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Captain Falcon's MANLY Matchup Guide/Discussion Thread Week 16: Yoshi/Sonic
- Thread starter Majora_younglink
- Start date
The Cunning Weasel
Smash Master
Show me your moves!
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
sonic is very fast. I only played one sonic player in a serious set. I played a sonic player who was good but I was bored and didn't even airdodge and I went random and got moar bored x)
Zodac
Smash Journeyman
ness, pokemon trainer and jiggs next i think, we need some better ratio's.
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
Pokemon trainer should probably be the only character the week that it's done, since the pokemon are very different. And we kind of got sidetracked onto him awhile ago- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204097&page=64#post6765539
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
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I have much exp in the match-up of pokemon trainer, ness, and jiggs
F5Hazardousdoc
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2008
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Pokemon trainer will be a very interesting discussion, last time we barely got anything done.
We need to lay down some rules for that discussion, too many people were arguing swapping to different degrees.
We need to lay down some rules for that discussion, too many people were arguing swapping to different degrees.
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
I agree, do we have Yoshi and Sonic covered? It seems like the mains gave pretty good ratios, I wouldn't really know though I guess.
Ratios are worthless for people who main the character.
They're for people who second or are looking for a counterpick. And who really counterpicks with Falcon?
I don't think it's 60:40 for either character.
It's really more even .__.; I'm sure of it... ;/
Falcon can outprioritize or trade hits with Sonic pretty often, and since Falcon's single hits are stronger, they're more beneficial to him than to Sonic. Shield a spindash, U-air OoS.
etc.
._.;
i'mmm goinnnngggg toooooo
hichez50
Smash Lord
Omg god I found a new combo.
Falcon punch. to up air to d-air. It acutally works at low percentages on Battle field.
FALCON PUNCH!!!
lol hichez ftw!!!
F5Hazardousdoc
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2008
- Messages
- 580
BUT SONIC'S FASTER :'(Ratios are worthless for people who main the character.
They're for people who second or are looking for a counterpick. And who really counterpicks with Falcon?
I don't think it's 60:40 for either character.
It's really more even .__.; I'm sure of it... ;/
Falcon can outprioritize or trade hits with Sonic pretty often, and since Falcon's single hits are stronger, they're more beneficial to him than to Sonic. Shield a spindash, U-air OoS.
etc.
._.;
i'mmm goinnnngggg toooooo
I don't know, I've never played a sonic mainer that had a working brain. AKA a bunch of "SAWNIC IS CHEEP CUZ HE HAZ SMASHER BALLZ NAHAHA" n00bs, who don't know how to cancel charging spindash... :|
what is this i dont even
FAILchion-
OH HE'S SO PRINGLES
I'd say 40:60, Sonic's favor, and 35:65, Yoshi's favor, to be succinct.
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
Are you going to BTYF? I think I'll be there.
Yes. Hichez definitely wins. From now on, your name is synonymous with the term "win" in my mind.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
I find sonic rather hard to play, but if he begins spin dashing, I jab spam, uair oos, up oos. **** him oss. not sure why but I like to stay grounded in this match up unless he's above me
naw, WABA games monthlys in Georgia
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
Ok. They had your name down for some reason. It would be cool if we had vids up for all of these matchups in the thread eventually.
oh yeah i got invited to that
but its up in maryland or something and i dont have the cash right now to pay for a ride
..No.
Sonic has the advantage. Without a doubt.
Seriously..wtheck..
I think we should redo this thread, and do it more efficiently (one character a week, for example).
This aint working. Because if the topic creator takes posts as the one I quoted into account, there will be even more incorrect ratios in this thread.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
WTH is this. You haven't even covered one bit of Sonic, except Jab spamming his Spindash and useless ratios (see post EDIT: above Knee's for example).
Sonic has a great recovery, he'll not get gimped. To beat him you have to use jab a lot, because it's your quickest move with decent followups. U-air juggling is hard to do in one go, because spring gets you out of it. However, Falcon's U-air totally goes trough the spring, giving you a neutral position where Sonic is coming down. U-tilt at a good range, Sonic is quite commited when he falls. His aerial acceleration is rather poor (moving from one side quickly to another, think Wario), but his aerial speed is almost as good as Falcon. U-air will also work.
Sonic Grab game is superb, DI + SDI D-throw down and immedeatly tech it. Practice this (you won't, you think you'll never encounter a Sonic who knows about this) and you can surprise a Sonic immensely, delete the option of a followup and get a free Jab in (all other moves are too slow). When Sonic is recovering without sweetspotting the ledge, or falling from Spring from up high, U-tilt him airdodging, and keep spamming it. Jabbing once also works when he springs. GRAB HIM OUT OF SPRING AND DO NOT PUMMEL. His recovery is like Snake's, but some Sonics tend to do Spring recovery and F-air you. Shield all hits and shieldgrab and win.
Both Sonic and Falcon have great juggling abilities with an opponent above them, but a rather weak spot below, with D-airs with quite the landing lag. Sonic has a Spring to hit an opponent below him though. See if you can spot some terrible Sonic habits, like approaching with Spindash (HOLD A BUTTON AND CLANG, after which you can Jab him again), Spring > D-air at top (Do what I explained many times before, U-air and U-tilt go trough D-air) and using (lol)Homing Attack (Spotdodge and punish, run away and punish, Knee and trade hits, do whatever you want to this commited attack. When a Sonic is ******** enough to recover from it below the stage, spotdodge and see him plummet to doom)
Please, do something when discussion matchups. At least try...
Sonic has a great recovery, he'll not get gimped. To beat him you have to use jab a lot, because it's your quickest move with decent followups. U-air juggling is hard to do in one go, because spring gets you out of it. However, Falcon's U-air totally goes trough the spring, giving you a neutral position where Sonic is coming down. U-tilt at a good range, Sonic is quite commited when he falls. His aerial acceleration is rather poor (moving from one side quickly to another, think Wario), but his aerial speed is almost as good as Falcon. U-air will also work.
Sonic Grab game is superb, DI + SDI D-throw down and immedeatly tech it. Practice this (you won't, you think you'll never encounter a Sonic who knows about this) and you can surprise a Sonic immensely, delete the option of a followup and get a free Jab in (all other moves are too slow). When Sonic is recovering without sweetspotting the ledge, or falling from Spring from up high, U-tilt him airdodging, and keep spamming it. Jabbing once also works when he springs. GRAB HIM OUT OF SPRING AND DO NOT PUMMEL. His recovery is like Snake's, but some Sonics tend to do Spring recovery and F-air you. Shield all hits and shieldgrab and win.
Both Sonic and Falcon have great juggling abilities with an opponent above them, but a rather weak spot below, with D-airs with quite the landing lag. Sonic has a Spring to hit an opponent below him though. See if you can spot some terrible Sonic habits, like approaching with Spindash (HOLD A BUTTON AND CLANG, after which you can Jab him again), Spring > D-air at top (Do what I explained many times before, U-air and U-tilt go trough D-air) and using (lol)Homing Attack (Spotdodge and punish, run away and punish, Knee and trade hits, do whatever you want to this commited attack. When a Sonic is ******** enough to recover from it below the stage, spotdodge and see him plummet to doom)
Please, do something when discussion matchups. At least try...
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
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- Mar 14, 2008
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- 1,227
Or at least Sonic's recovery is harder to grab than Snake's... Thank you for clearing things up.
_Tiamat_
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 140
Jabs... lots and lots of jabs vs Sonic. Every time you can hit him, jab, when you're not sure if you have the time for a move, jab instead, racking damage on Sonic is tedious, don't waste any opportunity by getting greedy.
Landing a smash on Sonic is VERY hard and usualy happens only when he make a very dumb mistake, trying to finish him off with a smash is a gamble and can be very costly
When he's on the ground he got the upper hand, he can stay away and mess with your mind, slowly but safely racking up the damage with his spins. Try jabbing or grabbing him until he have a nice % then get him in the air and kill. Sonic is more vulnerable in the air by far... still not a given hit but it's way safer to go for the kill there.
it will take forever to kill Sonic if you stale your uair and bair so I definitly advise keeping either one fresh.
Landing a smash on Sonic is VERY hard and usualy happens only when he make a very dumb mistake, trying to finish him off with a smash is a gamble and can be very costly
When he's on the ground he got the upper hand, he can stay away and mess with your mind, slowly but safely racking up the damage with his spins. Try jabbing or grabbing him until he have a nice % then get him in the air and kill. Sonic is more vulnerable in the air by far... still not a given hit but it's way safer to go for the kill there.
it will take forever to kill Sonic if you stale your uair and bair so I definitly advise keeping either one fresh.
Depster
Smash Champion
Your OP is wrong, Yoshi does CG falcon.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Every good Sonic player knows about the tech and will only do it if they know that you do not know how to tech it. since we are assuming you will tech it the Sonic user will use a Uthrow to set up for a bad position.
Why are you trying to Utilt a rising Sonic? all his aerials are faster than your utilt and if he Uairs, he WILL break our move because of the disjointed behavior. Its better to use it as he is falling because of his slow aerial acceleration. That and we cant sweetspot like other characters.
Let us factor Falcon's poor grab range as well as the fact that Sonic's Fair has alot of active frames. So you won't be shield grabbing him especially since Sonic users dont use their sprng in a position where you can grab them.
He can always side B or homing attack then side B.
This is assuming stupid behavior of the Sonic user. That is completely irrelevant.
mmmmph
Majora_younglink
Smash Apprentice
What type of chain grab exactly? Like a grab release chain grab or...? I couldn't quite find a chain grab on C Falcon using Yoshi, but then again i don't really use him much. Inform me the type of chain grab he has and I'll update accordingly.
-----
Anyways, the small amount of discussion is why a lot of matchups are skipped. I feel uncomfortable updating a matchup unless both sides are fully explained.
=====
Also Knee like before I'm ignoring you until you actually learn to make critiques in pm format.
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
I'm almost positive it is a grab release thing... there is a thread about them in the Yoshi boards, but it just said he was in the easiest category, so I'd assume it is relatively easy to do, but I have no idea what it goes up to, and I don't have Brawl now so hopefully a Yoshi main can tell us.
Edit:
Sigged.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
I agree with knee. :-\
aye aye cap'n i agree with him too
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
"Sonic sucks" isn't a good description, and the ratio may not be correct either (once again, I have no idea), but he said Yoshi has the obvious advantage, so I'm guessing neither ratio is in favor of Falcon. And maybe after all the ratios are done they could be like... gone over or something one per week? Just putting it out there, so we don't run out of manly matchup discussions in a month or so
I personally like the two per week thing, and Majora_younglink speaks the truth:If there is no consensus, then he doesn't put a matchup, like with Shiek. I can't speak for him, but I don't think he takes every post (as in those with wrong/little information) into account.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I am not sure if i am glad to be sigged or not. =\
Skip never answered me either.
Skip never answered me either.
i just saw your avatar and translated it as
Banned Hoe
OH!
but on topic;
you should be glad, it means we like you <3
like when your friends dog bites you
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
what he says, although if i had a dog, it would go for the
first /badjoke
Right, but what percent is it up to? I guess I'll look around again.
Silent Beast
Smash Journeyman
It's independent of percentage. Grab-release cgs will continue until the end of the stage (edit: or until a platform breaks it up).
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
Oh... makes sense thanks for clearing it up.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I must say that a hell of a way to show ones affection.
banned hoe, heheh, I would put that but I fear getting banned.
The best way to get rid of the CG is to pick a stage that has platforms so that he can't perform another. I don't believe he can follow up with anything afterwards either.
Hmm I need someone to receive my replays, I have an epic replay of when I was using Falcon.
FAILchion-
OH HE'S SO PRINGLES
Final Destination has always been one of the more questionable stages for Capt. Falcon. I personally find Battlefield, Yoshi's Island SSBB, and Smashville his best stages, mainly due to the platforms, 'cept Yoshi's Island SSBB has Mock WaveLanding.
Norfair is probably falcons best stage. (Due to the platforms).
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
XD, shadowlink is god of landing the falcon punch. trust me :')