Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010

[Darky-Sama]

I don't really want it to die yet.

So lets bump it with a question.

Did we ever do the Falco Match-Up? I don't remember seeing much of a discussion on that one.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Okay I just got a lot of experience vs Falco, so here's my input.

Falco has a chaingrab and lasers, and he has a number of high priority aerials and a F-tilt that is better than yours...suffice to say, this will not be an easy matchup by any means.

So he'll probably eventually grab you after spotdodging some random **** and you'll take a lot of damage, fortunately he has a lot of trouble actually killing Falcon and really doesn't have very consistent gimps on Falcon. His best KO move is Up-smash and Falcon survives vertical kills for a looooong time, and after that he has B-air, which you'll also survive for a long time as long as you have good DI.

His U-tilt will anti-air the **** out of a lot of your stuff, it's gay, and he can U-tilt out of spotdodge when you whiff and it's nasty. Falcon at least isn't horrible at punishing those spotdodges. Lingering hitboxes of B-air, DA, Falcon Kick, Jabs all can help you get him when he spotdodges. Juggling him is nice, but his D-air and B-air have sick priority and will probably trade hits with your stuff at minimum (or sometimes just blatantly win) if you don't have equally sick spacing to work around them.

So anyhow yes Falco has trouble killing Falcon...sadly it's even harder for Falcon to kill Falco. Falcon's best KO moves are slow and usually punished by Falco's laser camping or spotdodge. The "best" way to kill Falco is finding a way to hit him out of his recovery with U-air/B-air.

In short Falco in some ways doesn't exactly have the power to run over and destroy Falcon, but at the same time there is a lot that Falcon really can't do to Falco very feasibly.

I'd say this matchup is solidly 7/3 Falco, no better or worse. IMO it's kinda like dealing with Snake in that you're dealing with camping and a solid fortress of amazing grounded options, except Falco is also harder to juggle/edgeguard.

I think one of my personal problems with this matchup in general is just dealing with Falco's spotdodge in general. It's just too stupid.

 

[BigLord]

^Spotdodging is an adquired skill, learning how to spotdodge correctly takes time, it's probably your opponent that is quite skilled

But I concur with that. If well played, a Falco can totally destroy Captain Falcon. Also, don't forget Falco's jab. It isn't faster than ours but ****, is it GOOD!

 

[lordhelmet]

We did discuss Falco, we agreed to 30-70.

And after playing two really good Falcos in the last week, I still agree to 30-70.

 

[A2ZOMG]

^Spotdodging is an adquired skill, learning how to spotdodge correctly takes time, it's probably your opponent that is quite skilled

But I concur with that. If well played, a Falco can totally destroy Captain Falcon. Also, don't forget Falco's jab. It isn't faster than ours but ****, is it GOOD!

If I'm correct, Falco's Jab in fact is faster than Falcon's by one frame. Falco's Jab is 2 frames, while Falcon's is 3.

Falcon's Jabs have better advantage on hit (Falco's jab1 actually has negative advantage on hit when he Jab cancels), but Falco's Jab has more range and a better rapid Jab sequence.

 

[BigLord]

Yes, I wasn't sure about the speed. Glad to know that, no wonder I was able to beat my Falco main opponent when he forgot about Falco's jab.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well I do hope the Falco matchup gets updated to the first page soon.

And I'll just say...Falcon vs Luigi is a very unfun matchup, and even a terrible Luigi player can make your life miserable. If you make a slight mistake in spacing ever, you get N-aired out of it...and he can N-air out of Jabs as well, which sucks. The fact Luigi slides away a lot on block doesn't really hurt him much in this matchup when U-tilting or U-smashing aerial approaches is probably what he wants to do.

The matchup is more gay than bad...but wow, it's SUPER DUPER FRICKEN GAY.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Even if we discussed it, continue, since more ideas are being thrown out here.

70:30 still seems accurate to me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Does Falcon have a random GR combo on Falco? That could be fairly significant in this matchup if it exists. I was wondering since after all he does get air release comboed a fair bit.

But besides that if you're playing to win this matchup, it will really test your patience in the Falco is good. A lot of your time will be spent powershielding/dodging lasers and exerting stage control, trying to tickle your way in around his high priority moves/spotdodge, or baiting his SideB. Jump ins are generally risky, so usually the safest option is punishing his commitments with F-tilt from my experience.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Short hop air dodge does wonders in this match-up because of Falco's lasers and side+B. All Falco really has to do in this match-up is laser -> side+B -> laser -> side+B for the majority of the match. That alone puts Falcon at a large disadvantage. At least you can approach with the airdodges and be somewhat safe.

Edit: Falco usually ground breaks against Falcon. I believe it depends on how much the opponent is mashing their buttons to get out, but we can't simply wait and he'll immediately air break just like that. I could be wrong, but I attempted it by just holding Falco with (and without) pummeling in training mode, on an inactive Falco. He would ground break every time. Then when I changed it to a level nine computer, he would randomly air break and ground break every other time.

Edit #2: Grab Release -> Buffered dash attack apparently works. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but getting someone to hold in the shield button after Falco got grabbed released, it wouldn't allow the shield to come up in time. rofl

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh, well that's too bad, I guess then he'll only air release over the edge.

 

[teluoborg]

He air releases when :
1-he is at the ledge
2-the last thing he input before breaking the grab is jump.

And when in his air release animation Falco goes as far as Squirtle.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Regrab and dash attack work on him when he does though. lolol.

 

[lordhelmet]

Guys, if their feet don't touch the ground when they're being held by Falcon they will air release. If their feet do touch the ground, then they will always ground release unless they hit "jump"

 

[teluoborg]

No it's not that easy.
Diddy's feet don't touch the ground but he ground releases.
Ivy's half sunk in the ground but she air releases.

The correct list is in the grab release thread.

 

[smashkng]

Luigi is a terrible matchup for Falcon. His aerials are lagless and have insane priority, and when you have no disjoints (except a move that is grounded and not aerial), your life is extremely difficult. Also, he has very powerful moves, like Uangled Fsmash and sweetspot Up b. Luigi has a really good jab. And Falcon falls so fast that Luigi can easily juggle Falcon.

I think the best option is try to get the lead and camp him after, he has a really bad mobility.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Personally, I think a good Luigi can be nearly as devastating to Falcon as Falco is, if not worse. Falco has chaingrabs, but Luigi has some ridiculous follow-ups on us after his random up tilt spamming until like... uhhh... 35% I think? That's much worse than a chaingrab in my opinion.

Plus, kill potential. Even being a heavy character, Luigi can KO us at percents below 100%.

Hate Luigi, but eh. That's not what our discussion is right now.

 

[lordhelmet]

No it's not that easy.
Diddy's feet don't touch the ground but he ground releases.
Ivy's half sunk in the ground but she air releases.

The correct list is in the grab release thread.

Diddy's feet DO touch the ground.

 

[Acedude55]

Prioritys a myth

 

[Darky-Sama]

Prioritys a myth

^
Quote for truth.

Also, I lol'd.

 

[teluoborg]

If you ever get Utilt locked by Luigi just SDI up and mash jump
-if the Luigi just keeps on Utilting you'll escape it
-if he sees you and tries to follow up with a Uair you'll footstool him

Also I'm starting to think the Luigi matchup is not that bad. Still hard but you just have to stay at max Ftilt/Uair range (so that Nair shouldn't touch you), never be in Luigi's back (because of his Bair) and jab the cyclone.

In fact what's horrible is that you have to play your Falcon differently in every matchup. In extreme ways.


PS : What matchup are we discussing now ?

 

[Lionman]

Luigi is hard but he slices

Ftilts-Utilts works really well in this match up because he cant shieldgrab them "Except a perfect shield in a close range".

his Nair ***** most of Falcon´s moveset and can kill you, be careful

His SideB can be kneed or punished "If you are mainless you can Falcon Punch it", his tornado recovery can kill you if you try to punish it, wait the end of the hit frames before punish it with a Bair, Uair, a Knee or a Dair in that order of prefference

Use Bair to kill him, he is a light character, bair is easy to land against Luigi and has enough priority to land.

 

[A2ZOMG]

idk I suggested Luigi because a scrub Luigi almost beat me by spamming random ****.

It's really a very unfun matchup. It's more unfun than horrible.

 

[lordhelmet]

So we are discussing Weegee now? I'd say 35-65, I agree with what pretty much everyone has said.

Edit: Just played a Weegee, gonna say 30-70 now ahah.

 

[Darky-Sama]

We weren't suppose'ta be discussing Luigi, but I guess we can since we're already discussing it.

I need to do a Falco and Bowser write-up.

 

[BigLord]

Isn't Luigi CPU the best lvl9 bot in Brawl?

Even he knows of the Luigi nair power... geez, that bot's tough.

Fortunately I don't know any Luigi mains... fortunately.

 

[Acedude55]

U-air beats luigis n-air

 

[Darky-Sama]

The Nair comes out much quicker than all his other attacks though IIRC. Plus, it stays out longer and lifts characters straight upward for easy comboing. I hate Luigi's ability to follow up after his Nair. Sheesh.

 

[teluoborg]

Yes Nair comes out on frame 3, but I think Acedude meant that Uair beats it because it outranges it, like if you stay at Uair range you'll never eat a Nair.

Same for its jab, it comes out on frame 2 so don't try to beat it, just stay out of range and spam tilts.

There are 2 things you need to avoid **** in the Luigi MU,
1-he has no horizontal range save for his Bair, Cyclone and fireballz.
2-his grounded cyclone can be stopped by jabs or tilts.

 

[lordhelmet]

I hate Luigi so much =_=

I couldn't even beat Kingheart's Luigi until I CP'd Snack.

30-70 is still my opinion.

 

[BigLord]

So... in order to beat Luigi, we need to try to approach him in a GROUND level of play?

Whoa.

 

[Kishin]

Tip: Be extremely cautious on approaching. If you're getting too much pressure while trying to approach just back off with a roll or something.

 

[BigLord]

Trying to force opponents to approach is a good idea most of the time, too. Except when they have good projectiles (like Falco).

In that case, powershielding works.

 

[lordhelmet]

Trying to force opponents to approach is a good idea most of the time, too. Except when they have good projectiles (like Falco).

In that case, powershielding works.

Letting the opponent approach is good. Too bad most players won't fall for Falcon's baiting... I find myself approaching most of the time.

 

[bigbucks]

This thread is horridead

Still better than the aib falcon forums. >_>
good job swf. for once. xD
edit: first post on boring swf, aib ftw.

 

[lordhelmet]

This thread is horridead

Still better than the aib falcon forums. >_>
good job swf. for once. xD
edit: first post on boring swf, aib ftw.

I hate to say it, but you're right lol.

Darky is in New York at the moment, he'll probably work on updating all of this stuff when he comes back.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yeah, sorry about that guys. I plan on catching up on this thread when I get back from New York. I've been traveling around too much lately. Bah.

 

[BigLord]

Letting the opponent approach is good. Too bad most players won't fall for Falcon's baiting... I find myself approaching most of the time.

Same. It's like I'm just way too agressive for my own good, lol.

Besides, I like Kneeing

 

[Darky-Sama]

Getting Luigi above us is the best option. Luigi's air game is definantly one of the best in the game and it can be extremely stressful for a Falcon to get around it if Luigi forces us above him. Uair is our best friend when going against Luigi in the air. Quick, range, best option for spacing and easily spammable.

For our ground game, don't do anything that's easily punishable. As much as I love using Raptor Boost, avoid using it in this match-up. Utilt, Jab, Grab and Shield. Necessary for this match-up, abuse them. Sometimes I like to use Ftilt in this match-up as well because Luigi slides a lot under shield pressure, so it's generally safe and decent for spacing on the ground.

35:65 is probably the most accurate for Falcon vs. Luigi.

 

[bigbucks]

After weegee we should discuss oli.

It's really horrible. you'r best bet is cping RC, or frigate or japes..

Ontotheweegeematchup:

Weegee can be a pain to the *** for us in the air, I can't seem to beat that nair, even with spaced uairs, they always trade hits. .

Most weegees like baiting you with dair then come off with nair by surprise.
Nair can break any type of strings we have easily. Annoying as hell.
those god damm utit combos are hell as well, it doesn't help that our character is a fastfaller. >_>

So here are some tips i have against weegee(haven't had ALOT of experience with them but still)

- avoid utits at low percents, utits chains may deal around 20% with di, not counting the other options like nair,uair or bair,.

-abuse your decent horizontal range, weegee doesn't have good horizontal range, with the exception of bair.

-abuse uair, utit an ftits

I reccomend staying grounded as well , except if your sure you can hit with a uair.