Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
I laughed at this. I see where you are coming from but it seems you are denying an important factor. Reality.
:bandit:
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Captain Falcon's MANLY Matchup Guide/Discussion Thread Week 16: Yoshi/Sonic
- Thread starter Majora_younglink
- Start date
I laughed at this. I see where you are coming from but it seems you are denying an important factor. Reality.
:bandit:
F5Hazardousdoc
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2008
- Messages
- 580
*plays some training mode*
Ok.. from what I'm seeing, I can't notice much of a difference in falling speed. Snake takes longer to get airborne than falcon, and has a smaller jump, and floats more after his second jump, but when they both start falling, the falling speed isn't noticable. I had them fall off of FD and, while falcon falls off and dies faster, I think its because he dashes off faster than snake does, so he starts falling before snake too. Its hard to test...
Falcon does fast fall ALOT faster than snake though. I believe falcon may fall a minute amount faster than snake, but not enough to be much of a difference.
In that case, I don't exactly see ftilt lock being devastating to falcon... :|
Blargh. 30:70 sheik. I'm still unconvinced. If zelda were thrown into the mix I'd probably go 25:75 Zelda/Sheik, mainly since sheik has a few ways to make transforming safe.
Mit
Smash Ace
I have played against Ankoku with my Falcon, one of the best Sheik players out there.
Yes, Sheik is a **** matchup. Her speed combined with her higher priority is a nightmare, and yes, ftilt locks are BAD against Falcon, especially when the Sheik player knows what they're doing (Ankoku...) and never misses a beat with it.
80/20 Sheik. You'd all agree if you got to play Ankoku.
Yes, Sheik is a **** matchup. Her speed combined with her higher priority is a nightmare, and yes, ftilt locks are BAD against Falcon, especially when the Sheik player knows what they're doing (Ankoku...) and never misses a beat with it.
80/20 Sheik. You'd all agree if you got to play Ankoku.
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
Even if anything... 50/50 But that's not what I think.
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
I say we start a new character then, or just focus on ZSS, it's basically 2/3 of the posters saying 80:20 because of tilt locks, then the rest saying 55/45ish because they never get tilt locked or their opponents aren't good at it. Nothing new seems to be brought up about Shiek.
Wogrim
Smash Lord
Did we get Shieks in here yet?
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
I was considering asking their boards, but then I saw this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221652 :/
UzakiuzuG
Smash Journeyman
You don't really see shieks anymore. Well I know I don't.
you saw what..?
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
>_< It's locked. Antoku apparently doesn't want threads like that, unless he has some hatred for the Ike boards lol.
I think it beeing locked is because posting in that thread is futile, not because it is not wanted/against the rules.
If you follow the link in the thread you linked to, you will see that sheik players started posting in the matchup thread after it was posted.
It does work.
eRonin
Smash Journeyman
In my mind and as an ex-ZSS user, I can only think that ZSS would totally own Captain Falcon. Any speed advantage Captain Falcon may have had is rendered obsolete by ZSS's own speed, and ZSS has more range, and a better jab, so nuts to one of Captain Falcon's best moves.
ZSS 80:20 CF
ZSS 80:20 CF
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
ZSS and Squirtle have frame 1 jabs, so even if they don't have uber jab cancels, they can just cancel Falcon's jab like you said lol
Majora_younglink
Smash Apprentice
Hmm alrighty. I'll probably get to updating the thread tomorrow but it seems that ZSS is something like a 40-60 and Sheik a 30-70 in their respective advantages at least right? Probably a bit higher but I doubt much for Sheik unless we agree she is as hard or harder than MK.
MK vs falcon: 10-90, MK's advantage
sheik vs falcon: 20-80, sheiks advantage.
makes sense, right?
Majora_younglink
Smash Apprentice
MK has a chain grab and the such. And even if he didn't it'd be more like 85-15 since it's not a DDD vs Bowser matchup.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
he doesnt, just DI up, or down if you want to tech
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
Or airdodge I think.
I've never been CGed by MK o_0
I've never been CGed by MK o_0
MK vs falcon is 10-90, MK's advantage..
and its argueably falcon's hardest matchup..so a 90-10 is in place.
seriously..a MK who knows what he is doing is like unbeatable.
MK vs falcon, 10-90, MK's advantage.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
lol i dont even think its necessary to state MK's advantage. but since i though mk was 20-80 i did place sheik at 30-70/35-65
so i kind of agree with 80-20/75-25 if meta is 90-10
Majora_younglink
Smash Apprentice
No, the matchup for the most part was agreed to be 80-20. But knee is arguing it's actually 90-10 which isn't right. And knee, you have a habit of giving matchups way more points than they deserve. Look at other matchups of other characters that are set at 90-10 then rethink the ratio.
Um Captain has a chain grab ON MK. Not the reverse. It's the only thing he really has in the matchup, tis why it's not something like 85-15 or even 90-10.
This.
Except DK, he needs to be higher but noone trusts a troll
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MK is 80/20, MAYBE 85/25
DK is just as bad as MK to me...
>_>
its the two letter name ending in K, gets me everytime
that includes diddy
i vote diddy for next matchup discussion, i can get p1 in here, we play eachother alot and can bring experience in the matchup
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
o_o.. i just said..falcon can't be chaingrabbed sonz. (by meta)
and at above, i love the dk match-up. and lol @ 85-25. EDIT QUICK P3
hey, im failing pre-calc..(srs bisnes)
and no i wont edit, MK vs Falcon needs moar than 100
meta knight beeing 10-90 for falcon was not my ratio..
I heard it from others, and thought it was reasonable, as it is.
All the ratios are ****ed up.
MK IS 10-90. better fix the others if it doesn't match with this one.
seriously, mario/fox and samus all the same ratio for falcon?
Come on..
Winnar
Smash Lord
You guys are so pessimistic. I finally find this thread and you guys just tear Falcon to pieces. Not ONE even matchup guys? Seriously?
This is pathetic.
Also TKONTK is right, MK matchup is 10-90. Even with a "chaingrab" (oh ho ho look at that you just got about 10% out of that chaingrab and a u-smash yahuzzz what an amazing chaingrab) you will still probably be getting 2-stocked by a seriously good MK. The reason MK is top tier is because if he gains the momentum he's able to take the stock (if the MK is competent at least). Falcon does not have that luxury, obviously. At the BEST you will be able to get MK in two momentum swings, but that's if you really play your cards right and the MK probably does not.
Either MK or Falco is Falcon's worst matchup (maybe even? A really good Falco will shut down all of Falcon's game) so work your way from there.
Oh, and because my pretentious streak is still going strong it's time I summed up the match ups for Sheik and ZSS for you.
Sheik: 35-65
She's pretty good, especially against Falcon. She can interrupt your combos pretty consistently, she can combo you just as consistently, and she can shut down pretty much your entire approach game if you aren't smart.
You have a lot of the same advantages, but the problem is that she has the priority to back it up. In most cases Falcon doesn't do that well, but in the end it's not an impossible matchup, just a tough one. Make sure, as always, you make the most out of any opportunity you get. You probably won't get many.
ZSS: 50-50
Gasps abound, I know. To think that Falcon might have an even matchup for once. Well this is kind of situational. It takes a pretty intimate knowledge of ZSS's workings before this even approaches even. She telegraphs most of her moves, but in an odd kind of way. Be aggressive but cautious. It's hard to explain, it just takes practice. As does edgeguarding her. Be smart and it's about even.
This is pathetic.
Also TKONTK is right, MK matchup is 10-90. Even with a "chaingrab" (oh ho ho look at that you just got about 10% out of that chaingrab and a u-smash yahuzzz what an amazing chaingrab) you will still probably be getting 2-stocked by a seriously good MK. The reason MK is top tier is because if he gains the momentum he's able to take the stock (if the MK is competent at least). Falcon does not have that luxury, obviously. At the BEST you will be able to get MK in two momentum swings, but that's if you really play your cards right and the MK probably does not.
Either MK or Falco is Falcon's worst matchup (maybe even? A really good Falco will shut down all of Falcon's game) so work your way from there.
Oh, and because my pretentious streak is still going strong it's time I summed up the match ups for Sheik and ZSS for you.
Sheik: 35-65
She's pretty good, especially against Falcon. She can interrupt your combos pretty consistently, she can combo you just as consistently, and she can shut down pretty much your entire approach game if you aren't smart.
You have a lot of the same advantages, but the problem is that she has the priority to back it up. In most cases Falcon doesn't do that well, but in the end it's not an impossible matchup, just a tough one. Make sure, as always, you make the most out of any opportunity you get. You probably won't get many.
ZSS: 50-50
Gasps abound, I know. To think that Falcon might have an even matchup for once. Well this is kind of situational. It takes a pretty intimate knowledge of ZSS's workings before this even approaches even. She telegraphs most of her moves, but in an odd kind of way. Be aggressive but cautious. It's hard to explain, it just takes practice. As does edgeguarding her. Be smart and it's about even.
Agreed. except GaW is also up there as (one of) falcon's hardest matchups.
seriously, GaW is an extremely hard matchup. like MK and falco.
But I dont understand the part of your post about the 'not even one even matchup'.
Falcon does not have an even matchup..except when facing another falcon.
What exactly do you mean with said part of your post?
Winnar
Smash Lord
I mean exactly what I say (imply?), Falcon does have even matchups. It takes being innovative, aware, and precise, but Falcon's not just some lost cause.
Also yeah Game and Watch is ridiculously hard as Falcon. I almost forgot because I just go Snake if I play G&W ever because it's just not worth the trouble. It's not even fun to see how well you may or may not do (like it is with MK) XD
I agree, but said innovation requires mindgames with falcon, and mindgames are things that are not taken into account in a matchup discussion (as they shouldn't be)
and yes, GaW is a nightmare man >.<
Ayaz18
Smash Champion
man guys MK IS NOT THAT HARD
knee, how many MK players have you played offline?
I can guarantee that i'v played better MK's and more MK's than you...... If you can't beat something, then it's better than you.....if you can't learn from your mistakes then you suck
MK is a challenge but he isn't too hard, all it takes is some match-up experience. MK IS vulnerable to some of Falcon's attacks; he can be EASILY killed with Grab release to Usmash, but you need to get it frame perfect (which is easy with practice), he can't do anything against Falcon kick, and Falcon can outspace MK with Utilt
those are the reasons he's not 9/1
Lrn2playbrawls
knee, how many MK players have you played offline?
I can guarantee that i'v played better MK's and more MK's than you...... If you can't beat something, then it's better than you.....if you can't learn from your mistakes then you suck
MK is a challenge but he isn't too hard, all it takes is some match-up experience. MK IS vulnerable to some of Falcon's attacks; he can be EASILY killed with Grab release to Usmash, but you need to get it frame perfect (which is easy with practice), he can't do anything against Falcon kick, and Falcon can outspace MK with Utilt
those are the reasons he's not 9/1
Lrn2playbrawls
lrn2facts ayaz, lrn2facts
Ayaz18
Smash Champion
cause we all know how good you are...................
Jerk
Jerk
THIS
@!Y#*(OIWQKARHG$O#Y$(@*OK)YIELKHAWRBELJWAREARAdfFANSIDKOLFADSNBFI#O$UYQ*($AIOWRLJASFK
MK IS NOT THAT HARD
Knee we all know falcon is bad, you dont have to try to make him seem worse than he already is.
hes bad enough
Winnar
Smash Lord
Ayaz I'm not so sure you've played the MK's we're thinking of. Have you tried playing Forte (...Plank, Overswarm, M2K...etc.)'s MK with Falcon? Are you kidding me? If your "better MK's" can't smash DI out of an obvious 2-hit u-smash (especially at the %'s where it would kill) or simply DI properly to avoid death by said obvious attack...
That doesn't necessarily make them bad, it is a deciding factor between a good MK player and a great MK player, DI.
Anyway, go up against any of the aforementioned MK's as Falcon, win, record it, and then send it back to us before you start telling us how easy MK is.
That doesn't necessarily make them bad, it is a deciding factor between a good MK player and a great MK player, DI.
Anyway, go up against any of the aforementioned MK's as Falcon, win, record it, and then send it back to us before you start telling us how easy MK is.
Were not saying hes easy, were saying hes not 90-10.
have you played those MKs?
Plank is a ***(lol jk <3) he doesnt count btw.
hes 80-20.
hes hard, but hes not as hard as, say, sheik is for ganon.
THAT is a 95-15 matchup, and rightfully so.
MK IS NOWHERE NEAR THAT HARD
l2read
lol, you are always the jerk. Let me be it for once
And actually, I wouldn't underestimate me, if I were you.^_^
Winnar
Smash Lord
Actually yes, I have played some of them. Offline.
If you play a great MK (who is having a good/great day) as Falcon (even on your best day) you will lose at least 90% of the time. This is my opinion, which I have formed from my experiences playing great MK players. If you think you can do better then I applaud you for it, though I won't believe it until I see the videos.
Also...
95-5*
l2math XD
Ayaz18
Smash Champion
alrighty
so the MK's you listed are the best of the best, I will agree. However I have played equally good MK's like Kingace and other American's when they came up to Canada or when I went down to America (not going to list them all). Also about the Di thing..........it's not like MK players are worried about a Falcon player wrecking them.....most players don't see the Usmash, and actually think that it's an actual combo. Out of all the MK player's i'v played........only Zaf was able to DI out of Usmash, and that too was only once....... EVEN ALLY got hit by it, and he seconds Falcon.
you overrate people too much.........OS and I are capable of the same abilities, I can three stock him and he could do the same to me. It just matters about what happens IN the match.
and about the recordings............I don't have vids, I do have high level tournament places.
*waits for rebutle*
i dont believe i can do better, i am nowhere near that good.
But this is on
THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF POSSIBLE PLAY
(caps are for impact, not anger)
but you may not be as good of a Player as Dojo and them, which in case your results would be skewed... sorry man but ive played some good MKs and lose all the time, but i dont believe its 90-10
(no offense)
(I CP every mk i face with yoshi now)
and sorry for the ratios, im failing my pre-calc class.. math isnt my forte incase you havent noticed
this is the second time today.. i did 85-25 earlier..
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