Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010

[Laem]

so, does CF now have even or better matchups vs link, zelda, jiggs and samus?

 

[Gardex]

Change of tier list placement does not change match up ratios.

 

[bigbucks]

Pretty much.

It's more dependant on tourney placements. allys tourneys placings with cf is what moved him up.

 

[Darky-Sama]

It doesn't affect the match-ups at all. However, I can honestly conclude that Falcon holds just as much of an advantage in most of his match-ups as they do. Ganondorf and Link, he has an easier time. Zelda, probably about the same. He might have more potential than Zelda overall, but she's still a tad bit better in my honest opinion. Not that it really matters much, the tier list doesn't change anything; just how we're viewed. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[teluoborg]

Getting Luigi above us is the best option.

Not really.
Look at Luigi's cyclone
HERE
It's massively disjointed under him and will beat every Uair attempt.
Now, if the Luigi doesn't do a cyclone when you're under him Uair him to death.

 

[bigbucks]

weegee looks like a snowman in that pic

 

[Laem]

Not really.
Look at Luigi's cyclone
HERE
It's massively disjointed under him and will beat every Uair attempt.
Now, if the Luigi doesn't do a cyclone when you're under him Uair him to death.

without testing im pretty sure itll just trade hits/beat downb all the time which is good for CF.

But really, falcon's rise is due to ally only? i doubt it. I think your underestimating the value of matchups(vs MK or the rest of the cast is for another day) in the tierlist.
Besides this, i wouldnt be suprised if falcon beats jiggs n samus, with all the progress being made in those matchups which you seem to be in denial of

 

[bigbucks]

Falcon does horribly against some characters. pretty much unwinnable

ICs, GAW, Falco,Olimar, mk.

The only falcon that can take this challenge is ally .

he has beaten lains ics once, Lains Mk, dont know about the others

 

[teluoborg]

without testing im pretty sure itll just trade hits/beat downb all the time which is good for CF.

Well for testing it a thousand times with a thousand different timings I can assure you that you'll lose if you try to Uair a cyclone.

Of course you can go Uair before the cyclone starts because it has some starting lag, but during the cyclone the only thing you can do is attack the sides with Bair/Uair/dive.

 

[lordhelmet]

I got a good game against SmashGod's Luigi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaX_U0OgrT8

The video is still processing so the quality is a bit poopy, but check it out.

 

[†Slader7†]

Wow Lord, epic finish.

 

[Laem]

Well for testing it a thousand times with a thousand different timings I can assure you that you'll lose if you try to Uair a cyclone.

Of course you can go Uair before the cyclone starts because it has some starting lag, but during the cyclone the only thing you can do is attack the sides with Bair/Uair/dive.

ran some tests meself and cf's uair beat the downb nearly every time(rarely they traded hits instead) >.>
crazy *** falcon mainers.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Until Falco mains start SDIing out of it, Gentleman canceling is REALLY REALLY ***ING AMAZING against Falco.

His fall speed makes him easily comboed by it so yeah.

 

[Thirtyfour]

Falcon does horribly against some characters. pretty much unwinnable

ICs, GAW, Falco,Olimar, mk.

The only falcon that can take this challenge is ally .

he has beaten lains ics once, Lains Mk, dont know about the others

It is posts like these that make me not even bother helping other Falcons get better.

Lol at Oli GW and Falco being unwinnable

seriously get better.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno about you, those matchups look fundamentally harder than the Ice Climbers if you ask me. I mean the ICs are fairly easy to run circles around. The others...they can do a really good job of preventing you from doing that.

 

[Player-3]

i never understood why people though falco was so bad

ICs yeah, oli is really really annoying yeah but not super terribad
GW pretty much gets ***** by smart players because he shuts chars down with like... one move, bair

which is actually not that great

 

[A2ZOMG]

How does Falcon really significantly punish Falco's spotdodge? And keep in mind, Falco can actually spotdodge after Jab cancels to avoid a grab....it's gay. And his B-air is stupid for Falcon to work around.

Uh no, G&W shuts you down with (fullhop) F-air and D-tilt walls, kinda like Marth. And he has really really safe Smashes that kill you super early and juggles you forever with N-air/U-air, both of which can be used to combo into those Smashes.

And Olimar like...not only is Falcon kinda bad at dealing with Pikmin camping, Olimar is REEEEALY short, and doesn't get gimped super easily by Falcon.

 

[Player-3]

how does a full hop fair wall falcon at all


dtilt doesn't wall at all really it just kinda says gtfo

uh.... grab falco out of it? unless his spotdodge is unpunishable or something


olly is stupid but not terrbile, he dies fast and one grab can get some good damage on him

 

[A2ZOMG]

how does a full hop fair wall falcon at all

Firstoff you have to keep in mind that G&W is able to hit most characters with fullhop F-air, which is pretty virtually safe, and that it doesn't have much ending lag after the hitbox is over. So yeah, it's actually really gay to punish. And he can kinda spam it to approach since it's fast and gets you offstage.

dtilt doesn't wall at all really it just kinda says gtfo

It stops most of Falcon's aerial approaches though.

Plus G&W is one of the better characters at gimping Falcon as well as his weak hit F-air usually sets up an edgehog.

uh.... grab falco out of it? unless his spotdodge is unpunishable or something

Yeah, I mean I would do that myself except his spotdodge only has 2 frames of ending lag.

idk about Olimar dying fast. Falcon isn't good at gimping most of the time, and landing a kill move on Olimar is really hard, especially since whiffing = getting grabbed, and getting grabbed = getting ***** by his combos too.

 

[Player-3]

it doesn't wall though

just run under him and grab him when he lands

 

[lordhelmet]

To the people saying Falco isn't hard:

Try playing a Falco that sits at the opposite end of the stage SHSL'ing the entire game. By the time you get close enough you'll get grabbed or punished in some way. Oh and the Falco can phantasm over to the other side of the stage and start the process all over.

 

[A2ZOMG]

it doesn't wall though

just run under him and grab him when he lands

But he can do stuff out of his F-air BEFORE he lands (including a 2nd F-air for that matter), and no he's not in shieldgrab height when that happens.

 

[Player-3]

really?

wow i need to play gnw more

 

[Darky-Sama]

It is posts like these that make me not even bother helping other Falcons get better.

Lol at Oli GW and Falco being unwinnable

seriously get better.

I actually agree with this.

G&h isn't really that bad to me. Even if he's a ridiculous character, Falcon stands a pretty decent chance against him if you know what you're doing. Just shield a lot and play smart. G&W is going to smack you around if you keep going in for stupid, predictable s***.

Just watch what the opponent is doing and punish. G&W's attacks are easy as hell to punish since they're all so predictable. Attacks that people complain so much about? Lets see...

G&W's Dair:
Dash -> SH-Dair while hes landing.
Dash -> Spaced SH-Bair.

G&W's Bair:
Shield -> Grab.
Shield -> Jab.

G&W's Smashes:
Shield -> Grab {if in range}.
Shield -> Utilt {if pressured too far away}.

Just play smart with your aerials and be ready to shield if you're within G&W's range.

It might not be as easy as that makes it sound, but seriously, people give G&W way too much credit in this match-up just because they lack patience. He's one of the characters you HAVE to play defensive against if you want to win.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Most good G&W players only use D-air to stop juggles or edgeguard, and furthermore G&W does A LOT better in this matchup throwing out F-airs than B-airs which do more damage and knockback, since G&W's focus in this matchup is simply gimping Falcon (weak hit F-air does this very easily). You have to keep in mind that G&W's fullhop F-air is able to hit most characters that stand on the ground.

You're really not going to grab or U-tilt him out of Smashes unless you powershield them (which he can throw off with charge releases).

Plus he has footsies with Jabs and D-tilt, the former of which leads into grabs (getting techchased on prediction sucks, or getting juggled from U-throw for that matter), the latter of which stops most of Falcon's approaches. Getting juggled by U-tilt at low percents isn't fun either.

You do have a better Jab and Up-B out of shield can annoy him a bit, but offensively he just runs Falcon over with better juggles, pokes, and edgeguards, and juggling him is annoyingly hard when his aerials are generally better and beat yours.

The main thing I find really bad in this matchup for Falcon is the difficulty of juggling, since G&W usually doesn't have to airdodge Falcon's juggles. Similarly, Falco tends to be able to beat a lot of your juggles by throwing out B-airs/D-airs, making the matchup really horribly tedious.

 

[Player-3]

See >_>

Falco is only hard if they camp for 8 minutes...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Y'know I just realized, my friend who mains Snake and Falco actually does willingly camp for 8 minutes in friendlies.

Snake is easier than Falco by far though.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Falco is much worse than Snake.

Falcon can't do too much against a Falco that SH-Phantasms when you get close and camps with lasers. Unless you counterpick a stage that limits him, I see that match-up nearly 25:75 in Falco's favor.

Regardless of the counterpick, Falco can still be a pain in the neck.

 

[NeoBatou]

Falco is much worse than Snake.

Falcon can't do too much against a Falco that SH-Phantasms when you get close and camps with lasers. Unless you counterpick a stage that limits him, I see that match-up nearly 25:75 in Falco's favor.

Regardless of the counterpick, Falco can still be a pain in the neck.

If his laser's didn't make Falcon flinch after each hit then CF might bave a more better chance against Falco but not by much.

The SH laser camping is CF's worst nightmare.....and mine as well haha..

 

[A2ZOMG]

So yeah not only does Falco laser camp you, he has better priority than you on most attacks and a broken spotdodge, and he actually can spotdodge jab cancels to grabs (although Gentleman cancel is pretty good on him).

And juggling him is iffy because his aerials have pretty big fluffy hitboxes while Falcon has manly muscle-bound hitboxes. Not to mention his aerials don't lag much, so waiting them out doesn't really guarantee you an opportunity to punish like it does against Snake.

 

[Kishin]

Realistically, Falco players probably wouldn't go through the effort to camp low tier Falcon for 8 minutes unless they actually started losing. Backflipping + powershielding + full jump approaches (easier with platforms) can help get through lasers.

 

[A2ZOMG]

My friend says otherwise...he laser camps me all day in friendlies haha.

imo getting past lasers isn't necessarily the hard part (I am mostly comfortable powershielding lasers and his SideB), it's the fact that once you get past them, you have to deal with a superior movepool that generally beats yours and a broken spotdodge that is very difficult to punish significantly.

 

[lordhelmet]

Guys, Falco will laser camp you regardless of using Falcon or not. Don't count on them playing "fair" and don't judge the match-up as if all Falcos played "fair".

 

[Darky-Sama]

Exactly. If a person wants do win, they won't underestimate Falcon and change their play style just to show off or make things more level-based. A good player wouldn't underestimate Falcon anyway.

 

[Ramzeh]

Realistically, Falco players probably wouldn't go through the effort to camp low tier Falcon for 8 minutes

.

 

[King Omega]

Y'know I just realized, my friend who mains Snake and Falco actually does willingly camp for 8 minutes in friendlies.

Snake is easier than Falco by far though.

Snake's camping isn't usually a massive threat.

Tier difference notwithstanding, I say Snake is a good matchup for Falcon. He's pretty slow and heavy as hell, spikable to a severe extent when knocked low (think bair knockback, not fsmash; of course he can just recover high from that), and Falcon can easily inavde his personal space bubble.
If you can make it through the 'Nade camping, the only move Snake has that can really shut down Falcon's approach is the utilt. If they do throw one out, an airdodge should have you landing behind the Snake and put you in a nice position for a grab. Snake's ftilt is very shield --> utiltable, or you can spotdodge the second hit and jab or grab. Once you're next to Snake, getting the grab amid the ftilt/utilt/SH aerial attempts (last one is rare, but a prescient Sanke might try a double-SH dair) shouldn't be too difficult.

Actually, Snake's best option is to get the heck away with a DACUS because Falcon can really work him over at very close quarters.

Plus, dthrow --> pivot grab --> uthrow --> aerial works well on Snake. And before someone reminds me, I know... "airdodging exists."

 

[Darky-Sama]

A good Snake won't make things easy at all. Snake's camping isn't "too difficult", plus he's one of the easier characters to read and punish. You just have to watch out because he demolishes us in ground game in means of priority and range.

If you can bait him into using something, hes ridiculously easy to punish. His recovery and air game is garbage compared to ours, so we can easily punish him for both of those. Again, he simply has rage and knock back for those as well. Snake's Nair is our biggest threat when it comes down to air games.

He's definantly a tough match-up for any character though. Especially if you're playing a professional Snake who knows how to bait and punish. Snake has some of -- if not the best punishing options in the game considering he has such a variety of attacks with range, knock back, priority and setups; not to mention explosives as well.

He forces you to go where he wants. Simple as that.

 

[bigbucks]

Oli is super bad. >_>


I can't do anything with his enormous grab range. everything i do gets me shieldgrabbed.
You will be surprised how hard it is to get a grab against a good olimar(played an olimar that supossedly beat dabuz once, he ***** me hard, until i cp'ed rc, which it then winded up in a 1 stock. :/)

The olimar has to make a big ****ing mistake so you can get a grab in. thats where we shine.

I reccomend cp'ing rc or Frigate(imo i find RC better in general)
The oli told me that olis hate japes. played him there. don't know whats the big deal. but go there as well if you'r feeling lucky.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh yeah the water kills his Pikmin.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Rainbow Cruise: Watch out for Olimar's Nair -> Upsmash. It can cause insanely early kills when near the upper platforms on the screen. Other than that, Olimar has difficulty moving around the stage and his Pikmin can desync a LOT.

Jungle Japes: Larger stage helps you live longer than Olimar in each direction, and he has difficulty recovering because hes a tether recovering character. Unless he mashes a button to make his Pikmin retract after hitting the ledge, he'll hit the water and his Pikmin will all die. Practically a stock in your favor in most cases.

Frigate: Somewhat so-so. People like to believe Frigate owns ZSS and Olimar because they recover with tethers and one portion of the stage lacks a ledge to grapple on, but it's really not a bad stage for Olimar either. Pretty easy kills there. It's pretty even on that stage.


Rainbow Cruise and Jungle Japes are your best bets though.