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Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010
- Thread starter Darky-Sama
- Start date
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bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
So whats the neutral of choice?
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
I would actually say Pokemon Stadium: Melee.
Battlefield, perhaps. Falcon doesn't have enough room to safely approach and punish Olimar. Normally where I'd say Falcon demolishes characters on Battlefield, it's hard to stay that applies to Olimar. The only thing Falcon has going for him on this stage is pressuring Olimar off the stage. The platform game lets you avoid grabs, but Olimar's air game and smashes can make that risky as well.
Final Destination, against a good Olimar, no. Approaching Olimar is much too difficult here. Just about everything Falcon has can be out ranged. Olimar can camp, abuse grabs and side+B as much as necessary and even smack away practically all of Falcon's approaches. Falcon is limited to his air game here {not completely, but our ground game is risky against Olimar} and that's ridiculously easy to predict as soon as he gets into the air. Olimar is basically a fly swatter and Falcon is the fly. Getting an easy approach here is difficult, so I wouldn't recommend this stage.
Smashville, this stage is somewhat similar to Final Destination, but since there's a platform, it's not nearly as difficult to get an approach in. If you're good at buffering, you can easily run off the platform, fastfall to the ground, buffer a dash and a dash attack {or grab preferably} before Olimar even has a chance to react. A drop-zone knee off the platform isn't bad, but way too predictable and overused. Plus, it can be shielded and punished.
Yoshi's Island, I actually haven't fought many Olimars with Falcon on this stage. The platform is definantly a pain though. For some reason, Olimar has a much easier time using the platform to his advantage than Falcon does. Many crazy setups because of it's constant tilting, and Olimar's range on just about all of his aerials. The two things I do like about this stage vs. Olimar is the fact that it has a high ceiling {because we don't usually kill upward anyway} and that Olimar is easily gimped on this stage.
Finally; Pokemon Stadium: Melee. Falcon has room to move around, platforms to safely land on to avoid things that Olimar uses against him {without feeling pressured due to the stage size} and a pretty stable stage in general because the stage changing often throws Olimar off. Falcon can easily maneuver around all the different stage changes, where Olimar {may} have more difficulty doing so. Most of the stage formations allow combos, locks, the ability to tech and follow-up much, much easier than you can on any other stage.
It's basically Falcon's playground, imo.
Battlefield, perhaps. Falcon doesn't have enough room to safely approach and punish Olimar. Normally where I'd say Falcon demolishes characters on Battlefield, it's hard to stay that applies to Olimar. The only thing Falcon has going for him on this stage is pressuring Olimar off the stage. The platform game lets you avoid grabs, but Olimar's air game and smashes can make that risky as well.
Final Destination, against a good Olimar, no. Approaching Olimar is much too difficult here. Just about everything Falcon has can be out ranged. Olimar can camp, abuse grabs and side+B as much as necessary and even smack away practically all of Falcon's approaches. Falcon is limited to his air game here {not completely, but our ground game is risky against Olimar} and that's ridiculously easy to predict as soon as he gets into the air. Olimar is basically a fly swatter and Falcon is the fly. Getting an easy approach here is difficult, so I wouldn't recommend this stage.
Smashville, this stage is somewhat similar to Final Destination, but since there's a platform, it's not nearly as difficult to get an approach in. If you're good at buffering, you can easily run off the platform, fastfall to the ground, buffer a dash and a dash attack {or grab preferably} before Olimar even has a chance to react. A drop-zone knee off the platform isn't bad, but way too predictable and overused. Plus, it can be shielded and punished.
Yoshi's Island, I actually haven't fought many Olimars with Falcon on this stage. The platform is definantly a pain though. For some reason, Olimar has a much easier time using the platform to his advantage than Falcon does. Many crazy setups because of it's constant tilting, and Olimar's range on just about all of his aerials. The two things I do like about this stage vs. Olimar is the fact that it has a high ceiling {because we don't usually kill upward anyway} and that Olimar is easily gimped on this stage.
Finally; Pokemon Stadium: Melee. Falcon has room to move around, platforms to safely land on to avoid things that Olimar uses against him {without feeling pressured due to the stage size} and a pretty stable stage in general because the stage changing often throws Olimar off. Falcon can easily maneuver around all the different stage changes, where Olimar {may} have more difficulty doing so. Most of the stage formations allow combos, locks, the ability to tech and follow-up much, much easier than you can on any other stage.
It's basically Falcon's playground, imo.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
I agree with everything Darky said, except for PS1 being a good stage for Falcon. I don't really have a huge wall of text to write about it, but let's just say I got groped hard by GMSS and RichBrown's Olimar at PS1.
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
PS1 then.
what stages should i ban ?
what stages should i ban ?
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Battlefield or PictoChat.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Maybe it's just because I'm use to playing Olimars on Pokemon Stadium. I have a pretty easy time controlling the stage with Falcon there.
Ban Final Destination or Battlefield.
Counterpick Japes or Rainbow Cruise.
Ban Final Destination or Battlefield.
Counterpick Japes or Rainbow Cruise.
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
Any general oli tips?
lordhelmet
Smash Master
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260675
Read the Olimar section. I'm still working on all the characters, but that's just my two cents.
Other people might tell you other things.
Read the Olimar section. I'm still working on all the characters, but that's just my two cents.
Other people might tell you other things.
NeoBatou
Smash Ace
When I face an olimar player (Echo mainly) I usually like to keep him in midair if we're playing FD or if we're playing BF keeping him on the side two platforms makes things generally easier for me. The grab range of Oli is a big threat, he can grab you from what it seems out of nowhere.....so keeping him in midair is key for me. If I get a chance to grab Oli, using Upthrow is generally what I like to do...to keep him moving in midair. Jumping and using UpA or Neutral air are two good ideas to keep him afloat.
To gimp Echo I sometimes had to get him off the stage, do a weak knee then get back to edgehogging by UpB back on the edge so he can't attach the pikmn to get back on the stage thus resulting in a good gimping solution. I never really use his meteor ish attack (AirDownA) simply because it's too slow and predictable..it's like trying to knee people.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
You still spelled "guard" wrong lol.
And, you forgot to fix your second post.
And, you forgot to fix your second post.
BigLord
Smash Lord
My views: Olimar is near-impossible to beat at a high level. Falco is beatable, but hard.
Tips? Watch out for your counterpicks, know which stages you pick.
Tips? Watch out for your counterpicks, know which stages you pick.
NeoBatou
Smash Ace
lol
I forgot to fix that word...forgot the red squiggly line was underneath it and didn't fix it.
Oh well >.>
Yeah Oli is hard >.<
lordhelmet
Smash Master
My post was directed at Darky...
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Fixed it earlier.
NeoBatou
Smash Ace
My bad.
Oh well....
In commemoration of CF, I present this video of how awesome his moveset can be used in real life situations.
For you baseball fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onW1q6t5Y10
Even horses benefit from the Falcon Kick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzCMTtfl6Sk&feature=related
The WWE can't help but make a version of the Falcon Kick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R83R6GiouTQ&feature=related
Oh well....
In commemoration of CF, I present this video of how awesome his moveset can be used in real life situations.
For you baseball fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onW1q6t5Y10
Even horses benefit from the Falcon Kick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzCMTtfl6Sk&feature=related
The WWE can't help but make a version of the Falcon Kick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R83R6GiouTQ&feature=related
teluoborg
Smash Otter
Wow Darky that's a pretty massive update you got here. Good stuff man.
I'd just add few things about the MK and Bowser matchup
For MK :
-Grab release to Usmash isn't guaranteed. I tried it on the best MK in France (K@os) and he just Uair'd out of the air release and beat Usmash. But of course it'll work on MKs that don't know the matchup (say 99% ?).
-Offstage his Dair is your worst enemy, and the reason why you're dead if you get offstage for just one second.
-Dsmash is frame 5 (10 behind him and IASA 35). Faster than anything we have except jab.
For Bowser :
-His up B, it's imo his best move. Frame 1-5 = invincibility ; hits on frame 6 ; it will punish any poorly spaced move and combo attempt (jab included). Up B OOS is the reason why you wouldn't want to attack his shield with something other that grab, Bair or Utilt.
-His firebreath is an excellent punisher if you don't SDI quickly out of it you're good for at least 20%. Plus he can use it to edgeguard, which is a pain cause Falcon doesn't have the options to get aound it.
Again good job.
I'd just add few things about the MK and Bowser matchup
For MK :
-Grab release to Usmash isn't guaranteed. I tried it on the best MK in France (K@os) and he just Uair'd out of the air release and beat Usmash. But of course it'll work on MKs that don't know the matchup (say 99% ?).
-Offstage his Dair is your worst enemy, and the reason why you're dead if you get offstage for just one second.
-Dsmash is frame 5 (10 behind him and IASA 35). Faster than anything we have except jab.
For Bowser :
-His up B, it's imo his best move. Frame 1-5 = invincibility ; hits on frame 6 ; it will punish any poorly spaced move and combo attempt (jab included). Up B OOS is the reason why you wouldn't want to attack his shield with something other that grab, Bair or Utilt.
-His firebreath is an excellent punisher if you don't SDI quickly out of it you're good for at least 20%. Plus he can use it to edgeguard, which is a pain cause Falcon doesn't have the options to get aound it.
Again good job.
His up b doesn't have invinci 1-5
that's marths up b
not sure of the data but i'm 99% sure that marths up b is the only move with invincibility on frame 1
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
any GUARANTEED grab release combos on Mk?
BigLord
Smash Lord
Player 3 I can confirm that Bowser does in fact HAVE invincibility when using up+B. And it's very, very annoying.
I don't know about invinc. in frame 1, though. Is that what you meant?
I don't know about invinc. in frame 1, though. Is that what you meant?
lordhelmet
Smash Master
"Those might not all be legit, but they're a good way to catch an MK off guard, plus a fresh upsmash can kill MK around 120%."
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
NeoBatou
Smash Ace
Safest Grab release we got IMO...
teluoborg
Smash Otter
I know, I'm just changing the "might not" into "are not".
Grab release to Uair is legit still.
@P3 Yes, Bowser has frame 1 invincibility, the only difference with Marth's up B is he doesn't have disjointed range (and he's less vulerable if he misses).
Purple
Hi guys!
So we're discussing bowser v falcon and mk v falcon?
BigLord
Smash Lord
Bowser v Falcon was already agreed upon back there. I think it's 55-45, bowser's advantage.
Purple
Hi guys!
So now it's Mk V Falcon. Oh lawd
lordhelmet
Smash Master
We're not rediscussing MK, we discussed him in the previous thread.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
I think we're gonna do Marth now but everyone's kinda waiting on Darky to update the index and whatnot...
Purple
Hi guys!
I'm ready to discuss >
BigLord
Smash Lord
Lol, we're too slow?
lordhelmet
Smash Master
I guess we can start discussing now.
35-65 Marth's favor. K, done who do we dicuss next?
35-65 Marth's favor. K, done who do we dicuss next?
BigLord
Smash Lord
I don't think marth is all THAT strong against us. Show me evidence!
worse than that
only hope falcon has agaisnt marth is shielding a fair and starting up a juggle
if the marth doesn't do that, and only FF nair/fair and punishes everything with DB, falcon has almost nothing against it, except shield
only hope falcon has agaisnt marth is shielding a fair and starting up a juggle
if the marth doesn't do that, and only FF nair/fair and punishes everything with DB, falcon has almost nothing against it, except shield
BigLord
Smash Lord
I don't know exactly because I never played a genuinely good marth, but I do know the character himself. I use him sometimes.
Your last paragraph is mostly correct, fair/nair is deadly against falcon.
Your last paragraph is mostly correct, fair/nair is deadly against falcon.
Purple
Hi guys!
Fair has a better spacing game than falcon. There isn't much that falcon can do if Marth decides to wait for falcon to approach.
yes, i called marth -fair.
yes, i called marth -fair.
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