Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010

[SmashBrother2008]

DDD's Nair is the only inhibiting factor I see in that.

 

[Kazz@]

If you do get the grab at 0%, then you could Fthrow to possibly shield the nair and then grab DDD for another Throw.

I would do a write-up, but the only decent D3 I know is ZMan, and he's usually too far away.

Dthrow > Ftilt is usually a solid string, but usually doesn't hit beyond 0-10%.

WHATEVERWRITEUPTIME

What you have against him:

* Pseudo-CG

I'm not a seasoned falcon, so somebody compile the rest of this.

What he has against you:

* His Dthrow
* A Projectile
* Bair
* A Shieldgrab that sets up nearly everything
* Ftilt usually spaces D3 far enough from you for you not to hit, really

Read above statement.

What you should do:

Key = Move he does*How to counter it

Bair*Something ranged like Ftilt unless he DIs twoards, then Jab>Jab>Grab or something like that

Dthrow*DI like a falcon should

Waddles/gordos*Powershield, then continue to approach bait if at all possible

Don't get grabbed

If anyone else has input on this MU, then please quote/edit this post.

 

[BigLord]

What you have against him:

* Pseudo-CG;
* He's a big targed, easy to knee and combo.

I'm not a seasoned falcon, so somebody compile the rest of this.

What he has against you:

* His Dthrow (chain-grab);
* A Projectile;
* Bair;
* A Shieldgrab that sets up nearly everything;
* Ftilt usually spaces D3 far enough from you for you not to hit, really.

Read above statement.

What you should do:

Key = Move he does*How to counter it

Bair*Something ranged like Ftilt unless he DIs twoards, then Jab>Jab>Grab or something like that

Dthrow*DI like a falcon should

Waddles/gordos*Powershield, then continue to approach bait if at all possible

Don't get grabbed

If anyone else has input on this MU, then please quote/edit this post.

Lazy edit, but whatever. The fact that DDD should eat less cake is actually an important factor in this match-up, IMO

 

[Zatchiel]

Lazy edit, but whatever. The fact that DDD should eat less cake is actually an important factor in this match-up, IMO

lol, funny yet true xD
Anybody know any way to reverse a reverse falcon punch? it sounds crazy, but its been done to D3s all the time..

 

[BigLord]

You probably mean a 360 Falcon Punch. Yes, it's very possible, but a little bit hard.

How does that help against D3, though?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm assuming that on FD it's possible to legitimately Falcon Punch DDD's recovery.

 

[BigLord]

It has a very big ending lag, I think it's possible with even a normal Falcon Punch.

Of course, most D3s will cancel the attack when it has reached its highest point, so...

 

[Darky-Sama]

Updated with Wario.

Am I missing anything?

 

[teluoborg]

Yup one or two things :
Grab release to Fsmash (angled up) is the most damaging thing you can do
Never try to shieldgrab Wario

Maybe more but I don't see it right now.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yup one or two things :
Grab release to Fsmash (angled up) is the most damaging thing you can do
Never try to shieldgrab Wario

Maybe more but I don't see it right now.

Not guaranteed. Recommended putting it, but it's escapable, even if you angle it upward. Wario can jump out of it at the last second. Tested it with a couple of people too while doing the writeup.

And yeah, shield grabbing is stupid. Wario just spaces his aerials and moves away from them anyway. Not like it'll hurt you too much, but eh.

 

[teluoborg]

No, the reason why shieldgrabbing sucks against Wario is the bite.

 

[BigLord]

That's why you should rickroll him as often as possible. Just don't be stupid and overdoit with the rolls.

However, it IS possible to shieldgrab a Wario... if you get him by surprise. Just don't do it as a regular strategy and you'll be fine.

 

[Darky-Sama]

You should be playing a bit more offensively than just shielding from Wario every time he comes near you, though. Wario's bite is extremely useful against Falcon regardless of what you do, unless you space your aerials or mindgame him, then punish.

Which is one of the main reasons that Wario still has the advantage over us.

 

[teluoborg]

Yes, the reason why Falcon-Wario isn't worse than 4-6 is because Falcon can (and must) outspeed Wario. Simply don't shield when Wario's in the air.



So, back on the Ftrap topic.

Hmm I looked at DDD's frame data :
spot dodge active on frame 2
Roll active on frame 4
Grab active on frame 6

So there are 2 possibilities :
-The person I tested with didn't know how to buffer grabs
-D3 doesn't have a 6 frames window during the Ftrap

Needs more testing...

More testing has been done.

Results :
the Ftrap is separated in 2 parts : 0-29% and 30-40%

-At 0-29% DDD doesn't enter a tumble animation when Fthrown. He suffers hitstun until he touches the ground and therefore cannot do any aerial. To get out of it he must buffer a roll or a spotdodge. Grab or jab are too slow to have their hitbox out before you regrab him.
-at 30-40% D3 enters a tumble animation and can escape the grab by airdodging to buffered roll/dodge/grab or by simply doing nothing and falling to the ground/teching. Anything else can result in D3 eating a grab again or a dash attack.

Then the more the %, the more DDD can do before you reach him.


I have a replay of me doing it right (that someone could upload), but it wouldn't show anything except the timing.
Because you know, a video can't prove that something is inescapable (and I don't have the material to frame-prove it).

But still I cannot stress enough how legit it is because it forces DDD to roll/dodge.

 

[Iwan]

A good wario player will punish you nearly everytime you shield grab, this coming from someone who got ***** by Fiction at tourneyplay 2 way back in the summer. Also, it's hard to "outspeed" wario when Wario's faster than falcon.

Just some thoughts.

Also: What is this ftrap you speak of O_O....I've been gone for a while.

 

[lordhelmet]

A good wario player will punish you nearly everytime you shield grab, this coming from someone who got ***** by Fiction at tourneyplay 2 way back in the summer. Also, it's hard to "outspeed" wario when Wario's faster than falcon.

Just some thoughts.

Also: What is this ftrap you speak of O_O....I've been gone for a while.

Fiction is another story xDD

But yeah, don't be predictable with your grabs and use them to punish Wario if you can.

 

[teluoborg]

Also, it's hard to "outspeed" wario when Wario's faster than falcon.

Just some thoughts.

Also: What is this ftrap you speak of O_O....I've been gone for a while.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Falcon's running speed beat Wario's drift speed ?

And the Ftrap is a frame trap Falcon has on DDD (and possibly some other characters) with Fthrow and buffered dash, and "Ftrap" sounds cooler than "not really a CG using Fthrow". It's all new, you can find all the other posts in the last 2 pages.

Oh and I'm probably the only one thinking it's smart to try to CG DDD lol.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Obviously, a skilled Wario is going to know how to avoid getting grabbed, so it's only going to make things that much more difficult for a Falcon to really get around. Wario's superior to Falcon in almost every way. We have speed, up air and our grab game. That's about it. Those three factors are what makes this match-up what it is right now.

Everything else can be out maneuvered someway or the other by Wario. For Wario, it's the "Don't get grabbed" factor, for us it's "Don't get chomped".

 

[Player-3]

iwan is sexy

 

[Kazz@]

Sooooo

Wario. Never played a good one.

Although, I think the matchup's slightly closer to 55-45, because falcon can cut through a lot of things that wario has.

Wario can just air camp like an ***hole, so you can't really get at him.

 

[Darky-Sama]

It's a tough call on the ratio. It really all depends on how well the Wario is at not getting grabbed, in all honesty. Without the grab release, this match-up would be pitiful for us.

Wario is superior to Falcon though, in nearly all possible factors. 45:55 sounds more accurate, but we'll go with 40:60, considering a professional Wario will know how to play the match-up and avoid some of the common setups for our grab game.

It's nowhere near as bad as people use to consider it though. What was it? 25:75 or 30:70? Hah...

 

[Kishin]

65-35 at the very least imo. Good Warios are a ***** to even hit with Falcon. It's a lot harder to overwhelm Warios with Falcon's speed with the insane air mobility Wario has.

 

[†Slader7†]

So Wario has the air but we destroy him with our Grabs.

But how about his bike?
How can we get around it?

 

[lordhelmet]

So Wario has the air but we destroy him with our Grabs.

But how about his bike?
How can we get around it?

Knee or up-b

 

[teluoborg]

Th bike is just a trick, all you have to do is hit Wario and you can do it with any attacks, even jab or grab work if you time them.

And no Wario doesn't destroy Falcon in the air. If he does it means you're not using enough Bairs/Uairs.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Unless Wario starts to lift up on the front tire, then you have a problem. Smacking him with an aerial isn't a problem though. Knee of Justice hits without failure -- and if you find difficulty in kneeing the bike, you should quit being a Captain Falcon main.

The Bike shouldn't be a problem whatsoever if you hold your shield up and shield grab Wario off of it, though.

 

[Lionman]

I find wario an easy match up, yeah, he is high tier and he can be a problem but grab release give us easy ways to build damage and killing.

His areals are strong but Falcon aerial game is pretty good if you know how to use it.

Maybe a top player Wario can beat my Falcon "It happened with ZSS match-up" but most Wario players cant handle a Falcon who knows the match up.

1. Spacing
2. Dont eat his Fsmash
3. Grab release abuse

Wario is hard to kill because his DI power and weight is insane.

Here is a video, the Wario sucks but maybe this can help "I play really bad on these but i show some grab release"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3NcFLRRTyg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMY47AmAkb0

 

[Darky-Sama]

KOing Wario isn't really a problem, assuming you didn't stale your knee at all. 90% should be the average KO percentage from a grab release -> Knee of Justice, that's taking DI into consideration as well.

Also:
Good s***, Lion.
Rather the Wario was good or not, just watching him getting hit by the canceled jab over and over made me laugh. I should throw those videos into the MU section just as an example.

 

[BigLord]

Just passing by to say that I've never fought a really good Wario main either, lol. So I don't have any kind of useful advice to give, I can only ask:

If you Knee the bike, does it hit Wario too?

 

[lordhelmet]

Just passing by to say that I've never fought a really good Wario main either, lol. So I don't have any kind of useful advice to give, I can only ask:

If you Knee the bike, does it hit Wario too?

Yes, the bike is an item so it extends the Knee's hitbox.

 

[Lionman]

Yes, the bike is an item so it extends the Knee's hitbox.

Depend where you hit

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'd rather go for a F-smash against the Bike personally.

 

[Kazz@]

I'd go for a utilt/Dmsash

If I feel good I'll go for a knee

 

[Acedude55]

If a wario ever bikes at me, I u-air or grab him out of it...

 

[Darky-Sama]

Hitting a solid object increases the hitbox by about an inch. Kneeing Wario off the bike isn't too difficult, but eh. It's the perfect time to use something that won't stale your kill moves.

I'd still recommend shield -> shield grab -> Pummel -> Release -> Up+B.

More damage. lmao

 

[Player-3]

just use this

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/388/rapenk.jpg

 

[Darky-Sama]

At first, I was like "Eh...", then I noticed the tripod. Necessity in everyone's lives.

 

[BigLord]

If we're going to enable items... This should take care of Wario:

**** is this thing overpowered or what?

 

[Player-3]

i don't know darky

wood sights and tactical oral hygiene apparatuses are important


so are magazine lauchers

 

[teluoborg]

Is this thread dead ?