Captain Falcon's MANLY Matchup Guide/Discussion Thread Week 16: Yoshi/Sonic

[t3h n00b]

i think ivysaur is one of the hardest. ivysaur can easily rack up damage and doesnt have trouble killing. ivy can also camp making it harder to approach

From my experience, approaching from the air, as in, above where razor leaf can hit, has worked pretty well. And Falcon's strong suit is gimping, by far the easiest way to kill Ivysaur (although I know good ones are aware of this). All of Falcon's fire attacks have about 20% more knockback against Ivysaur, not that it matters a lot.

So is this discussion on PT now? We got sidetracked, but it's been more than a week since the ZSS/Sheik discussion started.

 

[Majora_younglink]

From my experience, approaching from the air, as in, above where razor leaf can hit, has worked pretty well. And Falcon's strong suit is gimping, by far the easiest way to kill Ivysaur (although I know good ones are aware of this). All of Falcon's fire attacks have about 20% more knockback against Ivysaur, not that it matters a lot.

So is this discussion on PT now? We got sidetracked, but it's been more than a week since the ZSS/Sheik discussion started.

It has been. I was waiting for a ZSS mainer for their two cents or someone who had matchup experience but it didn't come. I'm going to see if theres at least some good Sheik info and probably move the discussion tomorrow.

70-30 for Sheik her advantage?

 

[Player-3]

70-30 for Sheik her advantage?

NO

i played a extrremely good sheik yesterday

this matchup is definently 85:25
ftilt lock is a *****, and when you do manage to DI out, you get tipper upsmashed in the face

Her fair will gimp you like you wont believe, as it beats out our uair
her downsmash will get you the **** out of anywhere, even though it is punishable

very hard to stagespike when shes hanging on the ledge due to the tether regrab thing

nightmare matchup, i barely got the sheik down to one stock...

the only thing we have on sheik is hanging on the ledge when we get her off so she cant tether, then punishing the lag on her up b

although she is very easy to gimp, if she gets you offstage, you are either going to
1-die
2-kill yourself
3- have to land on the stage with your up b and be punished like a ho for it

horrible matchup... almost as bad as MK

 

[Zeallyx]

NO

i played a extrremely good sheik yesterday

this matchup is definently 85:25
ftilt lock is a *****, and when you do manage to DI out, you get tipper upsmashed in the face

Her fair will gimp you like you wont believe, as it beats out our uair
her downsmash will get you the **** out of anywhere, even though it is punishable

very hard to stagespike when shes hanging on the ledge due to the tether regrab thing

nightmare matchup, i barely got the sheik down to one stock...

the only thing we have on sheik is hanging on the ledge when we get her off so she cant tether, then punishing the lag on her up b

although she is very easy to gimp, if she gets you offstage, you are either going to
1-die
2-kill yourself
3- have to land on the stage with your up b and be punished like a ho for it

horrible matchup... almost as bad as MK

^This.
Although I'd say 80-20, sheiks advantage.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I'm not convinced, 70:30 sounds far better.

...and did I mention how much I hate olimar? I'm gonna use MK every time I see olimar again *AAAAAAAARGH*

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

NO

i played a extrremely good sheik yesterday

this matchup is definently 85:25
ftilt lock is a *****, and when you do manage to DI out, you get tipper upsmashed in the face

Her fair will gimp you like you wont believe, as it beats out our uair
her downsmash will get you the **** out of anywhere, even though it is punishable

very hard to stagespike when shes hanging on the ledge due to the tether regrab thing

nightmare matchup, i barely got the sheik down to one stock...

the only thing we have on sheik is hanging on the ledge when we get her off so she cant tether, then punishing the lag on her up b

although she is very easy to gimp, if she gets you offstage, you are either going to
1-die
2-kill yourself
3- have to land on the stage with your up b and be punished like a ho for it

horrible matchup... almost as bad as MK

85:25 >_< makes my head hurt

 

[eRonin]

^ No it wasn't a typo, Sheik is just that much better than Captain Falcon.
Nahh, but yeah I say Sheik/ZSS have the speed and range to outdo the Falcon's speed and range.
We've been discussing this matchup for yonks now...can we move on to another character?

 

[Majora_younglink]

Hrmm, there isn't any decent agreement on this matchup to be honest and since we haven't gotten any real mainers of each character on the board to put in their two cents I'm going to have to leave them blank for now. They'll come up later I suppose. Gonna edit the first post for two new character in a few minutes.

EDIT: Done. Current matchup is Diddy and Pit. So go.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Diddy oh gawd.

All I know is he's really annoying to fight, but these are two matchups I don't get enough of. I should track down Admiral Pit sometime and challenge him to SHOW ME YA MOVES!

But yeah, I don't play many pits, only good pit I've played was Gambit... or whatever his name is now XD

 

[Player-3]

Diddy:
Dash attack is going to be your lord and savior in this matchup, since it its generally fast and good at picking up/catching bananas, plus it has good knockback and beats out diddys (im pretty sure) so can give you some breathing room if needed
NEVER
EVER
EVER
grounded falcon kick here
it is suicide, and more than likely a free 20% for the diddy
Use Side-b to punish rolls
the only thing you will have agaisnt diddy is aerial, since his aerial game is GOOD, but not too great of range, so SPAM uair, and if you get diddy offstage, and theres a bannana onstage, pick up the naner, and when he tries to barrel back, zdrop it on his barrels
STAY OFF THE GROUND AT ALL COSTS
diddy will **** you 7 ways to sunday on the ground
Side-b is your friend here, not as good as dash attack, but it gets diddy into the air
also RARed uairs are good here... i dont know why
Use uthrow alot, for you have the advantage (if it is small) in the air over diddy... and this sets up great for people like ROB
so basically:
Spam dash attack, jabs, uthrow, ALWAYS techchase with side-b, use nanners to set off his barrels

easily a 65:35 matchup, ill get Player-1 in here to hear his side of the argument


Pit:
Player-2 mains pit, but he moved and never plays anymore, but he used to have a pretty good one... so i dont know

 

[Noodlehead]

Diddy:
Dash attack is going to be your lord and savior in this matchup, since it its generally fast and good at picking up/catching bananas, plus it has good knockback and beats out diddys (im pretty sure) so can give you some breathing room if needed
NEVER
EVER
EVER
grounded falcon kick here
it is suicide, and more than likely a free 20% for the diddy
Use Side-b to punish rolls
the only thing you will have agaisnt diddy is aerial, since his aerial game is GOOD, but not too great of range, so SPAM uair, and if you get diddy offstage, and theres a bannana onstage, pick up the naner, and when he tries to barrel back, zdrop it on his barrels
STAY OFF THE GROUND AT ALL COSTS
diddy will **** you 7 ways to sunday on the ground
Side-b is your friend here, not as good as dash attack, but it gets diddy into the air
also RARed uairs are good here... i dont know why
Use uthrow alot, for you have the advantage (if it is small) in the air over diddy... and this sets up great for people like ROB
so basically:
Spam dash attack, jabs, uthrow, ALWAYS techchase with side-b, use nanners to set off his barrels

easily a 65:35 matchup, ill get Player-1 in here to hear his side of the argument


Pit:
Player-2 mains pit, but he moved and never plays anymore, but he used to have a pretty good one... so i dont know

yeah, bananas help destroy diddy's recovery but usually there wont be a banana. if you know your opponet is going to land right above the stage(a little above the ledge) use jab, it also messes up his recovery. you shouldn't spam dash attack, it's easy to punish.
heres what can go wrong(not always going to happen but whatever)
dash attack> missed opponet>banana>slip>banana>slip>smash> ='(

watch out for his side b, when trying to gimp .
also he is rediculous with 2 bananas
protip- never throw a banana at diddy or throw it up. you should just toss it out

 

[Player-3]

yeah, bananas help destroy diddy's recovery but usually there wont be a banana. if you know your opponet is going to land right above the stage(a little above the ledge) use jab, it also messes up his recovery. you shouldn't spam dash attack, it's easy to punish.
heres what can go wrong(not always going to happen but whatever)
dash attack> missed opponet>banana>slip>banana>slip>smash> ='(

watch out for his side b, when trying to gimp .
also he is rediculous with 2 bananas
protip- never throw a banana at diddy or throw it up. you should just toss it out

well not SPAM... but use it alot, as it will beat out diddys

i dont mean just run around using it, use it more often than you normally would

i always throw them up, then usually jab-grab to a throw that hits them into the banana, then follow up with a uair

 

[Player-1]

Play like an Ike player in the air. Uair has decent range and I believe it has better range reversed(?). Fake landing on the ground a lot and try to come out with some other aerial. Jabing/Jab cancelling works well to, and Uthrow might be your best throw and then Air Chase the Diddy since CFs aerials are faster. CF's Side b in the air could be useful. EX: Diddy has a banana in hand and CF is in the air, he falls right above Diddy and the Diddy player thinks that he will land so he throws the banana, but the CF stalls the landing with a side-b and hits the Diddy player. CF's Ftilt I can see as good too since it outranges Diddy's stuff (maybe not Ftilt, not sure). Too lazy to write anymore, maybe later after xbox live >.>

 

[t3h n00b]

Diddy is my best character, even though I use Falcon more -_-

His biggest weakness in my opinion is his ground game without bananas. This obviously means getting them from him, though. Instead of throwing them offstage (I die a little bit inside when I see someone doing that) or throwing them at Diddy, unless you know what you're doing, throw them up or down. This leaves them on the stage, and your opponent will have to come through you to get them back, or wait for the bananas to despawn in awhile (15 seconds maybe?). Ftilt is Diddy's longest-ranged ground attack, although most of his smashes and tilts have a range that's similar. Your best bet is to stay right outside that range, provided he's not about to throw a banana at you, so you can outrange(!!!) him with tilts and avoid the peanut gun, which only hits people at point-blank or about 2/3 of the diameter of FD when not charged.

Grounded Falcon Kick is really bad, all of Diddy's ground attacks are fast, and you will probably just get hit by a banana anyway. I almost never land knees on Diddy due to his size and pretty good aerial range, I wouldn't try more than once or twice a match. Also, if you try it offstage, Diddy's dair is very easy to spike with. Diddy can have a ton of trouble killing if you DI well, downsmash to me is the most reliable move for that, but you need to be maybe at 120% or a little higher to die from it. Fsmash takes more damage than that unless it's at the edge, and usmash is terrible for killing, but hyphen smashing after you trip on a banana is pretty common. Fsmash has two hits and usmash has 3, you can DI out of fsmash and save yourself fairly easily if you practice, and usmash almost never hits with all three kicks if you know what you're doing. Fair has decent knockback, and bair is almost as strong as it. Diddy's rocketbarrels will spike you if you're recovering under them as well. In my opinion, the matchup is 65-35.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

that sounds like everything I've ever noticed when playing diddy. Drop aerials on him, watch your footing *shouldn't you always?*, and don't falcon kick or try for much horizontal speed, unless you're in the air.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

ive only played 2 diddys. both too good for me to do anything with any character. only faced scrub pits. v.v

 

[t3h n00b]

I used Diddy on aib and destroyed this guy then we played friendlies and played as Diddy I was Falcon. I definitely proved the whole no falcon kick thing right. He wasn't that good, but I don't think I hit him with one, and I tried a lot. That whole ff uair thing that's all the rage nowadays worked well. And I mostly used bair. I got a spike as well, Diddy's uair has a fairly short range, but I doubt a good Diddy would be under me offstage.

 

[eRonin]

I dunno about Diddy.
But Pit is super annoying. I know a pretty good Pit, and his projectile spamming is almost as annoying as Falco's, plus good aerials.
And that side B. GAAAAAAAAAH
I think you can Falcon Punch/Kick it...can someone confirm this?

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I dunno about Diddy.
But Pit is super annoying. I know a pretty good Pit, and his projectile spamming is almost as annoying as Falco's, plus good aerials.
And that side B. GAAAAAAAAAH
I think you can Falcon Punch/Kick it...can someone confirm this?

Kick clashes, paunch I would assume either pens or clashes. Its mega laggy, punish with sweetspot bair.

 

[t3h n00b]

Maybe one of those nifty dair>knee combos too, although I never really use them. I like my dairs offstage

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

falcon kick is very useful on diddy. >_> use it when you see him pulling out a banana

 

[Wogrim]

falcon kick is very useful on diddy. >_> use it when you see him pulling out a banana

I don't think good Diddys stand around when they pull out bananas.

 

[Player-3]

falcon kick is very useful on diddy. >_> use it when you see him pulling out a banana

sorry man but your wrong...


falcon kick is suicide agaisnt diddy

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

wait im lost. i've played good diddys. im talking about as the banana is being pulled from them they are stationary.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Most of them prefer to drop bananas in the air.

 

[Player-3]

yeah, diddy wont pull a naner standing still if your onstage

 

[Ayaz18]

K so I'v played my one buddies Diddy a lot (Pastaboy) and I can say that this match-up SUCKS.

and just to clear some things.....Falcon kick does NOT go over banana's, Ganon kick does.

The most effective way of surviving against Diddy is by abusing that SHAD, if you ever moving when Diddy is armed with a banana just start busting out the SHAD. The reason is because in you invinciblity frames you can catch thrown Bananas! This is seriously the only way for me to get around them.......

There are some upsides to this match-up: Diddy can't kill very well, Falcon weighs an ***-load, Diddy sucks in the air, Falcon ***** in the air

and regarding to skip: I think your talking about a punish because it takes a long time for diddy to take out a banana; However most Diddy's jump, then pull out their banana so they can be safe from punishment. So if you have really good reaction time then FK could be your answer.

 

[Player-3]

id still rather use RB instead of FK even then, i prefer to fight people in the air

 

[lordhelmet]

Diddy is hell to go against, Falcon Kicking is suicide don't use it! Try to keep Diddy in the air as much as possible. Try to use his banana's against him.

Pit is bad, but not as bad as Diddy. Try to stay close to him and hit him with tilts and such. You can occasionally get a knee on him when hes trying to Up B recover.

 

[t3h n00b]

If Pit has to use upB to recover under the stage, then you should just uair him and edgehog. If he's recovering onstage with it, he will use an aerial 9 times out of 10.

Most of them prefer to drop bananas in the air.

trufax

As Diddy, when I start the match, I turn around and jump or b-reverse and throw two bananas behind me. Almost every game. There's no great counter to it often if someone runs up to you (or Falcon Kicks), they will get hit by the banana as you pluck it as long as you face away from them. I'd use an aerial to punish banana pulls on the ground, because a good Diddy will almost never pull a banana away from their opponent.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Don't even Uair pit's recovery. Just soft knee it. The sexkick properties make it easier to do and it doesn't send pit back up toward the stage. It's an insta-kill!

 

[t3h n00b]

Good point. Nair would work too probably, it's easier to hit with at least one kick, but can lead to self-gimps sometimes I guess. Footstooling during Wings of Icarus is +5 cool points.

 

[FAILchion-]

This is how I look at it:

Pros
-Capt. Falcon dominates Diddy Kong in the air
-Diddy Kong('s recovery) is easily gimpable off-stage, whether with U-Airs or flubbed F-Airs
-Grabs work pretty well against Diddy Kong
-Raptor Boost punishes most errors, allowing for a versatile branch of attacks
-N-Air disrupts Diddy Kong pretty nicely
-SHAD helps to position yourself better

Cons
-Diddy Kong dominates the ground; bananas just overall overwhelm Capt. Falcon (huge pro for Diddy Kong)
-Capt. Falcon is heavy, making it easier for Diddy Kong to set up for more attacks
-Diddy Kong spikes rather easily
-Diddy Kong edgehogs fairly well

Disclosure: Overall, just a matchup you REALLY want to avoid. As mentioned before, Diddy Kong's ground game overwhelms Capt. Falcon, making it rather hard to approach with many attacks. Falcon Kick is pretty much futile against a Diddy Kong, simply because you'll most likely run into a banana, which allows Diddy Kong to punish very easily. As far as edgehogging, Diddy Kong does a fairly good job at it. His D-Tilt is pretty spammable, so watch out for it. From there, he can either just grab the edge, or even just B-Air you against the stage at higher percentages, or just spike you. It really depends on the player you're facing. I prefer not to use B-Airs, simply because Diddy Kong is a small character, so the chance of hitting him is pretty iffy.

However, Capt. Falcon does outdo him in some aerials. For one, the air. Out of your aerials, SH N-Airs help a bit in disrupting him. U-Airs and (flubbed) F-Airs help for gimping, even tripping.AC D-Airs help to set up for more aerials. Diddy Kong's bananas can easily backfire on him, but in the hands of a good Diddy Kong player, this is subject to change. Dash Attack and Raptor Boost are good ways to TC him, which easily flow into U-Airs. As for throws, D/U-Throws are good, as they lead into more aerials. F-Throw is tolerable at low percentages, but I still prefer to use D/U-Throw.

Overall, I'd say 35:65, Diddy Kong's favor.

 

[t3h n00b]

Nice organization. I agree with everything you put, although Diddy isn't as easily gimped as one might think. Not only can he use monkey flip to recover, if he latches on with the air grab version, he can footstool you, or do the attack if you're near a blastline. He also can wall cling, and if you hit him out of his barrels near the height of the stage, more often than not, Diddy will be able to use them again and recover unless you get back onstage and gimp. Plus the barrels spike. So I agree that he's not too hard to gimp, but he can easily turn Falcon's gimp into a low-percentage kill if you make a mistake.

 

[FAILchion-]

Nice organization. I agree with everything you put, although Diddy's isn't as easily gimped as one might think. Not only can he use monkey flip to recover, if he latches on with the air grab version, he can footstool you, or do the attack if you're near a blastline. He also can wall cling, and if you hit him out of his barrels near the height of the stage, more often than not, Diddy will be able to use them again and recover unless you get back onstage and gimp. Plus the barrels spike. So I agree that he's not too hard to gimp, but he can easily turn Falcon's gimp into a low-percentage kill if you make a mistake.

It really depends on the player. I'm not saying every Diddy Kong will get gimped every match, but as far as normalities go, Diddy Kong is pretty easy to gimp. Same as Olimar, but like you said, a good [character] player will try his/her hardest to not get gimped.

I hardly ever get caught by Monkey Flip in the air, haha. But I assume that if you're using Monkey Flip to recover, then you're above the stage, just horizontally far, from which Capt. Falcon can even follow with the second kick of his N-Air, or even a U-Air from the bottom. A footstool can be pretty nasty for Capt. Falcon, indeed. But Diddy Kong's Rocketbarrel Boost is easily separable, and he does suffer temporary lag. When he brings it back up, you're in complete control. You can either choose to spike him, disrupt the Rocketbarrel Boost again, or just keep edge-hugging.

Fully agreed on the last sentence. Well said.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

oh for pit, falcons jab can clank with the arrows. not sure if that's known or not >.< please keep in mind I have not faced good pits

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

oh for pit, falcons jab can clank with the arrows. not sure if that's known or not >.< please keep in mind I have not faced good pits

Theres a topic somewhere with all the stuff falcon kick and raptor boost clank with.

Anyways, the main problem against diddy is that he disrupts falcon's ground game to such a huge degree, which kills the fact that falcon has such great ground speed. That and diddy's dash attack is really annoying <_<

 

[Player-3]

im 99% sure falcons dash attack beats out diddys

 

[FAILchion-]

It's not a matter of which Dash Attack is better, it's just that Diddy Kong's Dash Attack follows into other attacks.

 

[Player-3]

just so you know you can DA a diddy out of his DA..