Captain Falcon's MANLY Matchup Guide/Discussion Thread Week 16: Yoshi/Sonic

[Winnar]

I thought it was pretty much a given the MK's you're fighting are playing to win. If they don't care then yeah, 80-20 or better. I was assuming you're both playing the grand finals of Genesis and you pull out Falcon. He laughs at the ridiculousness of it all, but for so much money, he's not going to give you any room to breathe. That's the intensity I'm assuming.

Oh, and I dunno, I just put OS in there because he's popular and I know he knows how to DI.

 

[Player-3]

I thought it was pretty much a given the MK's you're fighting are playing to win. If they don't care then yeah, 80-20 or better. I was assuming you're both playing the grand finals of Genesis and you pull out Falcon. He laughs at the ridiculousness of it all, but for so much money, he's not going to give you any room to breathe. That's the intensity I'm assuming.

Oh, and I dunno, I just put OS in there because he's popular and I know he knows how to DI.

whered that come from..

and yeah, thats what i was assuming too

 

[Winnar]

whered that come from..

and yeah, thats what i was assuming too

Not you, Ayaz.

You and I are just going to have differing opinions on this I think. Not that there's really anything wrong with that, but I can't see any way to convince you otherwise nor you me so I think we're currently at a standstill.

Also math is hard sometimes

 

[Player-3]

Not you, Ayaz.

You and I are just going to have differing opinions on this I think. Not that there's really anything wrong with that, but I can't see any way to convince you otherwise nor you me so I think we're currently at a standstill.

Also math is hard sometimes

yeah math is...

im going to a tourny this saturday and Desu is going, he plays d3/MK and has a beastly one of both
like #2 or 3 on Georgia PR
if i dont get him in my brackets ill try to friendly him for matchup experience, maybe your right
but i seriously doubt hes that hard
>:

 

[Winnar]

He probably won't be at first, especially if he isn't taking the matchup very seriously. Once he figures out Falcon though...you're finished unless you super ultra mindgames him :O

Also Knee - Though yeah you can't include mindgames in the matchups ratio, you CAN include playing smart (in falcon's case you basically HAVE to unless you just want to put 0-100 for everything). In ZSS's case, that includes a lot of knowing where to be and not to be so as you don't run into things and get combo'd the **** out of.

 

[Player-3]

He probably won't be at first, especially if he isn't taking the matchup very seriously. Once he figures out Falcon though...you're finished unless you super ultra mindgames him :O

Also Knee - Though yeah you can't include mindgames in the matchups ratio, you CAN include playing smart (in falcon's case you basically HAVE to unless you just want to put 0-100 for everything). In ZSS's case, that includes a lot of knowing where to be and not to be so as you don't run into things and get combo'd the **** out of.

so maybe i can take a match

>=D

but then again.. he got 2 stocked my reflex's CF before..
he may not take CF so lightly
>:

 

[Zeallyx]

He probably won't be at first, especially if he isn't taking the matchup very seriously. Once he figures out Falcon though...you're finished unless you super ultra mindgames him :O

Also Knee - Though yeah you can't include mindgames in the matchups ratio, you CAN include playing smart (in falcon's case you basically HAVE to unless you just want to put 0-100 for everything). In ZSS's case, that includes a lot of knowing where to be and not to be so as you don't run into things and get combo'd the **** out of.

as a matchup is discussed while assuming both characters are played to their full potential, 'playing smart' is included (without mentioning it).

 

[Winnar]

as a matchup is discussed while assuming both characters are played to their full potential, 'playing smart' is included (without mentioning it).

Well then, I guess that makes my Falcon - ZSS matchup to be summarized as the following (taking out all "without mentioning it" 's:

50-50

...

 

[Zeallyx]

Well then, I guess that makes my Falcon - ZSS matchup to be summarized as the following (taking out all "without mentioning it" 's:

50-50

...

lrn2facts

ZSS' 1 frame jab is a pain to falcon, as it can disrupt his jab game. etc. etc.

 

[Winnar]

lrn2facts

ZSS' 1 frame jab is a pain to falcon, as it can disrupt his jab game. etc. etc.

Actually it's not that bad to Falcon's jab game, because as far as I could tell (I had some friendlies recently with a ZSS secondary) if she doesn't just finish all 3 jabs, you can get a jab -> grab on her because of the way Falcon's jab hitstuns her. It takes pretty good timing though, and maybe the guy I was playing was just messing up stuff. Who knows :O

Oh no I'm digressing Curse you roommate and your causing me to get 3 hours of sleep ;-;

 

[Zeallyx]

Actually it's not that bad to Falcon's jab game, because as far as I could tell (I had some friendlies recently with a ZSS secondary) if she doesn't just finish all 3 jabs, you can get a jab -> grab on her because of the way Falcon's jab hitstuns her. It takes pretty good timing though, and maybe the guy I was playing was just messing up stuff. Who knows :O

Oh no I'm digressing Curse you roommate and your causing me to get 3 hours of sleep ;-;

I meant that ZSS can get a jab in between falcon's jabs, or jab>grab.

 

[Winnar]

Yeah I guess I didn't make it clear, but the guy I was playing didn't seem to be doing that. I don't know if it was because he just couldn't or if he wasn't really trying for it.

The jab between jab -> grab, that is. I seemed to be getting it pretty reliably. Though if he was just messing up then yeah it's probably closer to 45-55 which would make me sad

 

[Zeallyx]

Yeah I guess I didn't make it clear, but the guy I was playing didn't seem to be doing that. I don't know if it was because he just couldn't or if he wasn't really trying for it.

The jab between jab -> grab, that is. I seemed to be getting it pretty reliably. Though if he was just messing up then yeah it's probably closer to 45-55 which would make me sad

I know, its sad.
falcon beeing quite a fast faller doesn't help him in this matchup at all, either.

prolly 55-45 (ZSS' advantage) yes.
although maybe leaning more to 60-40, but that would make ZSS have the same ratio as fox, mario and samus..

the ratio's are seriously ****ed up.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

lrn2facts

ZSS' 1 frame jab is a pain to falcon, as it can disrupt his jab game. etc. etc.

if jab is screwing up your game, use more falcon kick and dash grabs. They'll start shielding, then you can swap back to jab games. Sure its a trouble, but zamus's jab is smaller than falcon I think. Also, zamus's tend to jab cancel like us, so watch out for stuff off her jab.
I'd range from 55:45 zamus to 65:35, because my only experience against a zamus was actually pretty good.

 

[t3h n00b]

I've found aerial falcon kick to be good if you don't become predictable with it. To hit, you'd have to be diagonal, which is the best spot in the air against ZSS, since she can't hit you with any smashes or specials (besides down B I guess).

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I've found aerial falcon kick to be good if you don't become predictable with it. To hit, you'd have to be diagonal, which is the best spot in the air against ZSS, since she can't hit you with any smashes or specials (besides down B I guess).

Usmash, but not alot of ZSS's use usmash because it's laggy.

Just be aware that its an amazing anti air move despite its lagginess.

 

[t3h n00b]

I never understood why ZSS has smashes that have pretty much no knockback.

 

[Ayaz18]

I know, its sad.
falcon beeing quite a fast faller doesn't help him in this matchup at all, either.

prolly 55-45 (ZSS' advantage) yes.
although maybe leaning more to 60-40, but that would make ZSS have the same ratio as fox, mario and samus..

the ratio's are seriously ****ed up.

man knee, go out and play these match-ups! experience with good people will give you a better idea about our thoughts.

Fox, Samus, and Mario all have one thing in common........projectiles, but there's a way around each of them.....Fox's blaster is annoying but it can't be camped with, his lasers hurt but they arn't as fast as melee lasers. Samus can't kill........ but can camp the **** outta you. and Mario's fireball has stun and Priority but are rather slow.......or at least slow enough for us to run past them.

Falcon's speed in general is one of Falcon's best attributes, we can't be camped as easily as say........Ganondorf?

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

man knee, go out and play these match-ups! experience with good people will give you a better idea about our thoughts.

Fox, Samus, and Mario all have one thing in common........projectiles, but there's a way around each of them.....Fox's blaster is annoying but it can't be camped with, his lasers hurt but they arn't as fast as melee lasers. Samus can't kill........ but can camp the **** outta you. and Mario's fireball has stun and Priority but are rather slow.......or at least slow enough for us to run past them.

Falcon's speed in general is one of Falcon's best attributes, we can't be camped as easily as say........Ganondorf?

I'd honestly say that there are few opponents in the game that should go over 60:40 for falcon. He doesn't have an easy time against alot of the cast, but his speed kind of blurs the line between "too hard" and "manageable". The only characters that really go above 60:40 are characters that actually have something special against him, like Metaknight or Falco.

 

[eRonin]

I'd honestly say that there are few opponents in the game that should go over 60:40 for falcon. He doesn't have an easy time against alot of the cast, but his speed kind of blurs the line between "too hard" and "manageable". The only characters that really go above 60:40 are characters that actually have something special against him, like Metaknight or Falco.

Metaknight has something special against every other character ='(
No, I'd say ZSS is higher than 60:40...Falcon's faster run speed means nothing here and he doesn't have much else going for him (jab, uair...ZSS can easily counter those)

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Metaknight has something special against every other character ='(
No, I'd say ZSS is higher than 60:40...Falcon's faster run speed means nothing here and he doesn't have much else going for him (jab, uair...ZSS can easily counter those)

But nothing ZSS has nothing against falcon either. While she can disrupt jab games, she can't counter a good spacing game outside of paralyzer or smashes, which means she'll be laggy at range. I suggest staying under ZSS in this matchup too, because her dair is laggy and if she uses it to clear you, you can get a free shot from the landing lag.

Oh yeah, watch out for her down b flip, LOTS of KO power XD

 

[Zeallyx]

But nothing ZSS has nothing against falcon either. While she can disrupt jab games, she can't counter a good spacing game outside of paralyzer or smashes, which means she'll be laggy at range. I suggest staying under ZSS in this matchup too, because her dair is laggy and if she uses it to clear you, you can get a free shot from the landing lag.

Oh yeah, watch out for her down b flip, LOTS of KO power XD

ZSS has quite some 'special' things on falcon.
She can combo him nicely, due to his weight/fall speed.

And she has a projectile (wich I consider something 'special').
And she outranges us, (most characters do, but still) this is also an advantage for her.

And saying she cant beat a good spacing game is moot. As, if anything, we'll have an harder time beating her 'good spacing game'.

 

[Face124]

Her projectile is quite awful, it really doesn't do much for her in this match-up, we aren't really forced to approach by it.

 

[t3h n00b]

Yeah, no range unless it's charged, and at that point, she might as well use plasma whip. If you get hit by a charged one though, there's going to be some dsmash>bair gayness going on.

 

[Zeallyx]

man knee, go out and play these match-ups! experience with good people will give you a better idea about our thoughts.

Fox, Samus, and Mario all have one thing in common........projectiles, but there's a way around each of them.....Fox's blaster is annoying but it can't be camped with, his lasers hurt but they arn't as fast as melee lasers. Samus can't kill........ but can camp the **** outta you. and Mario's fireball has stun and Priority but are rather slow.......or at least slow enough for us to run past them.

Falcon's speed in general is one of Falcon's best attributes, we can't be camped as easily as say........Ganondorf?

I'm not saying all three ratio's are off, just that those three chars aren't all the same difficulty for falcon.

 

[t3h n00b]

This may help, from the ZSS boards:

Down Smash
Stun time is based on the enemy's damage percentage. Doing another down smash will not increase the stun time. Down smash will not combo after an up-B. Down smash is excellent for setting up your kill moves like back air and forward air.

You can get down smash chains on the following characters: (ranked in order of chain length)

* Fox (0-100%)
* Wolf (0-60%)
* Falco (0-45%)
* Sheik (0-30%)
* Captain Falcon (0-20%)


(These values are rough estimates and depend on DI and how stale your down smash is)

Against every character but Fox (you would chain Fox even if this worked), down smash will lead to an inescapable down-B spike at any percentage. If you ever happen to down smash a character near the edge you can get this kill at 0% on most characters. Some have a good enough recovery to survive.

So getting dsmashed at low percentages or near the edge=bad. There are a lot of [true I think] combos that go dsmash>dsmash>something else.

 

[Ayaz18]

oh that lightens things up^


good stuff

 

[Majora_younglink]

Hmm alright then. But what is ZSS considered to be? Have we gotten and ZSS mainers ideas on the subject? Sheik I still think is like 70-30.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

No ZSS mainers here. Blargh, somebody git em here.

90:10 falcons favor

yep :D

 

[brinboy789]

does falcon ANY advantageous matchups? if not, what are his closest to neutral besides dittos?

 

[eRonin]

^No, even in dittos Pink Captain Falcon: Any other Captain Falcon is like 90:10 Pink's way.
Otherwise...I honestly think Captain Falcon has an advantage over Ganondorf but we're not discussing that right now.

 

[Wogrim]

does falcon ANY advantageous matchups? if not, what are his closest to neutral besides dittos?

That's what we're trying to determine... Check OP for characters we've discussed so far.

 

[Noodlehead]

does falcon ANY advantageous matchups? if not, what are his closest to neutral besides dittos?

no advantages.
IMO falcon's closest match ups are ganon and squirtle

 

[t3h n00b]

I think Ivysaur may be close too, if we're talking individual pokemon.

 

[Jim Morrison]

You can't discuss the Pokemon as seperate characters. They are one character. And if you were doing seperate anyway, Charizard is awesome against Falcon.

 

[Roager]

You can't discuss the Pokemon as seperate characters. They are one character. And if you were doing seperate anyway, Charizard is awesome against Falcon.

I have seen no evidence of Zard ****** Falcon.

Then again, I haven't seen much evidence of any PokeTrainer's anything. They're not a very popular character.

 

[Player-3]

guys.... i have a confession to make

i played MK agaisnt Tenkis PT in friendlies

...
his zard spiked me out of my up b

like
i was in the loop, and at the top i got spiked down
i was like
LOLWUT


zard doesnt **** falcon, its 55-45 zards favor

 

[Noodlehead]

I think Ivysaur may be close too, if we're talking individual pokemon.

i think ivysaur is one of the hardest. ivysaur can easily rack up damage and doesnt have trouble killing. ivy can also camp making it harder to approach

 

[Player-3]

i think ivysaur is one of the hardest. ivysaur can easily rack up damage and doesnt have trouble killing. ivy can also camp making it harder to approach

squirtle is the hardest.... if they know what their doing

squirtles a *****, and our chaingrab doesnt help much

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

my friend's pokemon trainer ***** me all the time. squirtle can tilt lock falcon with utilt (im usually able to evade this). He does that hydro pump running dash dance thing and also uses it from grabs sometimes. his zard usually beats me because by the time he pulls out zard im at like 999% >.> im not asking how to beat him, its just an unfamiliar match up. i'll get better.