reaction. Both of the throws are weight dependent, so because of puffs light weight its much faster than you think.
And yes, both of them need perfect down-away DI to be safe from pivot tipper (and then you still got regrab at some % and techchases)

Fthrow ->Tipper starts killing around 40% (FD, assuming middle stage). Considering how puff will always be holding down, it might kill even sooner. The matchup is ****ing 7-3 on YS lol, its ridiculous (fair/side b to grab).

This is not even mentioning that you can weakfair/uair to pivot tipper too >_>



random note: if you notice people planking (ie regrabing the ledge from below) try the better version of m2k's runoff->dair. Just jump->dair *slipoff* ->fastfall->grab the ledge. The down air hits waaay below the edge. If they delay their jump, you'll steal the ledge from them.

Another good mixup is to do it facing forward, so that you just edgecancel your dair (0 lag, not even autocancel lag) without slipoffing and then do whatever once the lag is over (dtilt, jab, counter, dash away, etc). Works a bit better against some characters and if you think they will jump backwards to regrab/side b (foxfalco for example) you can replace the downair with a forwardair (also hits below the edge if you time it properly).

This can of course be used as a edgeguard too (fair one is good vs side b cancels, downair->slipoff is **** against sheik/falcon/peach)

Yeah I knew the throws were faster because Puff is lighter, but I didn't know if they could be DI'd on reaction. I'll take your word that they cannot be and work on the throw stuff from there.


Couldn't they just hold in on the Fthrow and avoid dying even if you Fair to tipper them(talking about surviving the low % death combo here)?

Edgecanceling Dair/Fair(didn't think of that one) is super good I agree. I'll definitely look into it more, thanks for the idea and all of the useful information sir. =)

Fair ->fthrow/dthrow->Pivot tipper kills puff from ZERO on YS assuming she is holding down from ANYWHERE on the stage. If she would try to react with down away and fails, she dies fthrow/dthrow FIVE ****ING PERCENT


well nvm marth can't win a national Q_Q

WHOA this is too good haha.

if she neutral DI's then you can combo nair->nair/fair etc and you can still combo tipper, it just kills ~10% later.

Makes sense. Can you answer my question about DI'ing in on Fthrow please? I don't think she can be regrabbed then so I'm wondering how you'd tipper and get a kill out of that. If there isn't one then that's cool I'm just wondering if I'm missing something. If she DIs in I suppose it means I didn't trick her DI then(unless she always holds up maybe)?

 

[Tee ay eye]

lol yeah, its so funny that "american nationals" aren't considered a "national" until international players attend

we have such good grasp of things

there's no such thing as an american national anymore IMO.

people generally aren't going to travel from coast-to-coast except for the biggest tournaments, meaning that a tournament is generally gonna be a regional or an international. sure, some (10ish) might go for a big tournament like RoM, Big House, or Zenith, but i think those tournaments are way closer to being regionals than nationals than anything.

when i hear "nationals," i think about the old school big-boy tourneys like OC3, FCD, Pound 3, and whatnot. pretty much, the tournaments that used to be nationals just upgraded to internationals ever since Armada started pushing our **** in.

 

[leffen]

If puff DI's in/up you can just do a standing fsmash (tipper), utilt, nair

 

[Dr Peepee]

Okay that's about what I thought. Just making sure. Thanks again dude. =)

 

[Cactuar]

Damn Cactuar, I saw your 2009 Genesis Singles matches, not bad bro. How did you prepare for that on your own?

Aha. I didn't really practice for Genesis aside from the normal amount of playtime. There was a lot of drama going on in my personal life at the time, so smash wasn't a priority. I wouldn't have even gone if the tickets hadn't been purchased months ahead.

 

[Niko45]

lol me pc chris and otg all know how broken falco is

marth just can't win a national

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxra2Nn7K9Y&ob=av3e

 

[Metal Reeper]

Cactuar can you please bring back your silly efficient Marth? We miss it :/

 

[Shroomed]

Aha. I didn't really practice for Genesis aside from the normal amount of playtime. There was a lot of drama going on in my personal life at the time, so smash wasn't a priority. I wouldn't have even gone if the tickets hadn't been purchased months ahead.

You're lucky they chose HMW over me for that crew battle

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I need more recovery options against Ganon.
I feel like everytime I play against him my recovery game bascially devolves to this: if I go high, he just stands on the stage with his back towards me and late u-airs me.
So I stay outside the reverse sh uair range and drop down to jump and grab the edge, which is beaten by him just grabbing the edge as he sees me drop down, letting go and upair-ing me.
Only way I've been getting around it is to just drop all the way down and up-b to the edge if I feel an u-air from edge is coming. Works great, but I don't like going for guessing games.

Any other options Marth has recovering against a ganon/something I'm missing?

 

[.Chipmunk.]

So, wtf is up with side-b? Every time I think I've discovered how that move works something screwy comes along that warps my perception. I knew that if you side-b'd offstage then up-b'd back on, if you ran off stage and side-b'd again you'd drop instead of do the stall one cause you hadn't jumped yet (Learned that one last year). Now I've discovered that if you jump and side-b, then counter or neutral-b while still in the air. The next time you jump and side-b you won't do the stalled one. Why is this? I had been assuming that once you jumped from the stage you got your stall back.

 

[Zoler]

All this marth discussion is really cool and all but.. I mean.. aren't you guys fighting a lost cause..

Marth can't win a national

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Are you saying that stalling, then landing while in your neutral-b/counter animation won't refresh the stall? That's not right.
I know that you get your stall back by LANDING on the ground(going from hanging on the edge to standing on the stage won't do it unless you were in the air in between).
The exception being you won't refresh if you land in the middle of an aerial attack.
As far as I know, landing during any of your b-move animations still refresh your stall side-b.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, if you land during aerials then you won't get your side-B back. I've never heard of it happening with B-moves. You can also just WD (in place or otherwise) to refresh your side-B.

 

[ViperGold42]

You're lucky they chose HMW over me for that crew battle

dude I love your Mario and Doc. so entertaining to watch them fight against Fox/Falco and Marth. so fun.

 

[Niko45]

Since we've established Marth won't win nationals (god you guys were all so late on that btw), lets talk about which nationals specifically he won't be winning.

Taj is not going to Impulse right? I'll put that one down for starters.

 

[Bones0]

Taj plays Mewtwo, bro. Marth means he's sandbagging.

 

[ViperGold42]

Taj plays Mewtwo, bro. Marth means he's sandbagging.

I'm not surprised to hear about that.