Hmm.
Here's a few "buffs/tweaks" that I've put in test sets that aren't in an official set yet, but probably have a very high chance of getting in:
- no reversible KB on fsmash 1. The fsmash itself is still easier to escape then that auto-Sheik fsmash if you hit at the tip (believably escapable anyway, and Sheik is you know...a better character already). This will just insure nothing wonky will happen. More of a polish than a buff.
- Dsmash. Considering I've nerfed it from 8-13, and the original dsmash was still glitchy despite your work Shanus, I guess you can agree to this staying?
- Dair: Shanus I think we agreed a while ago that this move was vastly flawed by design and needed to be worth using offstage to offset the risk it presented. While the current form needs to be tweaked, this is the direction we all agreed on if this move were to be changed, right? Just make it stronger?
Now the other stuff:
- Physics. Well...I can't really say this is a buff if it doesn't allow him to do anything but "feel better."
Most people say he feels "better" this way, but gravity affects his recovery. Hence why I need to compensate that so it can go back to its original Brawl+ state. A physics change will only buff/nerf if it affects what kind of strategies are employed, which this one doesn't quite do that. If anything it makes certain tactics harder to do (arrow cancels) but patches up the huge contrast between normal fall and fastfall.
TL;DR: It's only a "feel" thing. It doesn't promote new tactics, but "patches up the huge contrast between normal fall and fastfall." It's not a buff but a revision. I've read the WBR archives and it was said in the old Plussery thread too, most of those physic changes were WiP. We've had a WiP physics change forever. The deadline for physics never existed to my knowledge. Maybe it was understood? o_o
- Boomerang start-up animation speed-up (wow what a mouthful): This doesn't change how fast the boomerang comes out, it only let's him trail it slightly sooner. I thought buffing strengths was fine to an extent. This gives him another combo option which is fine considering his 26 frames of commitment prior to the boomerang appearing. The return animation is unchanged. Boomerang has a lot of promise but in a faster space game it feels too restraining. Toon Link is a hit-and-run character. Mobility is something he needs. It was fine in vB due to its pace, but a 1.2x PURE animation speed-up doesn't seem like too much.
The boomerang *DOES NOT* go faster or come out faster for anyone who just skims this thread. <_<
- As for the dair windboxes, they're not too reliable and don't really do much. Now if the windboxes had Pit's Icarus Wing's power...=V. So this can be removed, because it's doubtful it has any utility due to its hitbox offsets.
- Fthrow/Bthrow: Seems no one cares about these although some people wanted to try making them more useful. I'm fine with removing them.
- UpB: I've never buffed this move (at least not in a test set or in a build) and it sucks. It will also suck more because of the larger SDI windows. Eh?
- Fair: I was gonna comment that I would not support this change and wouldn't try it unless enough people wanted it. Although it seems the World's Fair has ended boys.
1st Honestly, I have trouble defining what toon links weaknesses will be when this is said and done.
I think it's time you actually look
closer to some of these changes if you think they really...get rid of weaknesses. Last I checked I don't remember making Toon Link's sword longer, or letting him have hard-to-escape death combos. The fact that you're the second Link main in this thread to complain
totally makes feel like you're not exaggerating some claims out of an old grudge.
Because it seems like you know what his weaknesses are. You seem to sarcastically list them but apparently that was only done to make yourself
look more coherent.
Aside from dair nothing has been made to kill better. In fact I've made Dsmash worse from its 8-13 incarnation. And Link DOES kill better than TL now, so this "he should be a decent killer" sarcasm isn't getting through, sorry. Again, I laid out a changelist for each test .pac. Feel free to...you know, read through them. Or better yet, play them?
- Also Toon Link doesn't have a lot of high damage
guaranteed combos. None of TL's combo moves send into tumble until 10%, and early percent combos are his own true forte.
Anyone telling me he can reliably combo into things at kill percent: bull****. Please practice with someone who at least knows the match-up and edgeguard.
DIing TL's moves is really easy. Here's something I learned to do: pre-DI. Toon Link is not a very deep character. He's gonna switch to the offensive come kill time (assuming he's not chalk full of "Fun Speed Activate!" and rushing at you idiotically to begin with). All his kill moves that aren't Usmash/Uair are horizontal, just hold up. Options isn't his forte, he's relatively bread and butter to the very end, for almost every situation. Is he in facing backwards? Always bair. Always. forward? Nair or he's gonna run away or pivot back...to face backwards. lol
2nd Since when was it decided being "okay/average" needed buffs. I thought buffs were reserved for "bad characters" and in my opinion TL is no where near bad......
I think this is what makes me think you are DEFINITELY bias AGAINST Toon Link. Let me ask you the same thing: When was it decided that "bad characters" could only get buffs? Is Sheik bad? Is Falcon bad? Is Game & Watch bad? Is Lucario bad? And sir, I'm sure you and everyone else
knows Marth isn't bad. Guess how many "buffs" Marth has had compared to Toon Link? A good number more. I don't see you running out to the Marth thread and pretending like everyone is pushing for Marth to have no weaknesses.
Why do you complain
now, on
Toon Link of all characters? Don't you think that's very...oh I don't know, convenient of you?
. And btw, did u make the dair spike throughout the whole duration of the move? Like make the first half of frames spike harder and the other spike but a little weaker.
. And about upB...why dont we just give it a 0.0 SDI? So that it actually links >_> and a better angle and less windown after the last hit to allow for follow ups. Just an idea, Im not very fond of a moving upb...
