Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Metal Reeper]

dsmash is also great for gtfo cause its frame 5 as well and a decent CC option but like up B you have to be confident it'll hit

I think Marth's should use Dsmash more. Or at least experiment with it.

 

[Bones0]

Fthrow dsmash is sexy.

 

[Bing]

I agree with Bones0, I love f-throw Dsmash, especially when it tippers >:D

 

[OverLord]

Marth's best move is Counter.

A move you can use on reaction and has to be predicted.


Just broken. Seriously.

 

[Bones0]

How is that different from any other move? >______>

 

[I R MarF]

Counter is really good if it causes the Invisible Ceiling Glitch or you use it to break momentum, but since 50% of the approaches for half the cast are grabs, its not a great thing to rely on.

 

[Bones0]

Counter is really good if it causes the Invisible Ceiling Glitch or you use it to break momentum, but since 50% of the approaches for half the cast are grabs, its not a great thing to rely on.

Both of those are demonstrated perfectly in THIS video.

 

[t-iceman]

I don't think there's really a purpose to a single hit nair, not gonna lie.

first hit nair is ****ing godlike, it thunders and you can do a move pretty quick after, for instance on falcon you can upthrow fair and if they land on a platform first hit nair to reverse up b. There is many more uses as well in combos for instance if you are going to get a double fair off of a short hop you can first hit nair to grab instead if they dont expect it

 

[Beat!]

Dsmash is really good. I tech chase with it quite often.



On my way back from a tourney in Norway. Got 9th out of about 40-50 people. I'm pretty satisfied =)

Also, I got carried by leffen to a 3rd place in teams LOL (we "should've" gotten second but we screwed up badly against Dev and Nedech).

 

[Mahie]

Good job Beat. Will there be any videos up? And did you use Marth in teams?

 

[Beat!]

Thanks =)

Yeah, there will be vids up. Dunno how many sets were recorded though. Pretty sure LFs and GFs were recorded. Pretty sure I wasn't recorded. At least not any sets where I played good haha

Yeah, I used Marth in teams. leffen has a superb understanding of doubles, so he knew how we were supposed to play, and it worked out fine.

 

[Niko45]

What tourney/is there a results thread?

 

[Veetaak]

Good stuff, Beat

 

[Beat!]

@Niko
Not yet, I wrote/am writing this on my way home.

Top 12 was
1. Armada
2. leffen
3. Dev
4. Nedech
5. Android
5. Acherontic
7. Tonberry
7. Thomas
9. Myself
9. M0ze
9. DJ Black
9. PotatoChips


@Veetaak
Thanks =)

 

[Divinokage]

How about this, if you are able to PS someone's aerial with Marth it usually knocks you back a little bit. I found the use of Ftilt in this situation can be really good to make your opponent gtfo with a move long enough to reach punishing the landing lag at the same time. I mean if you do a grounded move after a PS it definitely comes out 12 frames faster than just a regular move OOS. It's another possible option can rather trying to WD OOS to move away from the pressure. I tried to jab too in this position if Ftilt won't tipper, jab will, it seemed to work too lol.

 

[Bones0]

Ftilt is definitely not 12 frames faster than other OoS options... I am pretty sure grab, Up-B OoS, and fair OoS are all faster than powershield ftilt...

 

[Divinokage]

It's not the point of being faster, it's just another option if those other options won't reach.

 

[Bones0]

I mean if you do a grounded move after a PS it definitely comes out 12 frames faster than just a regular move OOS.

^Well you said that, which is horribly incorrect... Unless you were talking about PS ftilt vs. letting go of shield and ftilt? Wavelanding in place is faster than just letting your shield drop anyway.

 

[Divinokage]

Well I'm saying if you are able to PS a move then the PS with Marth pushes you back into a position where Jab or ftilt will tipper and you will be still on the ground. If you get caught in shield then those things won't happen in the first place. I just used the same principle like Ganon.. if someone aerials me then I can PS --> jab but I won't be able to shield the aerial into jab, it would be too slow. That's why a grounded move comes out faster.

 

[Fregadero]

This might be a bit of a lame question but I don't know the difference.

When chain grabbing spacies, is there an advantage to quickly rethrowing them instead of jabbing once (after their % is above 10 or so) and then rethrowing? I was watching some of m2k's marth and this came to mind.

 

[Metal Reeper]

^If you don't Uthrow right away it is possible for them to get out. Pummeling doesn't really matter in this situation.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You might want to pummel a couple times in that awkward time that most spacies get out to allow you to utilt the no DI. Other than that you're better off throwing immediately to prevent the mash out

 

[Fregadero]

Thanks thats what I figured the reason was. The fox I play the most doesn't break out of pummel after 10% or so.

What percent would you recommend pummeling at? Around 30 when the chain grab stops working?

 

[Beat!]

I usually start pummeling at around 17% because

1. It makes the first pivot grab easier, since your margin of error can be a tiny bit larger.
2. It reduces the amount of times you'll have to pivot grab.

Kinda depends on how much your opponent mashes though.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I've found that tossing spacies around as quick as possible really ****s with them mentally. It all happens so fast that many of them get overwhelmed trying to DI. If the chaingrab transitions to platforms, or you decide to dthrow techchase, they tend to act much more predictably than when given time to think.

I think the benefit of that far exceeds whatever measley percent you gain, so I try not to pummel as much as possible. Its useful if you are deliberately trying to mix up their DI though; M2K does this quite a bit -- for example pummeling once or twice facing the edge, feinting a fthrow, but then going for a bthrow gimmick while they DI down and away.

I also tend to pummel more in matchups where damage is more important; i.e. the floaty matchups.

 

[Beat!]

I was speaking about FD specifically, since Boat Mode asked about chain grabs. On other stages, I agree with you completely (it's good on FD too, but chain grabbing is guaranteed blahblahblah).

 

[Bones0]

From 0%, everyone should try fthrow, uthrow, dthrow. Leads into missed tech tippers like crazy. lol The spacie player goes "OMG fthrow chain grab hold away!" Then they DI in front of you for an easy regrab on the uthrow. "OMG uthrow chain grab!" Then they DI slightly behind, not expecting to have to tech. *tipper*
"FUUUUUU-"
"Problem? "

 

[Fregadero]

I'll keep all this in mind next time I play someone other than the one Sheik/Fox player I play w/ a lot. I just got in the habit of pummeling when I was worse at the chain grab. I can do the immediate rethrow just fine but I can't remember to until they're at mid 20's.

Bones that sounds cool I'll try it out

 

[Beat!]

Haha, I do that all the time, Bones. Hilariously satisfying combo (and also pretty damn good if used sparingly).


Yes, I'm aware that "all the time" and "sparingly" aren't the best of friends.

 

[MaxThunder]

^^damn i so wanted to point that out... then nticed you did it yourself=(...

 

[.Chipmunk.]

From 0%, everyone should try fthrow, uthrow, dthrow. Leads into missed tech tippers like crazy. lol The spacie player goes "OMG fthrow chain grab hold away!" Then they DI in front of you for an easy regrab on the uthrow. "OMG uthrow chain grab!" Then they DI slightly behind, not expecting to have to tech. *tipper*
"FUUUUUU-"
"Problem? "

uthrow strings to dthrow jab resets are fun too.

 

[Bones0]

Bthrow is better if you just want a jab reset. It's faster and doesn't send them as far in case they happen to DI behind you.

 

[Byped]

Ive been having a bit of a problem with marth's recovery against fox. I'll try to post some videos soon, but has anyone else noticed the lose/lose situation..? and if they haven't should i keep the videos hidden ? :X!



also, i havnt been here for a while.... so hi....

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

Ive been having a bit of a problem with marth's recovery against fox. I'll try to post some videos soon, but has anyone else noticed the lose/lose situation..? and if they haven't should i keep the videos hidden ? :X!



also, i havnt been here for a while.... so hi....

You're way too vague for us to have any idea what you're talking about. Videos or better description please

 

[Byped]

Ill summarize for now, but I'll get staged videos of the situation, asap. The problem is with Marth's F***'n recovery. If I try and sweet spot the dolphin-slash ( assuming the fox's edgeguard has taken my jump...). I get shined, no matter where I go. If I sweet-spot the ledge, I get shine-hogged ; if I try to get the stage, I get jc'd + doubleshined...


If I am lucky enough to have a jump, the fox ledgestalls for invnc-frames then drops and either shine/ backairs me or shines me in the middle of the dolphin slash... I havnt seen too many foxes edge guarding like thisso I was wondering how everyone has discouraged this behavior. I saw javi pull some of this bs from the apex matches but he wasn't as consistent :/. Any ideas?

 

[Cactuar]

LolMarthIsBad.

There is actually a technique with Fox right now that absolutely ruins Marth as he is recovering by removing possible options without even really doing anything. It's harsh.

 

[Byped]

Yeah, it was the same last time I checked. An hello cactuar. You probably don't remember me, but I was on a while back. My marth has gotten pretty wonky and I plan on posting vids soon. I would love to know what you think .

Anywho, we need some of the pro Marths out there to come up with some new bs. I have some fun ideas im working on ATM~ again, can't wait to start recording.

 

[Bing]

From 0%, everyone should try fthrow, uthrow, dthrow. Leads into missed tech tippers like crazy. lol The spacie player goes "OMG fthrow chain grab hold away!" Then they DI in front of you for an easy regrab on the uthrow. "OMG uthrow chain grab!" Then they DI slightly behind, not expecting to have to tech. *tipper*
"FUUUUUU-"
"Problem? "

I totally approve of this.

 

[JPOBS]

Someone should make a montage of M2k's edgeguarding, featuring mostly newer footage (so like, not the marth vs red falcon on yoshi's that is in every combo vid ever)

The song for the montage shall be Lady Gaga's "Edge of Glory"

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you mean PC chris' falcon?