Canadian Salt Spill - Tool Link+

[Demacrez]

Are you saying that no one can have a higher priority than TL? If we're gonna change his Spin Attack it should be able to slide around! Hurricane Spin Attack from WW FTW!

 

[zaf]

Are you saying that no one can have a higher priority than TL? If we're gonna change his Spin Attack it should be able to slide around! Hurricane Spin Attack from WW FTW!

im not saying he has to have the most priority. Im just saying he needs a move that can clear him some space. You're just being nostalgic about the spin attack. We should think of more practical ideas.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I haven't tried Viet's .pac too much, but I'm pretty sure that I like his air mobility better. Non-molasses air movement is great, as far as I can tell. Of course, I'm not too sure about anything because I barely played 2-3 matches against a lvl 1 cpu with him, so yeah, take this with a grain of salt. =P

 

[shanus]

More idea's from the mind of zaf.

After playing holy for a day straight, and being dsmashed tooo much by his rob, i came to the conclusion that toon link has zero answers to robs dsmash. Everyone of toon's moves gets out prioritized by rob's dsmash. When you think about it, toon has no options for fast multi hit moves.

So would it be broken to make toons upb, exactly like links? Make it a knockback move? It would allow toon to clear himself sometimes. And when you think about it, his best range is mid range. So it would allow the toon player to reset the spacing and allow him to get back into the game, when being pressured heavily. It could also be a good k.o move and good for early gimps.

What do you guys think? *looks at viet*

Answer 1 for ROBs downsmash, SDI.

 

[zaf]

Answer 1 for ROBs downsmash, SDI.

SDI doesnt stop the move from coming out and hitting me. When i can expect the dsmash, i still have nothing to counter it. So i am always left with just evading.

 

[shanus]

SDI doesnt stop the move from coming out and hitting me. When i can expect the dsmash, i still have nothing to counter it. So i am always left with just evading.

You can escape on the first hit by SDI'ing up and away and actually punish ROB. Or you can just anticipate the downsmash and not get hit by it lol

ROB all day

 

[Plaid02]

Don't change the spin attack. It has its uses as is. Also, what happened to the dsmash in viet's pac? I really liked the new one from the 8/13 nightly, it made the dsmash actually worth using.

 

[Demacrez]

Don't change the spin attack. It has its uses as is. Also, what happened to the dsmash in viet's pac? I really liked the new one from the 8/13 nightly, it made the dsmash actually worth using.

It was over powered. Not only did it do the same damage and KB all around but it over shadowed all of TL's other killer moves. Before I started playing viet's test build I started to realized that I was relying a lot on D-Smash to kill.

Weakening it was better than keeping it.

 

[JCaesar]

ROB all day

I thought you hated ROB

Anyways, I finally got Lobos to play some Brawl+, and he was wrecking **** with TLink+ pretty good. I'll try to get some vids up soon, mostly teams though.

*waits for namesearch and ****talk*

Edit: hmm nevermind, he didn't save any of his matches.

 

[Lobos]

I thought you hated ROB

Anyways, I finally got Lobos to play some Brawl+, and he was wrecking **** with TLink+ pretty good. I'll try to get some vids up soon, mostly teams though.

*waits for namesearch and ****talk*

Edit: hmm nevermind, he didn't save any of his matches.

****.......I'll get some next time....I'll make tink+ broken

namesearch ftw

 

[zaf]

dont make tink broken, just actually give brawl+ a chance =P

 

[Power of Slash]

If anybody has some spare time.... I'd love to have a match critiqued so I know exactly what I need to improve upon for TL+.

At this moment I'm kinda in a daze about it, like... I probably have huge mistakes going on that I just can't spot or feel natural to me.

Anyways, it's my match vs. BigLou, it's like.... from 3 weeks ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfDCYe_SfN4&feature=related

Don't mind the random spin attacks in the air... idk wtf happened but I meant boomerang.... not even angled up boomerang, which makes me wonder wtf happened.

 

[BRLNK88]

dont make tink broken, just actually give brawl+ a chance =P

lulz, after all the low-tierdness the link characters have experienced in smash, I think its about time we had a broken link character.
I mean, just look at Kirby. So much power and priority for a puffball... course that could go for Jiggs in Melee too.

 

[zaf]

If anybody has some spare time.... I'd love to have a match critiqued so I know exactly what I need to improve upon for TL+.

At this moment I'm kinda in a daze about it, like... I probably have huge mistakes going on that I just can't spot or feel natural to me.

Anyways, it's my match vs. BigLou, it's like.... from 3 weeks ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfDCYe_SfN4&feature=related

Don't mind the random spin attacks in the air... idk wtf happened but I meant boomerang.... not even angled up boomerang, which makes me wonder wtf happened.

Ill give you some tips, lets watch this.

-At this point and time in brawl+ do not use jabs. Everytime i have used jab and hit, my opponents character hits me with something else. Jab has bad priority. Unless you can get the grab out really fast after the jab, then try not to use it.

-Make sure you are safe enough to pull out bombs, he is punishing you a lot when you take them out.

-Dash dance more, the luigi is always staying close to you, and you need to land more hits. So you need to confuse him, then get some hits in.

-More combos, you seem to retreat a lot after a nair when it is one of the best combo moves since it can combo into itself and uairs/dairs

 

[VietGeek]

I'm pretty sure Luigi vs TL is a definite disadvantage in B+.

Luigi doesn't have a lot of hitstun, so he can "combo break" with his nair (which kills) a lot, similar to Melee...although to the extent in B+ I don't know. =V

TL's BnB moves have short range on them and even at "tip" distance I wonder how safe you can be even when you're at the advantage from scoring hits.

Not to mention he has a better recovery, kills A LOT sooner than you do and basically rivals your range too...not good. <_<

This is why Luigi is so gay rofl =V He's not the best but really does hurt a lot of the characters that lack range and have to commit a lot to their moves. It's one thing to have some sort of "resilience" to hitstun, but not to the extent in comparison to everyone else especially for someone like him who by no means dies at a drop of a hat.

Probably a match-up we TLs need to work really hard for.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I play really gay against luigi. srsly. I changed my tag to "***" and everything

 

[Power of Slash]

Ill give you some tips, lets watch this.


-More combos, you seem to retreat a lot after a nair when it is one of the best combo moves since it can combo into itself and uairs/dairs

I only retreat because I noticed earlier in the match, that I couldn't get off any of my combos due to Luigi's Nair being an absolute combo breaker, so it made me really back off for a while.

Other than that most of the time I'm pretty combo happy off the Nair XD

but thanks for the other advice, I'll work on that stuff.

 

[BRLNK88]

The best way to beat a weegee in + is space.
Throw lots of projectiles to force him to approach with that slow air speed, then use his floatiness against him.
He's a monster in CQC so don't try to beat him straight-up.
So yeah, overall its a tough match-up.

 

[zaf]

My friend who plays luigi, nair combo breaks all day. Bair to bair all day is the only combo that doesn't get broken. But we can only do this for so long too, before it doesnt link because of the kb and because it is predictable.

I just outspace him to win. I have a match where i came back on my last stock at 141% to win. Ill post it along with the others. It was just pure spacing.

Zair him all day is what i do. He is hard to tech chase since he slides so much though. Arrows tech chase him well. If he rolls away from you, his slide is long enough to get hit by an arrow. IF the luigi see's the arrow and rolls towards you, free grab.

So Basically, hit with a zair, land, arrow.

EDIT:

I really would like the boomerang to be "fixed". It is such a great projectile but it's start up lag is so bad. Viet, what can be done about starting animations of the boomerang to make it come out quicker?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

would it be possible to make it so that you can SH boomerang>arrow? :o

 

[VietGeek]

Skip that'd make boomerang mad broken tho LOL

I'll see if I can just do a full speed-up of the boomerang.

Also btw guys, new physics, new **** ->

ledgehop boomerang -> lagless start-up arrow

think of yourself as Melee Falco

you wanna do SHDL...but can't...

so you ledgehop so you can get doublejump distance while covering the same amount of space as a shorthop =V

btw don't try this if ur NOT camping rofl

toon links ledge game SUCKS so ya...don't try to do this to relief pressure from getting edgeguarded

in other news, let's pretend TL was perfect, and that whacky changes were impossible...would this be the things to add/fix from the last test build I gave you guys?:

- More boost on UpB to compensate from new physics dragging it down
- Faster boomerang animation over all
- Less winddown on Uthrow.

is that good enough?

Also considering trying to make dair have more KB to make it a stronger meteor.

Cuz it's no fair Ganon can just stomp everywhere while we do kamikazes that barely reach 1/4 of Ganon's power mirite? =V

ideas, criticisms, etc. or forever keep ur peace

 

[TLMSheikant]

How about leave the dair like it is but we can slow fall it . Id come back full time to brawl+ if that happened XD. But i know it wont so ill just lurk :v. Good **** viet tho. Less windown on uthrow would be sex.

 

[VietGeek]

the ability to slow fall it? ...

like optionally?

aww man

i gotta snooze now or I'll be wavedashing off school buses and ****

but yeah

I think we can ALL dig that

also boomerang speed-up...

is amazing

SH boomerang > arrow

just needed 1.3x

...

**** guess I'm just charitable.

NEW "ADVANCED TECH"

"omfg we gotta practice that now TL is ssooooosososososososo technical!1!1111!1"

<_<

UpB momentum...err yeah I asked in the PSA thread for that lol. I'll check it in the morning.

 

[TLMSheikant]

XD. I <3 u viet. Full homo. Now we need some use for ftilt and were ready for gold . I think.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Ftilt is kickass as is
It's pretty much a guaranteed hit against falling enemies

 

[TLMSheikant]

I know. But it could use a buff to make it a little bit better and more PRACTICAL if u know what i mean. I actually use the move sometimes in vbrawl.

 

[Demacrez]

I'm all up for making the D-Air spike a little bigger. TL plummets when doing it and the spike isn't that big while Ganondork, Mario, Marth, etc. all have a safer D-Air (except Mario). I want people to fear TL when they're below him! >XD

And the 3 things you listed viet, yeah, those look smexy. Make TL the annoying little ******* that he should've been in vBrawl.

 

[TLMSheikant]

So what would u guys prefer? Ability to slow fall dair on command like G@w's? Or a super powerful risky spike? I prefer the safer one >_>.

 

[Demacrez]

Again, I prefer powerful risky. The plummet to the ground thing is what makes TL.

Besides, it's a great way to get back to the ground faster than your opponent...

 

[zaf]

Skip that'd make boomerang mad broken tho LOL

I'll see if I can just do a full speed-up of the boomerang.

Also btw guys, new physics, new **** ->

ledgehop boomerang -> lagless start-up arrow

think of yourself as Melee Falco

you wanna do SHDL...but can't...

so you ledgehop so you can get doublejump distance while covering the same amount of space as a shorthop =V

btw don't try this if ur NOT camping rofl

toon links ledge game SUCKS so ya...don't try to do this to relief pressure from getting edgeguarded

in other news, let's pretend TL was perfect, and that whacky changes were impossible...would this be the things to add/fix from the last test build I gave you guys?:

- More boost on UpB to compensate from new physics dragging it down
- Faster boomerang animation over all
- Less winddown on Uthrow.

is that good enough?

Also considering trying to make dair have more KB to make it a stronger meteor.

Cuz it's no fair Ganon can just stomp everywhere while we do kamikazes that barely reach 1/4 of Ganon's power mirite? =V

ideas, criticisms, etc. or forever keep ur peace

Dont mess around with dair, its fine the way it is. It has set ups, just practise them more.

PLEASE do not touch the boomerang. PLEASE VIET. It is really great right now. I don't care about its start up or wind down anymore. Because.........whenever the boomerang is out, it travels slow enough for toon link to follow it. Its like a forcefield. Trust me, the boomerang is so good. It's the one projectile people complain about because it is like two in one. If we try to break it, we might as well just stop using it zz >_>. As long as the boomerang is out, you can technical not be combo'd since it hits people and it forces people to shield and airdodge a lot more. That means more grabs

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ Boomerang should still be sped up. The speed of the game makes u get ***** everytime u attempt a boomerang toss. (even from a distance). :/ And demacrez. U'd still be able to use the dair normally just be able to slow fall it on command. IDK if thats possible but if it isnt im all for a powerful risky spike that Ill never use. >_>

 

[Demacrez]

@TLMSheikant

If that is possible I'll be all for it. Though how would that work?

 

[VietGeek]

You can't actually speed up the prop itself (boomerang).

Speeding up boomerang animations simply means you can trail behind them even faster. The boomerang has nearly zero priority, so a lot of people can just whack it. A lot of TLs trail behind the boomerang, someone like Marth can INTENTIONALLY abuse hitlag frames and let...say fair last a few frames longer as it hits the boomerang, then goes out to hit you at the tip.

I like optional slowfall but originally was just gonna make it stronger to offset its risk.

Because the stall-then-fall is useful for breaking faux-juggle combos. Unfortunately dair's lag to hitstun ratio is not in his favor. I wanted to fix that, and it seems it's something the other WBR members could potentially agree on also.

Zaf you seem to change your mind a lot. =P

Actually I noticed a lot of TL players seem really dynamic personality-wise...kinda like TL himself.

TL:
"This way!"
"Err...no, this way."
"Why didn't I go that way before?"

King of Red Lions:

"...Link, we were to set sail that way but you reconsidered."

<___<

I'll let you guys ramble about boomerang, I shouldn't consider myself part of that debate for fairness sake.

*leaves and plays GG: AC*

@TLMSheikant

If that is possible I'll be all for it. Though how would that work?

I'll have to look at GnW's dair and see how it works. *shrug*

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

give toonlink two boomerangs and make them fast enough so he can boomerang>boomerang>arrow in one sh.

 

[VietGeek]

When I make my own Smash game.

I'll get you to be the director Skip.

We'll surpass Sakurai himself!

 

[Demacrez]

Of imbalance or plain unfairness towards other characters?

 

[matt4300]

We'll surpass Sakurai himself!

Way to shoot for the stars there Viet

oh and yeh take away the rangs start up... let him cancel his dair but give it a constant spikeing hitbox that does 22 damage. Because theres no way in hell toon link should just settle for S tier... wait wut? /butthurt link main rant

 

[VietGeek]

yeah we'll reach for the stars obv

/totally disregards Matt's /

/=V

 

[BRLNK88]

IMO, make boomerang like 64 boomerang, but with the same Brawl throwing angles.
That means equal hit-stun and damage on the boomerangs RETURN.
I've brought this up before but no one seems to be listening to me.
>_>

 

[VietGeek]

You can't edit props/projectiles. <_<